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blankseplocked CCP, what's your vision/justification for lowsec?
 
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Liz Laser
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:39:00 - [1]
 

With so many stickied null-sec 5 year master plan threads up, I was wondering if CCP would care to iterate in a sentence or two the justification for having a low-sec and where that fits into the CSM's apparent desire to make null-sec self sufficient.

Sephiroth CloneIIV
Rim Worlds Republic
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.16 00:56:00 - [2]
 

It is basically like null sec NPC space, though worse. Anyone can dock, anyone can shoot anyone though gate and station guns limit stuff, and the sec hits are much lower. No concord no navys.

Its somewhere between player owned sov, and safe empire sov. It can be suck and unpopulated but that's what players make it to be.

You also have to use it for shipping stuff by capitals to empire from null sec. And its in-between for traveling so I don't like a whole lot to be in it, yet it has its people.

Can we get proposals or ideas on what is wrong with it, and not ambiguous complaining?

Liz Laser
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.08.16 11:10:00 - [3]
 

It's not a complaint. I'm curious what CCP sees as Low-Sec's purpose.

I do worry that if the CSM gets their way and null-sec becomes self reliant (see the various stickied threads) that less traffic will need to flow through lowsec.

Understanding CCP's vision/justification for lowsec is practically essential for critiquing their 5 year plan for null-sec.

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.08.16 12:17:00 - [4]
 

Lowsec is where the processed fecal matter ends up as it travels the pipes from the pristine ivory thrones of nullsec and highsec. Where else would **** go Rolling Eyes?

Hwong Jian
Posted - 2011.08.16 15:11:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Hwong Jian on 16/08/2011 15:35:18
Originally by: Aqriue
Lowsec is where the processed fecal matter ends up as it travels the pipes from the pristine ivory thrones of nullsec and highsec. Where else would **** go Rolling Eyes?


Main or gtfo, bear.

Also, welcome to hard-mode EVE. Where you don't have CONCORD, you don't have sov, you don't have bubbles, and if you get uppity at the system choke-points then extra guns will be shooting at you.

Honestly, I don't understand why the carebears or sovbears bash low sec so much. Is it a fear of the unknown? Or have you come to rely too much on the security blanket that is CONCORD or your 50-100 man standing fleets?

Hell, I've lost count of the times my militia corps got war-decced by high sec pirates and their 10-man hac and bc gangs wouldn't even jump into low sec to chase my solo cruiser.

And, almost as funny: the sovbears PvE for days to be able to outfit the carebears for mission running. Low sec? We just fly around looking for things to kill.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.16 15:42:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Hwong Jian
Main or gtfo, bear...

And how does account age/status impact validity or truth of a statement? Twisted Evil

Just because one can shoot things in low does not mean that it can't be improved upon ..
Imagine if shooting stuff was to benefit you in the longterm (epeen gets ragged after the umpteenth stroke), wouldn't that be something.

Living from hand-to-mouth has some merit, but if we didn't strive to improve out lot we'd still be hunter gatherers.

Hwong Jian
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:05:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
And how does account age/status impact validity or truth of a statement? Twisted Evil


No no. I'm just saying that if someone wants to bad-mouth one of the toughest corners of space in which to survive, they should have the backbone to do it on a character that has logged into the game some time within the past 12 months.

Lack of an avatar = posting with an alt.

And, the only reason people post with alts is to support their own argument or to hide their "true identity". Either way, it shows a weakness of character that I find laughable.

Plyn
Posted - 2011.08.16 17:16:00 - [8]
 

Actually, if you bothered to read the dev blogs that spawned the 5-year plan threads, you would know that the devs are making plans for low-sec, they just aren't advertising them as loudly.

Think "build faction loot from stuff only found in low sec" and then think how many people would move there and fight tooth and nail for the opportunity to get a corner of that market.

See this post by CCP Greyscale to see what I'm talking about: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1565831&page=3#64

Liz Laser
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.08.19 15:31:00 - [9]
 

Thanks, that was useful.

Plyn
Posted - 2011.08.19 15:47:00 - [10]
 

Always glad to help!

And my apologies for the jerklyness of my response. I had been digging through all the 5-year plans right before I read this, and was a little frustrated with the amount of people who bash nullsec without actually having a clue how it works.

Reading this thread again, I realize I totally misinterpreted your legitimate interest as veiled sarcasm.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.19 16:43:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Liz Laser
It's not a complaint. I'm curious what CCP sees as Low-Sec's purpose.

I do worry that if the CSM gets their way and null-sec becomes self reliant (see the various stickied threads) that less traffic will need to flow through lowsec.

Understanding CCP's vision/justification for lowsec is practically essential for critiquing their 5 year plan for null-sec.


If I were ccp I would completely ignore this query. why tie your hands with one or two sentenses to a single or even a few purposes for low sec.. when the fact is open ended play allows evolution of areas at any time? Why make a "5 year plan" for no mans land?


Plyn
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:25:00 - [12]
 

While I seriously doubt devs would respond to this topic (if you have participated in F&I for very long you will know that blue is a rare color in here) I think there does need to be somewhat of a general plan for lowsec, just like there is in high and null.

Of course people are free to play the game as they want, but there should be a reason to go to this space, financial incentives as well as "general fun" incentives.

It seems pretty evident to me that CCP has a progression in mind when it comes to space population. While some players refuse to follow the progression, I think it was originally intended to go something like this:

Players start in high-sec. They learn to fly their ships, get basic training done. Run missions/do basic mining etc. for a while until they feel like they have enough of a cash buffer to not be scared of occasional PvP. Players eventually form/join corps here, some of these corps fight, giving players a taste of the fun that awaits them. A hint of the "sandbox", but still fairly safe so they have time to adjust to the game.

Players move to low-sec. Here they can really get into the PvP spirit of the game, build up their PvP ability more thoroughly, while still being close enough to high-sec to run back there to make some ISK from time to time. They learn to use dscan, they learn to be wary, all of this is training for the next step.

Players eventually move to null-sec. *WARNING, INCOMING ANALOGY* Out of "school" where their assignments aren't being handed to them by their "teacher" (mission agent), they'll have to figure out making ISK on their own. There is no "bus-driver" (CONCORD) to break up fights. Null-sec is the "Real world" of EVE, where if you haven't done your homework you don't get a bad grade, you don't survive. /analogy

Many players follow this progression in the form of Mission Runner -> Faction Warfare -> Nullsec survivor. Others get comfortable somewhere along the way and settle in for the long haul. Part of the problem is that a lot of times the lowsec portion of this journey gets skipped. There's very little incentive for people who aren't excited by explosions+adrenaline.

Many players who move to nullsec aren't prepared for life there because they've skipped the lowsec portion of their training. Whether it's because they were more interested in mining/industry, or really they just wanted to save ISK because getting that cool new ship was more important to them than getting a killmail. Many of these players go back to highsec with a bitter taste in their mouth, vowing never to return to nullsec.

If there were more incentives to lowsec, such as stuff to mine there that isn't in highsec, or just more ISK to be made there than highsec, you'd see groups actually work at taking over and defending lowsec systems for these resources. You'd see more players who traditionally stayed in highsec come out for these opportunities, and in the meantime, they'd basically be in nullsec training 101.

Not only is lowsec underutilized, it's actually a very important design feature that's fallen to the wayside. The game as a whole would benefit if it became what I believe the designers actually had in mind for it.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.19 17:27:00 - [13]
 

wrt to faction ships being for low sec: The lp rewards/lp costs for FW missions are doing a great job of keeping me supplied with Faction Navy ships (and I go through alot of them :) ).

IMO, this is a great model for what they are trying to do. The faction ships are most affordable to my character because I can get them directly with LP rewards. I only wish empire faction gear had lower requirements on tags so I could purchase them as well (fed navy guns, for example).



 

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