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Takashi Halamoto
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.16 13:24:00 - [31]
 

another small thing

when an alliance owns a station the station owner should be able to configure some kind of status popup for alliance/blue pilots that log on in station along the lines of say big coloured block ranging from Blue to say red, and the option to add a quick message, so a pilot logs on in his home ratting system sees a big blue flag and 'alls well' message, then another day he logs in sees Orange and - CTA INCOMING GET IN FLEET, and in the worst cses a big red block and - EVAC NOW READ MAIL,

would allow a place to feel more like you own it, could be either a popup, a banner, a block on the station info plus a screen in CQ of course but should not be limited to CQ

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:17:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Bloodpetal on 16/08/2011 18:37:50
This post was meant to go in the Territory and Conquest thread.


Mindnut
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:33:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Mindnut on 16/08/2011 18:38:25
Hi all,
atm my home is in a high sec station. When I'll move to 0.0 again my home will still be here in high sec...

For me a home is a place where I can feel relatively safe and where I know my assets are safe aswell. I like having all sort of stuff. I've been collecting different ships, mods, (researched) blueprints since I started the game and it's all worth quite a lot now.
My home is where my assets are. Sure I can go to 0.0 and take a bunch of stuff with me that I'm prepared to lose but it won't feel like home.

Back in 2009 my friends and I rented space in Delve. We had to move out when Goons came. One of my friends still has assets in an outpost in 5btk and it's next to impossible for him to get it back.

I can cope with the fact that some day I can get kicked out of a "home" in 0.0 but I'm not going to risk having so much to lose in assets. And the more you spend in 0.0 the more assets you gather.

I really like the idea of being able to move out your assets from/to any outpost/station you like. If an outpost gets taken over one could just move it to a new home. After all we have jump gate technology. I don't see a reason why this couldn't work in a smaller scale, inside the stations, just to move assets. And if it's given a timer (let's say 3 months) then it won't render jumpfreighters useless. I'm sure there are means to prevent this mechanism from being used as basic means of transporting assets.

I also like the idea of having more then one outpost in the system. The more stations an alliance has in the system the more it will feel like home. It should make the home system different form other systems under sov.

This would also give a big advantage when protecting the system. One outpost get's surrounded and bubbled very easily. Now, if I lose my ship but manage to warp away my pod I can't get back to the station for annother ship.
Having more places to store ships in will give the defending alliance a chance to regroup and attack all within the same system. The attacker will have a harder job pinning the enemy down.

I think that a CAPITAL SYSTEM with extra bonuses would be nice to have. If an alliance claims space under sov. it should have the possibility to create a capital system which will be harder to take over by the attacker. Maybe add defences by the gates/stations.
Anything to raise a chance of survival for new alliances entering 0.0 would be good.

Annother thought - just after reading previous post... How about "internal - system security"? The Capital system would be (just an example on a 0-5 scale) "5" with max bonuses possible and very hard to take over. The further the influence of an alliance spreads the lower the security status and bonuses... Lowest security systems would be very easy to take over by others but the closer to the capital system the harder the job. Adjacent systems could then be upgraded from "0" to "4" but next system after that will never be higher then "3".
When an alliance claims space and creates a Capital, that system becomes lvl "5" sec automaticaly. Any other systems claimed have to be upgraded to higher sec then "0" via time and isk.

As for the bonuses. Why not boost most stats on structures as well as ships?
A fewer ships in a "5" sec system would stand a chance to a bigger fleet attacking them.
If you look at RL ppl feel more comfortable and safe in their own neighbourhood. It all changes when you enter someone elses home area.

This way a small alliance with only 3 systems at sec "5" and 2x "4" will have an easier job protecting their space then a big alliance with a lot of "0" or "1" security systems
The big guys would ofc also have their "home" space with high sec but any system beyond that would be harder to keep under sov.

Fly safe,
Mind

Baron Deathicon
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.16 18:01:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Taedrin
Create a mobile base of operations. Each player can only have ONE base of operations at a time. Make it so that a base of operations can be slowly upgraded to give it tiny bits of additional functionality at a time.
- Can be upgraded to provide a small POS-like forcefield
- Can be upgraded to provide a single ME/PE/Copy/Invention/manufacture slot (perhaps with a penalty to research speed)
- Can be upgraded to provide a reasonably sized private item hangar
- Can be upgraded to provide a reasonably sized private ship hangar - able to dock a battleship or two in it
- Can be upgraded to provide a refinery.
- Can be upgraded to provide repair services.
- Can be upgraded to anchor a few turrets which are able to scare off one or two pirates.

You could make it so that each upgrade consumes CPU or power so that a player will have to pick and choose which upgrades they want to have - giving your base of operations a more personal feel. Perhaps you could make it so that each upgrade can be further upgraded to additional levels, so that players can make choices such as "Do I really want the forcefield for my base? Maybe I should skimp on the forcefield and instead choose the cheaper ship hangar upgrade so that I can afford to have a second ME research slot!" Make it so that customization takes time and represents an investment of time/work for the player, and is not something that the player can simply buy off of the market and instantly apply.

It would be very important, however, to make it so that the mobile base can be moved without destroying these customizations. Ideally, it should be relatively painless to move your mobile base. Perhaps even make it so that a mobile base of operations can carry items in it's hangars when being moved - allowing players to use it as "extra cargo space" if they custimize it properly.

Make it so that destroying another player's mobile base of operations is possible - but requires significant effort, perhaps even teamwork. Having your mobile base of operations destroyed should not cost you a lot of money - but should still represent a loss of invested time through the destruction of your upgrades/customization.

Your base of operations, like a POS, will require regular maintenance and thus cost money to use. Forgetting to maintain it doesn't destroy upgrades, but renders the inoperable (and thus vulnerable!) until you refuel it. Make abandoned bases easy for a pilot to destroy solo - and pick up any loot left behind.


You're pretty much saying about the same thing as I did... grats.

Drizden D'Urden
Posted - 2011.08.16 18:24:00 - [35]
 

Your blog totally misses the main on so many levels. I will post here because this is where you talk about "Home." There can be no "Home" in null sec anymore. Until you fix the SOV system and Supercaps no alliance let alone a single or small corporation can have a "Home" in null sec. No I am not bitter, I am realistic. All it take is PL, NC, Raiden et. al. to roll through with supercaps and your "Home" is gone. Null sec should be about population density and not shooting structures. It is very difficult to make an outpost your home when it takes two days to get everything stuck there. The factor should be about an entity spending the most time in a system and not putting up stupid SBUs. So mining, solo pve, small gang pvp, large gang pvp, or manufacturing are all mute points until you fix the "Supercap roll-through" issue. I've talked to many small corps that never even consider going into null sec because it is too controlled by big alliances. That's what needs to be fixed first before you start talking about mining or manufacturing in null sec.

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
Posted - 2011.08.16 18:32:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Bloodpetal on 16/08/2011 18:36:45

The reason a Smallholding seems to be the direction everyone is going is because that concept provides a few things.

Safety
Manipulation of your environment
Productivity


Where can we go besides smallholdings that provides that experience.


Community is an important part of a wider sense of home. Your friends, your neighbors, etc.

Escalation is a pretty important part of safety. I have a big gun, but my neighbor has as big a gun as me, so let me make a bigger gun.

This eventually leads to war.

We're trying to create a somewhat "unnatural" situation here. In history, humans that weren't the biggest and the baddest got crushed by those who were.

I think it's an instinct also for humans to be able to survive without needing the bigger gun in an environment that although unfriendly can provide a sensation of home.

Let's look at all the options for Home discussed in other places and bring it here.

Types of Homes

Sovereignty and Outpost
POS Habitation
Smallholdings
Nomadic Travel


Are there any that we can add to the list that aren't considered, or not really gameplay?

Pure Station Habitation - living in a null sec station and never undocking can provide a home if you can use sufficient tools in the station to be productive even if you aren't the sov owner or "blue". i.e. Rare goods dealing from black market establishments using contacts and resources to acquire materials and resell them to other locals off station.


The list above is organized from the most secure types of "home" to the least secure types of "home".

As a thought exercise, let's say that the lower your sense of security, the more that you have to account for your experience of "home" with other elements of the sensation, Productivity and Manipulation.

So, for Sov and Outposts, you can have plenty of security, productivity and manipulation, and that is your ground level, and its pretty high across the board for all of those, with some restrictions. Productivity goes down the more labs+ mfg slots are used, and manipulating your environment goes down as well - (less establishment slots, more taxes, etc).


As you get down to Starbase habitation, you have more security, still plenty, but within 36 hours you can lose your home still (siege). You can be more productive, but you have to pay for your fuel as well, so there's incentive to continue to be productive, and your manipulation is perceptually high with what kind of modules you put and where.


Smallholdings as described in the other thread has a pretty high threshold for security (1 week or more to get your items safet), has a very high level of manipulation (perceptual or not) to what you can do with it, and productivity is probably somewhat low in the location itself (no moon mining, etc), but you can go and do productive things from the location itself.


Nomadic has the lowest level of security, a pretty low level of productivity restricted by your available ship(S) and a somewhat high manipulation factor, since you can go where you want, in theory, but you can't really actively manipulate your environment you're currently in.


Station Habitation is too intangible at the moment to really discuss, but can fall into this discussion pattern when it is a viable discussion.


So, looking at it this way...

What is the current balance between Security, Productivity and Manipulation between these different homes, and how can they be reviewed to provide a greater sensation of home as you delve into improving and augmenting them.


The less security you have, the more it should be made up for with productivity or manipulation, but it doesn't need to progress linearly down the path.

Less Security !> Productivity + Manipulation.

Smallholdings can be more Secure than POS, but have low productivity but higher manipulation, etc. Nomads can have the least security, but only the highest productivity and no manipulation, etc.


Kogh Ayon
Posted - 2011.08.16 21:45:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Mindnut
Edited by: Mindnut on 16/08/2011 18:38:25
Hi all,
atm my home is in a high sec station. When I'll move to 0.0 again my home will still be here in high sec...

For me a home is a place where I can feel relatively safe and where I know my assets are safe aswell. I like having all sort of stuff. I've been collecting different ships, mods, (researched) blueprints since I started the game and it's all worth quite a lot now.
My home is where my assets are. Sure I can go to 0.0 and take a bunch of stuff with me that I'm prepared to lose but it won't feel like home.

Back in 2009 my friends and I rented space in Delve. We had to move out when Goons came. One of my friends still has assets in an outpost in 5btk and it's next to impossible for him to get it back.

I can cope with the fact that some day I can get kicked out of a "home" in 0.0 but I'm not going to risk having so much to lose in assets. And the more you spend in 0.0 the more assets you gather.

I really like the idea of being able to move out your assets from/to any outpost/station you like. If an outpost gets taken over one could just move it to a new home. After all we have jump gate technology. I don't see a reason why this couldn't work in a smaller scale, inside the stations, just to move assets. And if it's given a timer (let's say 3 months) then it won't render jumpfreighters useless. I'm sure there are means to prevent this mechanism from being used as basic means of transporting assets.

I also like the idea of having more then one outpost in the system. The more stations an alliance has in the system the more it will feel like home. It should make the home system different form other systems under sov.

This would also give a big advantage when protecting the system. One outpost get's surrounded and bubbled very easily. Now, if I lose my ship but manage to warp away my pod I can't get back to the station for annother ship.
Having more places to store ships in will give the defending alliance a chance to regroup and attack all within the same system. The attacker will have a harder job pinning the enemy down.

I think that a CAPITAL SYSTEM with extra bonuses would be nice to have. If an alliance claims space under sov. it should have the possibility to create a capital system which will be harder to take over by the attacker. Maybe add defences by the gates/stations.
Anything to raise a chance of survival for new alliances entering 0.0 would be good.

Annother thought - just after reading previous post... How about "internal - system security"? The Capital system would be (just an example on a 0-5 scale) "5" with max bonuses possible and very hard to take over. The further the influence of an alliance spreads the lower the security status and bonuses... Lowest security systems would be very easy to take over by others but the closer to the capital system the harder the job. Adjacent systems could then be upgraded from "0" to "4" but next system after that will never be higher then "3".
When an alliance claims space and creates a Capital, that system becomes lvl "5" sec automaticaly. Any other systems claimed have to be upgraded to higher sec then "0" via time and isk.

As for the bonuses. Why not boost most stats on structures as well as ships?
A fewer ships in a "5" sec system would stand a chance to a bigger fleet attacking them.
If you look at RL ppl feel more comfortable and safe in their own neighbourhood. It all changes when you enter someone elses home area.

Fly safe,
Mind



I agree with this.

You would never call a sov station "home" exactly because they're conquerable.


Tasiv Deka
Amarr
The Baseborn Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.17 03:56:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Kogh Ayon
Originally by: Mindnut
Edited by: Mindnut on 16/08/2011 18:38:25
Hi all,
atm my home is in a high sec station. When I'll move to 0.0 again my home will still be here in high sec...

For me a home is a place where I can feel relatively safe and where I know my assets are safe aswell. I like having all sort of stuff. I've been collecting different ships, mods, (researched) blueprints since I started the game and it's all worth quite a lot now.
My home is where my assets are. Sure I can go to 0.0 and take a bunch of stuff with me that I'm prepared to lose but it won't feel like home.

Back in 2009 my friends and I rented space in Delve. We had to move out when Goons came. One of my friends still has assets in an outpost in 5btk and it's next to impossible for him to get it back.

I can cope with the fact that some day I can get kicked out of a "home" in 0.0 but I'm not going to risk having so much to lose in assets. And the more you spend in 0.0 the more assets you gather.

I really like the idea of being able to move out your assets from/to any outpost/station you like. If an outpost gets taken over one could just move it to a new home. After all we have jump gate technology. I don't see a reason why this couldn't work in a smaller scale, inside the stations, just to move assets. And if it's given a timer (let's say 3 months) then it won't render jumpfreighters useless. I'm sure there are means to prevent this mechanism from being used as basic means of transporting assets.

I also like the idea of having more then one outpost in the system. The more stations an alliance has in the system the more it will feel like home. It should make the home system different form other systems under sov.

This would also give a big advantage when protecting the system. One outpost get's surrounded and bubbled very easily. Now, if I lose my ship but manage to warp away my pod I can't get back to the station for annother ship.
Having more places to store ships in will give the defending alliance a chance to regroup and attack all within the same system. The attacker will have a harder job pinning the enemy down.

I think that a CAPITAL SYSTEM with extra bonuses would be nice to have. If an alliance claims space under sov. it should have the possibility to create a capital system which will be harder to take over by the attacker. Maybe add defences by the gates/stations.
Anything to raise a chance of survival for new alliances entering 0.0 would be good.

Annother thought - just after reading previous post... How about "internal - system security"? The Capital system would be (just an example on a 0-5 scale) "5" with max bonuses possible and very hard to take over. The further the influence of an alliance spreads the lower the security status and bonuses... Lowest security systems would be very easy to take over by others but the closer to the capital system the harder the job. Adjacent systems could then be upgraded from "0" to "4" but next system after that will never be higher then "3".
When an alliance claims space and creates a Capital, that system becomes lvl "5" sec automaticaly. Any other systems claimed have to be upgraded to higher sec then "0" via time and isk.

As for the bonuses. Why not boost most stats on structures as well as ships?
A fewer ships in a "5" sec system would stand a chance to a bigger fleet attacking them.
If you look at RL ppl feel more comfortable and safe in their own neighbourhood. It all changes when you enter someone elses home area.

Fly safe,
Mind



I agree with this.

You would never call a sov station "home" exactly because they're conquerable.




Thirded

catinboots
Minmatar
Vintage heavy industries
Posted - 2011.08.17 07:00:00 - [39]
 

After posting in several of the feedbackthreads and a good night sleep here is my summary of my opinions about the ideas in your devblog

If the plan is to draw more players into nullsec by buffing it so it gets selfsufficient and by doing so nerf highsec industry to death it is. A very bad idea
Giving them a boost in industry and research so they are equal to thehigh sec manufacturing and research stations , yes but making them self sufficient NEVER
Don t touch high sec alot of people dislike nullsec not because of the risk but because of the amateur politics of those dramaqueens who call them selves alliance leaders
You will only force people out of the game

Another drastic idea is to kill off those large alliances yep you read this correct , they way to large and to powerfull to have a positive influence on the sandbox , i have a feeling they are even destroying the sandbox very slowly
Put a cap on the number of systems one alliance can hold sov over, between 20 and 30 or something
Much more space become available for the other alliances to take sov and do some empire building themselves
As a bonus you will encourage small gang roams
Alliances will form coalitions and powerblocks but that s normal and encouraged
Last point make moon goo depletable, say a moon can provide. Goo for a few months and then become depleted , when this happened another moon somewhere in nullsec becomes rich in moongoo untill itgets discovered and mined to depletion

Just some thoughts

Takashi Halamoto
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.17 08:03:00 - [40]
 

As i posted last time the OMG kill large alliances topic was posted by you it wont work, alliances were brought in because people were doing it without the rules, if you try and arbitary limit things people will find a way around, for instance only 30 systems per alliance? okay so the DRF each split into 4 smaller alliances all called say XXDeathXX1, XXDeathXX2 etc and can now hold 120 systems in this uber coaliton,

you talk about killing the game by breaking highsec, the same applies to null, people in null want alliances, people in empire do not, both are happy in their homes, trying to restrict one is not good, also this about home not industry


Now here's an actual idea, diversify! make an alliance able to customise the colour of their stations, or rather set alliance colours which then are applied to the outside of stations/gates/ihubs, so frinstance razor might choose a set of orange/black/gold stripes from the options available, then when you jump into razor space (should we ever conquer any) the gates and stations and such would all clearly reflect the owners and instantly help you tell where you are,

but as pointed out the biggest problem with having a home in null is you can loose it and all your stuff, some kind of evac insurance or such that can be activated as a last ditch move the stuff out option should be available so people wont feel like their putting all their eggs under the steam roller

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.17 08:04:00 - [41]
 

A sense of 'home' can be easily achieved (even without the fact that you have assets stored there) by allowing customizability to your CQ, but only in stations where you buy them (from the NeX, where else). To move your furniture out, you need to put in a request and it may take a day, and you also need to have access to the station to make a move request. Moving can only be done to stations that you have assets at, and it costs a fixed fee just like moving your med clone. That way, if you lose your null sec home, all your nice furniture is gone to the victors. You cannot lose your home in highsec or lowsec of course, unless you somehow bonk your standings with the owning NPC corp to the point where you cannot dock.




Takashi Halamoto
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.17 08:30:00 - [42]
 

NO NO NO NO

you cannot make the feeling of home NeX exclusive because then its forcing people to pay more to fix something that ccp has deemed a problem, Greyscale wants null to be a real home for nullsecers, if you make us pay in the NeX we wont and we will feel angry and betrayed,

now a pilot, you, me, Fumbles McSucideGank, should be able to buy some NeX personal home accessories irresepctive of null or empire location and they should be in the 10-200 AUR range, but for the Corp and Alliance level it should be free

for instance in your CQ a wall should have your Corp Banner as a banner with say the Corp Ticker on the bottom, and next to it a banner of your Alliance logo and ticker, and that should be automatic and free, then make it that find some spots on the outside of stations and code it so that as well as my idea for a selectable alliance colour decals (stripes, chevrons or such) the Alliance Logo and Corp logo of the owning corp are applied in large size to the outside of stations, that way when -A- undock from one of their station they see the Red and Silver squares and the Flags of -A- and the Corp that owns the station on the side of their station


its simple cosmetic trickery but it would make it feel like you truly owned the station and would help inspire people to care more and fight harder to take their enemies flags down and protect their own

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.17 09:35:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 17/08/2011 09:38:22
I never said to make it exclusive to NeX, but the other stuff you said makes it sounds that you agree with me. I think that your home CQ needs to be different from every other station that you dock at, which is the crux of my point.

EDIT: the alliance banner ideas are good too, stations should have the sov banners everywhere. (better fleshed out when the rest of walking in stations is completed. But orthogonal to my point on the CQ.

PS, your name is spelled wrong. Japanese have no 'l' romanization, Haramoto-san.

Takashi Halamoto
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.17 09:51:00 - [44]
 

i call that the clue im not actually japanese, people still dont get it, and sush

but yeah i think both inside and out alliance space needs to have banners and billboards and colour pallets showing THIS IS OURS!!!!

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.17 13:16:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Takashi Halamoto
i call that the clue im not actually japanese, people still dont get it, and sush

but yeah i think both inside and out alliance space needs to have banners and billboards and colour pallets showing THIS IS OURS!!!!


But you have japanese friends or at least have been here before, as you seemed to have picked a name that is at least plausible. Not like the pathetic attempts by CCP in naming Caldari systems. (Kusomonmon? Really? You couldn't hire 1 japanese person to proof read the names? That literally means Stinky Door-Door, or Stinky Door v(^_^) as 'mon' is something only the too-cute-for-school hello kitty gaaru's say after a normal sentence.)

But I digress.

RavenNyx
Posted - 2011.08.17 13:47:00 - [46]
 

Home is where you leave your stuff, it's where you feel secure and it's where you do what you want to 'cause you paid for it with time and money... This is NOT a concept that EvE can encompass anywhere but in high-sec. Home is where stuff never change, where you always know what's up or down. That train of thought is NOT compatible with EvE Online.

A "home" in 0.0 is NEVER safe (you have even described that it is your intention to make it the exact opposite), so you will NEVER be able to feel secure, as your stuff can be destroyed by the large alliance right next door whitin a week. So obviously I cannot keep all my stuff in 0.0, I need to keep the larger part in high-sec if I know that I'm in any form of danger (which I always will be, if what you're writing is true). I need to spread out my investment if I'm in any form of contested space, and 0.0 is just that by it's very definition. The best way of making isk is to NOT loose stuff, so....

No, 0.0 will never be "home" - NPC-space is already, be it in 0.0, low- or high-sec, but never 0.0. I may live there, I may be spending 99% of my time there, and I may even feel at ease there, but it will never be "home".

Takashi Halamoto
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:02:00 - [47]
 

i disagree, i have moved home a few times but apart from shopping trips to jita and temporarily basing out of lowsec to raid [REDACTED By Razor Counter Intelligence]
i 'lived' in 0.0 for the last 3odd years maybe longer, my homes were in order

a pos in VU-WU2 (now The Spire)
the main Venom alliance station in Omist
the main TCF station in Omist,
the main TCF station in Deklein,
MH's main station of the moment (which moved twice) in Pureblind
split between UMI-KK (MM)tribute and 30- (RZR) tenal, yeah the north fell yeah i had to sell about 4bil in stuff trapped in enemy hands that id spent years collecting

but still i call 0.0 my home, i look a lowsec as piratehell and empire as teh place where tengus and skill books come from, so no, 0.0 can be a home despite the problems

HarmoniusRex
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:55:00 - [48]
 

What makes a home? Part of it is about what you don't have anywhere else. Right now, "Captain's Quarters" are there on every station you dock with. None of them are special because they all have the same quarters. So, step one... let players designate a home station (maybe one per jump clone?) where they have their quarters. Other stations get the old ship-spinning interface (you're not home so you stay in your ship). In the future you could leave the ship at a station that isn't "home" but you would go directly to the station public areas. This home becomes the location your clone is stored; you still need to go to a medical station to upgrade but "home" can be a station that doesn't have medical services.

Yes, if you die and need to upgrade your clone when you're not near a medical station, there is risk involved... perhaps mitigate that by dropping one clone level each death rather than all the way down to a starter clone.

That's "home" on stations. So what about home when you don't have a station? Others have suggested complexes and smaller versions of POSes. I heartily support that idea. Treat it just like captain's quarters on station when you're inside, but rather than living in a station, you're living in a small station module within your complex. You won't have access to most station services, but you can buy modules for some.

Buy an acceleration gate and a living module, plus offensive and defensive modules. Owner of the gate controls the access list via standing, but the gate can be hacked. Different gate sizes control what type of ship can use the gate (and this can't be hacked). Buy multiple gates for more than one "room". Within a complex room, mount automated defences (drones, missiles, guns) that are dramatically more effective when a player is "home" -- treat the home as a ship, except anchored and with basic ai. Player can evacuate in a ship if his home is destroyed or if he wants to fight in a more mobile fashion. If he does leave the home environment, he still gets support from his home's guns, just in the automated less-effective mode.

In addition to existing ship modules, it should be possible to do small-scale manufacture by buying appropriate modules, similar to POSes but much smaller scale. Limited to ship fittings or ammo, not whole ships.

It should be cheap to set up a home in "safe" alliance-held territory, but it should also be possible to set up a home in enemy territory if you don't mind spending a lot of money on stationary defenses and stealth technology.

Use the existing ship fitting skills and modules; you're basically talking about buying a ship without a warp engine. Not having the warp engine means the living space module should be cheaper than a ship of similar power -- but obviously a sitting duck.

Use the existing models from the various missions and let the player mix and match as he desires and can afford.

All of the above upgradeable -- not just cosmetically, but actual, functional upgrades. New rooms within the captain's quarters/incarna space to control purchased upgrades and defences, for example.

The stakes should be high. Scanning down and destroying a player's home should feel like a mission run if the player isn't at home -- possibly challenging, but doable. If the player is home he should have a strong home field advantage, depending of course on how much he has invested in defence.

When a player is offline, he should be able to turn his gate off completely. When online, the gate is on but hackable. Hacking attempts notify the player and optionally his alliance/corporation.

Support for cosmetic items (posters, exotic dancers). Let covert ops sneak in to steal items, including the cosmetic ones -- literally walking around inside and taking your stuff.

Modules:
* Basic living space (fit like a ship, with ship modules)
* Warp jammer
* Accel gates
* Stealth modules
* Sentry towers like missions
* Small manufacturing
* Repair/Fit

John McCreedy
Caldari
Eve Defence Force
Posted - 2011.08.17 19:19:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Lin-Young Borovskova
After reading the blog 2 things came up to my mind:

1- the already richer players in the game will be even more.

2- WH will probably become the "new" home for average players since it's the best option between time invested/isk return and aggression control

Imho the risk vs reward is a false idea since "risk" in NPC regions or controlled regions is most likely 0 even compared with high sec.

At this point instead of "encourage" (not forcing) people to move in to null will probably make the already difficult transition high/null, impossible to new players leading those 6mth 1 year char's to stop or not having other choice than live in wh's, and this makes me ask you:

The already majority of players are in high sec, in some way they already play together at the largest scale of eve and they are going to be heavily penalised in favour of the smallest part of the community, the one already richer and profiting from the end game.
Are these blogs anti high sec?
Are these suggestions supposed to separate definitively wh/high sec/low sec/null sec players? -market interactions only?
How these changes will open the end game content for new players in any easier way than it is now since they will have even less choice than today?


The majority of richest players in Eve live in High Sec, not null sec and even those that do make their riches in Empire. How many people in the Trillionaire's club made their fortune from ratting in anoms or mining in hidden belts whilst living in 0.0? Your Alliance or your Corp. can get rich in 0.0 but not an average player unless they're rampant botters. You gravely mistaken assuming there's no risk in null sec when every Empire enterance is camped and every hub has a cloaky cyno alt for a Super Carrier hot droppper and almost every night you'll have one or more small, fast moving fleet roaming your space. Null sec is full of risk, it's just got little reward when you're at the bottom of the food chain.

James Duar
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:05:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: James Duar on 17/08/2011 20:06:58
I like the idea of player buildable deadspace complexes as the idea of home, but the issue is how do you balance it?

This would perhaps be a decent role to give industrial ships (so they aren't *just* haulers). Take that absurd CPU they have, and let them fit a "deadspace expander".

Make it so the module lets them blow up a small bubble of deadspace which becomes inaccessible to anyone except the player who creates it, who access it via a "deadspace harmonic corridor" which is basically a beacon point outside the deadspace which acts like an acceleration gate.

The module would work by reconfiguring the whole industrial ship to serve as a mobile, dockable station (meaning CCP would have to make arbitrary things able to act like stations, which would help fix so many other things) capable of docking 2 sub-capital ships and holding limited cargo. Refitting services would take increasing amounts of time per module (so say, 30 minutes per module, but a charge so 2 module swaps can be done quickly before needing to wait at least 30 minutes to do it again - to allow for repairers to be used easily).

These player deadspaces would be probable and destroyable: once probed out, a ship activates a deadspace collapse which takes say, 48 hours, after which time all the items present become directly warpable and destructible. Collapsing a deadspace should lock the player out of spawning another one in that system for some amount of time (maybe 1 week) *if* it's sov claimed.

This meets "rooting them out is easy" but "losses, disruptions are easy to see coming" as well as making them scale badly - they favor the casual player and inhibit organizational use.

Because it's deadspace, you can't be bubbled into them and they're easy to pack up and move, but you also can't just spam them in a bunch of adjacent systems since a bored cov ops will know you're there and go looking to scan them down and trigger their shutdown. The sov lockout also can be used to make it impossible to create them faster then burn them, and the industrial ship requirement means people can't use them on trial alts to grief.

Black Romero
Posted - 2011.08.18 00:55:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Black Romero on 18/08/2011 01:06:04
Originally by: Noatalba Hyades
Edited by: Noatalba Hyades on 15/08/2011 16:54:04
Okay now for something completely different, or so it seems to me at last.

I've been playing (not with this char though) since 2007 and I've lived, for a while, in four different null regions. The number of regions where I had a chance to feel at home without constant pressure to fight someone the very second I logged in was: ONE.

Okay so I know that many many players live for pvp and nothing else. For those I guess this feeling will be paradise. I wouldn't have minded doing a little pvp too (I've hardly had any in all the years I've been playing). Guess why I didn't? ISK.

You can't fight if you can't afford losing something. You can't afford losing unless you can make bucks. You can't make bucks if you have to constantly join some fleet to fight some baddies.

Call me a moron or a loser or whatever you want (I know many of you will Wink ) but seriously, it's a mystery to me how those hordes of players can not only do excessive pvp in null but even be able to replenish their losses. Well unless moon mining is the source of that income. I've had that pleasure but once and just for a short time before one of the big bad alliances started to invade the place where we newcomers had just set up camp.

As of now, I'm not in null although my main char does keep training to become as good a combat pilot as he can reasonably be... at least regarding skills (experience after all can't be bought by time or ISK Cool ). I'm not in null because due to RL (gee, I in fact have a job and wife, go figure) I don't have enough time. I could log in maybe an hour or two (when lucky) a day so I would be able to join a fleet and just barely get to the action before I'd have to log out.

I'm aware of the fact that it would probably take some MAJOR overhauling of null in general, but from my personal point of view, null is something you simply can't afford unless you are able to reliably play for what feels like eight hours per day.

*off soapbox*

Okay that was me. Fire your flak now. ugh


Similar situation bro.

My two cents though - Stations in NULL are home and it is cool to see your Alliance logo on it. WH's are home - you learn the lay of the land and defend both. Both have vested interest that you can do without making EVE your RL job.

Other thoughts - CCP Greyscale - continue down the AURUM path but make it to where people can get custom ship paint for their corpies and give gifts of say custom shirts for a price and this will help with the home aspect. CCP (Despite he massive floundering of late) has the right idea with Aurum and the shop - you just have to keep it vanity and make it affordable in more scales for people to partake.
For example - I hired an artist and paid him with ISK in game to get me some custom forum signatures for all my corpies. It was awesome to give them out. Would be great if CCP offers similar items that I could buy for them to instill a sense of cohesion and home I guess. Medals are the same sort of thing. People use them. I look at Aurum as a way of paying a CCP artist for a customized artwork. It embues my hobby and game play and provides someone with a job. Fair trade to me.

Also - I think the small living thread has the best ideas so far for home. Safety and flying under the radar in null and park your ships. I would also add making Nomadic Big ships or a cheaply run POS of some sort in those proposed dead space pockets in 0.0 that people want so that you can just go home.

One more thought - Captains quarters HAD(HAVE) the potential to be home. I think you should have one you rent or whatever that is customizable otherwise you dock in a generic HOTEL room type setting. Personally I would like to see you only have one CQ. The customizable one has your medals on the shelf, clothes in the closet and artwork on the wall.

Thur Barbek
Posted - 2011.08.18 03:16:00 - [52]
 

It would be neat if in the Nex store, or for free if CCP is awesome, you could get your Corp or alliance logo somewhere on your ship or pos. Even simple things like billboards with the current sov owner's logo near the gates would go a long way making space feel more homey. Also, a patch or emblem on clothes might help them sell more.

Basically let the players show off their home.

Skah Seraph
Posted - 2011.08.18 06:24:00 - [53]
 

Yeah, being able to purchase "flavor" items for your home system via isk or aurum sounds like an enticing idea. It would be awesome to be able to raise up some statues, decorative space structures, alliance logo bulletin boards, etc. in your turf. This will create a real sense of uniqueness to each area that people will grow attached to.

Of course, these woud be vulnerable to being destroyed. I do think the idea of constellation sov leading toward increased protection should be revisted. The more time spent in your area, the less exposed your added infrastrucure as well as "fluff" structures (that make you proud to live in your space) should be to being burned down.

Rafe Zetter
Naissant
Posted - 2011.08.18 08:44:00 - [54]
 

"All homes are functionally identical. What differentiates them is simply a matter of decoration."

Ajurna Jakar
Gallente
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.18 11:49:00 - [55]
 

everything here seems to point heavily at personalisation. this seems to be the biggest weakpoint in eve. we get to own spacestations and we cant even put a flag on the front. why cant we put monuments up? why cant we erect remember the great fight of blah that happened here. let us add to the amazing history of eve and put landmarks in. they dont need to spawn rats or anything but im sure people would love to visit historic battle sites. why not make space tourism a possiblity

Shin Dari
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:47:00 - [56]
 


I do not like the idea of dragging large modules around. For example; you move your base modules in with a industrial, but where are you going to store the industrial? I prefer the true nomadic option in which these bases are ships with an alternative mode. If people want to expand their capabilities then can't we just have expansion modules be high slot modules?
If one is a small player among big ones then Fuel logistics will be near impossible. Especially for single player holdings in deep null sec. So please forget using fuel as a limitator, please use another mechanic.

Hidden hideout
Optimized for a single player, (small holding inside an asteroid/moon/planet). Hard to find and cheap. Can only be destroyed by Dreadnoughts.

Covert base
For small groups of people that want to rely on cloaking, should also be good rest/sleep stops for Covert Ops groups. They should be encouraged to keep moving. My idea is to have the cloaking tech be time limited for a specific system.

Dead Space Base
I can see a Dead space base being a capital ship that uses its excess power to generate a dead space. Easy to find but the acceleration gate leading into the base will need to be infected by a computer virus, this subversion process will take several days to complete.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.19 00:34:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 01:12:15
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 01:10:57



System Info and Station Object should be merged with the Eve-Online Wiki via the in-game browser with mod-approved/screened edits. For that matter, so should Corp and Alliance Info, but that's another matter.

Let the players write in their own words about why NOL- or HED-GP are important, an entry about New Eden's biggest battle ever when people look up LXQT or about Red Alliance's heroic defense of in C-J6MT.

This change is easy to implement, simple for players to use, free for anyone to enjoy, doesn't effect game balance at all and lets players immerse themselves in the history of the game while playing it. Think of it like the capsuleer's equivalent of the Hitchhiker's Guide.

Erik Finnegan
Gallente
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
Posted - 2011.08.19 02:35:00 - [58]
 

Home means protection. Home is where my house is, where I stay. So can we agree that home will not be for the nomadic nature of player ?

In null-sec, it seems to me from discussions like alliance protection has completely gotten rotten by the "pet" metaphor. But despite that : wouldn't alliances need to be encouraged to allow other invidividuals to be in their space ? And the individuals need to be allowed to do their thing without a tight pet-collar nor forcing on them activity within the alliances military structure.

Alliances need to get the tools to provide a fertile, "homey" ground where I build my home, or at least feel home for that matter while small anchorables are not in sight. Alliances should profit from that, of course, how else motivate them ? But indirectly. No direct money transfers to get rid of the "pet" smell.

Maybe we need a different shade of blue ? We need a residental registration office. So the system knows that you are a resident. And we need alliances signs on gates. You are entering 4W-FUZ, Population : 1,392. I like that idea.

Home comes a relative sense of protection, but that should not end at my door-step. Safety comes from an ability of looking ahead if "danger" comes. Not seeing any danger must mean: I am safe. The protection comes from a much wider legal system around me. Not because I'm in a deep space garage. Safety must be tied into alliances' control of space. Where I am at home, I need access to "news" which tell me ahead of time that the enemy get closer and the alliance loses control, thus the protection might vanish.

Alx Warlord
Posted - 2011.08.19 13:25:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Alx Warlord on 19/08/2011 13:40:26
How about making a POS Control tower capsule-dockable?

This would give them a new sense of HOME, since all the new players on EVE always ask if they can dock on a pos, and they fell unsheltered wen they get a no for answer. (oh, so a pos is not a home, just a temporary shelter?)

So, Possibly, there would be a sort of CQ inside it, with some options for POS management, gunnery, and maybe some resources for space scaning, like a probe launcher of some sort, or a directional scanner of some sort. And maybe an common area where all docked players would meet each other to have a good time...

This way, it would give us a better sensation of home, no matter where it is placed...

Lolion Reglo
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.08.20 04:00:00 - [60]
 

I don't think we should be looking at home as a station or structure as we should more so as a system. After all... if i asked you where you live what do you typically reply with first?... "oh i live in such and such CITY..." not "oh i live on 123 Manchester street." So if we start thinking like that we can get somewhere.

your own personal garage. - While i like the idea of your own personal garage out in deep space, what functionality does it have asides from holding a ship or two and a little bit of protection from a wandering gang? well that very well can be good enough to warrant such a structure. make it hold enough ammo and ships perhaps some cargo and a repair array will allow someone to personalize their space and make holding onto space more interesting. have it require astrometrics V to be able to deep space scan, to find a person garage unless they are undocked and have it have similar HP to a medium or small POS. sounds good to me.

UPGRADE THE SYSTEM!!! - i cant say this enough. home is where you find value, whether it is protection, or making isk. but you get more enjoyment out of your home if you can make isk there. therefore upgrading the isk making capacity of a system is important. the system in place in dominion was perfect for this all be it it had kinks that needed worked out and in the end it didn't work out to well. i still say we go back to that idea and make it work,

Having a capital system. - a mainstay of the old sov system. this will give people pride that they can rally around such and such system and give defensive bonuses enough to embolden people to protect their space.

Give the system defensive capabilities beyond going out to fight. - THIS IS A MUST. after all not all alliances will have enough people to face of a roaming gang so if you allow an alliance to shore up their defenses with turrets and NPC's they will not only make for more evenly matched gangs but promote small gang warfare and people to defend their system more. after all i would find it easier to fight with equal or slightly smaller numbers if i knew there were a handful of cruiser or battleship sized NPC's to help me fight. You can balance this by having an increase to the system upkeep cost. (police force costs ##,###,###isk per 2 weeks, on top of how much it costs to own the system.

Give the system a value to the player so they want to call it home, want to build it up to be an economic powerhouse, and want to defend it. I guarantee you will see more fights than station hugging if people love where they were and can realistically fight back.

I hope these ideas ive posted through a few of these boards grab hold and get implemented... because if you read all what i said across the forums it all intertwines to support itself.


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