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Cyno Kidd
Posted - 2011.08.16 02:13:00 - [1]
 

Hi guys,

Intensive Refining Array which can be anchored in player POS is actually better than the station? The station takes 10%, the alliance tax.
When I wanna use the refining array, it takes 3 hours to refine but what's bothering me is that I cannot compare the results, station quote and refining array one cos you don't get a quote when you want to use the refining array.

So if anyone knows, which one is better after all, considering that the refining array is also consuming heavy water and whatever other resources.

o/

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2011.08.16 02:24:00 - [2]
 

AFAIK, POS refining arrays are almost ALWAYS worse than refining at a station. An intensive refining array has a yield of 75%, so you will ALWAYS lose 25% to waste.

If you have perfect refining, save for the 10% alliance cut, then you get a 90% refine at the station, while the POS will only give you 75%.

Cyno Kidd
Posted - 2011.08.16 03:00:00 - [3]
 

Thanks for the reply...So everybody wins with the station refining, I get better yield and alliance get it's 10% :)

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.16 05:26:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 16/08/2011 05:29:31

You are better off jumping a Rorqual full of ore to a lowsec NPC station with 50% facilities that you have standing with, and refining there for 100% yield. Pay the alliance 10% out of that.

Delana Wolf
Posted - 2011.08.16 13:45:00 - [5]
 

Have all skills on 5 (relevant on what u refine) and a the 5% Imp in the head and you refine @ zero on the array ...

The skills of the person counts who activate it


Sincerly

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.08.16 13:50:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 16/08/2011 05:29:31

You are better off jumping a Rorqual full of ore to a lowsec NPC station with 50% facilities that you have standing with, and refining there for 100% yield. Pay the alliance 10% out of that.



So, you still end up with 90% of the minerals, your alliance still ends up happy, but now you have to grind standings, train for and buy a Rorqual, and pay for jump fuel? Sorry, but I don't get your point. Confused

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.16 14:02:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Delana Wolf
Have all skills on 5 (relevant on what u refine) and a the 5% Imp in the head and you refine @ zero on the array ...

The skills of the person counts who activate it
Sincerly


unless i've missed it ... the Refining array is 75% hard cap for rocks, though is able to get up to 100% for ice...

@ Tau --> Yeah, supposing the player doesn't want to get L5 everything, and the refining implant...

Derath Ellecon
Posted - 2011.08.16 14:18:00 - [8]
 

So just for calculations sake, if I am using an intensive refining array at a POS (I know wasteful but in some cases its better than the alternative which would be to not mine).

My understanding is that the intensive refining array has a base 50%. So if I have a char with a personal refining of 38%. So my normal refining yield would be 88%. But since the module is capped at 75% that is all I get. Or does it work by knocking whatever the % down? IE, 75% of 83%, or 62%?


Nothing seems terribly clear on this point.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.16 14:43:00 - [9]
 

no, it's not.

I believe the array is listed as having a "0.75" refining modifier.

I would assume that means it's (Refining_Base) * 0.75.

where (Refining_Base) is what you'd get at a station of comparable base yield, taxes ignored.

Derath Ellecon
Posted - 2011.08.16 15:18:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Velicitia
no, it's not.

I believe the array is listed as having a "0.75" refining modifier.

I would assume that means it's (Refining_Base) * 0.75.

where (Refining_Base) is what you'd get at a station of comparable base yield, taxes ignored.


Not sure what the "no, it's not refers to"

But if this page is accurate: http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Refining

I would assume an intensive refinery array has a base of 50%

From the page:

"Most NPC stations have a basic efficiency rating of 50%, while some have a 35% rating. Player owned station refining arrays have various efficiency ratings, usually 35% or 50%."

Which i would read as the standard POS refinery array has a 35% base and the intensive has a base of 50%.

So just like at an NPC station you would take the stations base (say 50%) to which you add your personal % to get your rate, minus taxes etc.

The only thing the above page doesn't show (it has some great calculations) is how the POS refinery 75% is applied. IE, is it a cap, so anything calculated over 75% drops to 75%, or does it take the total percentage and * by .75


Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.16 15:19:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Derath Ellecon
Originally by: Velicitia
no, it's not.

I believe the array is listed as having a "0.75" refining modifier.

I would assume that means it's (Refining_Base) * 0.75.

where (Refining_Base) is what you'd get at a station of comparable base yield, taxes ignored.


Not sure what the "no, it's not refers to"

But if this page is accurate: http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Refining

I would assume an intensive refinery array has a base of 50%

From the page:

"Most NPC stations have a basic efficiency rating of 50%, while some have a 35% rating. Player owned station refining arrays have various efficiency ratings, usually 35% or 50%."

Which i would read as the standard POS refinery array has a 35% base and the intensive has a base of 50%.

So just like at an NPC station you would take the stations base (say 50%) to which you add your personal % to get your rate, minus taxes etc.

The only thing the above page doesn't show (it has some great calculations) is how the POS refinery 75% is applied. IE, is it a cap, so anything calculated over 75% drops to 75%, or does it take the total percentage and * by .75




dammit, thought I edited that bit outEmbarassed

ANYWAY -- that bit about "player stations" is for outposts, not POSes.

Derath Ellecon
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:19:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Velicitia
ANYWAY -- that bit about "player stations" is for outposts, not POSes.


Are you sure? Because the next sentence after the snippet I posted reads:

"Outpost and conquerable stations have varying ratings as well."

I left it out as I figured it irrelevant to the discussion. But that page seems to make a distinct difference between NPC stations, Player owner stations (POS) and outposts.

To be clear the entire thing reads

"Most NPC stations have a basic efficiency rating of 50%, while some have a 35% rating. Player owned station refining arrays have various efficiency ratings, usually 35% or 50%. Outpost and conquerable stations have varying ratings as well."


Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:24:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Derath Ellecon
Originally by: Velicitia
ANYWAY -- that bit about "player stations" is for outposts, not POSes.


Are you sure? Because the next sentence after the snippet I posted reads:

"Outpost and conquerable stations have varying ratings as well."

I left it out as I figured it irrelevant to the discussion. But that page seems to make a distinct difference between NPC stations, Player owner stations (POS) and outposts.

To be clear the entire thing reads

"Most NPC stations have a basic efficiency rating of 50%, while some have a 35% rating. Player owned station refining arrays have various efficiency ratings, usually 35% or 50%. Outpost and conquerable stations have varying ratings as well."




note to self -> *READ* Laughing

POS are 35% and 75% modifiers (based on the modules themselves).

Intensive Refining Array:
Refining Yield Multiplier : 0.75 x

Refining Array:
Refining Yield Multiplier : 0.35 x


I suppose one way to do it is get one of said array, and throw a load of veldspar into it... though with *everyone* stating that you take a 25% hit with the intensive arrays, I'd be liable to believe that outright...

Derath Ellecon
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:36:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Velicitia
Originally by: Derath Ellecon
Originally by: Velicitia
ANYWAY -- that bit about "player stations" is for outposts, not POSes.


Are you sure? Because the next sentence after the snippet I posted reads:

"Outpost and conquerable stations have varying ratings as well."

I left it out as I figured it irrelevant to the discussion. But that page seems to make a distinct difference between NPC stations, Player owner stations (POS) and outposts.

To be clear the entire thing reads

"Most NPC stations have a basic efficiency rating of 50%, while some have a 35% rating. Player owned station refining arrays have various efficiency ratings, usually 35% or 50%. Outpost and conquerable stations have varying ratings as well."




note to self -> *READ* Laughing

POS are 35% and 75% modifiers (based on the modules themselves).

Intensive Refining Array:
Refining Yield Multiplier : 0.75 x

Refining Array:
Refining Yield Multiplier : 0.35 x


I suppose one way to do it is get one of said array, and throw a load of veldspar into it... though with *everyone* stating that you take a 25% hit with the intensive arrays, I'd be liable to believe that outright...


Well yes I was hoping someone "knew" rather than just speculating.

I am also gonna consider that website to say what I believe it does (base efficiency rating is not the same as the modifier) and say they are stating the based efficiency rating is 50%. Then by my calcs my current toon would see a 68% efficiency refining. But only one way to find out, and that is to try.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.16 18:01:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
So, you still end up with 90% of the minerals, your alliance still ends up happy, but now you have to grind standings, train for and buy a Rorqual, and pay for jump fuel? Sorry, but I don't get your point. Confused

Not all Minmatar outposts have 50% facilities. If you have access to one, then sure use it.

Minmatar with 40% base facilities don't give full yield, even with an implant. The other racial outposts have at best 30% facilities, so I doubt if anyone bothers to install the refinery.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.17 09:36:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Minmatar with 40% base facilities don't give full yield, even with an implant. The other racial outposts have at best 30% facilities, so I doubt if anyone bothers to install the refinery.


The 35% base station I used to refine out of in nullsec would disagree with your statement Tau. Granted I was only getting 99.95% yield (pre-tax)...

40% should be doable at max skills without an implant.

30% leaves you at about ... 95% before tax with full skills/implants (if applicable).

CataCourier
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:35:00 - [17]
 

Confirming that I get 0 unrecoverable from having 40% station + level 4 ore processing skills + 2% implant.

Without the implant I reprocess at 99.5% on my level 4 ores, but I have some ores at level 3 that fully utilize the implant.

Derath Ellecon
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:43:00 - [18]
 

Well I can confirm a few things after using a Medium intensive refining array now.

It seems that this array has a base of 35%. And it seems to work as such.

(35% + Personal efficiency%) * .75

Loki Sei
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:31:00 - [19]
 

I was never able to completely confirm it, but I remember the POS refinery we used did seem to follow the following formula.

Refining yields in a 75% POS refinery = 56.25%*Skills

where Skills = (1+(Refining Skill Lvl * .02))*(1+(Refining Eff Skill Lvl*.04))*(1+(Ore Proc Skill Lvl*.05))

Remember it is Capped at 75% so all values greater then 75% = 75%.

But it is annoying that there is no "quote" to confirm what you are going to get.


 

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