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Lu Jin'Drago
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:04:00 - [1]
 

I am currently training Amarr skills in hopes of contributing to a pvp corp soon and have some concerns. I've been reading the forums a lot trying to learn as much as I can about the game and combat in general and have noticed a troubling trend. It seems like most posts, comments, builds, and overall advice are about non Amarr ships.

Did I pick the wrong type of ships to train? Are Amarr ships not good for PvP? Any advice would be much appreciated as I only have 4mill SP and if I'm doing something wrong I'd rather know now so I can make adjustments as necessary.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:32:00 - [2]
 

You clearly didn't look hard, since this same question gets asked a lot!

No matter - all races have pros and cons when it comes to PVP, or indeed PVE. Some will have a different feel to others, though, and be flown in different ways.

Currently the FOTM around many parts is for people to engage in a ship that can't possibly be caught and held down by the victim, should he be able to muster a fight. Minmitar ships (and the Angel ships using their skills and weapons) are better at this than others, so see a lot of use.

Amarr are very viable for PVP, and even if you start to feel otherwise, your support skills (armour tanking / gunnery / drones / etc) will cross over to many Minmitar and Gallente ships if you want to crosstrain.

Tabernack en Chasteaux
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:45:00 - [3]
 

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Amarr have some very strong pvp ships. The Abaddon is a popular fleet ship, and the Amarr recons are pretty solid for soloing.

Bloemkoolsaus
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:50:00 - [4]
 

Harbinger, Zealot, Curse (amongst others) are excellent ships to use for pvp. Sure, amarr has downsides. But they also have some strong advantages.

They handle different then for example minmatar ships though. It's all about style really. And amarr shares a lot of support skills with gallente and minmatar so cross training in the future should not be that much trouble.

Lu Jin'Drago
Posted - 2011.08.16 17:17:00 - [5]
 

Thanks for the input everyone, I just didn't want to end up training millions of SP worth of skills and realize I can run a lvl 4 woohoo! but can't contribute in pvp. Someone also said it's good to cross train at least one other races ships so you can give your corps fleet leader more options.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.16 21:42:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 16/08/2011 21:58:56

Punisher with AutoCannons and energy neutralizers is a pretty mean little frigate. Otherwise Amarr T1 frigates not so great (the Magnate and Purifier bomber are great). It takes so little time to train frigates and their weapons, so it isn't unusual to be able to pilot them all.

Amarr have high EHP ships that tend to be slow as a result of all that armor. The larger the ship, the more popular Amarr is for PvP.

Abaddons with Artillery (not lasers) are used by armor alpha fleets instead of Minmatar Maelstroms (shield). Guardians and Damnations are part of nearly all armor fleets. The Curse and Pilgrim are just nasty to face.


Bloemkoolsaus
Posted - 2011.08.17 11:28:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Lu Jin'Drago
Someone also said it's good to cross train at least one other races ships so you can give your corps fleet leader more options.


That is true. But keep in mind that it's better to be good in one area/race then it is to be avarage in two.

Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.17 12:45:00 - [8]
 

I have never flown a Amarr ships myself but as a fairly productive PvPer I find that they are no less competative and good at PvP than any other ships. Also you will find that their is actually considerably less knowledge about Amarr ships in the game than any other, quite often when Im in a fleet and we run up on an Amarr ship the first question is "what the **** is that thing?" because its just a less frequently seen race of ships in the game than any other. Its always been like that in Eve, their is a bit of mystery their.

I personally have always wanted to try them out.

Lu Jin'Drago
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:14:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 16/08/2011 21:58:56

Punisher with AutoCannons and energy neutralizers is a pretty mean little frigate. Otherwise Amarr T1 frigates not so great (the Magnate and Purifier bomber are great). It takes so little time to train frigates and their weapons, so it isn't unusual to be able to pilot them all.

Amarr have high EHP ships that tend to be slow as a result of all that armor. The larger the ship, the more popular Amarr is for PvP.

Abaddons with Artillery (not lasers) are used by armor alpha fleets instead of Minmatar Maelstroms (shield). Guardians and Damnations are part of nearly all armor fleets. The Curse and Pilgrim are just nasty to face.




So are lasers not the weapon of choice for pvp when flying Amarr? Should I be training up more AC and Artillery skills?

Oh and thanks again for all the input, it really helps!

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:27:00 - [10]
 

Laser work on a lot of Amarr ships, but punisher is a special sort, since he only gets the bonus for cap usage on laser, but no damage bonus.

So you are exchanging some raw damage output for cap safety. Trade that a lot of frigate pilots seem to prefer.

Also, autocannons have much lighter fitting requirements, so AC punishers tend to have beefier tank, at the cost of damage output.

Lu Jin'Drago
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:47:00 - [11]
 

Ok, so it sounds like maybe I should do some cross training on both lasers and AC's and maybe Artillery to have options as I learn to fly different Amarr ships?

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:44:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Lu Jin'Drago
Ok, so it sounds like maybe I should do some cross training on both lasers and AC's and maybe Artillery to have options as I learn to fly different Amarr ships?
You don't have to fly any specific ship, or fit it in any specific way. You are the pilot, so the choices are up to you, and you are the one that has to deal with the consequences.

Starting out, I'd probably recommend not to diversify too much. Just focus on your chosen race of ships and weapons. Later when you decide you need more of an edge, then you can consider training weapons and ships of other races... when you know more about what to train/fit and why.

My point was to show that Amarr is not a bad choice of ships for PvP, and like all races they have strengths and weaknesses.

Centurin
Confederation Navy Research
Epsilon Fleet
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:16:00 - [13]
 

You are much better off specializing in one race as a new pilot. You will be far more effective in PVP than cross training at this point. As already stated, Amarr have several very viable PVP ships. Stick to Lasers and Drones and you'll be fine.

Lu Jin'Drago
Posted - 2011.08.17 19:53:00 - [14]
 

Awesome advice, thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I've spent a lot of my sp on lasers, drone skills for my arby, and skills to benefit flying frigs and cruisers with somewhat effectivness. I just finished frig V a couple of hours ago. I'll stay focused on trying to effectivly fly what I can right now and not get to spread out. Thanks again for all the advice!

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:09:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: foksieloy on 17/08/2011 20:10:20
If you ever get the desire to try out other races, you can get a good feeling for them by simply training the racial frigate and racial weapon to III. That takes a few hours, and lets you see if your initial choice is best for your temperament.

EDIT: Do this on a trial account to not "waste" training on your main.

Liz Laser
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.08.19 22:15:00 - [16]
 

There are PvP alliances that have Fleet Doctrines and specified fleet fits.

Some of those are going to suck for you, but others will be great for you.

I have one character (this one) who has pretty much devoted her entire career to training what somebody else thinks she should fly. It is terribly inefficient, but has led to a very flexible character.

That might seem annoying, but I've alleviated it by training alts on a second account exactly the way *I* want them skilled. Those alts ARE more efficient for a particular purpose, but not nearly as flexible as this character.

Jiska Ensa
Posted - 2011.08.19 22:41:00 - [17]
 

The biggest (and only) disadvantage Amarr face, that I've come across, is that they are slow. As was stated above, many people prefer not to ever lose ships, and like to fly fast, uncatchable setups. Amarr don't appeal to these pseudo-carebears (that's right, I went there!) once they're in a fight they aren't going to escape unless the other guy dies.

That being said, their lack of agility is partially made up by their weaponry. Lasers are an odd weapon in that the short-range version (pulse lasers) can actually put out some pretty decent dps at some pretty crazy ranges. A harbinger can easily shoot out to about 30 km (more with the right modules), and Amarr battleships can easily hit things 60 km away, then switch to short-range ammo and hit them again at down to 10 km. Gallente and Minmatar don't really have that kind of versitility with their weapons. It's either short range or long range and medium is tough to get without sacrificing tracking or damage.

So long story short, there is nothing wrong with Amarr. They are best used in slow-moving, hard hitting, "us or them" type fights. You can speed/shield tank them but really you're not getting their full potential out of that.

Lu Jin'Drago
Posted - 2011.08.20 15:22:00 - [18]
 

Now that we are on the topic of lasers Razz I was told to use pulse lasers and that they are better for both missions and PvP. Is this true? If so what is the point of Beam lasers? I know they have extended range but being as slow as Amarr ships are, it seems likely that most all ships will end up in pulse range sooner or later no?

AmarrettoDiAmarr
Posted - 2011.08.20 19:27:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Lu Jin'Drago
Now that we are on the topic of lasers Razz I was told to use pulse lasers and that they are better for both missions and PvP. Is this true? If so what is the point of Beam lasers? I know they have extended range but being as slow as Amarr ships are, it seems likely that most all ships will end up in pulse range sooner or later no?


Not having flown Amarr, but my motivation is to keep telling myself that someday I will own a Nightmare with Tachyons.

Bloemkoolsaus
Posted - 2011.08.21 00:31:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Lu Jin'Drago
Now that we are on the topic of lasers Razz I was told to use pulse lasers and that they are better for both missions and PvP. Is this true? If so what is the point of Beam lasers? I know they have extended range but being as slow as Amarr ships are, it seems likely that most all ships will end up in pulse range sooner or later no?


I don't know about missions but I use Amarr alot for PVP. I prefer pulse as my standard weapon in almost any situation. Depending on crystal loaded (and they change immediatly as opposed to 10 seconds for other weapons) i can engage between 5km and 40km.

Beams are awesome for sniper fleets that engage at extreme ranges.

Tom Willson
Posted - 2011.08.21 09:43:00 - [21]
 

Tachyon Paladin is very enjoyable. Tracks dessies + some frigs at 15km, too, with triple TC's.

Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.08.23 06:28:00 - [22]
 

I recommend you watch this video to get an idea of how higher-level gang operations work, as well as the contributions of Amarr ships like the Zealot and Guardian. Download and watch at high-resolution to do it correctnly, though.

Abaddons, Harbingers, and Curses are also useful, but for faster or lighter fleets Amarr aren't as optimal.

Angelhunter
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.08.23 08:29:00 - [23]
 

Abaddons, Geddons, Harby's, Zealots, Guardians, Curse, Pilgrim are all great ships and you will find them in most standard alliance operation fleets. One thing to always remember about Amarr ships is they tend to have some of the best EHP of all ships and they have a wider selection of ranges with Pulse and Beam lasers.... not too mention the lack of ammo needs.

One thing i will warn though is alot of those ships take specialized training that will take some time, especially the Zealot and Guardian which are absolute staples in AHAC fleets.

Lu Jin'Drago
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:46:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Sakura Nihil
I recommend you watch this video to get an idea of how higher-level gang operations work, as well as the contributions of Amarr ships like the Zealot and Guardian. Download and watch at high-resolution to do it correctnly, though.

Abaddons, Harbingers, and Curses are also useful, but for faster or lighter fleets Amarr aren't as optimal.


Thanks for the Vid Sakura, very insightful. Since I originally posted this I do feel better about my choice of ships. I see the same types of ships everywhere I go and they are not amarr but that doesn't bother me anymore, it actually inspires me. I was told that information is power and being a smart pilot is better than being a pilot in the flavor of the month club. I intend to stick with amarr and try and focus on learning how to be a good pvp pilot. I'd still like to get into a stealth bomber at some point but logi is looking more and more like my thing. I like the idea of the Guardian.

Talr Shiar
Posted - 2011.08.23 18:13:00 - [25]
 

the guardian, bhaalgorns, curse their nice ships. Every race has their nice shps, and you being properly trained in teh ship you want to use vs, the enemy being trained not so well and not knowing how his ship works will get you a kill every time.

Goldman Suchs
Posted - 2011.08.24 14:56:00 - [26]
 

My main is Amarr. I focussed on sub capital Amarr ships and lasers (and the core skills of course) for the first 2 years. Just lately I have added a twist of Caldari for versatility.

And I dont regret a thing.

Amarr take more skill to fly imo, eg you have to keep a close eye on cap more than other races. But lasers are great damage dealers over a wide range, as other have said. Beam lasers on an Apoc will give you an optimal of over 200km! But sniping battleships are no longer FOTM :(

Adding Caldari lets me use Drakes for ratting (with missiles you can use the optimal damage type for the rats. Ratting in Amarr ships is a pretty miserable experience usually.


 

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