open All Channels
seplocked Features and Ideas Discussion
blankseplocked Nullsec design goals feedback: Smallholding
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

Author Topic

Isabella Thresher
Fat Kitty Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.16 15:11:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Isabella Thresher on 16/08/2011 15:13:09
this one deserves a quote
Quote:

•Accessible ◦Pretty much anyone with a little seed capital (~10m ISK) should be able to establish some small, semi-permanent presence in nullsec. Not everyone wants to get involved in nullsec, but every player that feels even a slight interest but never quite takes the plunge represents a failure of design that we should fix.




+1!

i'd even be sharing a sys with a partner corp or two, no problem, but right now it is impossible to set up camp in 0.0 with less than 100 players or by renting space (also impossible for small corps)

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.08.16 15:36:00 - [62]
 

Are you talking about a solo player base or a base that can be shared with multiple people?

I had a mental image of the ability to scan for some kind of asteroid site or an acceleration gate, go in, put a structure in it (the Eve chronicles/books talk about doing this, not to mention all the missions that send people to NPC locations like this). Then be able to dock up, mess with fittings, store/switch ships, maybe build ammo or rigs. Perhaps your buddies could show up with their own structure and add it to yours, so they have their own hangar. I don't think cloning, insurance, general manufacturing or research should be available in such a structure though. I do think the hangar size should be limited.

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.16 15:46:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
None whatsoever, and we'd probably enable it globally. There are various other things in this plan which will find use in other areas of the game too, we're just focusing on the nullsec advantages for the purposes of this document Smile



Details! Your blog was way to short on them. Punkturis says you never write enough.Cool


  • What other uses? That intrigues me.

  • Are you considering these things to be the start of Starbases 2.0?

  • Are you considering making them usable both as personal and/or corporate structures?

  • How about actually docking and walking around? Being able to RP/socialize with friends via Incarna.

  • Can you explain your concept of 'deep space' a bit more.

  • Will the use of these things for infiltrating enemy space be a concern or accepted as a new tactic?

  • Do you have any concepts on how these things might remain hard to discover?



I know you are early in the design process but I'm sure you got some ideas about these things already.

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:10:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Myxx
it occurs to me that they could do this for high, low and nullsec. im not sure theres a valid game design reason for it to be relegated to nullsec only. just straight up add it to the game for all three areas, variations in size and whats allowed there for each.


None whatsoever, and we'd probably enable it globally. There are various other things in this plan which will find use in other areas of the game too, we're just focusing on the nullsec advantages for the purposes of this document Smile




This is something you definitely need to do then. It would make it viable for me and a couple others to go find a place in null/lowsec without needing a pos (I hope?) which is kind of my main reason I'm not living in wh space or nullsec anymore.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:34:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'd lean towards making it such that most alliances will just not bother (and yes AFK cloaking needs looking at), but in the event that they do decide to serve eviction notices, anything up to a week or two of warning gives the owner plenty of time to haul their **** out of the way and scarper.
I'll say this to you as well: the perceived issue of AFK cloaking only exists because of local. Without local, the effects of the AFK:ness would cease to exist. All that would be left was cloaking, which is working pretty darn well as it is.

Right now, AFK cloaking simply functions as a counter to the instant, free, omnipresent intel that local provides by making it slightly less clear whether the system is actually safe or not. This ambiguity should be built into the intel mechanic, not be something that causes people to have a fit about ship module that is doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
Posted - 2011.08.16 17:25:00 - [66]
 



This is great stuff to hear.


One thing I keep referring to in my posts is the sensation that the solar system is more than the celestial objects on your overview...


The Deep Space Starbases abilities and functions are what you really want to get into discussing in detail then.


Let's take what a POS generally has and what can transfer over.


Fuel Requirements = Logistics Requirements (Fuel Pellets FTW, really, it just makes sense. Fuel Pellet BPC = LOz, Isotopes, Robotics, and then output = Fuel pellet, it can't be that hard to make that a BP!)

Force Field = Protection

Modules = Functionality and Protection

Siege Mode = Reaction Delay

In terms of Logistics, how will these be fueled for null sec? It's easier said than done especially if you are being hunted down.

For Protection, is the force field the best or only option? Maybe some stranger should be able to rifle through your stuff if you're not around and you don't protect it correctly? The idea of a force field finds me thinking that there should be a small force field, but most of the objects should be outside of it. I.e. you have your "house" that is force field protected, so you can store some ships and such, but since you want an extended siege mechanic for these homesteaders anyways, why not put the rest out in space so that there's some risk of interaction? Just a thought - 100% safe = 100% boring.

For modules, what level of functionality will make this a viable homestead? People want to go out and live in the wild, and need to manufacture somethings, so that would really be a requirement if current outposts aren't being used... but it does compete with the Outposts functionality. I think Research should probably not be an option, but maybe it fits in with the desire to have 0.0 be a T2 manufacturing source.

What about locations for trading? If most NBSI outposts are going to be off limits, and as another astute poster mentioned you are going to want to promote enterprise, you need a way to trade out there. So you need some kind of "public" trading functionality, if you're going to go down this path.

Also, how does Incarna fit in? Can we setup a little bar in our homestead, and then dock up and get a drink, invite another local over. Maybe even setup an NPC Agent to sell items that you specialize in from that hub. Rather than setting up a homesteaders market using the regional markets, you can open up a convo with an NPC agent selling things.


In other words, maybe you can actually advertise some of these Homestead plots for public interaction and not all of them need to be hidden. Sure, they'll be bigger targets, but they can also provide value and that means someone might want to keep them around.


For the Sieging/Eviction process... I like that you want an extended delay to make sure items and things can be removed. I'm sure the sov owners will want to have a way to know that they're being removed and their functionality is also disabled.


Overall, I think that this Deep Space Starbase - DSS - needs to provide opportunities for interaction as much as it provides a safe place. This will make the exploration more interesting.


Let's say that you're out exploring, you find a signature, and you arrive at some guys homestead. Instead of blowing it up, you decide to check out his dive bar, and inside find that he happens to have some ammo for sale. You buy some ammo for your next exploration site you are planning on doing.

Alternately, you land, and you find his weapons systems are hot, and he's setup to blow anyone away that lands within 100Km.

Or you find that his storage facility wasn't properly locked, and you nab some goodies and peace out.

Giving more options for interacting with objects than just "blow it up" or not blow it up will inevitably lead to other parts of curiosity to take over.




Dr Cedric
Caldari
Orbital Industry and Research.
Posted - 2011.08.16 18:09:00 - [67]
 

I was going over some ideas in my head last night after reading the Dev Blog. One thing that I feel is very necessary for "smallholding" is the ability for a single player to it. Here is my idea:

New Ship think along the lines of Orca/Rorq. that is Deployed and becomes the mobile base. This ship would require some type of fuel to remain active, as it should produce a small force field, allow fitting services and the operation of a limited capacity cargo array. It should have a ship maintenance bay big enough to fit a ship or two (cruiser/BC), and you'd fit modules to this new ship-station to do the "upgrading" of the system (e.g. deep space probe to find smallish PvE encounters or belts or piles of trash you can salvage). It would be ideal to make these things difficult to scan down, but not impossible, and it would be advantageous for the user to be given opportunities to do "sites" mostly in deep space. This keeps the player "out of sight" for the most part.

New Mechanic that allows the new ship from above to jump, capital style, from low/high sec to a scouted null sec area. It doesn't make sense that a player would need to take a potentially expensive squatter ship through dangerous territory and lose it all before he/she even gets to the destination. I believe this fits into one of the statements made in the Dev Blog about encouraging players to get out to null and not stopping them before they can accomplish that. The idea would be that a player has to fly a cov-ops or some other such ship, fitted with a new cyno (call it a scouter's cyno for now), and once that cyno is lit, it stays in space for 1-2 hours (skills dependent?). The player then has to fly back to high/low sec, hope nobody has scanned the new cyno beacon and jump out to it. Best part: you can only leave high sec this way, not get back to high sec. The ship has a timer (96 hours perhaps?) to "spool" the jump drive. At that point you could return via normal cyno back to low-sec. In essence, you're committing yourself to this endeavor once you leave secure space.

New Mechanic allowing multiple of these mobile base ships to "link" with diminishing returns to each other. So now we have 5-10 corp mates or just contacts that are friendly, with their ship's computers linked, finding slightly better stuffs for each member to do. This doesn't scale well, or becomes much less efficient than a large corp or alliance could accomplish using POS or Outpost mechanics.

As far as defense is concerned, the station-ship (named the Whale?, yes/no?) should not be invulnerable, should be mobile (you can run away for a while if they aren't persistent in trying to find you) and should be functional as a base of operations in a limited capacity. The jump drive should allow very large jumps, and have minimal to no offensive capability in order to encourage exploration and the use of the ship for its intended purpose. Finally, it should be robust enough to stand against a small fleet or single capital attacker. The best part is that once you dock your ship, enter the Whale and log-off, the ship disappears in 15 minutes, making it a relatively safe place to live from.

The point of this idea is that 1)it allows small/single entities to make an entrance into nullsec with a smaller investment than a fully operational POS, 2) it scales rewards down in accordance with the idea that your base is in "deep space" (which has been defined as >=10AU from a celestial) and is, therefore, slightly safer than if it is in the middle of the system, 3)it allows for interaction on a small scale without requiring allied and/or corporate connections, 4) It allows a stepping stone for those entities to identify needs/opportunities in a given area and develop the capital needed to start these enterprises, 5)serves as a stepping stone between high-sec/station dwelling and POS/outpost-dwelling.

Thank you for your interest and time! Please Discuss!

Ced

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.16 18:35:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'd lean towards making it such that most alliances will just not bother (and yes AFK cloaking needs looking at), but in the event that they do decide to serve eviction notices, anything up to a week or two of warning gives the owner plenty of time to haul their **** out of the way and scarper.
I'll say this to you as well: the perceived issue of AFK cloaking only exists because of local. Without local, the effects of the AFK:ness would cease to exist. All that would be left was cloaking, which is working pretty darn well as it is.

Right now, AFK cloaking simply functions as a counter to the instant, free, omnipresent intel that local provides by making it slightly less clear whether the system is actually safe or not. This ambiguity should be built into the intel mechanic, not be something that causes people to have a fit about ship module that is doing exactly what it's supposed to do.


AFKCloaker> I'm here in my cloaky ship. Pheer me!

Repeat every hour or so, punctuated by the odd hotdrop.

Doing away with instant update local does nothing.

Doing away with local completely does away with the ability to talk to others. This is a multiplayer game, without the ability to communicate with people we haven't established a prior relasionship with we might as well be playing "Homeworld".

LightBound
Posted - 2011.08.16 19:00:00 - [69]
 

I dont quite see why some say we'd need bookmarks or a means to enter co-ordinates to place a homestead...
it should be as simple as launching the homestead from cargo, loading a beacon into your civilian scan probe
launcher, moving the "probe" to where u want the homestead and clicking deploy, since everyone can go do
the scanning tutorial, and if they cant figure it out from there they shouldnt have a homestead, much less be in 0.0

have the homestead work like the PI command centre, starting at lvl 0 and pilot skill and isk determine
what it can do, more defence/power/storage/refining/manufacturing/etc...

I'd leave research to the pos owners, unless there is a desperate need to flood the market with free 100000ME bpo's in a few months time or u have ppl train supercomputer-housing-facility V before its viable.

lvl 0 having lets call it 15% refining efficiency (+10% per lvl), used to refine feul from what ever u intend to use for feul, be it ice, (PI)minerals or scrapmetal/modules, or refining to get the raw materials to build the fuel items in a manufacturing slot...

a single manufacturing slot with its max run increased by lvl. retricted to module&ammo manufacturing,
possably adjusted by skills.

placing defences / upgrades (micro silo/refinery accelerator/solar shield regenerator/[insert awesome idea here]), well we already have the PI interface for a basic frame, launch to space, open homestead interface, move as required inside the upgradeable bubble, anchor/activate or link to homestead.

as for finding it, be it friend or foe, i'd say give it a 1m sig radius, but...
if u put a frig in it u get a -75% sig bonus to the frig, so the new homestead sig radius is (35m-75%)+1m, relatively hard to find, put a cruiser in it it goes down to -50% sig reduction and BS, well, there no hiding 500m of cold hard tritanium. this should negate the fears of it being used as a respawn point for assaults into controlled space. how well this will scale for small corp operations i'll leave to ppl with more time to ponder.

I'm also going to say it always launches for corp, acting as an audit logged container, so its not a hiding place for items "borrowed" from the corp hanger, and borrowing items from it is posting your name on the "please pod me" list...

it should show up on the system scanner or overview if its from your corp, u are its friend after all.

as for making it viable / profitable for the system owners to not kill u on sight, once upgraded to lvl 3/4 i'd say make it's bonus to you (better belts / anomalies/ whatever ) bleed over to the bonuses from the TCU in the system, so having a few active homestead gives them an extra 1/2 a pip (max) on their TCU's rating of the same type.

and that concludes my 2c worth.

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.16 19:43:00 - [70]
 

More questions and ideas...

How many properties will a pilot be able to have? Only one or perhaps one per skill level of something, like anchoring. Could I setup a more permanent high sec home where I keep my trophy gear, another in low sec where I also park a cyno alt and a third in null that I use for my home within an alliance or for null exploration for as long as it lasts?

Will a holding be able to support all the activities of an industrial pilot and replace the need for a high sec research starbase? Could I have a high sec home that I park my Orca at and run 11 each of lab and factory slots? What about reactions for polymers and boosters? How about refining? Maybe a choice of refineries between perfect and fast or large quantities.

Could a w-space industrialist create all T3 products while in unknown space by upgrading his homestead to the maximum or will starbases still be needed?

I guess the root question is will a holding be able to fully support a wealthy and independent pilot and allow them to do all they need or will they still be dependent on stations, starbases and outposts to produce their products?

With their low cost and the goal to allow young pilots to start setting up their home there will be an explosion of these in high sec and beyond. If they can show up on scans they need to be filterable. I don't want to see them expire after some time though. If i'm out of game for a few months I'd hate to have my home disappear unless it was forcibly evicted from null sec by the local war lord.

And maybe the most important question...

Large lounge with a view of space, complete with bar, barmaids, henchmen and exotic dancers?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.16 20:03:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
AFKCloaker> I'm here in my cloaky ship. Pheer me!

Repeat every hour or so
…which, of course, you can't do without local.
Quote:
Doing away with local completely does away with the ability to talk to others.
Like I said in the other thread, no — it just does away with the ability to immediately detect who else is in the same system as you are. There are roughly bajillions of other means of communication already in the game to cover that need.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.16 20:18:00 - [72]
 

Perhaps smallhold stations should indeed be modular, with defensive and capability modules that consume the same expansion slots.

That way you can have a hard nugget that doesn't do much or something that approaches the capabilities of a small POS but makes for a much softer target.

It should be all about tradeoffs, and it would be awesome if CCP set it up so that each player can choose the tradeoffs they are willing to make.

As far as "how many", why not make it one per level of the Anchoring skill?



@Tippia: responded in the other thread, it is more appropriate to the combat thread, but probably really belongs in the Intel thread.



Jokesta
Gallente
Group 2
Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.16 20:23:00 - [73]
 

I can mostly think of whati dont want the homstead to be. I mainly do not want it to resemble the current system used by POS. Basically I have no interest in where i log off or 'hang out' to be at all fidly i want to dock and have a hanger that i unload stuff in. Im totally fine with a limit on how much can be docked or how much can be stored. But i want the wa i interact with the homestead to be almost exactly the way i interact with a station.

i really like the idea of a captains quarters with a vie wover looking some nebular or a planet or asteroids.

i really like the idea that i can move into deep nullsec and set up shop tho.

Havak Kouvo
Posted - 2011.08.16 20:59:00 - [74]
 

POSs and roles, POSs and roles, POSs and roles.

POSs should be easier to setup and there should be a more comprehensive, in-game tool for POS management. Something that at least allows you to see what each POS is doing at that point in time, how much fuel is left, where it is, what's anchored and onlined at it. It should be ingame and just work, instead of the player having to find a satisfying tool to do it, which only has access to what the game can do anyway. It doesn't have to allow them to actual anchor and online stuff from half a galaxy away, but at least see if they need to make a run for supplies in the next few days. Also, the ability to queue things to anchor and online, PLEASE!

Roles. Corporate and Alliance roles are a mess. The corporate manager needs to be re-done to make it... usable. And alliances need access to basic things like alliance wallets and alliance roles. The executor should be able to create alliance directors, setup basic roles to access these wallets and pay sov bills. It doesn't have to be much, but at the very least, the executor should be able to change who the current executor is without having to coordinate all the corps to vote for the new executor, especially if the alliance is pretty much setup as a dictatorship. The corps should still be able to call for a vote to change the executor, but the executor should have a few roles to make being it worth while.

These two things are crucial for any small corp or alliance to make it. Make it easier for them to do the things they need to do like setup POSs and manage roles between corps.


James Arget
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.08.16 21:31:00 - [75]
 

Well, whatever you come up with, consider your competition. W-space.

I live in a wormhole, where I can control a system with only 5-10 people online at a given time. Yes, we get camped in/out sometimes, but far more often we're in control, and project in power into our static wormhole. I can't imagine being able to do that in any kind of nullsec, because you can't be a ninja forever, and if some of the big boys are bored, they are more than able to drop fleets/caps on us.

The mechanic that keeps w-space like this, with a number of small groups each staking their claim, is the mass limits; it is not the lack of local, as much as that helps. We set up our campsite in a cave with one small entrance, doing that in nullsec would like setting up camp on train tracks.

Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.08.16 22:39:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Holy One on 16/08/2011 22:44:02

Increased presence in low and null sec requires some ship balancing to bring in 'joe average'. Right now some t3's can insta lock and insta gank p much anything without 10k of buffer. Drams are silly. Blockade runners are pretty much entirely redundant. Jump freighters are silly expensive. Cloaky transports don't hold enough fuel/pos parts etc etc etc.

As things stand most people end up spending six months training loads of superflous skills to get a carrier. Which then becomes nothing more than a jump capable iteron v. Which is ghey.

Havak Kouvo
Posted - 2011.08.17 01:22:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Holy One
Edited by: Holy One on 16/08/2011 22:44:02

Increased presence in low and null sec requires some ship balancing to bring in 'joe average'. Right now some t3's can insta lock and insta gank p much anything without 10k of buffer. Drams are silly. Blockade runners are pretty much entirely redundant. Jump freighters are silly expensive. Cloaky transports don't hold enough fuel/pos parts etc etc etc.

As things stand most people end up spending six months training loads of superflous skills to get a carrier. Which then becomes nothing more than a jump capable iteron v. Which is ghey.


Partially agree. Increase the capacity of all transports/industrials, keeping the current ratio but making blockade runners more capable, and other transports more useful.

A new orca like transport, mini-freighter with decent cargo and good alignment time. I'm all for requiring a team to escort supplies, but they shouldn't have to wait an hour on a gate while the damn thing aligns.

Hansipoo
Posted - 2011.08.17 04:16:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Bilaz
Edited by: Bilaz on 16/08/2011 11:35:36

Plus i cant see any decent owner who would allow some mices eat his cheese while he is sleeping. and now one can safely run hostile anomalies while owners (who pay for sov and such) rest, while having some hidden poses to refit and store stuff.




If people cared about mice that much we would have exterminated them already, and yet they live on. That's because mice, while annoying don't really justify they immense effort to erradicate them, unless they make it so you can't use your house. That's why it's smallholding. Don't create too much trouble, and you can grab the crumbs while the homeowner isn't looking. However, once you become a certain size, the benefit of removing you is enough to justify the cost in isk and effort.

Petra Sparkle
Posted - 2011.08.17 09:02:00 - [79]
 

Hi

Two things that spring to mind re smallholding

You mention the need for a low-sec haven, and the need for self-sufficiency in WH/Exploration,
could not both of these be met by the provision of a 'Caravan' like structure towable but anchorable when required.
Perhaps cloakable or of very small sig with some minor repair services available.

You could also make it ultra-realistic if it blocks traffic whilst moving lol
( seriously, you could have it block up the warp gate it's using for ages!)

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 13:14:00 - [80]
 

Heck, why not just make all capital ships anchorable?

They can't use any offensive, projected, or boosting systems when anchored (as they can't be piloted) but it functions as a higher level of siege mode for defense.

If it takes an hour to anchor one there is a risk involved on par with Orca jetcanning while they are being anchored, but once in place they should take a significant effort to budge. Of course local law enforcement rules would apply.

Then capital ships specifically designed for this use can be released and you have the foundation for both fixed and nomadic smallholding.

CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2011.08.17 13:34:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Jokesta
I can mostly think of whati dont want the homstead to be. I mainly do not want it to resemble the current system used by POS. Basically I have no interest in where i log off or 'hang out' to be at all fidly i want to dock and have a hanger that i unload stuff in. Im totally fine with a limit on how much can be docked or how much can be stored. But i want the wa i interact with the homestead to be almost exactly the way i interact with a station.


Yup, that's always been one of my issues with starbases - because of the ability to be bumped and having to make sure I don't start moving by accident and so on, I never feel totally safe inside a starbase. There's always a feeling of "if I go AFK will I still be here when I'm back?". Dockability is highly desirable.

Amaya Ishii
Posted - 2011.08.17 13:40:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Amaya Ishii on 17/08/2011 14:30:09
Originally by: CCP Greyscale

This requires, more than anything else, the ability to make a "safe base", which would ideally be something along the lines of a fully scalable modular starbase anchored somewhere in deepish space, where it couldn't be found unless you followed its owners home, provided it stayed small enough. This gives both a practical base of operations and a "homestead"ish feel - as you build up and customize your own little settlement, it becomes your home as well as your base.



Slap an EVE-themed Minecraft clone on top of this idea, and you, sir, will have yourself an instant way of making every casual player very, very happy.

Seriously, Miner Wars are already moving in this direction by introducing modular architecture and prefab modules that can be used to build stations, ships, etc. Speaking of which, you should probably buy the Miner Wars team while they're still small; having made DUST 514, you already know how to integrate other games into EVE proper, and you might use Miner Wars as an alternative mining mechanic (mine the old way, and you will work slower; mine the new way, and you will work faster), and also to appease those who demand old-school space combat.

Originally by: James Arget

I live in a wormhole, where I can control a system with only 5-10 people online at a given time. Yes, we get camped in/out sometimes, but far more often we're in control, and project in power into our static wormhole. I can't imagine being able to do that in any kind of nullsec, because you can't be a ninja forever, and if some of the big boys are bored, they are more than able to drop fleets/caps on us.

The mechanic that keeps w-space like this, with a number of small groups each staking their claim, is the mass limits; it is not the lack of local, as much as that helps. We set up our campsite in a cave with one small entrance, doing that in nullsec would like setting up camp on train tracks.



Based on this post (and on a previous suggestion of using acceleration gates in the context of smallholding), I would propose placing smallhold bases in deadspace pockets; the acceleration gates that lead to them should have per-ship and per-day mass restrictions enabled, so that anything heavier than a cruiser won't be able to get through. This would allow you to a) make smallhold bases invulnerable to POS bashing with BS fleets and such, b) make smallhold bases useless both to alliances and botrunners (un-scannable safe spots!), and, finally, to c) fine-tune the null-sec PvE content ("PvE in nullsec should cater to as many classes of ship as we can think up interesting scenarios for") — if you're using a smallhold base, you will have to fly, say, a cruiser, and if you're flying a cruiser, you will be obviously limited to certain types of PvE content.

Julian Bean Delphiki
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:08:00 - [83]
 

I love the stuff i'm hearing, esp the accel gate "base" i guess you would call it. This would solve a lot of my issues with null sec and why i never go there anymore, seeing as i used to be part of a large alliance to mine and rat, but the CTA's every hour were getting old so i left, and now, null sec is not a friendly place for a solo player.

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:49:00 - [84]
 

It's probably not hard to notice but the smallholding is definitely my favorite concept of this dev blog. I think it has the potential to radically change how people approach the sandbox. More flexibility is given to the single pilot to operate where and how they want to. An alliance may need to appease the solo pilot more because they won't have the power to simply kick them from a corp and lock them out of their outpost. New alliances may form around trade and mutual defense agreements between the locals. It could be kind of like the old west where new towns would pop up for trade between the locals.

Another section is about defining a home for yourself and this is one option that really lends itself to the smallholding. It literally becomes your home. I think its important that it has character to it. Today's starbase is just a tower, with blocks and a bubble in space. Fine, but it looks like every other tower of the same faction. We need our homestead to have more interest than that, which is why I keep coming back to the old school deadspace idea. Even if there is no accel gate to control access there needs to be visual interest. We should have to look for our perfect home and exploration is the way to do it.

I should be able to choose between a clean and modern looking Gallente mansion or a warm and pieced together Minmatar mining asteroid. The Amarr could look like a gleaming gold estate or cathedral. The Caldari could have a cold, corporate look. Perhaps you can find blueprints for faction homesteads too. Maybe they have different capabilities but they most certainly would have a different appearance, at least for the core home design. As much as I don't like the current NeX store pricing, this is exactly the kind of bling item people would spend real money on. This means more than the latest pair of boots or odd monocle thing. Don't rage on me for saying that. I don't want to see anything hit the NeX that isn't just bling but if anything belongs in the store it would be a mansion blueprint.

There should be bits of asteroids, debris or gas clouds around for more visual interest. Even better would be having the option to stick modules on as we see fit. Silos, labs and other add-ons may have one standard across the factions. Some modules could just be for walking around. Perhaps domed gardens, pleasure hubs (dancers please), maybe a massive corporate command center for your minions to come kneel before your might.

We are demigods roaming the skies. When we return home it should feel like we're returning to our estate. When I visit a friend's house to prepare to go run anomalies together or trade that latest loot you found it should feel like I'm at someone else's house. Your wealth should definitely be applicable to your home design. It should be clear if the pilot is young and just getting started or has amassed a fortune.

The Incarna aspect is definitely one part of it. The ability to have covert meetings and hand off less than legal items would be cool. But its also part of coming home. Maybe, at some point you'll even have meetings go bad and you can send someone back to their clone vat and take their ship that they parked in your garage. Or the other way around...

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:57:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 17/08/2011 15:01:51
Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 17/08/2011 15:01:41
Originally by: Isabella Thresher
i'd even be sharing a sys with a partner corp or two, no problem, but right now it is impossible to set up camp in 0.0 with less than 100 players or by renting space (also impossible for small corps)


So, you want your own piece of space, but you don't want to fight for it, and you don't want to pay for it. What else do you suggest as a price for the space? It can't be as simple as CCP handing out space to anyone who manages to press one button.

Also, in one beat you say you don't mind working with other corps, and in the next you say that it's hard for small corps? Well, why not start working together with other small corps then.

Thur Barbek
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:14:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 17/08/2011 15:01:51
Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 17/08/2011 15:01:41
Originally by: Isabella Thresher
i'd even be sharing a sys with a partner corp or two, no problem, but right now it is impossible to set up camp in 0.0 with less than 100 players or by renting space (also impossible for small corps)


So, you want your own piece of space, but you don't want to fight for it, and you don't want to pay for it. What else do you suggest as a price for the space? It can't be as simple as CCP handing out space to anyone who manages to press one button.

Also, in one beat you say you don't mind working with other corps, and in the next you say that it's hard for small corps? Well, why not start working together with other small corps then.


This is my issue with most of the people complaining. They say they want to experience 0.0 but only if it's handed to them on a silver platter.

Also for solo or small corps, there exists NPC 0.0. This space allows you to adjust and maybe get together with other small groups. From there your on the path to owning your own systems.

If you don't believe this, try looking up the history of the major alliances who dominate at the moment. You can also look at the exact same type of alliances in the past, who were thought to be invincible, who don't exist anymore today.

Every single player has the same chance and opportunity as any other player. Eve is a MMO, MULTIPLAYER. To access endgame stuff, just like every other MMO, some form of teamwork will be required.

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:47:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Rees Noturana on 17/08/2011 16:47:29
It's interesting to see this conversation turn toward alliances and our experiences with them. I enjoyed my time with alliances but felt I could not contribute as they needed me to contribute. They needed my help but real life did not give me the freedom to act as they needed me to. Personally, I'm not looking for 0.0 to be handed to me on a silver platter.

I want to be able to exist on the fringes, to watch as major fleets roll by to inflict billions of ISK of damage on each other and bring solar systems to a grinding halt with the sheer weight of their gravity fields. Maybe I'll pick through whatever wreckage is left behind. I'm totally fine with being that weird old man living in his cabin far from the warmth of the sun that you sometimes spot on d-scan. If you choose to hunt me down that's fine too. You rack up a few kills and I get to buy some new ships. I'll do my best with whatever creature comforts I can install in my home and do without for those that I can't.

What the smallholdings can do is provide an alternate lifestyle in null sec. It's a giant sandbox but currently there is mostly one method of play out there. There are a few solo pilots out there now but mostly space is controlled by alliances. It'll be nice to seem so new options in the null sec sandbox and a few new characters to populate it.

Kotami
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:19:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Thur Barbek

This is my issue with most of the people complaining. They say they want to experience 0.0 but only if it's handed to them on a silver platter.


This is where I think you're wrong. Just because an individual or corp doesn't want to play by your rules, that should not automatically exclude them creating successful - albeit small scale - enterprises in nullsec.

If anything, said individuals and corps would be taking a greater risk by establishing a presence in nullsec without the explicit approval of the local hegemony. They would have to live "off the grid" and be able to relocate without attracting too much attention.

It would be hard for anyone to argue such a lifestyle is being "handed 0.0 on a silver platter"?

Thur Barbek
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:42:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Kotami
Originally by: Thur Barbek

This is my issue with most of the people complaining. They say they want to experience 0.0 but only if it's handed to them on a silver platter.


This is where I think you're wrong. Just because an individual or corp doesn't want to play by your rules, that should not automatically exclude them creating successful - albeit small scale - enterprises in nullsec.

If anything, said individuals and corps would be taking a greater risk by establishing a presence in nullsec without the explicit approval of the local hegemony. They would have to live "off the grid" and be able to relocate without attracting too much attention.

It would be hard for anyone to argue such a lifestyle is being "handed 0.0 on a silver platter"?


If you read the rest of my post, you'll note that I said 0.0 NPC space is perfect for smaller corps. As for everyone playing by "my" rules, you are free to invade me and change them at anytime. Again, in my post i mention how alliances rise and fall, due to the new alliances not liking the old alliance's rules.

If you read a lot of the posts on the forums at the moment, you'll see that people want to live in 0.0 without any risk. This is possible if you join X alliance and goto deep blue space. To do this you have to play by that alliances rules. But they don't like these rules, so instead of getting a group of likeminded people together to take their own space, they complain on the forums that life is unfair to them.

And the the guy posting above you, there is a way to do what you described already. Fit a cloak and drop a container in a safespot. You can now not appear on D-scan when cloaked, and have a mini-base on the outskirts of a system. I will admit that this is not an ideal living system and that CCP could put in mechanics to help this. The problem is people will use this to grief if it's too easy to do.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:50:00 - [90]
 

If you plant acorns you will always get oak trees from them.

If you want grass you need to plant grass seed.

Mechanical sovereignty is the acorn that grows empires.

CCP has said they want to grow grass, so something that isn't mechanical sovereignty is needed.

The people who have been benefitting from the current sov system certainly have enough assets by now to adapt to whatever comes next, I'll shed no tears on their behalf.


Pages: first : previous : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only