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Sydney Nelson
Posted - 2011.08.18 03:21:00 - [1]
 

So this is what I want to do...
I want to build an Arazu to find solo targets in wormholes.
Sneak-up on them, tackle, damp, and then call-in my buddy in an Amarr BS to deal the DPS. I don't want to spend a ton on a ship that will inevitable be lost while I'm learning to use it. What kind of fits would work well for this? What kind of supporting skills are needed to make it work? What's the best way to fly this type of fit? Rigs?

This is the fit I came-up with:

[Arazu, Arazu Damp.]
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Domination Warp Disruptor
Domination Warp Scrambler
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I
10MN Digital Booster Rockets

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I

I didn't fit any guns because after you put the probe launcher and cloak on there, 2 guns won't really do much except eat-up cap.
The small armor repper is for repping in-between engagements.
I put the NOSs on there because they might help with cap in certain situations.
What would be a good drone load-out?
Which wormholes would be good?
Which (solo) ships should we stay away from?

Thanks in-advance for any constructive advice you have.

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.18 09:06:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Sydney Nelson
I don't want to spend a ton on a ship that will inevitable be lost while I'm learning to use it... This is the fit I came-up with:

[Arazu, Arazu Damp.]
Domination Warp Disruptor
Domination Warp Scrambler
10MN Digital Booster Rockets

Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I




Do you have any idea how much those modules cost? If that is cheap to you then Shocked

Even the phased muons could be considered luxury if you really want cheap.

You want railguns on there even if you don't think the DPS is considerable, every little helps.

Nos on a ship that ought to be 30km from it's target.

This is how I would modify your fit (keeping it ab and with a probe launcher). The only faction that I consider important on this ship is the scram, and you are right to assume you will lose them. Having the buffer is handy when sleepers are still on grid.

[Arazu, duo w rapier]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II

10MN Afterburner II
True Sansha Warp Scrambler
Low Frequency Sensor Suppressor I, Targeting Range Dampening
Low Frequency Sensor Suppressor I, Targeting Range Dampening
Low Frequency Sensor Suppressor I, Targeting Range Dampening
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 200

Expanded Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Inverted Signal Field Projector I


Hammerhead II x3
Hobgoblin II x2

although It preferable not to have the probe launcher on there. This is how I fit mine...

[Arazu, duo w rapier]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Domination Warp Scrambler
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 200

200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Hammerhead II x3
Hobgoblin II x2

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.08.18 12:37:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Pinky Denmark on 18/08/2011 12:37:06
EFT fail at it's best...

  1. Explosive resist hole

  2. Only 1 resist mod

  3. only 800mm plate (1600 or bust)

  4. Small repper? I don't think it's enough in a wormhole of a decent class

  5. Digital Booster Rockets - Hello pricecheck plz

  6. You nosferatus won't practically be in range of anything to help you

  7. Capstability?

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.18 12:49:00 - [4]
 

Quote:
The small armor repper is for repping in-between engagements.


Tell your buddy to bring armor drones, alot easier.

But my limitted WH experience tells me sleepers frown upon the usage of ewar, in other words sleepers will shoot you, you want quite some buffer for that. Then bring your buddy in a geddon with RR fitted.

Baraka Saibot
Posted - 2011.08.18 13:10:00 - [5]
 

What are you trying to do here? Orbit them at close range with that afterburner, is so... Why an arazu? As I see it the idea is to kite at long range, and damp the target so he can't lock at the range you are scrambling him from. If you go close range, you will die very quickly and there's no real use for the EWAR bonuses for scrambler range and locking range dampening.

So, something ala this:


[Arazu, New Setup 1]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Sydney Nelson
Posted - 2011.08.18 14:12:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Dub Step
Originally by: Sydney Nelson
I don't want to spend a ton on a ship that will inevitable be lost while I'm learning to use it... This is the fit I came-up with:

[Arazu, Arazu Damp.]
Domination Warp Disruptor
Domination Warp Scrambler
10MN Digital Booster Rockets

Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I




Do you have any idea how much those modules cost? If that is cheap to you then Shocked

Even the phased muons could be considered luxury if you really want cheap.

You want railguns on there even if you don't think the DPS is considerable, every little helps.

Nos on a ship that ought to be 30km from it's target.

This is how I would modify your fit (keeping it ab and with a probe launcher). The only faction that I consider important on this ship is the scram, and you are right to assume you will lose them. Having the buffer is handy when sleepers are still on grid.




Oops! Forgot to check price on those Domination units. Def can't afford those. Someone said those were "not too expensive, and totally worth it".

If the Phased aren't needed then, I can do without those too.

I thought the NOS might be useful vs frigs and cruisers w/ low targeting range.

My fit's not AB, it's MWD, although after checking the price on that, I will have to find a cheaper MWD.

I def. thought the buffer-tank was important, as sleepers will nuet you to death in lots of sites.

Sydney Nelson
Posted - 2011.08.18 14:20:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Pinky Denmark
Edited by: Pinky Denmark on 18/08/2011 12:37:06
EFT fail at it's best...

  1. Explosive resist hole

  2. Only 1 resist mod

  3. only 800mm plate (1600 or bust)

  4. Small repper? I don't think it's enough in a wormhole of a decent class

  5. Digital Booster Rockets - Hello pricecheck plz

  6. You nosferatus won't practically be in range of anything to help you

  7. Capstability?



1. That's exactly why I asked for rig suggestions. So you would recoment an anti-explosive pump?
2. Maybe another EANM instead of the small armor repper?
3. 1600 doesn't fit
4. The small repper is only for armor rep BETWEEN engagements. I 'm beggining to think you didn't actually read my post...
5. You're right about that, any suggestions for a MWD that has the same (or less) fitting requirements?
6. I thought it would help vs frigs or cruisers w/short targeting range.
7. I don't think the Cap is that bad, a couple minutes should be more than enough to take-out a solo target.

Sydney Nelson
Posted - 2011.08.18 14:22:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote:
The small armor repper is for repping in-between engagements.


Tell your buddy to bring armor drones, alot easier.

But my limitted WH experience tells me sleepers frown upon the usage of ewar, in other words sleepers will shoot you, you want quite some buffer for that. Then bring your buddy in a geddon with RR fitted.


Great idea! Thanks! I was def thinking of having him fit a RR in his spare high.

Sydney Nelson
Posted - 2011.08.18 14:33:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Baraka Saibot
What are you trying to do here? Orbit them at close range with that afterburner, is so... Why an arazu? As I see it the idea is to kite at long range, and damp the target so he can't lock at the range you are scrambling him from. If you go close range, you will die very quickly and there's no real use for the EWAR bonuses for scrambler range and locking range dampening.

So, something ala this:


[Arazu, New Setup 1]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I



10mn digital booster rockets is not an AB! It's a MWD!
(Although after some research, I realized it's too expensive to fit.)
Kiting was my plan, yes...
I like your fit! Do you think there is any way to fit a scram on there too?
According to another thread I read, you need dual points to make sure you can keep anything locked-down. Without a scram, couldn't a faster ship just MWD away and warp-out? Or MWD to inside of damp-range and ruin my day?
But seriously, That fit looks good and cheap!

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.18 16:51:00 - [10]
 

I like it, but you can improve it with a few small tweaks. The y-t8 MWD is cheaper and much more capacitor efficient, which lightens the strain on your capacitor booster. You're also being a bit inefficient with your hardeners. A T2 explosive hardener and dual trimark configuration will give you more EHP. If you want to fit guns, you can use navy 400's with a small capacitor booster.

[Arazu, Tweaked]

200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Uriel Winston
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:06:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Uriel Winston on 18/08/2011 17:08:40
ok guys some pretty important things the op should consider before actually try to do what he wants to do:

1) pretty much anything more than C2 sleepers will pop your arazu if you get aggro before your friends are out of warp.

2) any non armor tanked BC/T3/Comandship can burn towards your arazu since both trimarks and plate slow you down... a lot.

3) If you have friends bring a Rapier with you it solves problem no2, Pilgrim is acceptable too. (still have problem no1)

4) since you fly gallente you might consider a cov ops proteus? that thing ensures that your target wont warp off while survivg the sleepers even in the hardest sites. (230k ehp brick anyone? :P)

EDIT: consider a republic fleet Warp disruptor, its not cheap but will save you and grant you more time since you can point up to 60km wihout booster alt. (lets you unclock far off sleepers in order to stay alive longer)

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:25:00 - [12]
 

Regarding the speed issue -- absolutely. The above fitting is clearly designed in a support role (it has no DPS!), and assumes the presence of rapiers or similar range control.

If you're trying to maintain range on your own, there's a lot to be said for long range scramblers.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:23:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Uriel Winston
2) any non armor tanked BC/T3/Comandship can burn towards your arazu since both trimarks and plate slow you down... a lot.
…and the Arazu handles like pregnant cow even before you bolt a few kilotonnes worth of metal plating onto it, so yeah. Be sure to be quick on the "warp" button if something nasty even glances your way.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:33:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sydney Nelson
5. You're right about that, any suggestions for a MWD that has the same (or less) fitting requirements?


There isn't one. Not even close. There's a reason they've become an absolute flag for EFT warrior fits: they look incredibly attractive as far as wedging everything on, they appear alongside the meta 1-5 variants, and they are absolutely unrealistic on any real fits.

Predator989
Posted - 2011.08.18 22:15:00 - [15]
 

Your fitting is rather odd....If you are JUST for tackle you need to sit at range and damp the target out. If you want a neuting ship that probes at 14km and under use a pilgrim...It'll be cheaper to fit and have a better armor tank to boot.


In my time flying an arazu, I NEVER go under 15km and just wait for damage to come and fight, but I also use 3x damp and purely speedtank with an LSE as buffer.



Sydney Nelson
Posted - 2011.08.19 13:52:00 - [16]
 

I'm really leaning towards fitting 2 points (scram and disruptor) like I read about.

I seems like range control will be a little tricky with this guy.

Wouldn't having a scram on there be really smart because you can shut down the MWD on anyone trying to get close?

Maybe I don't really NEED a disruptor too, but seems like you would have to have one to keep something with a long targeting range from locking you, while keeping them pointed at the same time.

Which leaves me with the problem of mids... Go without a cap-booster, or go without a 3rd damp.

Do you think there is enough cap (without a booster) to get the job done? (My amazing 2 med. autocannon/railgun DPS + my drones + the DPS from my buddy in an BS.)

I don't think giving-up the 3rd damp is an option. Anyone will a decent targeting range would just eat me alive right?

Big Penos Burdette
Posted - 2011.08.19 14:21:00 - [17]
 

you want the scram, you shouldn't need the disruptor. You are simply trying to squeeze too much onto a single ship and therefore it isn't coming over ideally.

The last one dub step posted with the scram and mar, appropriately titles, works perfectly alongside a rapier since you can both web and scram a target down from range.

The arazu should pin the target down long enough to get your dps ship in there and then it is up to the whim of the sleepers to decide if you need to get it out to safety or can remain on grid. regardless, if you take aggro you can warp out and back in again at range to continue to provide ewar.


Sydney Nelson
Posted - 2011.08.19 22:52:00 - [18]
 

That is so DAMN frustrating! I just spent 10 min typing-up a reply and something, somewhere, timed-out, or something, and I have to start all-over! GRRRRR!!

Anyway, rant-off

Unfortunately my buddy doesn't have the skills to fly a recon. Otherwise I would make him tackle while I drop-in in my Hyperion and have all the WEEEEEE!!!! Pew Pew Pew!!! DPS Bang Bang fun!

So what I have figured-out so-far:

Def fit a Scram and MWD (splurge on the scram if anywhere).

NOS isn't compatible (I'm not a complete idiot, I swear, I just thought it might be useful vs frigs that get-in close).

Def fit a decent buffer (mostly for the sleepers, LSE would be nice as it would keep weight down, but I don't think I can give-up the mid-slot).


Some questions I still have:

Should I rig for tank (resists/armor) or for EWAR?

I'm leaning towards a passive tank because I'm skeered the sleepers will nuet me down to nothing. Thoughts?

On that note, do I NEED the cap-injector (for nuet defence and just for stamina)?

Thanks for all the helpful replies so far!

Sydney Nelson
Posted - 2011.08.26 16:58:00 - [19]
 

Ok here's an updated fitting.
It's pretty damn slow, but has some tank to deal with sleeper (or oopsie) dammage.

I put a small cap-booster on there cause a medium just doesn't quite fit.

After doing some fancy calculator work, I realized the Warp Disruptor was kinda pointless. The Scram II works out-to 16km and I can damp anything with less than a 100km base targeting range down to 14km and less. Or did I screw-up and not apply stacking penalties?? Hmmm...

Anyways, here is the new fit:

[Arazu, Arazu Damp.]

1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Warp Scrambler II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
Dual 150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
Dual 150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Warrior II x8

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.26 21:51:00 - [20]
 

You're really heavy into stacking penalties there, and that anti-explosive pump is getting gobbled up in the penalty chain. Consider swapping it for a trimark and fitting an armor explosive hardener instead. You'll be better off (especially if you have gang link support).

You'll get 38.2k EHP out of it vs. 36.5k, with a more even resist profile and the ability to overheat. This is a good thing.

Sydney Nelson
Posted - 2011.08.29 15:23:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Sydney Nelson on 29/08/2011 15:24:54
Originally by: Aamrr
You're really heavy into stacking penalties there, and that anti-explosive pump is getting gobbled up in the penalty chain. Consider swapping it for a trimark and fitting an armor explosive hardener instead. You'll be better off (especially if you have gang link support).

You'll get 38.2k EHP out of it vs. 36.5k, with a more even resist profile and the ability to overheat. This is a good thing.


Ok Thanks!
Good ideas for sure, I didn't know the explosive rig stacked with the EANMs! I'll switch that around.

I was thinking about puting a speed rig in there instead of a second trimark.

Someone mentioned that a fast ship could get in-close (or get-away) because of my low speed. With my skill and the MWD running, I was at like 905m/s. Are there many ships that are faster than that with AB?

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.29 19:48:00 - [22]
 

Quite a few. Also keep in mind that speed rigs reduce your armor hit points, so they're like an anti-trimark. You're quite literally shooting yourself in the foot with them.

You're thinking, though, so that's good. Very Happy

Sydney Nelson
Posted - 2011.08.29 20:47:00 - [23]
 

Yeah.... I probably shouldn't brainstorm out-loud.

Oh, well. I don't know much about PVP, but I'm not afraid to admit it.

The rigs are +15% -10% right, so even if you did do that, you would still gain 5% on each right?

I know it's probably better not to mix though. Speed-tank OR armor-tank not both.

I know I want to fit a buffer for safety, but I would still like enough speed to be effective VS fast ships. Any suggestions?

I was thinking, just avoid engaging fast ships.
The only things I can think of that would be faster than a MWD-fit Arazu are AB fit interceptors right?
I probably wont find too many fast frigs running sleeper-sites right?

Ineka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:14:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Sydney Nelson
Yeah.... I probably shouldn't brainstorm out-loud.

Oh, well. I don't know much about PVP, but I'm not afraid to admit it.

The rigs are +15% -10% right, so even if you did do that, you would still gain 5% on each right?

I know it's probably better not to mix though. Speed-tank OR armor-tank not both.

I know I want to fit a buffer for safety, but I would still like enough speed to be effective VS fast ships. Any suggestions?

I was thinking, just avoid engaging fast ships.
The only things I can think of that would be faster than a MWD-fit Arazu are AB fit interceptors right?
I probably wont find too many fast frigs running sleeper-sites right?


Fast ships (faster than yours) will be difficult for you to avoid contact but hey, that's what your buddy is there for right?

Just for info a 75+km targeting bs will not be able to target a **** over 15km -/+ with 3 damps, then try with your friend on several models to have a good idea of what use in "x" situation.

Also: you're aloud to use ecm drones heh Wink

If you really want a " perfect neutraliser" machine then you need the falcon.


 

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