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Sidquol Alland
Posted - 2011.08.19 00:12:00 - [1]
 

Forgive my ignorance. I'm a noob who has only been playing the game a month and a half or so.

Of all the T3 cruisers, why is it that the Tengu seems to be the most favored? All I hear talk about is Tengu this, and Tengu that. They are also the most frequent of the T3 ships I see while playing. Very rarely I will see a Loki or Proteus. I have yet to come across a player flying a Legion. Granted, that's my personal experience and anecdotal.

Still though, even on forums when T3 cruisers are discussed, it seems like Tengu is the only game in town. Why is that? Is it really so much more powerful than the other T3 ships? Do the other ones need to be buffed?

Xyrdiana
Posted - 2011.08.19 00:39:00 - [2]
 

Pretty simple: Tengu is the king of cruiser PVE

why? simple: it uses Heavy missiles which most carebears used to use in their drakes and are quite easy to train. Heavy missiles with the damage and fire rate the tengu provides give it an awesome dps and the amazing shield tank it can fit makes it perfect for mission running and plexing.

it can PvP quite good as well but mostly in pairs (see 100mn afterburner tengus), with their small signatures, great dps, adabtability (there are dozends of different fits for it) and sturdy tank it can kill pretty much anything it encounters. (hint as long as it has cap that is)

granted that Lokis and Proteuses are good in pvp, they cant pve for ****, no kidding try to do missions in a proteus and you'll see yourself uninstalling eve, loki is somewhat better but still....

the legion is the worst T3 cruiser sadly, it looks awesome but for pretty much anything it can do there are speciallised ships which do it better Sad it can work but... it'll be subpar to anything else

Camden Sine
Posted - 2011.08.19 00:44:00 - [3]
 

Why does the Tengu get so much love?

3.8 volley time. 'nuff said.

[with a faction booster, like 800 DPS tank or something like that. Loki can do missions too, and the Proteus can tank them, but Tengu > them all at PVE. ]

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.19 01:34:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 19/08/2011 01:37:28
Originally by: Sidquol Alland

Still though, even on forums when T3 cruisers are discussed, it seems like Tengu is the only game in town. Why is that? Is it really so much more powerful than the other T3 ships? Do the other ones need to be buffed?


Damage projection and superior tank (active or buffer).

The Loki is, in my experience good for PvP and could use a few buffs: give the arty sub a 50m3 dronebay and 25m3 bandwidth, the AC sub 50m3 of bandwidth, give the Phoon sub 100m3 of dronebay (1 med, 2 light flights) and a slight RoF increase for both projos and missiles and have the web sub give an additional mid rather than taking one away.

grumpyguts1
Posted - 2011.08.19 01:40:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Camden Sine


[with a faction booster, like 800 DPS tank or something like that. Loki can do missions too, and the Proteus can tank them, but Tengu > them all at PVE. ]


Nothing like that. Pithum A type medium shield booster, 2 x CN invulns and some other faction fits to close the holes.. you get over 2000DPS tank with omni resists of over 85% with over 600 DPS damage with scourge fury that will do full damage at over 80km.

So nothing special Laughing

Nezumiiro Noneko
Posted - 2011.08.19 01:56:00 - [6]
 

tengu for pve is a stacked deck.

All the above with tank and such plus.....


kick ass damage projection. Pick what you like more. Its focused damaged, one missile 1 damage. Motivated to fire explosive at angels...missile for that (minny ammo split for this, or jsut lacking in others ammo). Or if lazy, jsut scourge it with the kinetic bonus. Nice bonus even for non kinetic weak rats.

Or...

no optimal or falloff games. High skill, subs....tengu puts out the same dps at 100km's as it does at 10 km's. You like kiting to offset damage (recommened if not going bling bling pimp tank)...kite as far as you can fire. Unlike lego or loki...limited by your gun/ammo combo range.


Its pve on easy mode. Not to say the others suck...its jsut added pita. room drops you at 100km;s from rats....off you go to meet them. Tengu if lazy....drop a can, orbit it and start plinking away and they come to you lol.

Camden Sine
Posted - 2011.08.19 02:13:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: grumpyguts1
Originally by: Camden Sine


[with a faction booster, like 800 DPS tank or something like that. Loki can do missions too, and the Proteus can tank them, but Tengu > them all at PVE. ]


Nothing like that. Pithum A type medium shield booster, 2 x CN invulns and some other faction fits to close the holes.. you get over 2000DPS tank with omni resists of over 85% with over 600 DPS damage with scourge fury that will do full damage at over 80km.

So nothing special Laughing


If you want to dump 2 billion into a Tengu, then you'll get what you pay for.

I'm just talking budget tengu because I'm not flithy rich like most forum goers.Embarassed

Nezumiiro Noneko
Posted - 2011.08.19 02:30:00 - [8]
 

t2 tengu works fine....


you'll want some CN BCU for the damage at some point. Also splurge for a faction AB. The RF 10mn is liked..and cheaper than the DS stuff. Speed will be a big part of your tank...more the better.

T2 tank...like I said...kite to kill frigs and cruisers while out of rat BS optimals. especially if said rats scram/web. DS/faction tank...yeah you can sit still on the pith gear lol.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.19 04:56:00 - [9]
 

For Pve,
The HML Tengu has the missile firepower of a CNR with cruise missile like range and using a small pith-b shield booster, has an active tank that puts most battleships to shame. All on a nimble cruiser.


Tasiv Deka
Amarr
The Baseborn Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.19 06:20:00 - [10]
 

All of the above and IT TOTALLY HAS A FACE atleast i see one in a couple of subsystems

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.19 06:20:00 - [11]
 

Honestly, the Tengu is really not that good. It shines for exploration work, where a battleship's lack of agility becomes a liability, but there's really nothing in high security space that another ship couldn't do better.

Personally, I blame the legions of terribad Caldari pilots clinging to their delusion that the CNR is or was ever the king of PvE, and then seeing a T3 come along and perform competitively.

Now, if you're talking about PvP, then that's an entirely different matter. The combination of afterburner bonus, small signature radius, T3 resists, and logistic support turns these ships into something as close to invulnerable as subcapitals get. For more information, see "Thundercats."

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.19 06:36:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Xyrdiana
Pretty simple: Tengu is the king of cruiser PVE and PvP ...

You missed a spot so fixed it for you.

BS size tank, BS range weaponry, Tier2BC/BS damage and Cruiser signature/speed. Nothing even comes close to the performance of the rat-muncher, least of all any of the other T3's.

Fit it with an oversized AB + acquire Loki boost = Hilarity.

In short: Expect a nerf Soon™ (read: anywhere from 18mo to never) to either subsystems or heavy missiles.

Chimera Ur
Nibado Inc
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:45:00 - [13]
 

Just curious; how does the Tengu compare to the Machariel in mission clearing speed? I'm currently training towards the Mach (Gallente pilot who's bored with his Dominix so I have a lot of shield-training to do) because it's good at what I am currently doing (missions) want to do (incursions) and also gives me a skillset I can use at PvP (flying a cane). However, I keep hearing so much good stuff about the Tengu. Too bad I can't try them beforehand :)

CyberRaver
Wildly Inappropriate
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:47:00 - [14]
 

Depends what your doing in reality, if you happen to be doign amarr missions or sansha rats then the legion is utterly amazing, also for the incursions where you can make full use of lasers

Legion pilot here btw

I was regularly soloing sanctums and other high level anoms with nothing other then a t2 fit legion, purely due to its easy of use and ability to splatter frigs at 40km with scorch with 1 shot

Mors Magne
Astral Adventure
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:05:00 - [15]
 

I prefer to use a Legion because I can carry almost infinate ammo and ninja rat in 0.0 for as long as I want to.

This is a case of "the right tool for the right job".

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2011.08.19 21:33:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: grumpyguts1
Nothing like that. Pithum A type medium shield booster, 2 x CN invulns and some other faction fits to close the holes.. you get over 2000DPS tank with omni resists of over 85% with over 600 DPS damage with scourge fury that will do full damage at over 80km.


And it only costs 3 billion isk.

Guess what - put those same modules on a Drake, and it's EVEN BETTER than the Tengu. Put them on a Nighthawk and RAWR!!!

Funk Doobiest
Posted - 2011.08.20 02:20:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Camden Sine

3.8 volley time. 'nuff said.



3.42 second volley here :) love it

Hatsumi Kobayashi
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.20 05:00:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Aamrr
The combination of afterburner bonus, small signature radius, T3 resists, and logistic support turns these ships into something as close to invulnerable as subcapitals get. For more information, see "Thundercats."


lol

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.20 05:54:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Aamrr on 20/08/2011 05:57:49
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: grumpyguts1
Nothing like that. Pithum A type medium shield booster, 2 x CN invulns and some other faction fits to close the holes.. you get over 2000DPS tank with omni resists of over 85% with over 600 DPS damage with scourge fury that will do full damage at over 80km.


And it only costs 3 billion isk.

Guess what - put those same modules on a Drake, and it's EVEN BETTER than the Tengu. Put them on a Nighthawk and RAWR!!!


The Drake or Nighthawk won't be better, no, but they'll still be ridiculously strong. This particular phenomenon has less to do with how awesome the Tengu is, and more to do with how ridiculously overpowered deadspace shield equipment is.

Try to do the same thing with an armor tanker (such as a Legion or Proteus). Sure, you can get a nice buffer tank out of them, but the 2000 DPS active tank? Not happening.

Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi
Originally by: Aamrr
The combination of afterburner bonus, small signature radius, T3 resists, and logistic support turns these ships into something as close to invulnerable as subcapitals get. For more information, see "Thundercats."


lol


What? It's a nice strategy. There are counters, like anything else, but you guys execute it well. Kudos. Very Happy

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.08.20 06:01:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Sidquol Alland
Forgive my ignorance. I'm a noob who has only been playing the game a month and a half or so.

Of all the T3 cruisers, why is it that the Tengu seems to be the most favored? All I hear talk about is Tengu this, and Tengu that. They are also the most frequent of the T3 ships I see while playing. Very rarely I will see a Loki or Proteus. I have yet to come across a player flying a Legion. Granted, that's my personal experience and anecdotal.

Still though, even on forums when T3 cruisers are discussed, it seems like Tengu is the only game in town. Why is that? Is it really so much more powerful than the other T3 ships? Do the other ones need to be buffed?



That's because deadspace shield boosters are much more overpowered than deadspace armor reps. On my tengu, I boost 203 or so shield HP every 2 seconds for only 18 cap. No armor rep come close to even half that efficiency.

Also because faction invul field >> faction EANM.

Last but not least, heavy missiles have a huge range.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.20 06:15:00 - [21]
 

You know, the weird thing is that I'm not sure whether shield boosters are overpowered or armor reps are underpowered. I'd honestly be more keen on buffing armor repairers than nerfing shield boosters.

I'd probably still leave the armor repairers slightly worse, but the the difference right now is a bit ridiculous, even if you ignore the absence of extra large armor repairers.

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.20 07:16:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Aamrr
You know, the weird thing is that I'm not sure whether shield boosters are overpowered or armor reps are underpowered. I'd honestly be more keen on buffing armor repairers than nerfing shield boosters.

I'd probably still leave the armor repairers slightly worse, but the the difference right now is a bit ridiculous, even if you ignore the absence of extra large armor repairers.


WTB XLSE and shield HP boosting implant set.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.20 07:24:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Aamrr on 20/08/2011 07:52:01
  • Armor tankers have 1600 plates, yes, but shield tankers have X-large shield boosters.

  • Shield tankers lack X-large Shield Extenders, but armor tankers lack X-large armor repairers.

  • Armor tankers have slave implants, but shield tankers have crystal implants.

  • Shield tankers lack passive omni-resist hardeners, armor tankers lack active omni-resist hardeners.

  • Armor receive remote repair augmentor rigs, but shield tankers get capacitor safeguard rigs.

  • Armor tankers get auxiliary nano pump rigs, but shield tankers get operational solidifier rigs.

  • Shield tankers have absurdly efficient and easy to fit deadspace shield boosters, armor tankers have...moderately effective deadspace armor repairers that can't hold a candle to their shield counterparts.


There was a tit for tat going on before the last bullet point. See if you can find out why it broke down.

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.20 07:50:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Aamrr
There was a tit for tat going on before the last bullet point. See if you can find out why it broke down.


CCP doesn't want active armor tanking to be as easy or efficient as shield tanking?

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.20 08:23:00 - [25]
 

Then why nerf the deadspace active tanking modules so much more heavily? T2 active armor tanking is inferior to shields already, but it's at least feasible. It's only really when you look at modules higher than T2 quality that things get ridiculous.

Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.20 09:17:00 - [26]
 

You forgot 1 point :

- Remote armor reps rep at the end of the cycle, remote shield transfers do so at the beginning.

In essence if you're using t1 reppers with no fleet boosts deactivating a remote armor rep from 1 ship and repping another might take as much as 10 seconds, while in the shield version it shouldn't take more than 5. So in essence shield ships need less buffer because they get repped earlier

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.20 09:27:00 - [27]
 

Considering that I've been arguing for a buff to high-end armor repairers and you just provided a point for why shield tanking is advantageous, I'm not exactly seeing a hole in my argument.

If you want to continue arguing my point, feel free.

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.08.20 17:15:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi
Originally by: Aamrr
The combination of afterburner bonus, small signature radius, T3 resists, and logistic support turns these ships into something as close to invulnerable as subcapitals get. For more information, see "Thundercats."


lol


Invulernable?
Someone's been huffing glue.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=423&view=losses&scl_id=40

Dunno man, that's alot of dead thundercats.

Exploited Engineer
Posted - 2011.08.20 17:21:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Jack Tronic
Invulernable?
Someone's been huffing glue.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=423&view=losses&scl_id=40

Dunno man, that's alot of dead thundercats.



It's not the fault of the ship when the problem is behind the controls.

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.08.20 17:41:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Exploited Engineer
Originally by: Jack Tronic
Invulernable?
Someone's been huffing glue.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=423&view=losses&scl_id=40

Dunno man, that's alot of dead thundercats.



It's not the fault of the ship when the problem is behind the controls.


It's really hard to sig tank or speed tank at long range agaisn't a gang of maelstroms as transversal means NOTHING at long range. At short range they will have to move in which is where the recon blob kicks in and ****s em as well.


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