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Sindeya Shimaya
Posted - 2011.08.16 23:13:00 - [1]

tl;dr What's the Legion really good for?


Being a new player, and not having flown one yet, I was originally afraid that my choice to go into Amarr ships was a bad idea.

At first I thought Amarr makes me heavy, slow, no automagic repair (like shield passive regen), cap problems, no real damage type selection, and requiring T2 pulses to be effective. But I figured it wouldn't be so bad - after all some of the Amarr hulls are the best looking in the game.

So far it's all good. I greatly enjoy flying the Arbitrator and the Harbinger. And I'm really looking forward to be flying all the advanced frigates and cruisers that Amarr has to offer. (Even battleships, but those are for Incursions (i.e. isk making) only). Since I really like the concept of T3 cruisers, I checked how useful the Legion is, in terms of PvPing, Wormholes, Level 4/5, etc.

And so far, everyone seems to have the same opinion basically:
"Want a PvP HAM Legion? Get a Sacrilege. As effective and a lot cheaper"
"Want a PvP Pulse Legion? Get a Zealot. As effective and a lot cheaper"
"Want a PvP Neuting Legion? Get a Curse. A lot more effective - and a lot cheaper"
"Want a PvE Legion for L4s? Get a Nightmare. A whole lot more effective - and.. well yeah more effective"
"Want an active tank? Waaiiit. Where is my cap?!"

Now I don't want to ***** about the Legion, considering it seems like Amarr simply has a lot of very good advanced cruisers to make up for it - and that's fine. But since I have a lot of isk already, and don't mind spending a lot of money for something that can be used in many ways, I'd like to know how useful the Legion really is. Can I use it comfortably (and effectively) for PvP, Wormholes, Incursions, Missions and some more PvP? (And I'm not debating the cost/effectivity ratio)

Adeena Torcfist
Dark Underground Forces
Posted - 2011.08.16 23:25:00 - [2]

i use legion alll the time, & in my opinion, its one of the best T3's .

now yea, other can ships excel better than the legion in their respective areas. What they cant do, is everything all at once like the legion can.

i use mine for Wormhole PvP, & tbh, its freakin awesome. Fitted with a neut, its deadly. perma tanking omni resist, tackling & neuuting, it will make easy work of active tanked Tengus, Buffer tanked proteus' ( tho, that may take a while ) but hey if their hardners shut off, they can not only keep u tackled with zero cap, they cant tank either.

Seems an all right winner to me. It just needs a little buff here n there, Neut range being one of them.

Sin Meng
Creative Assembly
Posted - 2011.08.17 00:13:00 - [3]

Pulse Legion is fantastic for blitzing vanguard incursion sites, quite viable in large sites including mothership battles. Same goes for armor wormhole combat sites. Other than that, I personally don't see the point due to aforementioned cost vs effectiveness issues compared to other hulls. HAM subsystem really needs a 25mb drone bay.

The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.17 01:30:00 - [4]

1) Looks
2) ..Looks
4) Lasers
5) Exploration
6) Lots more I don't have time to list

Syn Fatelyng
Posted - 2011.08.17 08:16:00 - [5]

Originally by: Sindeya Shimaya
And so far, everyone seems to have the same opinion basically:
"Want a PvP HAM Legion? Get a Sacrilege. As effective and a lot cheaper"
"Want a PvP Pulse Legion? Get a Zealot. As effective and a lot cheaper"
"Want a PvP Neuting Legion? Get a Curse. A lot more effective - and a lot cheaper"
"Want a PvE Legion for L4s? Get a Nightmare. A whole lot more effective - and.. well yeah more effective"
"Want an active tank? Waaiiit. Where is my cap?!"
This isn't limited to the Legion, and the reason why is simple:

The time it takes to train up for a Tech III cruiser, along with subsystems to IV minimum, is a fraction of the time needed to train up for a Sac, a Zealot, a Curse, a Nightmare, and all other role-specific ships. The beauty in T3 is not for outperforming role-specific ships, but granting you skill flexibility to achieve a wider range of possible roles far faster than you would be able to if training for the role-specific ships. Or, for a better wording:

So if you already have all the t2 ship skills, you aren't going to notice much of a difference. But if you are a new character, you cant do better than to train up the best generalist ship, then focus on the specialist ships later.

Posted - 2011.08.17 08:24:00 - [6]

Originally by: Sindeya Shimaya

And so far, everyone seems to have the same opinion basically:
"Want a PvP HAM Legion? Get a Sacrilege. As effective and a lot cheaper"

I don't know anyone that has that opinion. The Sac fits a niche active tank PvP role and is easily out classed by many other ships. The 100mn AB brick HAM Legion is on the other hand, a mean machine. Capable of high EHP and DPS. Some even fly it with a single repper to great success.

Originally by: Sindeya Shimaya

"Want a PvP Pulse Legion? Get a Zealot. As effective and a lot cheaper"

The only PvP pulse Zealots that are flown regularly are the armor HAC variant, in which case the Legion does perform significantly better. Is it justifiable for the price? Depends on the alliance and the fleet.

Originally by: Sindeya Shimaya

"Want a PvP Neuting Legion? Get a Curse. A lot more effective - and a lot cheaper"

Here I agree with you because there really aren't any viable neut Legion fits as far as I know.

Originally by: Sindeya Shimaya

"Want a PvE Legion for L4s? Get a Nightmare. A whole lot more effective - and.. well yeah more effective"

PvE Legion might not be great for L4s but it is certainly a great WH and Incursion ship, doing both quite respectably for it's tanking type (armor). I actually prefer it to a Tengu for C3s purely for the fact that I don't need ammo and it's not much difference tbh.

Originally by: Sindeya Shimaya

"Want an active tank? Waaiiit. Where is my cap?!"

This is completely out of context, I have no problem with my cap stable active tank WH Legion that easily does all C3 sites. And since most PvP HAM Legions don't need cap due to HAMs, and usually rely more on buffer, I don't see where this comment would come up considering most fits use cap boosters anyway.

Ghost Nightmare
Posted - 2011.08.17 09:09:00 - [7]

T3 Gang booster is the best way to use a legion.

Sader Rykane
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.08.17 09:21:00 - [8]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The Legion is in fact the only T3 that actually fell into line with CCP's original purpose for T3's.

T3's were never meant to REPLACE tech 2 ships; they were just supposed to provide a slightly better alternative at much greater cost.

The Legion is actually where its supposed to be, while most of the other T3's are severely overpowered.

However, CCP has a tendency to be too afraid to change anything even when its pretty clear they ****ed up.

But thats just my opinion on the matter.

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.17 09:55:00 - [9]

Legion makes an awesome PvE boat.

For PvP you are more or less limited to being a laser brick in a swarm or gang-booster.

Kind of 'meh' all-round if you ask me. Would much rather have 5+ T2 cruisers than one Legion.

Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.08.17 10:51:00 - [10]

Both the pulse laser legion and neuting legion (half a bhaalgorn) are very good pvp ships, but don't expect cost-effectiveness. If you need a good tank with high resists and still want to do something, T3's can't be beat. If you usually fly in scrub fleets without proper logistic support then don't bother. You might as well fly battlecruisers then.
Personally I am reluctant to fly them for the potential skillpoint loss, but they are very sweet.

Rebbecca Black
Posted - 2011.08.17 12:18:00 - [11]

The problem with the legion isn't really a problem at all. As Amarr we have some amazing t2 hulls. If you want to run in an AHAC gang for pvp zealot is extremely cost effective and will push out almost as much dps as its t3 cousin. For pvp with HAMS the Sacrilege is arguably almost as good, and the cap recharge bonus can make for some really interesting setups. However that doesn't mean the Legion is sub par, it just means we have really good hac/recons. As far as the lvl 4's go it is really difficult to beat a nightmare or paladin if you're going after sansha rats, but you will find that it gets boring after a while. The legion on the other hand can do l4's almost as well with an AB setup and it's a completely different tanking style, so its fun to mix up your play style from time to time. Also as far as null sec is concerned, there are some places a BS just isn't optimal. Belt ratting multiple systems in a constellation works better in a legion than a Nightmare. so..

Belt Ratting
Speed Tanking PVE
Super AHAC (zealot with 117k ehp)
Lowsec exploration

As far as the active tanking comment.. Cap isn't really an issue.

Midas Tycho
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:29:00 - [12]

Spinning in a station... o wait :(

Zakua Corbin
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:09:00 - [13]

I fly my legions for all tasks I come up against. I live in a WH so I run C3 sleepers with the T2 pulse and omni tank, used to run my lvl4s in K-space with it. I can hop into the covop legion for scouting and being slippery in general or grab the neut master and be mean to hapless wanderers who probe our hole out.

The legion does pretty damned good, last time I lost one I was jumped by a tengu, loki, broadsword and two drakes, took em about 6 or 7 minutes to finaly chew me up (ecm'd the hell out of me to, good times).

T.I.E. Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.17 19:26:00 - [14]

War, Absolutely nothing

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.08.17 19:42:00 - [15]

The legion isn't a bad ship, I've had a few in the past for both pve and pvp (never lost them, just ended up selling them). There are effectively 4 roles for them them:

1) gangboosting
2) solo WH runner (active tank)
3) fleet pve (passive tank)
4) PvP (buffer, scan res subsystem, pulses only)

It's the only viable option for off grid armor boosting so role 1 is very solid. It's inferior to the tengu in role 2 but is still very good, I'd say it's the second best ship in the game for class 3's and below. In role 3 it's just another gunboat, nothing special but not bad either. It's an upgraded zealot basically, good for incursions and null sec exploration with logi support. Setup 4 is by no means spectacular, it has high scan res and a hefty tank but only BC level DPS. It is superior to a harb or abso in pretty much every way but the cost makes everyone think twice. Typically in pvp it's used in HAC/t3 gangs with ample logi support. The higher scan res does make it a better gate camper.

Vintage heavy industries
Posted - 2011.08.18 08:42:00 - [16]

Edited by: pussnheels on 18/08/2011 08:45:38
I absolutely love my legion for several reasons
Pve against it natural enemies sansha and bloodraiders you can speedtank almost all missions and still complete your mission well withing a good time and have great flying her, tho the tengu is better and you are just as vulnerable against web / scram combo s
Low sex exploration, in my opinion only ship that ever come closest to a dedicated explorer ship , good scanning stats and enough fire power to take on all but the hardest sites

Other uses i have to agree with other posters in here it is good in the role but not the best and certainly more expensive than their t2 counterparts

Also why a legion in pulse laser mode it looks damn sexy

Small edit. Lazors , number one reason to fly only amarr
Another reason to fly amarr , shieldtanking is for pussies ,shieldtank is that red bar above 'my armourtank

Uol Kafshaz
DaVinci Inc
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:23:00 - [17]

The Legion is a fine ship its just like any other Amarr ship, it takes a lot more skill training to really shine.

The Legion is a really fine low sec combat anamoly ship which is what I primarily use it for. It's really flexible for low sec running and you'd be surprised how much of a deterrent a T3 can be for solo pirates.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.20 00:11:00 - [18]

Pre-neuting Sleepers, we used to do wormhole sites with a pulse Legion. The Legion excelled at tearing frigates apart before a Tengu could even get a target lock.

Bayesian Motion
Knights of Tomorrow
Posted - 2011.08.20 08:36:00 - [19]

Edited by: JackStraw56 on 20/08/2011 08:39:09
Edited by: JackStraw56 on 20/08/2011 08:38:47
Originally by: Sin Meng
Pulse Legion is fantastic for blitzing vanguard incursion sites
This. The legion is one of the very best Vanguard ships out there. In this setting, it doesn't matter that a Zealot would be a good cheap alternative, you are making so much isk that it doesn't make a difference.

It excels at killing frigates, which comprise the majority of targets in Vanguards. It has enough range to hit any frig in any site (unlike the other T3s except the Tengu which suffers from delayed damage of missiles). It locks very fast with the tactical targeting sub (which is very important when you are competing with another fleet in a site). It also gets more utility mids than a Zealot which are very useful in Vans and 3 rigs instead of 2.

Posted - 2011.08.20 09:41:00 - [20]

And unlike the Absolution (another very solid contender for best medium turret platform) it gets an optimal bonus, which actually lets scorch hit far enough to snipe at targets as they close range in NMCs and OTAs.

I've got a small writeup on the incursion legion, here. It's a nice ship.

Posted - 2011.08.20 15:32:00 - [21]

Edited by: raukosen on 20/08/2011 15:33:08
Neut Legion can actually fit a tank, stay on the field and not run away like a *****. It has a place in T3 WH gangs, especially if you're fighting capitals in a smaller hole.

Cloaky WH gank Legion can also fit a really huge buffer

Posted - 2011.08.20 19:19:00 - [22]

The 100mn AB HAM legion sports heavy tank, good dps, and the ability to gtfo with the unscramable 100mn AB which gives it the speed greater than MWD. The 100mn AB does kill your agility, but its also a good thing in that when you get webbed your speed decreases much more slowly giving you a better chance of escaping.


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