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blankseplocked This Is How You Remove Local - [No Srsly This Time]
 
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:17:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 17:34:41
Observe "EVE's" New "Dscan Radar System"


http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/Evescape/radarScreen-719485edited.png



What is really cool about this new feature is that the "Dscan" cycles by itself and thus there is no longer a need for spam clicking! Just like the traditional D-scan you can "narrow" the scan field (The image above just happens to be set to 5 degrees for max resolution)





Some Cool New Features:

1. The more you narrow the field, the more information that you get about the ships that surround you! The draw back to narrowing the field however is that it also cycles slower around the 300 degree sphere.


2.
5 degrees will give you ship type and name. But from a tactical standpoint 15 degrees is often good enough being that it will give you "ship class" and allow you to quickly identify whether or not said blip is a "elite cruiser" or a battleship.

3. By clicking on a blip on your new Dscan you can choose to run a "ship scan". This scan only takes a couple of seconds and will give you information like whether or not said blip is a "friendly" a "hostile" or an "Unknown"


4. The new maximum setting for the Dscan is only 180 degrees. The Cycle time for this setting is fairly quick, like "bleep-beep, bleep-beep, bleep-beep" and only identifies ships in space with no information. This is useful in terms of seeing whether or not another ship is currently warping to your location.






The Secondary Long Range Dscan

Although this feature has a long cycle time, it covers about half the size of a normal starsystem. This tool allows pilots to identify hostiles in their space collectively by turning on their own ships "transceivers" all friendly ships will appear as blue blips consistently.


In this manner only 2-3 pilots can cover an entire starsystem by using both their long range scanner and their short range scanner set to 180 degrees.


Image changed to URL. Zymurgist

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:25:00 - [2]
 

I'd love something like this to replace local.

I just don't know if CCPs servers could handle it.

Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:31:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Magnus Orin
I'd love something like this to replace local.

I just don't know if CCPs servers could handle it.


Yes, that would be awesome, if the servers can handle, then I say - go for it CCP.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:32:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 17:31:54
IMO its the same information that the Dscan and the map statistics deal with now...



All you need to do is display it in a different way graphically and that could be done client side.

Lu'Marat
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:32:00 - [5]
 

Nice!

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:36:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 17:31:54
IMO its the same information that the Dscan and the map statistics deal with now...



All you need to do is display it in a different way graphically and that could be done client side.


Ya, but awhile back, CCP changed the way the D scanner works slightly because it was causing massive loads on the server (now there is the 2 second delay). That was with only selective people using the D scanner.

With this new system, you would have a huge increase in the number of people using the D scanner (basically everyone not docked), and even if the frequency was low, it would still a ton more work for the server over all.

I'm no techno wiz, so maybe (hopefully) there is a solution. Or likewise, maybe that is not even a problem at all, I don't know.

I do think moving to a local system like this would be an excellent improvement to Eve.

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:37:00 - [7]
 

+1
Very good suggestion

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:41:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 17:43:21

I suspect it would come down to a minimalistic representation of a starsystem.


Written in Text Form (I am no programmer mind you)


Eternum Praetorian - (ship type) - (x,y,Z Axis) - (Vector + Velocity)
Insert name - (ship type) - (x,y,Z Axis) - (Vector + Velocity)
Insert name - (ship type) - (x,y,Z Axis) - (Vector + Velocity)
Insert name - (ship type) - (x,y,Z Axis) - (Vector + Velocity)
Insert name - (ship type) - (x,y,Z Axis) - (Vector + Velocity)
Insert name - (ship type) - (x,y,Z Axis) - (Vector + Velocity)
Insert name - (ship type) - (x,y,Z Axis) - (Vector + Velocity)
Insert name - (ship type) - (x,y,Z Axis) - (Vector + Velocity)
Insert name - (ship type) - (x,y,Z Axis) - (Vector + Velocity)
Insert name - (ship type) - (x,y,Z Axis) - (Vector + Velocity)


Then plot the information on a grid as only a blip with a character name and ship name. Minimalistic information written in text form like this is simple math and is very easy to deal with (no graphics or physics to calculate) and thus in theory no server load.


Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:45:00 - [9]
 

Horrible design. On the scales an EVE solar system runs on it would alternate between too much information and too little.

Additionally, it doesn't replace the necessary communication role supplied by local. Ganking people is not nearly as much fun if you don't even have the possibility of harvesting their tears where others can witness it.

CCP Zymurgist


Gallente
C C P
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:48:00 - [10]
 

Moved from General Discussion.

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:48:00 - [11]
 

It appears to be missing a dimension...


Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:50:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Horrible design. On the scales an EVE solar system runs on it would alternate between too much information and too little.

Additionally, it doesn't replace the necessary communication role supplied by local. Ganking people is not nearly as much fun if you don't even have the possibility of harvesting their tears where others can witness it.


Meh... the Jita undock would just appear to be one big blip with minimal info associated with it.


So I counter your troll post by adding a "blotch" representing a cluser of ships with little to no info associated with it.

Zagam
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:51:00 - [13]
 

Aside from pirates, I don't understand why Local is such a bad, evil thing.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:52:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Moved from General Discussion.


Well at least I know you read it Zymurgist...



CCP Cascade

Posted - 2011.08.19 17:55:00 - [15]
 

Nice constructive suggestion! Keep it coming.

I like the idea of different "modes" and that they give more information if you are investing more time. I also like the idea that you have to click on a ship to find out if it is hostile or not, that way you are able to mask your radar signature by staying close to a blob (blending into an already large scan signature).

Will it deal with cloaked ships at all?
Also, what about giving different ships different kinds of scan time?
How will it deal with moving ships?

Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:59:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: CCP Cascade
Nice constructive suggestion! Keep it coming.

I like the idea of different "modes" and that they give more information if you are investing more time. I also like the idea that you have to click on a ship to find out if it is hostile or not, that way you are able to mask your radar signature by staying close to a blob (blending into an already large scan signature).

Will it deal with cloaked ships at all?
Also, what about giving different ships different kinds of scan time?
How will it deal with moving ships?



Now that someone from CCP is here, lets not let him go until he tells us if the server would cry hard if something like this were implemented.

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:03:00 - [17]
 

I would like to see a fairly short range proximity scanner that automatically sweeps every few seconds when its open and active. General blobish information about something nasty inbound which I may already be too late to escape from. Nice for when running a complex or mining site in low sec or beyond. If you are in a fleet and on grid just share the information to avoid overloading a node. Maybe a fleet gets a bonus to the proximity scanner.

Keep the current d-scan mechanic as a more active, focusable, tool that will trigger someones proximity scanner if they have it open. They should sense a ping so they know someone is looking.

Proximity is passive, D-scan is active and creates a big signature.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:05:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 18:10:02
Originally by: CCP Cascade
Nice constructive suggestion! Keep it coming.

I like the idea of different "modes" and that they give more information if you are investing more time. I also like the idea that you have to click on a ship to find out if it is hostile or not, that way you are able to mask your radar signature by staying close to a blob. Will it deal with cloaked ships at all? Also, what about giving different ships different kinds of scan time? How will it deal with moving ships?



Well... Since you asked Laughing


I'd guess smaller ships = longer scan time (so interceptors will have a role in catching targets)



Moving ships:

Since ships only warp in one direction at a time, I figure it would simply show a blip on the screen moving in whatever vector and at whatever velocity it was moving at when the Dscan-radar hit it. And then update the info the next time the blip was swept by the scan.

(This way people who want more info about their targets will have slower scan times, where as people who want more "here and now" info will have a quicker refresh rate and less blip information)



Cloak:

IMO, cloaking ships should be identifiable in space via some other mechanic. Like a probe or an additional ship scanner that will cycle for a minute or two, and then identify a ship as an "Anomaly" in space that you cannot warp to.


Since you can't get to a cloaked ship in space with current mechanics, there is no reason to be able to probe them down. But you would be able to see if one is present in your system and have a general idea of where he is and when he is online.

Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:05:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Messoroz on 19/08/2011 18:10:53

Just because I have to defend wspace everyday now because all these nullsec improvements are quite short sighted.

I just hope something like this doesn't replace DSCAN. It must be able to dscan not only on the plane, but in the full 3 dimensions and provide you information about that. Why? It's used for hunting excessively in wspace and bears in anoms in null. Sites spawn everywhere, seeing where people are in space relative to a planet in all 3 dimensions is how people get insta combat probed(it takes a little time and practice to do).


Quote:
Cloak:

IMO, cloaking ships should be identifiable in space via some other mechanic. Like a probe or an additional ship scanner that will cycle for a minute or two, and then identify a ship as an "Anomaly" in space.


Since you can't get to a cloaked ship in space with current mechanics, there is no reason to be able to probe them down. But you would be able to see if one is present in your system and have a general idea of where he is and when he is online.

This would make wspace PVE almost completely risk free, you will now see when hostile cov ops are now in system and the bears will just run away and hide. The beautiful thing about wspace, is you and everyone accept that there may be even cloaky dreads watching you, there could be an entire fleet just cloaked on the other side. People accept this fact and run with it. this would just utterly destroy so much about it.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:07:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 18:07:12
Originally by: Messoroz
I jst hope something like this doesn't replace DSCAN. It must be able to dscan not only on the plane, but in the full 3 dimensions and provide you information about that. Why? It's used for hunting excessively in wspace and bears in anoms in null.


All you have to do is include a "Line and Disk" configuration or something, like we have in the tactical overlay ugh and then bam! 3D!


Come on people don't make me think of everything! LOL

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:09:00 - [21]
 

Here's a thought... it gives too much information.

Yeah, sorry... but keep in mind, I live in a wormhole. You add this to wormholes and you're degrading a lot of the frontier feel... it's too easy to get too much info with this.

I'm not saying it isn't a bad or creative idea, not in the least. But it would take that special "no local" feel away from wormholes and push them to being too similar to lesser systems outside the holes.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:11:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 18:11:02
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Here's a thought... it gives too much information.

Yeah, sorry... but keep in mind, I live in a wormhole. You add this to wormholes and you're degrading a lot of the frontier feel... it's too easy to get too much info with this.

I'm not saying it isn't a bad or creative idea, not in the least. But it would take that special "no local" feel away from wormholes and push them to being too similar to lesser systems outside the holes.


"Black hole is interfering with your scanner" ?
Wink


I'm on fire!!!!! LOL

CCP Cascade

Posted - 2011.08.19 18:11:00 - [23]
 

Haha! I am not a designer or a programmer, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But when it comes to server constrains it boils down to coming up with a compromise what is possible for the server to handle but still achieves the game design goals and then wrapping that in some smart programming which scales well. Sounds easy in writing but it is a lot of work.

But when it comes to design discussions such as this one, it is often counter productive to think that "this is impossible, it will never happen". Just come up with cool ideas, interesting designs and some of it might be really useful and applicable in a different solution.

I generally liked the design idea that "invest more time, get more information", this is something which the current probing system has. That in itself might be something to build ontop for the future solution. Maybe have the time it takes to scan tied to your current scan resolution, that way you favour the attacker in smaller ships vs the hauler/battleship in the belt.

Anyway, keep on spawning ideas!

Also a lot of devs read the forum, just that they don't reply to everything.

Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:11:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Messoroz on 19/08/2011 18:12:49
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Here's a thought... it gives too much information.

Yeah, sorry... but keep in mind, I live in a wormhole. You add this to wormholes and you're degrading a lot of the frontier feel... it's too easy to get too much info with this.

I'm not saying it isn't a bad or creative idea, not in the least. But it would take that special "no local" feel away from wormholes and push them to being too similar to lesser systems outside the holes.


"Black hole is interfering with your scanner" ?
Wink


I'm on fire!!!!!


Black holes only exist in like 200 or so out of 2700 wspace systems. I win :P

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:12:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 18:11:02
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Here's a thought... it gives too much information.

Yeah, sorry... but keep in mind, I live in a wormhole. You add this to wormholes and you're degrading a lot of the frontier feel... it's too easy to get too much info with this.

I'm not saying it isn't a bad or creative idea, not in the least. But it would take that special "no local" feel away from wormholes and push them to being too similar to lesser systems outside the holes.


"Black hole is interfering with your scanner" ?
Wink


I'm on fire!!!!! LOL


We have no effects in our hole.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:14:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 18:18:59

@ CCP Cascade - I do understand that, but what about what I suggested in post 8?


A minimalistic, text-like and math only "mirror" of the current game physics/graphics engine. I am sure that even jita could be plotted as dots in a sphere with very little computing power. No physics, no graphics just pure x,y,z, a ship name and a pilot name.





And as for black holes...

Maybe we add a Quasar?
A dark matter nebula?
Dark energy?


A bowl of spaghetti!! Who cares LOL such an easy fix for unknown space.

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:15:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Here's a thought... it gives too much information.

Yeah, sorry... but keep in mind, I live in a wormhole. You add this to wormholes and you're degrading a lot of the frontier feel... it's too easy to get too much info with this.

I'm not saying it isn't a bad or creative idea, not in the least. But it would take that special "no local" feel away from wormholes and push them to being too similar to lesser systems outside the holes.


I think that depends on the range of the scanner. Seeing/hearing blips as someone passes close to you is one thing. Seeing them at 5 AU is probably too much unless you are actively d-scanning for them. I don't know an appropriate range.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:16:00 - [28]
 

Tie it to sec status perhaps... the further down in sec status the system is the weaker the scanner gets. Once you get to -0.9 or -0.95 it fails completely, making the more dangerous systems actually more dangerous.

Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:24:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Tie it to sec status perhaps... the further down in sec status the system is the weaker the scanner gets. Once you get to -0.9 or -0.95 it fails completely, making the more dangerous systems actually more dangerous.


Sec status part sounds awesome, because wspace is superior to null, it is all -1.0, but factoring sec in the null will actually make it more interesting given that the -0.9 systems will be complete jew heavens with dozens of Havens and what not.

Callic Veratar
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:41:00 - [30]
 

This could be awesome if it was tied to something similar to the tactical overlay (maybe a scanning overlay?). That way, you can have the sweeps moving around your ship and approximate distance scales on it. Fiddling with the resolution and distance would allow you to change the sweep speed and detail gained.

Doing something like this wouldn't replace D-Scan and at the same time would not force another window on your screen.

There's even potential to (optionally) allow each pilot to broadcast an ID number (something in the billions, to make it "secure") that could be used to identify you on the scanner to those who you gave your number.


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