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Blatanicus Alticus
Posted - 2011.08.23 10:48:00 - [181]
 

I don't see how you can do this without it being seen as a major threat to security. They will be used as fuel stations run by cyno alts. If they aren't big enough for that they will be useless to anyone that would want to use them. How secure can anyone be if everyone can set up a network and project their power anywhere on a moments notice? I think that the only thing you will accomplish is to add a tedious grind for alliance members trying to secure their space and make it harder for small alliances to get started.

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.08.23 10:51:00 - [182]
 

Edited by: Zey Nadar on 23/08/2011 12:29:25
Originally by: Blatanicus Alticus
I don't see how you can do this without it being seen as a major threat to security. They will be used as fuel stations run by cyno alts. If they aren't big enough for that they will be useless to anyone that would want to use them. How secure can anyone be if everyone can set up a network and project their power anywhere on a moments notice? I think that the only thing you will accomplish is to add a tedious grind for alliance members trying to secure their space and make it harder for small alliances to get started.


They can already project that power if they want. Its not like the trading limitation does much. However it does lots in completely eradicating the chance of non-blue trade.

edit: Id like to know what the "scales badly" mean in the whiteboard pic in the devblog? You mean it does that or you would want it to scale bad or what?

catinboots
Minmatar
Vintage heavy industries
Posted - 2011.08.23 12:53:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Blatanicus Alticus
I don't see how you can do this without it being seen as a major threat to security. They will be used as fuel stations run by cyno alts. If they aren't big enough for that they will be useless to anyone that would want to use them. How secure can anyone be if everyone can set up a network and project their power anywhere on a moments notice? I think that the only thing you will accomplish is to add a tedious grind for alliance members trying to secure their space and make it harder for small alliances to get started.


I can already imagine the epic whine threads about this, the afk cloaking threads will be nothing compared these threads

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.23 13:12:00 - [184]
 

Originally by: catinboots
Originally by: Blatanicus Alticus
I don't see how you can do this without it being seen as a major threat to security. They will be used as fuel stations run by cyno alts. If they aren't big enough for that they will be useless to anyone that would want to use them. How secure can anyone be if everyone can set up a network and project their power anywhere on a moments notice? I think that the only thing you will accomplish is to add a tedious grind for alliance members trying to secure their space and make it harder for small alliances to get started.


I can already imagine the epic whine threads about this, the afk cloaking threads will be nothing compared these threads

This^^

Current nullsec dwellers are too used to living in their gated communities. Letting the riff-raff in won't happen unless things are set up in such a way that they lose out bigtime if they don't.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.23 13:37:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Originally by: catinboots
Originally by: Blatanicus Alticus
I don't see how you can do this without it being seen as a major threat to security. They will be used as fuel stations run by cyno alts. If they aren't big enough for that they will be useless to anyone that would want to use them. How secure can anyone be if everyone can set up a network and project their power anywhere on a moments notice? I think that the only thing you will accomplish is to add a tedious grind for alliance members trying to secure their space and make it harder for small alliances to get started.


I can already imagine the epic whine threads about this, the afk cloaking threads will be nothing compared these threads

This^^

Current nullsec dwellers are too used to living in their gated communities. Letting the riff-raff in won't happen unless things are set up in such a way that they lose out bigtime if they don't.


Which they would if said 'riff raff' actually contributed or directly determined influence/sovereignty.

C.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:25:00 - [186]
 

I guess my last word on this. People talk about making Eve bigger. You could make Eve bigger by putting more things in each system. Shouldn't each system be a universe itself? It's easy to track somebody down in a system with only a few things in them. However when I jump into a system with a large number of stations/belts it becomes a nightmare to find somebody because there is so much clutter. More clutter = more places to hide.

1. mini wormholes to permanent dead space locations (ship mass limited locations), gates to (abandoned, ship type limited) permanent deadspace complexes people can colonize that can't be accessed by large ships (but can be camped). These areas can be scanned down and raided, but are secure in that they cannot be blobbed by super caps. Put many of these in each system.

2. Enhanced cargo containers/winnebagos/bunkers in open space that can't be scanned down. Can't be scanned down unless players are there, but can be destroyed by any ship class.

3. Scannable comets to mine, etc...

Genocide Machine
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:43:00 - [187]
 

oooo.... something like this, make it optional so you can pay the oppressors for protection, or fight back against the man

Originally by: Shasz
Brainstorm thought:

Make the smallholding folks subject to taxation of the local sov holder.

Suddenly their presence by conquering empires is desirable. Just the presence of lots of stakeholders might make it a system you want to own. You'd actually have sovereignty over something other than deadspace.

Conversely, the new sov holders could drive out the locals through over-taxation. Set the rate too high and nobody would want to live or rat there.

The tax could affect whatever fee it takes to maintain the small holding or acceleration gates, it could affect bounties / missions in the system. Specifics can be worked out...

Thur Barbek
Posted - 2011.08.23 19:12:00 - [188]
 

Edited by: Thur Barbek on 23/08/2011 19:13:34
Originally by: Cailais


Which they would if said 'riff raff' actually contributed or directly determined influence/sovereignty.

C.



How do you propose to do this? If it requires people not in the alliance to be in the systems... set X corp to blue. Proceed as normal, just with crappier communication.

If you want to make it so only neutral or less pilots effect it, welcome to the land of alts. Or this basically becomes a nerf to 0.0 as no one will comply with it.

Originally by: Genocide Machine
oooo.... something like this, make it optional so you can pay the oppressors for protection, or fight back against the man

Originally by: Shasz
Brainstorm thought:

Make the smallholding folks subject to taxation of the local sov holder.

Suddenly their presence by conquering empires is desirable. Just the presence of lots of stakeholders might make it a system you want to own. You'd actually have sovereignty over something other than deadspace.

Conversely, the new sov holders could drive out the locals through over-taxation. Set the rate too high and nobody would want to live or rat there.

The tax could affect whatever fee it takes to maintain the small holding or acceleration gates, it could affect bounties / missions in the system. Specifics can be worked out...



so basicly an ingame mechanic for renters?

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.23 19:50:00 - [189]
 

There is already a "smallholding" set-up in Eve... It's called Wormholes. The reason it works is the random access, ability to "close the door behind you" and no local intel (imho).

I *like* the idea of "smallholdings" in 0.0, but until you figure out some way to *keep* the Major Sov Holders from rofl-stomping a small-holding, why would someone go to 0.0 instead of WH's for that purpose?

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
and a compact WiS environment for w-space inhabitants

^^ - Kill this idea with fire. Douse it in gasoline and burn the *****. There is *no* reason to bring WiS to WH's.

period.


FULL STOP!


bartos100
DARK ADAMA
Terra Axiom
Posted - 2011.08.23 20:12:00 - [190]
 

the first thing i think is needed for smallholdings is something like a GSC that can only be found when the owner is sitting next to it and gets scanned down

it would need :
fitting service
storage for mod's/ammo
cheap (5-10mil)
and be rather small (+/-100m) so that they re easy to set up

a limited amount of upgrade slots that can be used for:
extra storage
limited refining/reprocessing (1 batch/cycle (cycle time something between 2-5 min))
limited production (ammo/drones for sure maybe frig/cruisers with a bigger upgrade)

the basic module would not need fuel but the upgrades would need fuel when actively used (storage being an exception)
the fuel needed would depend on what upgrades are used (ea:robotics for production) but needs to be small in size to make hauling fuel easy

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.23 21:22:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
and a compact WiS environment for w-space inhabitants

^^ - Kill this idea with fire. Douse it in gasoline and burn the *****. There is *no* reason to bring WiS to WH's.

period.


FULL STOP!


So, you're saying you are not a fan of Incarna or the full sci-fi simulator that EVE was always intended to be. Message received. Personally, I'm hoping that a few years from now people look back and wonder how we played with only spaceships.

Ad'Hakim Tahous
Posted - 2011.08.23 22:01:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
There is already a "smallholding" set-up in Eve... It's called Wormholes. The reason it works is the random access, ability to "close the door behind you" and no local intel (imho).

I *like* the idea of "smallholdings" in 0.0, but until you figure out some way to *keep* the Major Sov Holders from rofl-stomping a small-holding, why would someone go to 0.0 instead of WH's for that purpose?

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
and a compact WiS environment for w-space inhabitants

^^ - Kill this idea with fire. Douse it in gasoline and burn the *****. There is *no* reason to bring WiS to WH's.

period.


FULL STOP!




This! W-Space: The new End Game of EVE

Cregg Neir
Posted - 2011.08.23 23:35:00 - [193]
 

Edited by: Cregg Neir on 24/08/2011 00:23:39
I think it would be smart to make some kind of dynamic that allows a corp in null sec to preserve itself from complete wipeout, or at least to make complete destruction more difficult. A corp with ten poses should have difficulty defending all 10, but when reduced to 1 pos, that final pos should be very difficult to destroy. Not impossible, simply more difficult.

This could be achieved in lots of ways, so that corps would have the option to defend one pos very very well against most fleets. At present, poses are very easy to destroy in null sec, if you're willing to take the time to do it. This is trivial for the big alliances and corps, but devastating to the smallholder.

This kind of idea would help to make the risk of moving into null sec worthwhile for smaller groups and younger groups. If I knew that I could keep at least one pos alive, I would be willing to move my corp / alliance to null sec because there would be less chance that I would be wiped out.

It might be possible to create a separate class of poses for moon mining, or simply to create a moon mining unit that stands separate from a pos. One could then develop a dynamic in the game that allows corps to fight over moons without having to wage pos warfare. Corps / alliances might fight duels over moons in order to control them.

If players are to move into null sec, they need to be able to do so and stay there. This means that the dynamics that allow players constantly to evict one another from systems needs to be reconsidered. Giving players the means to create one pos that is safer and harder to destroy than others might end up encouraging more people to move into null. Giving players other reasons to fight in null than to destroy each other's poses would then create more conflict at the smaller levels.

You can't encourage smallholding in null sec without INCREASING pos safety to some degree, unless you increase player access to NPC stations in null sec. The smallholding goal will otherwise be at odds with the goal of decreasing the amount of structure-shooting that people have to do. If you make it easier to kill ALL poses, then nobody will move to null sec - unless you make provision for some other place for players to live.

The best experience I had in null sec was the era of CVA controlled Providence, when I could roam Providence with RELATIVE safety. There were always gangs roaming in Provi and there was plenty of killing, but I could go out there and play and still have some place to dock up. That is one example of stable sov-holding that actually encouraged small scale pvp and got people involved in null sec.

Zi'Boo
Posted - 2011.08.24 04:14:00 - [194]
 

I haven't gone through all the posts but I skimmed most of them, here are my thoughts:

There are couple problems with an idea like this:
- someone already mentioned that with the current detection mechanisms it's pretty much impossible to remain undetected.
- without a med bay it soon will be too much hassle to even try to live out of any structure like this (and you may as well live out of a carrier alt)
- if you decide to store any valuable stuff in a base like this, there will be someone who will come and try to take it away from you or destroy it.

However all of the goals stated by the OP can be already met with NPC 0.0, there just needs to be more of it.

You can then divide the NPC 0.0 into two groups:

- whole NPC regions, where you'd go to establish some relationships with the pirates (that's for the NPC 0.0 thread)
- small NPC pockets (couple systems or a constellation) within sov 0.0.

From the time I've spent living in fountain and delve it has worked pretty well - most of it region was sov 0.0 and had the big alliance living there, whereas the core NPC part had small groups that could easily live out of there and either stay under the radar and ninja rat or plex, or live there just to annoy and hunt the sov holders.

It worked a bit better in Delve as the NPC section is a bit more on the side, whereas the Fountain one is right in the middle, on route of several main traffic pipes, but that's good as different regions could cater to different play styles.

Couple things to make sure a NPC pocket can succeed:
- enough stations, so you don't get camped into just one.
- enough medical stations, as flying back through half a region every time you get podded gets old soon.

Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2011.08.24 04:30:00 - [195]
 

Quick and dirty fix for giving small guys a chance is simple to make cyno jammers dependent on system sov index and the size of empire you control.
In current system you need 20 000 000/day and sov 3 for a cyno jammer, how about we from that to begin from 1 mil where it gradually rises from sov 1:1mil/day to 20mil/day.
This would allow smaller alliances protection against the inevitable super blob and this would also be a return to the days of olde where you actually had to commit to conquest instead of just dropping 20supers fro the lulz and call it a day.
Ofc. you would also need to make sure that sov 5 is worth paying that 20mil/day even in crappy regions like providence. Razz

catinboots
Minmatar
Vintage heavy industries
Posted - 2011.08.24 06:27:00 - [196]
 

The more i think about this smallholding as a feature the more i am convinced it will not work
A deadspace holding unscannable will lead only to abuse , making it scanable , we all now big alliances will not tolerate it

If you want to lure small independent alliances into nullsec you need much more than just a facelift , in my opinion there are two options

Option one. The radical way , kill the current sov mechanics and kill of the large nullsec alliances
Even tho i have a serious dislike. For those alliances , it is not a good idea and would only leadsto even more outrage as last june. Rioting
Second option is a overhaul of thecurrent. Sov system
There are many systems alliances don t even use and only have a sov marker , triple or quadriupale the cost to maintain the sov in that system, introduce a rental system where this unused system can be rented out for a fixed cost, something like between the normal sov cost and 10 times the sov cost owning alliance choice

Some other ideas to make better use of systems are linking the upgrade system , you can t hve. Military upgrade lvl 5 unless you have a mining upgrade lvl 3
This will ithink force the alliances To make better use of their space and force them to give up system they don t use and give smaller alliances a fair chance to establish themselves into nullsec

These are not. My ideas , there are hundreds of good ideas floating around in these feedbackthreads

El 1974
Posted - 2011.08.24 08:24:00 - [197]
 

If we want alliances to open up 1 or several stations as open trade hubs, then perhaps all they lack are proper tools and stimulus. I never ran a station, so no idea what is possible now. But station owners should be able to set prices for using station services (broker fees, docking, perhaps even based on standings) so they can make good money for developing and protecting a trade hub.
Individuals should be able to use manufacturing and research slots from their own hangars. And more slots are needed.

2Sweet4u
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:24:00 - [198]
 

I have been playing eve for about 8 years and I can see why its going to hell in a hand basket. Because its blob vs blob now. CCP could fix this in 2 very simple moves. Do away with alliances all together and limit the number of blues and reds you can have on your corp standings list. This would make 0.0 fun again. It would also help the smaller corps finally get a piece of the pie.

Glafri
Posted - 2011.08.24 12:36:00 - [199]
 

Edited by: Glafri on 24/08/2011 12:39:17

This might tick some boxes for some of your other feedback threads, such as mining, industry, exploration, smallholding and home.

Also, I might have stolen an idea or two...


Sisters of Eve - The Nomadic Explorers Expansion


New Modules


SOE Civilian Covert Jump Drive (High Slot)
- Will only allow jumping into low/null
- Allows the ship it is fitted to to jump to a random safe spot.
- Limited one jump per day / Limited Range (think black ops)

SOE Civilian Covert Shield Generator (High Slot)
- Immobilizes ship on activation.
- Creates a Shield around the ship within which ships less than 260,000 m3 and pods cannot be scanned. Max total ship volume cloaked = total ship hanger bay.
- Cannot be activated on grid with Stations, Suns, Moons, Planets, Asteroid Fields or Gates.
- Module cycles for 7 days. Can be stopped and restarted at any time.

SOE Civilian Manufacturing Unit (Mid Slot)
- 1 or 2 Manufacturing Slots available (Ammunition / Rigs / Equipment)

SOE Civilian Refinery Unit (Mid Slot)
- Ability to refine Ore or Ice



Nomad Class vessel

Orca II (subcapital Size)

Cost to build: 600m+

Suitable for 1-2 pilots to explore the outer reaches of the galaxy. A home away from home, capable of carrying a few mining / exporation ships. With the ability to fit manufacturing and refining modules for extended trips away from high sec. Whether you setup shop in Sovereignty space with a Homestead Agreement or prefer to operate under the radar. This retooled Orca hull will live up to the needs of 1 or 2 fearless explorers.

Low Slots: 2
Mid Slots: 8
High Slots: 3

10% refinery efficiency per level
can fit clone vat bay
No Drone Bay

Increased Corporate Hanger to assist manufacturing
Increased Ship Maintenace Bay 500,000 m3
Fuel Bay Capacity 5000 m3
Covert Shield Radius 10km (max 2 ships unprobable)
Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare



Homestead Class vessel

Rorqual II (Capital Size)

Cost to build: 1.5b+

Suitable for 3-5 pilots to explore the outer reaches of the galaxy. A home away from home, capable of carrying a few mining / exporation ships. With the ability to fit manufacturing and refining modules for extended trips away from high sec. Whether you setup shop in Sovereignty space with a Homestead Agreement or prefer to operate under the radar. This retooled Rorqual hull will live up to the needs of 3 to 5 fearless explorers.

Low Slots: 3
Mid Slots: 8
High Slots: 4

10% refinery efficiency per level
can fit clone vat bay
No Drone Bay

Increased Ship Maintenace Bay 1,200,000 m3
Covert Shield Radius 15km (max 5 ships unprobable)
Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare



Ship maintenance bay and corporate hanger are accessable from space. Docking with each ship brings up a station like screen. Allows for changing Medical Station, jump cloning out etc.



Homestead Agreements & Eviction Notices

Those wishing to live a nomadic life in nullsec have the option of approaching sov holders to obtain a homestead agreement. This entitles the individual, corporation or nomadic alliance to light blue status. Docking rights etc for trade & industry.

Sov Holders would be able to flat tax all ratting at 10%

Sov Holders can break the agreement with 24hrs notice of expiry.

Sov Holders Homestead Interface displays ships in the area. They can request a Homesteaders Agreement from the pilot. Failure to accept it you can be subject to an eviction notice. This notice provides 7 days to leave sov space before your covert shield generator is deactivated (by POS module?)

Continued...

Glafri
Posted - 2011.08.24 12:38:00 - [200]
 

Sov Pros and Cons

Each Class of ship anchored in space without a homestead agreement progressively increases sov costs for the sov holder. Solo players would eventually be moved on if unwanted by sov holders. Large Caravans of nomads would provoke sov holders to response sooner, locking down systems to prevent nomads working.


Each Class of ship anchored in space with a homestead agreement progressively reduces sov costs for the sov holder. Solo players and large caravans would be welcomed. With the additional benefit of improved industry, taxable income.


General Pros

Nomads can work with or without Sov Holders permission.

Brings relatively safe small group mining, industry and exploration to low / null sec.

More people in space gives more chance to kill them.

Cloaking and relative safety would only be available when used with ships upto cruiser/battlecruiser size. Limiting the number of ships that can be cloaked prevents abuse.


General Cons

Ships can be probed and destroyed / stolen (if left unpiloted) if Covert Shield Generator is deactivated by eviction notice, lack of fuel, module deactivates after 7 days.

Ships out of the shield would become probable and put the homestead at risk of probing.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.24 12:58:00 - [201]
 

Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 24/08/2011 13:11:10
Originally by: Rees Noturana
So, you're saying you are not a fan of Incarna or the full sci-fi simulator that EVE was always intended to be.

You so FUNNY! Eve *only* started down the path to "full sci-fi simulator" about 6 years ago... Long after it was envisioned and work began. As a matter of fact, there is a thread around here somewhere (may have been saved on another forum) where the devs are commenting on the fact that if you missed a day of work, you might have missed the water cooler conversation that changed the direction from internet spaceships to fantasy swords and sorcery back to internet spaceships.

So yeah, CCP may have come up with that marketing point at some time in the past, but it was *not* always supposed to be a "full sci-fi simulator"...

EDIT: Small holdings are kewl sounding, but several issues (as has been brought up in this thread) have to be addressed. The reason WH's work is because they are limited in ways in and out, mass limits, and constantly changing location.

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.24 13:47:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 24/08/2011 13:11:10
Originally by: Rees Noturana
So, you're saying you are not a fan of Incarna or the full sci-fi simulator that EVE was always intended to be.

You so FUNNY! Eve *only* started down the path to "full sci-fi simulator" about 6 years ago... Long after it was envisioned and work began. As a matter of fact, there is a thread around here somewhere (may have been saved on another forum) where the devs are commenting on the fact that if you missed a day of work, you might have missed the water cooler conversation that changed the direction from internet spaceships to fantasy swords and sorcery back to internet spaceships.

So yeah, CCP may have come up with that marketing point at some time in the past, but it was *not* always supposed to be a "full sci-fi simulator"...

EDIT: Small holdings are kewl sounding, but several issues (as has been brought up in this thread) have to be addressed. The reason WH's work is because they are limited in ways in and out, mass limits, and constantly changing location.


Well my EVE started in 2008 so if I've been fed revisionist, water cooler created history then I apologize. Directions do change with any project but either way it looks like we are in different camps. I want both Flying-in-Space and Walking-Everywhere in the same game and I don't see any reason why we can't as long as CCP has enough devs to cover both. That is the critical issue though.

Sounds like its time to start political parties. AMBULATORS vs EGGERS!


Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.24 14:21:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: Rees Noturana
Sounds like its time to start political parties. AMBULATORS vs EGGERS!

I'm in. Besides, I think those parties (while not official) already exist! :)

Urgg Boolean
Posted - 2011.08.24 16:16:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Zenith Intaki
<snip> There should be somekind of massive 'mothership' that could serve as mobile starbase.

Not having read through all 7+ pages of posts: so far this sounds a lot like the old concept bounced around the forums about a Mothership and I like it.

I apologize in advance because I'm about to be skeptical. It looks like CCP is giving us an opportunity to have input. This is either because they truly want our input, or this gives us the illusion of participating in game development while they have no intention of ever using or adopting any of our ideas. For all we know, that hand-written flow chart of new game concepts is as far as they will take it.

Having said that, the flow of ideas in this thread by the player base is extraordinary. I applaud the player base!!! As for CCP, I'll pay more attention to what they actually do, rather than what they say.

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.24 16:56:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: Urgg Boolean
Originally by: Zenith Intaki
<snip> There should be somekind of massive 'mothership' that could serve as mobile starbase.

Not having read through all 7+ pages of posts: so far this sounds a lot like the old concept bounced around the forums about a Mothership and I like it.

I apologize in advance because I'm about to be skeptical. It looks like CCP is giving us an opportunity to have input. This is either because they truly want our input, or this gives us the illusion of participating in game development while they have no intention of ever using or adopting any of our ideas. For all we know, that hand-written flow chart of new game concepts is as far as they will take it.

Having said that, the flow of ideas in this thread by the player base is extraordinary. I applaud the player base!!! As for CCP, I'll pay more attention to what they actually do, rather than what they say.


CCP's original concept is:

Quote:

Pretty much anyone with a little seed capital (~10m ISK) should be able to establish some small, semi-permanent presence in nullsec.



While a mobile base that could be moved into position does have some appeal I think they want to make this easy, and perhaps somewhat disposable. 10m ISK tells me that they want to make this accessible to fairly young pilots without bankrupting them.

I think the concepts of nomadic home ships and fixed, easy to setup homesteads both have merit.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.24 17:39:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Cregg Neir
The best experience I had in null sec was the era of CVA controlled Providence, when I could roam Providence with RELATIVE safety. There were always gangs roaming in Provi and there was plenty of killing, but I could go out there and play and still have some place to dock up. That is one example of stable sov-holding that actually encouraged small scale pvp and got people involved in null sec.

Build it, and they will come...

Don't mean to not post with *some* content, but this seems to be a point somewhat overlooked...

vOv

Black Romero
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:54:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Glafri


This might tick some boxes for some of your other feedback threads, such as mining, industry, exploration, smallholding and home.

Also, I might have stolen an idea or two...


Sisters of Eve - The Nomadic Explorers Expansion


New Modules

Continued...


Glafri - I like your compilation post the best out of all the "Nomad/caravan" Ideas I have seen. Well thought out - dynamic.

The only thing I would challenge you to look at is how your ship dynamic would be abused (Because we know it would). Just one thing that comes to mind is that ant percentage increase would be abused. Alliances would just build a ton of these ships and cloak them to get that compound percentage. I like the ships though a lot. Just not sure about the mechanics.

The more I read nomad posts (as much as I would love to be one in 0.0) - the more I agree with other sceptics that it would be darn near impossible to balance it/make it work. Again - I am ALL FOR a Nomad feature where I pick an area of space I like and an alliance I can tolerate and just move into their territory and MAKE friends. A safe holding area like this that would let me move in and force the locals to chat or fight would be interesting. I do think it would be abused though...

My .02

For now I stick to WH's as the Small holding mechanism in EVE and I think as much as Greyscale and Team BFF would like something different for beloved 0.0 - it will have to stay that way.

I think we should stick to fixing things instead of reinventing them for now. Team BFF wouldn't you agree? Shocked

Temper Mental
Posted - 2011.08.24 22:55:00 - [208]
 

Edited by: Temper Mental on 24/08/2011 22:58:35
I like the general idea a lot. I am fond of solo play, but I would like to be more in the mix than hisec allows. CCP Greyscale says that the smallholdings would be implemented throughout Eve (hi, lo and null at least - WH?), but all of the conversation here has been about 0.0. Understandable because that is where we could derive the best payoff, but the skeptics are mostly right: the dynamic of large alliances and sov in 0.0 is well-established so that any attempt to nerf it presents heavy challenges and could easily break a very significant part of the game.

It seems to me that we could get much of the same benefits by putting a small twist on losec as part of a smallholdings implementation: enrich losec systems in proportion to the number of smallholding enterprises in those systems. Better mining, better ratting, better plexes ... better all around. No sov dynamics to tinker with - and virtually all of the suggestions offered here with respect to 0.0 are equally applicable.

Edit: This new game mechanic does not have to be universal. It could be limited to single systems with a constellation or to selected constellations within a region - perhaps through CONCORD.


TM

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
Posted - 2011.08.24 23:33:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale

The basic idea is that it should be viable for small groups of players to set up shop in quiet areas of nullsec without necessarily getting the approval of the big fish in the area (particularly if they're doing smart things like settling in space owned by an alliance in a different TZ). They'd have to keep out of the way of the "owners", but so long as they managed to do that it'd end up being far more hassle than it was worth, and cost much more than it would save, to evict them.

This requires, more than anything else, the ability to make a "safe base", which would ideally be something along the lines of a fully scalable modular starbase anchored somewhere in deepish space, where it couldn't be found unless you followed its owners home, provided it stayed small enough. This gives both a practical base of operations and a "homestead"ish feel - as you build up and customize your own little settlement, it becomes your home as well as your base.

Ideally this would also entail various tools to upgrade bits of the system in a way that again isn't really worth dealing with, maybe even down to the per-planet level (all the belts around this one planet are a bit better, or it spawns some extra anoms, or something).


Greyscale, I made it this far and then started laughing and wondering what you guys at CCP smoke.

The only possible way that this would work, is if the small holders could not be shot at. You've obviously forgotten the old days of eve when all this was tried before, and didn't work then. Back in the old days, if you didn't know where a POS was, or couldn't take it, you simply camped every gate into and out of the system and waited for either the structure to go offline, or the intruders to give up and leave. It might conceivably work if the homesteaders could cloak the structure, and it was linked via some sort of POS jump gate to highsec so they didn't jump through twenty gate ganks, since I've found that most alliances with nullsec holdings have at least enough off hours players to wipe the floor with most regular player corps, this will probably never work.

Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Posted - 2011.08.25 00:07:00 - [210]
 

Edited by: Orakkus on 25/08/2011 00:25:36
There are a lot of good ideas here.. and I'd like to steal some of them for my proposal to CCP. My proposal will be based around the Rorqual/Orca/POS combination idea thought of prior to mine.. but scaled. These ships can move through Cyno and normal jumpgates (much like an Orca). These ships will have NO offensive capability in "ship-mode", not even drones. In "ship-mode" they operate like any other ship, they can be scanned down, destroyed (though they will have a fairly decent tank), etc.

In "Outpost-mode", however, they become nearly unscanable (though they could be stumbled upon and a person with max probing skills might stumble upon the biggest one.. if he's lucky). In the "outpost-mode", they can use offensive weapons that have been installed as well as operate any industrial or covert modules. The fuel for each ship is a single fuel rod that is particular to that ship, and lasts exactly 30 days. After the fuel runs out, it registers as a container, and follows those same rules and loses its reduced ability to be scanned down. A new rod can only be installed at a starbase and cannot be carried to the Pioneer ship (with Sov changes, this will mean that every thirty days, the owner will have to move the ship out of that space, back into at least low-sec space).

The Pioneer series ships will come in 4 flavors:
Grade D- 1 person only - max 2 ships storage - 1 module - Cargo bay capacity of 30,000m3 - 5 minutes to convert from "ship-mode" to "outpost-mode"
Grade C- Up to 5 people - max 10 ships storage - 3 modules - Cargo bay capacity of 100,000m3 - 10 minutes convert.
Grade B- Up to 15 people - Max 30 ships storage - 7 modules - Cargo bay capacity of 1 million m3 - 15 minutes convert.
Grade A- Up to 25 People - Max 50 ships storage - 13 modules - Cargo bay capacity of 3 million m3 - 30 minutes to convert.

Modules would include processing modules, clone vats, refining modules, turrets, system scanners, recorders, and assembly modules. Skills to use the ships and it's features will be a combination of industrial and corporate skillsets.

One additional aspect, due to the cloaking type field that is generated during "Outpost-mode", Cloaks are inoperative within 100km of the structure.


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