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Randren
Posted - 2011.08.16 23:21:00 - [1]
 

I'm getting close to level 4 missions and I fly minmatar ships. So far I've been armor tanking everything, but when I ask what a good minmatar mission BS is I am told to get a maelstrom.

The problem is that the maelstrom is shield tanked and all my skills so far are for armor tanking. Can you armor tank that or should I use one of the other BS instead? If so which one is good for armor tanking in a mission?

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.08.17 00:16:00 - [2]
 

Maelstrom is SO gimped with an armor tank compared to the other Matari BSs. You have fewer low slots and no inherent raw damage bonus. Can it be done? Yes, because you have tons of fitting space and decent capacitor. Should it be done? No, IMO.

If you don't want to train shield skills, get a Republic Fleet Issue ship instead.

Randren
Posted - 2011.08.17 00:29:00 - [3]
 

I'm not against training for shields it's just that atm I basically have no shield tanking skills so it would be a long time before they were at the point they would be viable for a battleship.

As for the fleet issue ships I could prolly buy and fit one, but I'd be basically broke so the who "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" thing would be against that.

Is the tempest an armor tank, and is the base version any good for missions? I could do the typhoon but my missile supports are fairly low, I have some basic missiles since a bunch of minmater ships use em but I havn't put too much into the support skills for it yet.

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.08.17 00:38:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Randren
I'm not against training for shields it's just that atm I basically have no shield tanking skills so it would be a long time before they were at the point they would be viable for a battleship.

As for the fleet issue ships I could prolly buy and fit one, but I'd be basically broke so the who "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" thing would be against that.

Is the tempest an armor tank, and is the base version any good for missions? I could do the typhoon but my missile supports are fairly low, I have some basic missiles since a bunch of minmater ships use em but I havn't put too much into the support skills for it yet.

Minmatar battleships are extremely skill-intensive even when compared to other BS-class vessels. Both the Typhoon and Tempest are going to give you a lot of trouble without both very high gun and missile skills. Maelstrom is a pure gunboat, ergo one weapon skillset is required for proficiency. It might be better use of your time to just start training shield skills rather than try to use either the Phoon or Tempest with multiple skillsets at subpar levels.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2011.08.17 00:42:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Zhilia Mann on 17/08/2011 00:46:01
Phoon is out if you don't have missile (and drone tbh) supports up to par. It really is an sp-intensive ship.

Tempest can be armor tanked for missions, but it will never compete with a Mael. You might try something like this:

[Tempest, armor mishins]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

100MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Assault Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Light Missile

Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Projectile Ambit Extension I


Hobgoblin II x5
Valkyrie II x5

Tank is weak but oh well. It will likely get the job done. Last two highs are for point defense but you could easily repurpose them to no detriment.

One thing to keep in mind on the 'pest is that its damage is highly dependent on the Minmatar BS skill (double damage bonus = tasty but also = gimped damage if you don't train up).

If you wanted to kite instead, this could work (though I'd swap out rigs for a bit more speed/agility):

[Tempest, armor mishins arties]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

100MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Ancillary Current Router I


Hobgoblin II x5
Valkyrie II x5

Tight fit; much easier if you downgrade to scouts from T2 arties.

Edit: and yes, your long-term answer will be to train shield skills. That Machariel everyone was suggesting in your other thread will thank you in the long run, and the Mael will make life easier even sooner.

Buzz Cutter
Posted - 2011.08.17 00:49:00 - [6]
 

The tempest is a gun baot all the way, it is what is bounses are for.

This is a basic fit until you can fly a maelstrom, the tank is a bit low but the idea is to run the ab out to a safe kiting distance and pound from there.

The hardners showen are for serpentis (kin/ther) and it tanks 372dps and is cap stable with out the ab running.

This should work but really a low skilled maelstrom would prolly still do better


[Tempest, New Setup 1]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets

1400mm Prototype I Siege Cannon, Phased Plasma L
1400mm Prototype I Siege Cannon, Phased Plasma L
1400mm Prototype I Siege Cannon, Phased Plasma L
1400mm Prototype I Siege Cannon, Phased Plasma L
1400mm Prototype I Siege Cannon, Phased Plasma L
1400mm Prototype I Siege Cannon, Phased Plasma L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Ancillary Current Router I


Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.08.17 00:50:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 17/08/2011 00:51:33
And just a final note about the Maelstrom: since I've switched to the Maelstrom from the Apoc and Abaddon I haven't looked back. Unless someone gave me a Vargur for free there's no other ship I'd want to use in missions besides the Maelstrom. Once you do boost up all the relevant skills to uber levels the Maelstrom will just knock over missions one after the other. It's training up those skills that turns into a aching chore. You're looking at months of time and millions of SPs when it's all said and done.

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.08.17 01:40:00 - [8]
 

This is kind of rough situation.

You could try for Fleet Tempest. The local price for me is 78 mil for regular tempest, 540 mil for fleet tempest.

I think it would be cheaper to train the shield skills and then use mael.

Randren
Posted - 2011.08.17 02:12:00 - [9]
 

Thanks for all the replies. I think what I might do is stick with 3s for now while I get some supports and the BS skill up then try with a tempest while I train up for shield skill.

I wanna get into the big ships and such but know that unskilled they'll just blow up around me :P so I think patience is gonna win out on this one and I'll just wait a bit to get my skills up to par.

Another thread I made mentioned trying for a HAC since I have most of the skills for cruiser sizes fleshed out so i might look into training that up a bit, but I'd have to toss everything into Evemon and see what all the times would be for that.

Again, thanks for the help :)

Sjugar
Posted - 2011.08.17 02:54:00 - [10]
 

Spend the two weeks it takes to get sufficient shield skills, you won't regret it.

Whatever you do though, never get Tactical Shield Manipulation V, IV to use an invul II is enough.

Ynot Eyob
Minmatar
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front
Posted - 2011.08.19 07:54:00 - [11]
 

You can easily use a Typhoon with armor, not the best, but can deffently do lvl 4s and with the ammount of low slots you can add both DPS and tank. Use cruise missiles and 800mm ACs.


Zagam
Posted - 2011.08.19 13:21:00 - [12]
 

When I help others out on L4s, I use a Mael fit with 800mm AC, and shield tanked.

Once I get my Tengu, I'm going to swap the Mael over to Arty, with a slightly stronger tank.

Both have to be shield fit, and from what I've seen with Mael, both fits will tear through most NPCs in short order.

It also doesn't hurt that the Mael is the best-looking BS the Minnie have. (I'm not counting the Mach, since that is technically an Angel Cartel ship)

Flakey Foont
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:59:00 - [13]
 

Learn shield skills....

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:35:00 - [14]
 

Shield skills take about two weeks to get a workable level. Train those, fly Mael, be happy.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.19 22:39:00 - [15]
 

Phoon works great with an armor tank. You need pretty good drone skills though as well as missiles and guns.

iKill Giants
Eternal Phoenix Rises
Posted - 2011.08.20 02:31:00 - [16]
 

I'm not sure why everyone always says Maelstrom. True, it has excellent shield tank and good dps, but I preferred the Typhoon for missioning. Cruises aren't very hard to train for when you're only using them in a mission scenario, and it can work with 800mm's just as well. It's true that you need drone skills, but overall that just sweetens the deal for me. It's like some sort of hybrid of a Dominix and Tempest and Raven. And that's awesome.

Here's a fit, the numbers and hardeners are for cartel, which is your worst-case mission scenario with an armor tank.

[Typhoon, Armor - Autocannons]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
100MN Afterburner II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Garde II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

With the Garde's out, that's 808 DPS out to 27 km, 423 DPS out to 45 km, and 123 DPS 75 km (farther really, but locking range prohibits). This will work with one hardener missing for a tracking enhancer, which brings up your range to 31 km with the autocannons but hurts your tank a bit. Speaking of the tank, it tanks 408 DPS cartel, 750 Sansha/Blood Raiders when spec fitted. Big difference, but you should be able to manage.

Now, if you swap those guns for missiles and those missiles for guns (seriously, 3x large autocannons as an auxiliary weapons system works just fine) you get 758 DPS out to 27km, 600 to 45km, and 300 to 75km. I find that better. Oh, don't forget to swap for BCUs as well. Tank is the same.


ThrashPower
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.20 03:00:00 - [17]
 

the phoon will only do that damage at 0km, the ac's lose over 200dps if the target is 27km from you while you are shooting emp. not to mention cruise missiles wont hit for full damage without at least some rigor rigs. So you will be afterburning around leaving your sentries behind to apply maximum damage.
split weapon systems are bad as long as there are different types of damage modules for different weapon systems.
and armor tanking autocannon ships are also pretty bad because ac's get so much out of tracking enhancers, that you want at least 5 lows for damage mods alone (at least on a pve ship).

JackStraw56
Bayesian Motion
Knights of Tomorrow
Posted - 2011.08.20 08:47:00 - [18]
 

Unless you have good missile and drone skills, avoid the typhoon (really I would still avoid it for PVE even with those skills). The tempest can sport a bit of an armor tank, although you would really want the fleet tempest to get that extra low slot.

Your best option is to train shield skills and fly the Mael IMO. I started in Minmatar with mostly armor tanking (armor cane in level 3s) and am very happy that I decided to train for the Mael after that. For Minmatar it's very nice to be able to do an armor or shield tank, and it will make it easier to cross train later too.


 

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