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Decus Daga
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.31 14:44:00 - [181]
 

My idea would be to instead of removing local etc, change it to an intel channel.

Example, im sitting 200km off gate A in a SB, cloaked up, i see non-blue jump into system, ive seen what he's in, i scan with my combat probes(which ive already got sitting out) that gives me a ship-ID. - He now appears on the intel channel. His ship-shipID-name

Non-blue fly's away from the gate, to somewhere i cannot see, if i, or a blue, doesnt scan his ship-id in the next 5 or so minutes, he disappears from intel channel(but if he jumps, he doesnt disappear - unless someone is on grid when he jumps).

This keeps our intel/local, gives huge reasons for people to cover gates on their holding systems(or any system anyone wants todo some work on for that matter).


Thorian Baalnorn
Posted - 2011.08.31 19:21:00 - [182]
 

Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 31/08/2011 19:24:31
I didnt read the whole thread, so this may of been suggested ( some was taken from post in this thread). But for intel gathering in 0.0:

1) probes are placed by a covert op(Not SBs),one per system.

2) These probes last 1 hour.

3) These probes gather basic system wide intel( this could be limited to a max range of say 5 AU past the outermost planet)

4)T1 and T2 probes. T2 Probes should cost 5x more than T1.
*T1 probes provide the following information every 15 minutes: local count, alliance, corp.
*T2 probes provide the following information every 12.5 minutes: local count, alliance, corp, player, ship size( but not class so IE: Frigate,Industrial, Cruiser, etc. Furthermore, T2 and T3 cruisers would just show up as "Cruiser")

5)A skill for this type of probing that starts at about 4000 SP and has a 5x multiplier. T2 probes would be available at level 4 of this skill. Each skill level reduces how long the intervals are between intel. This would would start at the numbers in "4" above and be reduced by 2.5 minutes per level. At level 5 with a T1 probe the intel would update every 5 minutes and a T2 would update every 2.5 minutes.

6)Intel Com - This would replace the intel channel for 0.0 alliances( mostly). This would have a list of all systems that currently have intel probes by someone in your alliance. This list should be defaulted in a condensed form and then expanded according to the players interest. Region> Constellation???( we dont use this much though if 0.0 empires get smaller it may be more important)>> system>>> Alliance>>>> Corp>>>>>Player(if t2 probe)>>>>>>Ship Size(if t2 probe).

Example: I am in Z-ABC in region "Pewpew" with 4 members of my alliance and 2 members of PVPER. The intel with a T2 probe would be :
>(148)Pewpew
>(98)DD-ABC(Constellation if added)
>(7)Z-ABC
>(5)Atlas
>(5)DTHI
>Thorian Baalnorn -Battleship
>Member2 -Cruiser
>Member3 -Unknown(this person would be cloaked or in the station)
>Member4 -Industrial
>Member5 -Capital(Super Caps have their own size class of course)
>(2)PVPER
> HUNTU
>Leetpvper - Cruiser
>Leetwingman - Cruiser

As you can see each one is broke down into sub groups so you can get intel in a specific location easily. () are number of players intel is gathered on.

---------------------------------

Threat Assessment System- This is a module that is upgradable(5 levels). This module is not designed to give local intel rather it is designed to give threat Assessment. How it works:

* Anchored Structure(POS or Free Anchor?)
* Uses a 5 minute progressive Gate and Cynosural Scan(It will also detect mass log-ons so no cheating the system)
* Ignores Alliance ships.
* Gathers threat intel as follows:
-Scans number of incoming threats( non alliance ships basically) into the system in a 5 minute period be it via gate or cyno(and log ons Very Happy)
- At level 1 it will report a possible hostile threat via IntelCom, if their are more than 225 non alliance ships that enter that system in a period of 5 minutes.
- At level 5 it will report a possible hostile threat if their are more than 25 hostile ships that enter that system in a 5 minute period.

The threat on the IntelCom would look like this:
WARNING:Possible hostile threat:
Region: PewPew
System: ABC-0
Estimated Fleet Size:>75

*The estimated size would be for a level 4 TAS.

* The benefit of this is twofold: One it allows quick and easy intel gathering on upgraded systems on fleet movements. Even though it only tells you basically of high non alliance activity( It cannot distinguish between friend and foe outside of alliance). Two, it encourages smaller gang work instead of blob tactics. A small gang of say 20 can roam undetected by the system(unless you get unlucky). Non alliance blue activity can also set off the system making it useless with a lot of friends. This encourages small gang work and fleets to move and operate in small gangs.

Thorian Baalnorn
Posted - 2011.08.31 19:28:00 - [183]
 

Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 31/08/2011 19:41:19
Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 31/08/2011 19:40:54

Cont.

Now on the opposite side of the coin.

For ships we have a "scanner jammer"

*This is a mid slot module that allows a ship to become undectable by intel probes.
*This module does not work on capital or supercapitals
*This module does not work for TAS(see above) as they detect mass entering the system.
*This module is only semi effective against combat probes.
*Requires a skill (Counter Intelligence???) to use.
- This skill increases the effectiveness of the jammer against combat probes(already 100% effective against Intel probes). - This skill decreases the effectiveness of combat probes detecting your position by 10% per level while the jammer is active.
*This module makes you immune to intel probe scans while active.
*Duration:60 seconds
*Cycle time:3-5 minutes.(based on skill Counter intelligence skill)
*Only one module of this type may be fitted to a ship.

Results:

*Makes it harder to be probed.
*Makes it easier to move through hostile space undetected.
*Encourages strategy and Tactics such as moving though pipeline with this running and then "hiding" in a dead system off the pipe that isnt likely to be intel scanned often until the mod has recycled and then continuing on. Or use in station systems and other areas of extremely high traffic like chokepoints that are more than likely to have intel probes out most of the time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall the basic results of this whole system would:

1) Allow basic intel on fleet threats in systems upgraded with mod.
2) Allow a basic fast method of intel gathering that benefits the whole alliance.
3) Encourages alliances to actively obtain intel about their sov space. Leading to intel specialists.
4) Encourages smaller fleet sizes to avoid detection.
5) Encourages Strategy and tactics over "who cares we have a 500 man blob"
6) Allows small fast fleets to avoid general detection and overall allows them to be harder to track. You can jump systems faster in cruiser and smaller so you can make more jumps between the 2.5 minute intel probe intervals and a small fleet wont be detected by the TAS.
7) Give players some counter protection against attempts at gathering intel and location on them. This allows both sides to move with more impunity if they make the effort to do so.
8) Makes it easier to keep good intel on a small section of space( say 10-20 systems) as opposed to say 2-3 regions. The latter would require both expensive TAS upgrades and several people to constantly probe(which would also get expensive.)


Other Notes:

* In an ideal setting a T1 Intel probe would cost about 300k each. A T2 probe would cost about 1.5 mil.
* Intel Probes would require special launchers. These would have a cycle time of 2.5 minutes. They would have about the same PG and CPU requirement as an expanded. Only 1 of these launchers is allowed per ship. Thus best case scenerio is for one person to cover 24 systems an hour. So for full coverage of 80 systems( the size of some large regions) you would need 4 people constantly laying intel probes.
*This system would replace the current local in 0.0. Local would become like WH local.

*** Also i was thinking about having intel probes so they could be scanned down( but hard to scan) and destroyed. They would also have to be placed at least 500KM from any anchorable structure.Thus you couldnt protect them with a POSes Guns.

***** Finally, I would add addition features to the system later.After i seen how things worked and what areas could use the most improvements and any balancing.

Stan Durden
Posted - 2011.09.01 06:09:00 - [184]
 

This is not a well developed idea... But I was thinking if local did end up getting the ax, perhaps there could be a sov related tool that monitored and recorded gate traffic. It could be a way for owners to collect intel from systems they control.

I do think getting rid of local needs to be combined with a good reason for locals to come out and fight. There needs to be a good way for a roaming fleet to pick a fight. It would be hard to do if you don't even know if the station has anyone in it or not, and can't tell if any of the ships on scan are piloted. You could still gatecamp well enough without local. But you also need a way to know when you should hang around while the defenders get a fleet together so you can have a fight, if you are out on a roam.

Also collecting enough intel to make a good decision about engaging would be tough. If defenders are smart they will flood their systems with empty ships sitting at pos. So there is no way to interpret your scanner to tell if a fleet is in the next system. How would you ever know if the enemy fleet has backup? They could be sitting at the nearby planet aligned to the gate, but mixed in with all the other junk that is at the pos you can't tell from your scanner. If you can't know then it makes it way too risky to commit to a hard fight. Sure you could still take ganks, but a real fight leaves you way too vulnerable to having the enemy reinforce from the next system, or even the same system for that matter.

Darth Helmat
Posted - 2011.09.01 11:43:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Stan Durden
This is not a well developed idea... But I was thinking if local did end up getting the ax, perhaps there could be a sov related tool that monitored and recorded gate traffic. It could be a way for owners to collect intel from systems they control.



more advantage to sov holders and large alliances...

Darth Helmat
Posted - 2011.09.01 12:06:00 - [186]
 

How about deployable cc tv. These are launched and controlled from a probe launcher and can be positioned like scan probes (but also have a direction and zoom that can be controlled remotely). cc tv probes can be viewed on the telly in stations, and when WiS comes along, corps will be able to rent a room with multiple telly's, so they don't have to keep changing channel.

skills:

cc-tv: increases the number of probes in space by 1

broadband bandwidth management: increases the number of jumps over which you can view a cc-tv probes video feed by 1.

modules:

cc-tv probe: a small remote controlled war capable camera.

telly: this widescreen HD module provides a big tv screen for watching cctv probes video feeds (or youtube vids if your bored), it can be anchored near a pos or put in your (yet to be released) station operation control room.

See what I did there - I created a reason for WiS to exist Shocked





Stan Durden
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:42:00 - [187]
 

I was just thinking that if you were to add a function to Dscan that would tell if ships on scan were active or not could solve the problem I mentioned earlier.

Again the basic concept is you need to let an attacker be able to gather enough intel to make a good decision about starting a fight. You will see a dramatic drop in PvP if there is no good way to accurately gather enemy numbers. It doesn't need to be foolproof information, but it does need to be reliable enough to risk millions or billions worth of isk by deciding to take your fleet into a fight.

Decus Daga
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:53:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Stan Durden
I was just thinking that if you were to add a function to Dscan that would tell if ships on scan were active or not could solve the problem I mentioned earlier.

Again the basic concept is you need to let an attacker be able to gather enough intel to make a good decision about starting a fight. You will see a dramatic drop in PvP if there is no good way to accurately gather enemy numbers. It doesn't need to be foolproof information, but it does need to be reliable enough to risk millions or billions worth of isk by deciding to take your fleet into a fight.


Wouldnt a ship with a pod inside have its engines running, a ship empty not. Gives you a storyline usable reason to allow telling which ships are currently "active".

Stan Durden
Posted - 2011.09.01 15:47:00 - [189]
 

^^ Exactly.

Another thing I was just thinking about is maybe there should be some sort of balance to help keep pvp from becoming almost entirely cloaky. Go live in a WH and chances are you won't often fly a ship without a cloak. If you do you are taking a risk, but it is manageable because there isn't much traffic and if you know your system well you have a chance to detect threats as they come through the WH. In null with a lot more people, and a lot more traffic, I think a likely future complaint would be the "cloaky blobs." You don't have local anymore to tell who is in system. Even if you could scan active ships, your not sure what is there because it could be cloaked. You could attack a gatecamp with 5 guys on it and end up with the equivalent of a cloaky hotdrop as hundreds of ships suddenly materialize.

To combat this perhaps there could be an indication of a cloak in operation. It could be a detectable but not locatable field of energy that tells you within a certain distance, or on grid, or in system, or on scan, that there is a cloak in operation, but obviously it wouldn't tell you where it was. This again would go towards an attacker being able to accurately judge enemy numbers and therefore having the information the FC needs to commit to an attack.

The cloak and dagger stuff is fun, just be careful or it will become the only viable option.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:17:00 - [190]
 

Has Greyscale forsaken us? Sad

Here's a simple idea I'm mentioned elsewhere, but fits here nicely... simple tweak to local.

1. Cloaked ships are removed from local. When you're cloaked, you're even masking the emissions that allow local to pick you up.

2. Cloaked ships, due to the cloak, cannot see local either. You can't use local for intel while cloaked and instead need to use other means of intel gathering... dscan, probes, or flat out looking around.

3. Cynos, to prevent this mechanic from being abused, should have an activation delay applied when decloaking. For example, you cannot activate the cyno for 30 or 60 seconds after decloaking. This allows a resonable amount of time for someone to react before that carrier fleet drops on thier heads.

Just thought of this... should the "warp to" ability be taken away as well for acloaked ship... you can't warp to a cloaked vessel? Unsure on this one...

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.09.02 16:01:00 - [191]
 

You shouldn't be able to use a map to tell you where people are active. You should have to patrol your systems to know number of jumps, npc kills per hour/day, and kills/hour or day.


Havak Kouvo
Posted - 2011.09.02 16:56:00 - [192]
 

I like the idea of probes and anchorable items that provide some bits of information about parts of that system.

For example a simple probe launched by a prober ship, has a limited range of maybe the grid. is fully targetable and destructable, so a basically prepared scouter can put gaps in your intel network. The intel would be limited to the pilot that launched it.

Another item would be an anchorable item (simpler to a bubble) that you deploy. Also limited to the grid. Don't have a limit to how long they last. Are corp assets, so must be anchored to corp and someone with the roles can get a feed. The grid is limited to one per corp. Can be probed and target, but have more EHP than the probe version, so you may have to expose more of your numbers to take them out.

The intel these things provide are the same/similar to that of a D-Scan. The pilot has to refresh the screen on demand for updates, information is not 'pushed' to the player.

Luis Graca
Posted - 2011.09.02 21:52:00 - [193]
 

Edited by: Luis Graca on 02/09/2011 21:57:32
It doesn't make sense to me speaking in intel ideas when i can simple drap-and-drop a guy name a the sistem in a chat.

If the inta local is a problem why not make a delay local according to the system status EX: -1.0 = 100 seconds delay, - 0.5 = 50 seconds. hte bigger the rewards the bigger is the risk

By doing this low-sec and high-sec will still be insta local but thats kynda the ideia, on 0.0 the attacer can get target's easyer and the defender knows the enemy is somehere NEAR that sistem and there for is forced to search him.

The probe in a sistem to see the enemy is a ggod idea so it could exist to a fleet see if the hostile is in local or not without that delay but only seeing on scan

Akatenshi Xi
Amarr
Elite Shadow Society
Waterboard
Posted - 2011.09.03 18:55:00 - [194]
 

I think it would be nice to look at things on a much more grand scale, this is EVE Online after all isn't it? Let me tell you my thoughts...

I play out in null sec with Waterboard Alliance. We're blue with a major alliance and a few other alliances our size. We operate out of RA space with our own SOV out there. Go on their CTAs and we do our own things as well.

I can tell you one thing for sure, having a ''Intel Channel'' sometimes does not always work. No matter how many people you have in the Intel Channel, there is are many people who don't care about it or don't want to have it up on their screen or could care less about reporting anything. Dropping a Name, Ship Type, Location, Possible Numbers is hit and miss sometimes and is also sometimes said way later than it should have been reported.

Ya know the United States has underwater sensor networks all along the east and west coast for detection of submarines and ship movements - AND THIS IS ONLY THE 21ST CENTURY...

You would figure that way far off into the future a technologically advanced race like those found in EVE with things like ''Titans, Stargates, Jump Bridges, Cloaks, etc, etc.'' would have a way to detect people in space in a networked kind of way.

I think that alliances who are blue to each other should be able to access each others ''Intel Networks'' on the fly and they should automatically integrate together. EVE should be able to recognize that these two entities are blue with each other. I think that this could be a POS Module that you could install something like the old system scanner module or the jump bridge.

What would this do though? Pretty much what people have been explaining here. If anything but a +5 or better comes through your system whether through a stargate or through cynos, the entire network should be able to know this information. If the ship begins to move through other systems it should be able to plot a path this ship has took system to system. It shouldn't be able to give you an exact location in system where the ship is though, that just takes the fun of finding someone to shoot in the face.

But really, it should be easy, it shouldn't lag like -everything else- in eve, and it should cover the basics and then some for intel.

Darth Helmat
Posted - 2011.09.04 17:44:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Akatenshi Xi

Ya know the United States has underwater sensor networks all along the east and west coast for detection of submarines and ship movements - AND THIS IS ONLY THE 21ST CENTURY...



Does anything stop other nations deploying sensor networks across the coastline of the USA? No - only the fact that the US navy would go and blow them up if they found them!

Does the US coastal sensor network relay to every industrial and military vessel automatically? no! It goes to a command and control centre who can relay the information appropriately to deployed defensive units. There is a role here. There has to be a price to be paid for comprehensive intelligence - human effort in monitoring, human effort in maintaining it, and it should be vulnerable and have a counter (ie sensors have a range and are destructable). Simply deploying a structure in space should not provide intel about the whole system - we mustn't move from 'equal intel' for all, to sov. holder privilege - sov holders should only get the advantage that is rewarded for the ongoing time, isk, and effort they put into maintaining the defence infrastructure.

Quote:

You would figure that way far off into the future a technologically advanced race like those found in EVE with things like ''Titans, Stargates, Jump Bridges, Cloaks, etc, etc.'' would have a way to detect people in space in a networked kind of way.

I think that alliances who are blue to each other should be able to access each others ''Intel Networks'' on the fly and they should automatically integrate together. EVE should be able to recognize that these two entities are blue with each other.

What would this do though? Pretty much what people have been explaining here. If anything but a +5 or better comes through your system whether through a stargate or through cynos, the entire network should be able to know this information.



Only if you deployed the sensor network you described above, and monitor it. Its quite reasonable to deploy a widget that can identify traffic coming through a stargate, its less reasonable for that widget to detect cloakies, and have system wide omnipotence, and not be targeted by the invading force.

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.09.05 00:05:00 - [196]
 

Get rid of local allow permanent, semi permanent, and consumable type of sensor nets...that link systems together to gather intel. If a chain is broke the whole thing doesnt break, but shows a break, and near by systems lose effectiveness.

Think of them like current sonar nets in use today. They dont give pin point accuracy like a ship/sub/helicopter could do (AKA probing out) but do give information such as jumps in numbers/size of ships or cyno.

In this capacity smaller ships/fleets have an advantage. You could even add a counter like black ops ships that help spoof or jam the sensor net to allow the fleet to get further into enemy territory. Or say delay communication of stations under attack etc.

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.09.07 06:45:00 - [197]
 

Edited by: Sigras on 07/09/2011 06:52:11
I think I have an idea around like what you're talking about.

Say each system has a "nav buoy" or something like that which ships can choose to register with or not, and every 30 seconds the buoy sends the ships registered with it to all the systems next to it. the buoy also automatically broadcasts its info to every ship in the system on an instant basis like local is now.

Now every ship gets a sensor array which they can turn on or off. When you switch it on, you get automatically registered with the local nav buoy, and thus they appear in local; the advantage to turning it on is that in a certain radius around you, the sensor picks up other ships and registers them with the buoy as well, so they appear in local too. I would probably make it impossible to turn on the sensor from on grid with a POS, or when cloaked (because of "interference" IE balance).

So, if you're in a system with people all around you with their sensors on, and you look at the map, you'll see what their scanners picked up when your beacon gets the update from the beacon in that system (once every 30 seconds), and you'll get the intel from the next jump out when the adjacent system's beacon gives you that information (one 30 second cycle after it gets that info) so you see it delayed a max of one minute etc out to say 10 jumps out.

follow that? If not I can illustrate.

so now ships have a choice to make, do I turn on my sensors and hope to spot hostiles before they warp on top of me? or do I turn my sensors off and hope they dont know im here?

I might even think about something where these nav buoys could be "jammed" so that if you had a ship jamming the buoy in the system you were in, then one jamming the system you were going to, you could hide your fleet numbers.

Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2011.09.07 11:17:00 - [198]
 

All that is needed is a destructible network of deployables which add names to an intel channel if they jump into a system on the same grid as one of the deployables, and removes names if they jump out of a system on the same grid as one of the deployables.

This allows a local-like intel, across one or more systems, but which is shootable and thus disruptible, and which still allows ships to sneak in (wh/covert cyno ships appear on a grid with no deployable so are not listed).

Variations: have the channel show ship type + ID (the one you see when combat probing) instead of player names.

Ought to be simple to set up: anchor deployable, right click, select intel channel, type name of channel/join channel, ..., profit.

Darth Helmat
Posted - 2011.09.07 13:05:00 - [199]
 

Edited by: Darth Helmat on 07/09/2011 13:05:20
Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
All that is needed is a destructible network of deployables which add names to an intel channel if they jump into a system on the same grid as one of the deployables, and removes names if they jump out of a system on the same grid as one of the deployables.

This allows a local-like intel, across one or more systems, but which is shootable and thus disruptible, and which still allows ships to sneak in (wh/covert cyno ships appear on a grid with no deployable so are not listed).



"local for all" replaced with "local for residents only" AGAIN.

Darth Helmat
Posted - 2011.09.07 15:55:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Decus Daga
My idea would be to instead of removing local etc, change it to an intel channel.

Example, im sitting 200km off gate A in a SB, cloaked up, i see non-blue jump into system, ive seen what he's in, i scan with my combat probes(which ive already got sitting out) that gives me a ship-ID. - He now appears on the intel channel. His ship-shipID-name

Non-blue fly's away from the gate, to somewhere i cannot see, if i, or a blue, doesnt scan his ship-id in the next 5 or so minutes, he disappears from intel channel(but if he jumps, he doesnt disappear - unless someone is on grid when he jumps).

This keeps our intel/local, gives huge reasons for people to cover gates on their holding systems(or any system anyone wants todo some work on for that matter).



The idea of a shared list of stuff between fleet members is quite good. Forgetting Intel specifics for a moment, you can imagine this as an additional tab in ( or at least belonging to) the fleet window.

Any fleet member with appropriate privilege as set by fc/wc/sc can add stuff to it (ships they see, cans, pos, jumpgates, whatever) in the same way that you can add a bookmark from the overview.

- anchored/staionary objects are warpable to, ships aren't.
- as much information is added as the reporter knows about (ship type etc).
- the time it was added is also listed
- the fc/wc/sc can set the expiry time for non anchored items
- You can set the scope to show system/contellation/etc
- yo can set the scope to squad/wing/fleet reported objects
- If A sees/adds a ship, and it is known that it is the same pilot as an existing item, it replaces it, updating the timestamp etc, otherwise a new entry is made.
- If there is only one person in a system, and they leave the system all entries for that system are deleted.
- you can set it to manually or automatically update from the overview (automatic based on standing)
- you can manually import from the dscan
- you can manually import from probe results
- you can convert static items to bookmarks
- you can view/plot the results on the system map

This gives more advantage based on fleet size (more eyes), but its also beneficial to small gangs who can automatically see through the scouts eyes, and quickly sweep systems collating all the info in one place. It would also be useful in general, not just 0.0.







Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.09.08 09:50:00 - [201]
 

i would still like an automated system that broadcast that info as well.

Im thinking a beacon that would be a warpable object, and would broadcast the same info as you described, but to a native "local" intel channel so its not just local for the owners.

also it would be interesting if this information was viewable from multiple systems away with a delay penalty for how far away it is.

It would give you an interesting decision to make, because on the one hand, you have a beacon immediately alerting you of anyone who comes into the system, but on the other hand, it broadcasts you in local as well.

Ideally it would be hackable/disruptable as well, so the information it provided would not be 100% accurate 100% of the time.

Darth Helmat
Posted - 2011.09.08 20:03:00 - [202]
 

Edited by: Darth Helmat on 08/09/2011 20:06:19
Originally by: Sigras
i would still like an automated system that broadcast that info as well.

Im thinking a beacon that would be a warpable object, and would broadcast the same info as you described, but to a native "local" intel channel so its not just local for the owners.

also it would be interesting if this information was viewable from multiple systems away with a delay penalty for how far away it is.

It would give you an interesting decision to make, because on the one hand, you have a beacon immediately alerting you of anyone who comes into the system, but on the other hand, it broadcasts you in local as well.

Ideally it would be hackable/disruptable as well, so the information it provided would not be 100% accurate 100% of the time.


The problem with deployables is that it gives huge advantage to the people doing the deploying. For example, if you own a region of space, with your proposal (although the info is broadcast to both parties) residents would deploy on the perimeter of their space, leaving the interior carebears invisible, but getting better advance warning of an invasion fleet.

I'm not opposed to the idea of destructible intel defense networks, but they must come at a cost, both in fuel and time in proportion for the advantage given. Really though, I think the systems that are generally (not 0.0 specific) are the better ones; better fleet tools (as above), better dscan replacement/enhancement as others have proposed, and maybe at the end of list sensor networks that have a cost impact but don't provide that much detail (say a gate activity alert) and can be taken out by a frig in 30 seconds....

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.09.08 21:06:00 - [203]
 

see, im thinking something that can be jammed by a frigate running the right module, so if all you did was line your border with them, the opposing fleet would send a frigate through, see that there is a system scanner in place, warp to it because its a warpable object, and "hack" it thereby disabling it then your fleet warps in and destroys/incapacitates it and you move into the interior where there is no local for anyone except if they turn on the scanners themselves and reveal themselves

I know there could be a fleet on the gate waiting for the first frigate, but if there was a fleet on the gate, the scanner is rather superfluous.

Darth Helmat
Posted - 2011.09.08 22:15:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Sigras
see, im thinking something that can be jammed by a frigate running the right module, so if all you did was line your border with them, the opposing fleet would send a frigate through, see that there is a system scanner in place, warp to it because its a warpable object, and "hack" it thereby disabling it then your fleet warps in and destroys/incapacitates it and you move into the interior where there is no local for anyone except if they turn on the scanners themselves and reveal themselves

I know there could be a fleet on the gate waiting for the first frigate, but if there was a fleet on the gate, the scanner is rather superfluous.


so long as there is an effective counter...

I suppose ideally, there's nothing better than a false sense of security...

Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2011.09.09 14:57:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: Darth Helmat
Edited by: Darth Helmat on 07/09/2011 13:05:20
Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
All that is needed is a destructible network of deployables which add names to an intel channel if they jump into a system on the same grid as one of the deployables, and removes names if they jump out of a system on the same grid as one of the deployables.

This allows a local-like intel, across one or more systems, but which is shootable and thus disruptible, and which still allows ships to sneak in (wh/covert cyno ships appear on a grid with no deployable so are not listed).



"local for all" replaced with "local for residents only" AGAIN.



You realise these beacons would be shootable and you can anchor your own, right? Plus it is possible to get good sized gank fleets in there without showing up at all in "local" - covert cyno, wormhole etc.

Hell, you can even spoof it by jumping in ships thru gates, and out thru other means and give the locals phantom ships to chase.


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