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blankseplocked About the 24 hour training que
 
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Mirima Thurander
Posted - 2011.08.16 19:26:00 - [1]
 

i just cant under stand why there's a 24 hour limit on it, clearly there's a reason beside just because, but if not why not do away with it? I would love to be able to drop in 2 or 3 months of skills and not have to worry about convening someone to to come update my skill que, while im off doing my job.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.08.16 19:46:00 - [2]
 

The original problem was that there was no queue, so managing skill training was a huge pain. It required people to either log on at strange times or training skills they didn't want to so they could get a good night sleep. The current skill queue makes sense as a solution to that original problem. It's main intention was to remove the previous inconvenience and add new convenience features to make managing your training effortless and easy. It is worth noting that what you suggest was proposed, but CCP specifically dismissed the idea, since they wanted to have people logging on at regular intervals and actually playing the game.

Mirima Thurander
Posted - 2011.08.17 03:39:00 - [3]
 

Well most people are logging on when they can now if there playing the game actively.

But I see no reason why i should keep a sub up when i'm gone for 3+ months at a time when I can only use 19 of the days training a skill (i know skills can have longer than that that's the time my skills have right now), so I'm thinking of starting unsubing when I leave on work.

Its more of a payed for and wasted time than any thing that's bothering me about this.

Nezumiiro Noneko
Posted - 2011.08.17 04:05:00 - [4]
 

its better than the old days I hear wheere you had alarm clock ops to train lol.


Probably also done to make char farming jsut a bit of work. Put in skills, walk away for 4 months, post on char selling board. CCP wants you to say hi once in while to earn that isk.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.17 10:06:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Mirima Thurander
Well most people are logging on when they can now if there playing the game actively.

But I see no reason why i should keep a sub up when i'm gone for 3+ months at a time when I can only use 19 of the days training a skill (i know skills can have longer than that that's the time my skills have right now), so I'm thinking of starting unsubing when I leave on work.

Its more of a payed for and wasted time than any thing that's bothering me about this.


you can manage skills on pretty any PC/laptop out there when you got internet access (public WLAN access points?). So unless you're leving to the deepest jungle for months, you should get internet access pretty everywhere.

PaulTheConvoluted
Posted - 2011.08.17 10:54:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
they wanted to have people logging on at regular intervals and actually playing the game.
What they failed to realize is that these two thing are far from equal to each other.

When I took a break I had recently payed for half a year up front (lower monthly prices and all :P ). So what happened? Every now and then I'd log in and start the next skill. Did I undock and actually _do_ anything during that period? Nope.. (well, unless you count the one time I relocated to a university so I could buy skill books ...)

It definitely is a huge improvement over the previous system, for which I am grateful, I just think they made the queue too short and for the wrong reason. Don't even get me started on the 'It was hard for me so it should be hard for you as well'-crowd ...

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2011.08.17 22:04:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 17/08/2011 22:04:43
Originally by: PaulTheConvoluted
What they failed to realize is that these two thing are far from equal to each other.

When I took a break I had recently payed for half a year up front (lower monthly prices and all :P ). So what happened? Every now and then I'd log in and start the next skill. Did I undock and actually _do_ anything during that period? Nope.. (well, unless you count the one time I relocated to a university so I could buy skill books ...)

It definitely is a huge improvement over the previous system, for which I am grateful, I just think they made the queue too short and for the wrong reason. Don't even get me started on the 'It was hard for me so it should be hard for you as well'-crowd ...
A single player gamer will stay a single player gamer.

But if you happen to be in a player corp, even if you just log in occasoinally, you will most likely meet some corpmates, have a little chat on what's been going on and how the latest wardec is coming along. And that is what an mmo developer tries to do. Keeping you interacting with other people to make you stay in the game.

It's easier to keep you playing an mmo because you do stuff with friends than to produce more actual game content/features.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2011.08.17 22:16:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Mirima Thurander
i just cant under stand why there's a 24 hour limit on it, clearly there's a reason beside just because, but if not why not do away with it? I would love to be able to drop in 2 or 3 months of skills and not have to worry about convening someone to to come update my skill que, while im off doing my job.

As stated, times were there was no queue at all. If you trained a 10min skill, you had better be back in 10min, or you sat idle for however long.

24hrs lets you set several of the short skills, and then tack on something long at the end if you need to. Train up all the beginning levels, and finish with that one Lvl V you may eventually get around to.

If they made the queue several months long without pause, people who get alt accts and farm up toons for later resale. A basic scanner, or miner, or cyno alt, don't take that long. Especially if you could go from zero to trained in a single queue and never look back.

Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.17 22:17:00 - [9]
 

Anyone that complains should have it removed on their account.

Graeme Rowney
Posted - 2011.08.18 01:01:00 - [10]
 

All they need to do is allow you to set up your queue from the account management screen on the website. All that you would have to do is buy the books before u leave have them in ur items in the system u are in and u can add them to your queue online. This would mean that u could do it on any laptop computer tablet phone.... without having to have the client installed. Defo keep it 24 hours tho.

PaulTheConvoluted
Posted - 2011.08.18 10:11:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: PaulTheConvoluted on 18/08/2011 10:12:30
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
A single player gamer will stay a single player gamer.
Assumptions, assumptions...
Quote:
But if you happen to be in a player corp
That was the sole reason I stayed on as long as I did. My taking a break from EVE had zero to do with my corp or alliance mates, more with being tired with the game itself (or perhaps the way I played it. And guess what, a few months of training in a different direction allowed me to go do something else).

You don't entice me to play the game more by 'forcing' me to log in, and that's just me being tired of the game for a bit (so I'd rather say it compounded the problem); I haven't even mentioned the guys that _can't_ log in no matter how hard they would want to.

If I _want_ to play the game, I will (if there are no external factors of course). If I don't want to, don't force me to in order to make use of the single one item in game over which I have no other control than patience...

Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.08.18 12:13:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Mirima Thurander

But I see no reason why i should keep a sub up when i'm gone for 3+ months at a time when I can only use 19 of the days training a skill (i know skills can have longer than that that's the time my skills have right now), so I'm thinking of starting unsubing when I leave on work.


That is a price you pay for whatever job you have. If you are always near an internet connection of some form, consider investing in a small laptop (something you should have anyway, by the sounds of it) and installing eve on it.

If you have a job where you cannot get internet access, eg a secret navy patrol or an arctic research lab, consider all the benefits such jobs bring in exchange for the relatively minor pain of not being able to conveniently switch skills in eve.

Certainly cancelling your sub while away is a reasonable response to that form of predicament. Asking an entire game mechanic to be changed to convenience you is not a reasonable response.

The truth is, if CCP let people queue skills ad infinitum, people would queue two years or more of skills at once, pay $250 to keep it running and not log in, then sell the characters for an isk profit at the end, and thats really not the point of the game. I think its a good thing that the skill queue is only 24 hours long.

PaulTheConvoluted
Posted - 2011.08.18 14:17:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Sir Substance
Asking an entire game mechanic to be changed to convenience you is not a reasonable response.
Wait what? What game mechanic exactly are we talking about? I thought it was about the queue, not the speed or what SP do to you?

The queue is not a game mechanic. It does not let me kill you faster, it does not let me mine faster, it does not let me farm lvl 4 missions faster. It removes a pointless tedium from the game.
Quote:
The truth is, if CCP let people queue skills ad infinitum, people would queue two years or more of skills at once, pay $250 to keep it running and not log in, then sell the characters for an isk profit at the end, and thats really not the point of the game.
Take a look in the character bazaar. People are already doing that.

Yes, it would make it more easy on those kind of persons as well, but, as soon as you're past some basic skills you get to the realm of week-long skills, and changing those doesn't take much time at all. RMT excempt, the only ones interested in large amounts of ingame ISK are already playing the game. Having an extra account in Evemon and logging that in once every now and then to change skill is not hurting them in the slightest, but having a longer queue would help out loads of people.

Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.08.18 14:32:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: PaulTheConvoluted

The queue is not a game mechanic.


Of course it is, think before you open your mouth.

Here is an easy definition of a game mechanic for you, ruthlessly stolen from wikipedia:

Game mechanics are constructs of rules intended to produce an enjoyable game or gameplay.

The rule is: you may not queue more then 23 hours 59 minutes + the training time of your longest available skill at any one time.

This generates enjoyable gameplay by ensuring people PLAY THE GAME. Since this is a massively multiplayer game, having no-one online wouldn't be much fun.

PaulTheConvoluted
Posted - 2011.08.18 14:36:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Sir Substance
Of course it is, think before you open your mouth.
I did, can you give me the same courtesy?

Logging in to change skills =/= playing the game
Being 'forced' to log in during a specific 24h window =/= fun

Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:01:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: PaulTheConvoluted

Logging in to change skills =/= playing the game



I really shouldn't have to tell you that once logged in, your odds of participating in any given activity grow rapidly. That should, again, be very obvious.

If you have to log in at least once a fortnight on average, and more often then that in bursts, it's likely you'll get told about alliance ops, find out about wars or feel the urge to top up your wallet a bit.

If you can go for two years without logging in, you'll never do any of these things.

Fortunately, the devs and I see eye to eye on this, so this entire argument is already over, you're just flogging a dead horse. With that said and the acknowledgement that its 12:30am here, I'm going to bed.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:56:00 - [17]
 

24 hours is ample enough time.

Just don't be an idiot, and stack a long one at the end, and use something like Evemon or the plethora of other api apps available to track your skill training.

Jeeze... even in the old days of no 24 hours queue I still never had to ask my GF to update my skills or alarm clock at night.

Eve doesn't reward stupidity, and never should.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:57:00 - [18]
 

I'd be happy with an app where I could maintain skills from my smartphone...

Plyn
Posted - 2011.08.18 16:23:00 - [19]
 

I think a lot of people here are missing a very important fact in why CCP wants you to log in.

It's not just hoping you'll interact and be interested.

Logins are tracked and published. It's one of the statistics by which the pulse of mmo's are measured against each other. If CCP published that they had (random numbers here for illustrative purposes) 600,000 active subscriptions that sounds good. Then you point out that only 50,000 of those logged in this week.

Some people research games before playing them, and that's one of the reasons that you can easily find graphs of concurrent logins, total logins, whatever for various days/times. If you don't have to log in to change your skill, they won't be able to count some of these accounts as "active" players. It's a numbers game.

PaulTheConvoluted
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:19:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Magnus Orin
Eve doesn't reward stupidity, and never should.
Originally by: Sir Substance
I really shouldn't have to tell you that once logged in, your odds of participating in any given activity grow rapidly. That should, again, be very obvious.
Is it really so hard to imagine that ppl may have legitimate reasons they cannot or do not want to play EVE for some time?

They too paid for their gametime, then let them at least us the single one thing they (or anyone else for that matter) cannot get in any other way other than waiting (which is boring enough as it is). Gaining skillpoints is not a reward for playing the game, it's a reward for buying (and extending) your pilot licence. EVE is just about the only game in the universe where this is so, so at least give those who cannot login regularly some more freedom in that aspect.

Even if you think their reasons are spurious, Sir Substance, I politely ask you to log in, go to your skillbook, change the queue and log out again. Exactly where in that sequence do you read mail or chat? If you read mail or chat, you're playing the game already, as the social part is a huge chunk of the game. Hell, I can use EVE as an expensive instant messaging platform for all CCP cares without ever training a skill.

I stick to my point: Logging in just to change skills =/= playing the game. Therefor the only other reasons against it I've seen are 'the Bazaar will be flooded' (which I've countered and have yet to see a reply to) and the elitist 'It was hard for me, it should be hard for you as well!' which of course is no argument at all.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:52:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Nezumiiro Noneko
its better than the old days I hear wheere you had alarm clock ops to train lol.



what he said

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.08.19 11:25:00 - [22]
 

The 24hour queue is a compromise between people not losing out from sleeping and jobbing while still having an incentive to log in on regular intervals.
CCP do not want character farming to take overhand by allowing someone to line up skills for a few months without having to login and play.


 

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