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Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:50:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Salpad on 17/08/2011 14:51:56
Hi

I fly level 4 missions in my active tanked Nighthawk with just about perfect skillz across the board, and fitted 4 x Caldari Navy BCS, and Caldari Navy faction launchers, firing Caldari Navy heavy missiles. Rigs are 2x Capacitor Control Circuit II.

I'm very happy with my tank, but gank seems a bit inadequate, yet I'm not sure what more that can be done. I've already fitted 4 faction BCS, and that 4th one doesn't help much due to the stacking penalty. And faction launchers.

I pwn frigate-sized rats almost instantly and cruiser-sized rats in 2-6 volleys (5-6 are for elite battlecruiser I'm sure). The problem i the battlehip-sized rats.

Is the Nighthawk destinied to be a low-gank mission flyer?

edit: typos, and clarified that I use 2xT2 rigs.

BearJews
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:58:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: BearJews on 17/08/2011 15:06:11
Edited by: BearJews on 17/08/2011 15:05:06
Get a tengu? lol. From my understanding nighthawk shines in lvl 5 missions with a passive tank. For outright dps with hml, hams, the tengu really shines. for a MASSIVE passive tank, the NH shines. Maybe add a bay loading accelerator and a smaller less cap dependent shield booster to up your dps while still being able to tank missions??? Maybe put on t2 hmls and use fury ammo for the big guys? Not sure

Jiao Governator
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:05:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Jiao Governator on 17/08/2011 15:06:23
None of the Caldari HML boats are going to be spectacular against BS rats, it's the nature of the cruiser/battlecruiser hulls.

However, the first thing you need to do is replace your faction Launchers with HML II. Especially in a NH, where your drones can take care of frigates and non-elite cruisers with ease, Scourge Fury missiles will significantly increase your damage against BS. That will increase your DPS by about 25% against BS over T1 missiles (and about 15% over more expensive faction missiles).

Other options include changing your rigs to a T2 Bay Loading Accelerator and T1 Rigor (probably about 10% dps increase).

Finally, your best option is to move to a Tengu (with HML II). It's easy to train for, has about 20% more dps, is a lot faster and has a better tank (especially given its speed and sig), and is more versatile. Edit: Also, since all of its damage is from missiles, the applied dps on BS is that much higher.

If that's not enough for you, there are other options (CNR/Nightmare/Mach/Marauders).

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:16:00 - [4]
 

Switching to T2 launchers and using fury would help. Swapping a rig for a BLA II would help. Never forget implants; I have a ZMM1000 in my NH clone and I'd consider a ZMH2000 if I flew it a bit more.

All told, it adds up to (with my skills and the ZMH2000 that I haven't bothered with) 651 before drones and 758 if you include them. A Tengu in a similar configuration with the same implants will push out 784, 100% from missiles. So yes, the Tengu will always be a bit gankier, but a NH will apply much more damage to smaller targets (especially if you use a BLA II on the Tengu).

Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:37:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Tore Smith on 17/08/2011 15:38:13
--> what the others said: t2 burst rig plus rigor is what i used to use. it wont get better than this.

plus: BS are also killed a bit slower because of defenders. orbit them close, so your missles wont be shot.

plusplus: BS-heavy missions are generally better done in a Vindi or Kronos (assuming kin weak rats). Their DMG-output and yes also projection with regular ammo is higher than that of a gank tengu with t2 scourge and you dont have to worry about defenders. Also they deliver insta-damage which is a big bonus in my book, because i would hate to count salvos... i used to love smaller ships for missions, but use them now only for blitzing.

cheers!

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:19:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: BearJews
Edited by: BearJews on 17/08/2011 15:06:11
Edited by: BearJews on 17/08/2011 15:05:06
Get a tengu? lol. From my understanding nighthawk shines in lvl 5 missions with a passive tank. For outright dps with hml, hams, the tengu really shines. for a MASSIVE passive tank, the NH shines. Maybe add a bay loading accelerator and a smaller less cap dependent shield booster to up your dps while still being able to tank missions??? Maybe put on t2 hmls and use fury ammo for the big guys? Not sure


I am using a small and very cap-efficient high-meta shield booster. I'm plenty cap stable and could easily replace the cap rigs with somehing else. I'm just not sure what.

I already have 4 high-meta gank modules in LOW slot, and the last of those is heavily affected by stacking penalty, so if I fit a gank rig the last of my CN BCS will look even more riduculous than it already is.

I do have HML damage hardwirings. It's only 3% ones (damage and range and stuff), but switching to 5% shouldn't improve my gank all that much.

As for T2 Furry missiles, I really dislike the signature radius bloat. I switched from passive to active tank to slim down my signature radius, so using furries is a step backwards.

In the longer run I will train for a Tengu, and fly a fast, sleek, sexy, AB-fitted speed tanker with low sig (and hopefully more gank than the NH). I'm just puzzled and annoyed that the NH can't be made to perform better.

Modules and rigs can only do so much, so the problem must be with its native gank.

Should I just sell it, and spend a couple of months earning ISK in some other ways, while I train everything Tengu to level 5?

I like the idea of a Command Ship a lot, one that can both tank and gank and fleet buff, and I have the Command Ships skill trained to 5, but I'm not a gŁns kind of person at all, and there are no significant (combat) fleet ops in the near future.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:32:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Salpad
I already have 4 high-meta gank modules in LOW slot, and the last of those is heavily affected by stacking penalty, so if I fit a gank rig the last of my CN BCS will look even more riduculous than it already is.


Remember that BCUs affect both damage and RoF while the BLA only affects RoF. So the stacking penalty isn't quite as bad as all that.

Originally by: Salpad
As for T2 Furry missiles, I really dislike the signature radius bloat. I switched from passive to active tank to slim down my signature radius, so using furries is a step backwards.


So only use them on BSs. At least you have the option to load Fury and increase damage (and sig) whereas in a passive setup your sig is always blown up and with CN launchers you don't get choices.

Originally by: Salpad
In the longer run I will train for a Tengu, and fly a fast, sleek, sexy, AB-fitted speed tanker with low sig (and hopefully more gank than the NH). I'm just puzzled and annoyed that the NH can't be made to perform better.


Wait. You don't have an AB on the NH? That is something you should do sooner than later. While the sig isn't as small as a Tengu, and the speed isn't as high, an AB will still mitigate huge amounts of incoming damage.

Originally by: Salpad
Should I just sell it, and spend a couple of months earning ISK in some other ways, while I train everything Tengu to level 5?


That or keep it while training. No one is forcing you to sell before you can fly an optimized Tengu. Then strip the NH fittings and transfer them over; easy as pie. Or just keep on training what you were going for before; a Tengu isn't so huge an upgrade that you'd want to go straight for it if you have other priorities.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.17 19:02:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: stoicfaux on 17/08/2011 19:08:08

T2 Launchers with Fury ammo

Group your launchers to reduce losses to NPC defenders.

Signal Amplifier II in 5th low slot.
* The sooner you can lock target, the sooner you apply DPS.

AB10
* Helps with tank, and, in theory, lets you get close enough to enemy battleships that their defenders don't have enough time to hit your missiles.

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
* You already hit small targets well enough, so use the BLA II to increase your RoF.

Hobgoblin II x5

ZMH2000 +5% heavy missile damage
ZMM1000 +5% rate of fire (or use Whelan Machorin's Ballistic Smartlink which only requires Cybernetics IV.)

Including drone DPS, that puts you at 760 DPS versus
the Tengu's 784 DPS.


Jak Silverheart
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.18 13:17:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Edited by: stoicfaux on 17/08/2011 19:08:08

T2 Launchers with Fury ammo

Group your launchers to reduce losses to NPC defenders.

Signal Amplifier II in 5th low slot.
* The sooner you can lock target, the sooner you apply DPS.

AB10
* Helps with tank, and, in theory, lets you get close enough to enemy battleships that their defenders don't have enough time to hit your missiles.

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
* You already hit small targets well enough, so use the BLA II to increase your RoF.

Hobgoblin II x5

ZMH2000 +5% heavy missile damage
ZMM1000 +5% rate of fire (or use Whelan Machorin's Ballistic Smartlink which only requires Cybernetics IV.)

Including drone DPS, that puts you at 760 DPS versus
the Tengu's 784 DPS.




I fly a nighthawk with max missile skills, and just about max everything else. Just had to emphasize what he said. The only thing I really disagree with is the signal amplifier as keeping up with targets is quite easy with the number of max locks your allowed in the nighthawk.

The only thing is the damage rigs may not allow you to keep cap stable with an active setup, but you can always throttle your shield booster, or use a cap booster or some other creative thinking.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.18 14:05:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jak Silverheart
The only thing I really disagree with is the signal amplifier as keeping up with targets is quite easy with the number of max locks your allowed in the nighthawk.


The signal amplifier is optional. It's mostly there to let you target things further away, however I had forgotten that the HML's max range pretty much matches the NH's sensor range already. You can use the 97.5km range the sig amp provides to waste a salvo to draw aggro that much sooner (and make the NPCs come to you.)



 

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