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CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2011.08.15 10:52:00 - [1]
 

This set of threads exist to collect feedback for the separate parts of the devblog "Nullsec Development: Design Goals", which can be found here.


This thread is about: NPC NULLSEC


Please read the blog and give specific feedback on this area of the blog. The more precise, reasoned and comprehensive you can be, the better we can utilize your feedback Smile

Royaldo
Gallente
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.08.15 11:07:00 - [2]
 

It always seemed wierd to me that for instance you farm sansha all day long and then when you are tired, dock at 1 of their stations. Make those standings mean something.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2011.08.15 11:20:00 - [3]
 

One thing I feel that should be addressed is that the rats in any NPC region are always of the regional owner. Would it not be a more effective tool to have the rats be somewhat random groups of the owner's enemies?

Additionally, while some of the rats would be of the owner's faction could aggression be dictated by standing?

I think these two thoughts, in conjunction, would create a significant change in the feel for players who invest time in Null NPC regions.

Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.08.15 11:21:00 - [4]
 

I'd like to suggest a discouragement of any form of
ownership of systems in NPC 0.0.

I have seen medium to large corps trying to hold systems and chase others out of them. I would like NPC 0.0 to be a place where solo and small corp players can cut their teeth on the realities and mechanics of 0.0.

Once you are in a larger corp, you should be moving into normal 0.0 and capturing space, not bullying people to little purpose.

Jindy
Posted - 2011.08.15 11:45:00 - [5]
 

So long as it doesn't get overrun/swarmed by larger corps and farmed. The design goals look well thought out. I look forward to seeing this idea evolve. :-)

John McCreedy
Caldari
Eve Defence Force
Posted - 2011.08.15 11:48:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Sir Substance
I'd like to suggest a discouragement of any form of
ownership of systems in NPC 0.0.

I have seen medium to large corps trying to hold systems and chase others out of them. I would like NPC 0.0 to be a place where solo and small corp players can cut their teeth on the realities and mechanics of 0.0.

Once you are in a larger corp, you should be moving into normal 0.0 and capturing space, not bullying people to little purpose.

I agree and the best NPC regions should still be worse than the worst conquerable regions or there's no reason to make an investment in to conquerable areas. There should just be enough resources to support coprorations/alliances up to a certain level before you then look to conquer space. Player progression should be High sec to Low sec to NPC Nullsec to Conquerable Nulsec.

Amsterdam Conversations
Posted - 2011.08.15 11:59:00 - [7]
 

I really like what has been said there in that part of the blog.

NPC region appearance:
I'm not at all an RP-player or someone who cares about lore. But yeah, the NPC relation should be a lot more apparent. The major RP problem here for me is, that pirate NPC stations don't have their own station models. Pirate station models already exist to some degree, mostly in missions. I think that for instance Stain would look a hell lot more interesting if it had those spikey stations. If Blood stations had the Blood paintjob over the Amarr station models. Serpentis with deep black station models.

Hell, even paint the stargates in pirate NPC colors! I'm sure everyone would then notice what region he was in, even if he didn't know what system/region he was in.

NPC region player capacities:
One of the major issues for me.
Especially the Great Wildlands need a lot more stations. The major thing that's wrong with all the other NPC 0.0 stations is the fact that a felt 90% of them have no cloning bays, which render them useless as a base of operations.

NPC regions are the greatest thing for small corporations/alliances to take part in everyday 0.0 warfare. But the lack of stations with basic station services does not allow many different corporations/alliances to live in those parts of space. Many corporations from failcascaded alliances take up the space and kick out any new players coming from empire trying to do their first baby steps in 0.0.

NPC region true security:
Big issue. In all the non-pirate NPC regions making good ISK is practically impossible. Not only do the systems not have -1.00 true security, they also have some of the worst truesec in all of EVE (ORE, Thukker, Syndicate). Boost the true securities to make ratting possible for at least some more people. Also, none of the good high-end ores spawn in non-pirate NPC 0.0. Plexing shouldn't be the only way to make ISK in NPC space. Alternatively, introduce soloable plexes, maybe.

Lack of remote NPC regions:
NPC regions are all tightly attached to empire space, making roams into deep 0.0 a really long trip and hassle. At least some NPC systems (as small as a constellation for instance) should be introduced to the remote 0.0 sov regions to allow smaller entities to play with the big alliances.

Furthermore, the drone regions lack a very important NPC region - drone space completely lacks any sort of PVP coming from the outside, since the amount of travel time involved kills off any effort that someone might want to take.

Standings:
Simple point - most people who come from high sec to have their starts in 0.0 will enter those parts of space with terrible standings towards the pirate NPCs, completely disallowing them to make use of pirate agents. There's no good way to repair standings in a good, semi-fast way. This should be addressed, imo.

These are my major issues with current NPC 0.0.

fairimear
Gallente
The Sp00Ks
Posted - 2011.08.15 12:20:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: John McCreedy
Originally by: Sir Substance
I'd like to suggest a discouragement of any form of
ownership of systems in NPC 0.0.

I have seen medium to large corps trying to hold systems and chase others out of them. I would like NPC 0.0 to be a place where solo and small corp players can cut their teeth on the realities and mechanics of 0.0.

Once you are in a larger corp, you should be moving into normal 0.0 and capturing space, not bullying people to little purpose.

I agree and the best NPC regions should still be worse than the worst conquerable regions or there's no reason to make an investment in to conquerable areas. There should just be enough resources to support coprorations/alliances up to a certain level before you then look to conquer space. Player progression should be High sec to Low sec to NPC Nullsec to Conquerable Nulsec.



No.
Conq space should offer different reward to faction space.
Like it already does it should cater to the industrial side of medium to large player groups where faction should cater to the small scale groups.
It should not be that conq space is always better because that then leads to forcing smaller groups to play with bigger groups/become bigger.
Faction space should be where corps of 5-20 live.

In line with the blog those corps can either work with the faction and get benefits like faction capital from mission lp. And The ability to run a pos unhindered. Or they should be able to fight the faction. With rewards for such being officer loot (killing a officer seriously effects your corps standing to the faction) and NPC fleets attacking player poses.

Level 4 missions should be twice as good as empire level 4's. (they are not far off this now tbh) And level 5 missions should be npc ordering their supporter players to help siege poses belonging to corps who attack the faction.

To counter large groups of players NPC should scale standings to corps/alliances the bigger they get. The bigger the harder you have to work to defend your poses and keep your members from damaging your faction standings. Killing pilots - to the faction should reward you with LP. and vise versa killing pilots pro to a faction should reward LP with any faction your + to but is a opponent to the pirate faction.


There should be no ABC ores in faction space. The Benefits of conq space should be different and aimed at different player groups.

A perfect example of the problem is STAIN. There you have a Pirate region where a large alliance lives. They push out smaller corps. They can't be removed as they keep assets in NPC stations and they hold all high ends moons with no risk of loss)
At the same time they farm belts (with bots I add) they farm missions. and in general abuse the benefits. Well having no risk.


Conq should hold the benefits for industrialisation on a capital scale.
Should offer a grunt income for being a grunt in a large alliance. You should not be given the reward of faction 00 when you have 50-60 friends to back you up.
You should earn more than lowsec or empire but at a fairly stable rate that represents your path in EVE. If you want to be a mindless cog in a alliance you should earn the isk to cover that lifestyle. If you then get a bit adventurous and go off on your own or with a friend or to and explore some random system and do some exploration sites you should have a modest boost to your grunt income.

Then benefits should be awarded to people in alliance who show incentives. Finding and running a hard exploration should give your corp bonuses to industry aspects. like a 10% build time for the next 100 jobs. Or a real rare one should give you maybe 25% less build cost to titan construction. This way showing initiative makes you valuable to your corp/alliance and thus raises your grunt income

Karia Sur
Posted - 2011.08.15 12:32:00 - [9]
 

If you want more people to venture into npc nullsec to do missions etc. remove the ability to camp/bubble gates 24/7. Im not saying remove the ability from sov nullsec, just from npc null.

John Cant
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.15 12:34:00 - [10]
 

TL;DR:- Standing = sec. status.
-------------

when running one of the epic mission arcs, the thing that struck me most about the NPC space was that whilst the stations were all owned by Pirate factions, this did not translate to system security in the same way as High-sec has.

Surely if (e.g.) the Angels own vast tracts of space which are open to outsiders, the views of the faction to the capsuleer would determine how they are treated by the NPCs?

I've flown past gates which had NPC BS and cruiser fleets stationed nearby, but I was just as likely to be attacked as anyone else irrespective of my faction standing.

yes, they do not have CONCORD out there to police the systems but surely the factions would do their own thing akin to this?

Why is the NPC "nullsec" any different than empire Highsec?

Without knowledge of how complex this would be to put in place, is it feasible for the standing you have with a faction to act as a modifier to the security status of the system in how the NPC faction deals with you? say you have +8.0 Angel standing and someone with 0 standing attacks you, is it unrealistic to think that the locals would jump in concord style to assist? of course they wouldn't have the same firepower or capabilities, and it also opens up the possibility of farming NPC's by using bait ships etc, but this should hopefully be regulatable in some way.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.15 12:57:00 - [11]
 

Let standing play a big role.

- Low: You get to dock but have no access to services.
- Normal: You can access everything as well as erect towers.
- High: You get discounts, allowed to open an office and "special" missions to protect the owners assets. Currently this would be limited to being sent to X system to disrupt anti-owner mission running.

Collective Admin: Hmmmmm, sounds devious. Voting system for a pirate controlled area could either create the first ever all-blue environment in that space or become sheer carnage .. no idea how to push it towards the latter though without smashing PF/RP.

ThisIsntMyMain
Posted - 2011.08.15 14:12:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: ThisIsntMyMain on 15/08/2011 14:15:12
My PvP corp lived in NPC space for about 6 months before moving on to player controlled 0.0 again. It was enormously good fun. I always felt the biggest problem with NPC null sec was that there wasn't enough of it.

* NPC standings should mean something.
- It makes no sense to have -10 standings to Sansha but be able to dock anywhere in Stain and buy a monocle.
- It makes no sense to have +10 standings to Sansha but be shot at by the rats on the LGK gate.

* If standings confer a benefit on residents there is more incentive to set up a home. Once you have a home there is more incentive to defend it. Once someone has something worth defending, it's worth shooting at.

* Sansha (or whoever runs the place) should get p****d when hordes of miners abuse their standings and spend 23.5 hours a day mining ice like they never sleep. Sansha should send his new ships with sleeper AI to discuss mining rights with them. Abusing privileges like that should seriously lower standings as well.

* Using mechanisms like standings requirements and variations in NPC rat abilities could be used to control numbers of people in a system. Want to spread PvE players out a bit? Make the rats tougher - slowly over a few hours or days, without increasing bounties. Want them back, make the rats easier and the chance of an officer drop higher.

* NPC space is and should be a place where smaller, well-organized corps should be able to make a home. The more smaller corps there are, the more smaller corps will shoot at each other. There are no jump bridges, SBU's TCU's or pesky Sov structures to shoot either so a Blob is not required to get stuff done.

* Logistics is the biggest difference between Lo Sec and NPC 0.0. For example, parts of Stain are so far removed from Empire that it is a major effort to get there and the nearest clone station is 20+ jumps. There are dead end systems with a very low chance of a PvP roam coming to look for you. All it needs is a rorqual with a clone vat bay (better yet a POS with a clone vat bay) so you can get home when you get podded, a simple tweak to the jump clone limits i.e. more than once per day, and a jump freighter to make it really quite attractive if the industry incentives are right. Encourage areas like this.

TL;DR;

You don't need to make major game changes to get NPC space to work.
- More NPC Space - much more - a long way from empire.
- Make standings affect docking rights and rat aggression.
- Reduce the time between clone jumps based on infomorph psychology skill.
- Allow Clone Vat bays on a POS.
- Implement your 0.0 industry plans.
- Make the space valuable and Stand back and watch the fun as people start shooting each other again.


Dwindlehop
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.08.15 14:29:00 - [13]
 

One playstyle which currently makes its home in NPC nullsec is the small to medium PVP alliance running "small combat" operations. These alliances actively go looking for fights when they log in, and are willing to spend time and effort to find good targets of opportunity. They are not interested in spending time and effort on industry, sovereignty mechanics or politics. They just want to blow stuff up.

The way I read the "Targeted" bullet makes it clear you think these alliances should not be NPC nullsec. The "small combat" bullet makes it sound like you think these alliances should continue to exist in nullsec. Do I have the intent correct? If so, I would note that current game mechanics do not support the nomad lifestyle you seem to want to force on "small combat" alliances. Carriers, motherships, and titans all require a player to log in frequently and in your timezone in order to become a base of operations. We need a nomadic base which can be accessed across all time-zones without a player who must be online constantly. The nomad base shouldn't be tied to any industry/manufacturing like POS are; it should really only be for PvP activities. It could require significant investment, but it would also need the capability to retreat rather than be blown up when a large space alliance gets tired of being raided.

Ty Delaney
Gallente
New Earth Planetary Expeditions
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:10:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Ty Delaney on 15/08/2011 15:11:23
Originally by: Shar Tegral
One thing I feel that should be addressed is that the rats in any NPC region are always of the regional owner.



Indeed. I spend time in Curse, and alternate between working for Angel Cartel agents and... going ratting and shooting their soldiers? What?

Doesn't make any damned sense. It's like going to Sinq Laison and fighting Fed Navy rats in the asteroid belts. NPCs rats in NPC nullsec should NOT (or should only rarely) be the same faction as the controlling faction. Ideally, the rats should be directly opposed to the controlling faction -- Sansha rats in Curse, for example.

Do that, and then make faction standings actually matter in terms of what services you can access in stations.

Then... improve the services actually available in stations. :p

realdognose
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:11:00 - [15]
 

Really like the idea to get benefits from the native citizen of npc nullsec, if standing is good.

But then PLEASE give us a way to fix broken faction standing more efficent than farming lvl1 Missions
with a 80M SP Char Cool

(My faction standing is -9.8 - would be a ****ton of lvl-1-storyline missions to fix that)

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:20:00 - [16]
 

I'd like to cast my vote for making standings matter as well.

Why can Amarr militia dock at Minmatar militia stations?

How can I be -9.0 to Serpentis but use their stations in Fountain?

There just has to be a way to fix standings or dock and run missions at their fringe stations.

Berentais
Gallente
Operations and Development Group
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:35:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Rees Noturana

Why can Amarr militia dock at Minmatar militia stations?



I have a legitimate answer to this.

I was podded while in amarr FW way back when before I knew that you could change your respawn system. I ended up in Cistuvaert with a new clone. Now, what would happen if I couldn't dock in Cistuvaert yet my clone was there?

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:36:00 - [18]
 

Maybe null-sec belt NPCs should alternate between navy and pirate patrols. If you decide to kill the navy patrols for their nice faction loot you won't be welcome in their empire anymore but you can 'rat up' your standings with the local pirates to get access to their stations.

If the pirates patrol high sec why don't the navies patrol low and null sec?

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:41:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Berentais
Originally by: Rees Noturana

Why can Amarr militia dock at Minmatar militia stations?



I have a legitimate answer to this.

I was podded while in amarr FW way back when before I knew that you could change your respawn system. I ended up in Cistuvaert with a new clone. Now, what would happen if I couldn't dock in Cistuvaert yet my clone was there?


Outpost owners can already force you clone contracts to default to somewhere else. If you join the militia and have a death clone in a competing station just have it default to one of the militia logistics stations of your faction.

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
Posted - 2011.08.15 16:21:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Bloodpetal on 15/08/2011 17:58:04

On the matter of null sec agents being the best, I think that using much more In Space Agents in Null sec for various corporations, even Hi Sec Ones is very viable - although it does cause the issue of blowing each other up to get to that agent.


In other words, don't make all those agents Pirates - not everyone wants to be an NPC Pirate, but that doesn't mean that Republic Fleet has no interest out there, or whatever.


To expand into areas of discussion outside of the current technology, but into an expanding part of EVE Technology, I think another possibility for null sec missions, and even hi-sec, is more of a "mission board" tool.


Imagine you're walking around Incarna and you walk up to a Mission Board in a Pirate NPC system - you can see missions from Republic Fleet, Amarr navy, Guristas, etc. Also provide an option for those who dont want Incarna to interact with such...

You can associate the mission with an Agent in Hi Sec specifically - so it's a kind of remote mission being done in null sec by a real agent.

Alternately, provide some small time pirate missions in Hi Sec to lure people out to Null Sec pirate agents. Use the Establishments "black market" to provide this NPC content - you have to go off grid since clearly Republic Fleet would never let Angel Cartel openly allow missions to be fed to hi sec. This could also apply to players who want to run Republic Fleet missions in Angel Cartel space to have to go "off grid" to operate with their goody two-shoes agents in pirate space.


The challenge is balancing this so players don't only run these 'off-grid missions'.


I'd say make them limited in quantity and in appearance. These missions don't come around all the time or in volume.


In terms of Asymmetry and "missions anywhere", you don't want symmetry where you can get missions for different corporations wherever you feel like. Where the missions appear matter - Guristas aren't interested in Minmatar space, at least not often. I'm sure you can use the standings already designated to generate some kind of statistical chance of these missions appearing in some places. Very Rarely you can get a Gurista mission in Minmatar space for an agent who needs some work done out there.


The overall idea of the above is that providing a variety of missions in the same area promotes exploring different places...

The missions themselves should not necessarily be more profitable, but designed to give players an opportunity to do something different, learn about a different part of EVE, and then make some connections, literally and find a reason to go out to Pirate space or have opportunities to use their well-established connections in places they may not have thought they could have used them before.



Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.08.15 16:33:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Bloodpetal

In other words, don't make all those agents Pirates - not everyone wants to be an NPC Pirate, but that doesn't mean that Republic Fleet has no interest out there, or whatever.

To expand into areas of discussion outside of the current technology, but into an expanding part of EVE Technology, I think another possibility for null sec missions, and even hi-sec, is more of a "mission board" tool.

Imagine you're walking around Incarna and you walk up to a Mission Board in a Pirate NPC system - you can see missions from Republic Fleet, Amarr navy, Guristas, etc. Also provide an option for those who dont want Incarna to interact with such...

Alternately, provide some small time pirate missions in Hi Sec to lure people out to Null Sec pirate agents. Use the Establishments "black market" to provide this NPC content - you have to go off grid since clearly Republic Fleet would never let Angel Cartel openly allow missions to be fed to hi sec. This could also apply to players who want to run Republic Fleet missions in Angel Cartel space to have to go "off grid" to operate with their goody two-shoes agents in pirate space.

I'm sure the missions themselves should not necessarily be more profitable, but designed to give players an opportunity to do something different, learn about a different part of EVE, and then make some connections, literally and find a reason to go out to Pirate space or have opportunities to use their well-established connections in places they may not have thought they could have used them before.



Bloodpetal has some great ideas here.

CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2011.08.15 16:49:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
One thing I feel that should be addressed is that the rats in any NPC region are always of the regional owner. Would it not be a more effective tool to have the rats be somewhat random groups of the owner's enemies?

Additionally, while some of the rats would be of the owner's faction could aggression be dictated by standing?

I think these two thoughts, in conjunction, would create a significant change in the feel for players who invest time in Null NPC regions.



Yeah, the fact that you go out and shoot the owners is a bit odd. Also pretty much everything to do with standings in these areas is silly, from aggression to docking rights to being unable to repair standings. It'd all need fixing Smile

Originally by: Sir Substance
I'd like to suggest a discouragement of any form of
ownership of systems in NPC 0.0.

I have seen medium to large corps trying to hold systems and chase others out of them. I would like NPC 0.0 to be a place where solo and small corp players can cut their teeth on the realities and mechanics of 0.0.

Once you are in a larger corp, you should be moving into normal 0.0 and capturing space, not bullying people to little purpose.


Yup.

Originally by: Amsterdam Conversations
NPC region player capacities:
One of the major issues for me.
Especially the Great Wildlands need a lot more stations. The major thing that's wrong with all the other NPC 0.0 stations is the fact that a felt 90% of them have no cloning bays, which render them useless as a base of operations.

NPC regions are the greatest thing for small corporations/alliances to take part in everyday 0.0 warfare. But the lack of stations with basic station services does not allow many different corporations/alliances to live in those parts of space. Many corporations from failcascaded alliances take up the space and kick out any new players coming from empire trying to do their first baby steps in 0.0.



This in particular is also silly.

MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.08.15 16:52:00 - [23]
 

I have pretty much lived in null sec my entire eve life... half in 0.0 half in npc... for me if you want to make npc space more interesting to live then, each npc home space should be different with different requirements...

Npc null sec should be just like empire space just without concord security... (there should be roaming gangs of npc's protecting thier space and thier engagment should be based on standings... if i have good standings they should not shoot at me but if i have bad standings they should) so someone who has -10 concord standings would find not only a home but also npc protection in npc null sec)

Basically blood raider and sansha have differnt styles and goals in the game and thier space should relect these differences...

Example:
I could be living in syndicate and be working for concord and would go out and kill syndicate pirates and as a result gain concord standing and LP...

or i could be working directly for the syndicate and kill regular faction navy ships atempting to controll the space...

I would also like it if i am working for Angel cartel i could be sent to Sansha space to do a sepcial mission to get nice rewards (someone mention epic pirate missions arcs?)

Basically what i want for NPC null sec is the feeling that you are in a big Alliance(whithout having to be in one) where what you do impacts and is important to the goals of said NPC pirate faction...

Zagrem
Posted - 2011.08.15 17:04:00 - [24]
 

Just add centrys oh gates and stations, which will shoot according to standings. And pirate npc in belts should do the same. It looks ridiculous, when you got max standings with, for example, sansha, and their ships are still shooting at you.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2011.08.15 17:11:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Yeah, the fact that you go out and shoot the owners is a bit odd. Also pretty much everything to do with standings in these areas is silly, from aggression to docking rights to being unable to repair standings. It'd all need fixing Smile
I just summed up my thought into those two questions. Using them as a basis for brainstorming you can really expand outward. Especially if you make standings, as many have suggested, have impact. Other reward + consequences: Killing an officer locks you out of stations for a week. And I mean a week logged on, not just a week.

But, just to reiterate, the NPC owners in null sec have little to zero impact within their own space. They are doubly victimized in the process of being Owner and prey in the same space. No one who visits... who invades their space has to accommodate them much in any regard.

Amsterdam Conversations
Posted - 2011.08.15 17:43:00 - [26]
 

While I think it would make sense, it would be wrong to have standings affect rights on NPC stations in a way that locks players out of them.

Like I said before, the majority of players coming down to 0.0 from high/low sec are coming with terrible pirate standings due to the empire missions they have run to acquire a good backup amount to live in 0.0 for a while. So -10 standings are not uncommon.

There should be no serious drawbacks that effectively kick players out of their homes just because of bad standings. The best solution I could think of would be increasing repair, reprocessing, building and cloning facility cost. Other than that having to pay ISK to dock. Nothing terribly much, let's say 75k ISK to dock with -10 standings. I like this idea very much actually, it's like paying a ransom to them to not get killed by whatever is waiting outside of the station.

Rat NPCs shooting you while having +5 standings with them is just silly, true.

Valerie Valate
Amarr
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Posted - 2011.08.15 17:59:00 - [27]
 

I have the standings for 100% refine in the blood raider stations, all done through lvl1 missions. I went out there early on, taking a few blueprints, to make my own mission ships and so on.

There are a number of problems I have run into:

Courier missions are daft, making the distribution agents for Blood raiders rather pointless.
The reason they are daft is the large number of jumps, for a tiny reward, making the risk/reward ratio well out.

Decline/Fail penalties for missions. Because of the environment of 0.0, these penalties pose a far bigger problem than they do for highsec missions. Say I get offered a mission I don't want to do, because it wants me to go too many jumps. I decline it, then receive a similarly unwanted mission. I cannot decline without taking a standings hit, unless I wait 4 hours. In those 4 hours, there is very little else I can do in space. Exploration rats, complex rats, belt rats, all belong to the Blood raiders, so I don't want to be shooting at them. If I go mining, I may run into a warpscrambler rat, destruction of which would again result in a standing penalty.

There's a lot of ways to lose standings to the Blood Raiders faction, and only 1 way to raise them, which is storyline missions, which require 16 completed missions. And then you can be landed with a storyline you don't want to do, such as a courier one.


There is a thing that can be done. Way back, CCP Dropbear or someone mentioned having a Blood Raider epic arc written, but not game-designed. Implement that epic arc. That would give a way for people to restore standings, to improve them, to add to the variety of things to do in Blood Raider space, etc.

There are Blood Raider station models, unique ones, that you sometimes see in highsec missions. These could be used to replace some or all of the existing Blood Raider stations, to make the space look different.

More cloning facilities, and possibly slightly less standing required to have a jump clone installed, would be a good thing too.

Sub Prime
Posted - 2011.08.15 18:41:00 - [28]
 

Personally I don't think there's a massive problem with NPC nullsec as is. In the nullsec where I've spent a decent amount of time (>1.5 yrs in or around Venal and Stain) it's never struck me as being some inpenetrable alliance or corp force in control.

It has the smaller alliances and corps there and has plenty of small scale pvp. Agreed that the sansha ratting etc combined with the ability to dock in Sansha stations for example isn't exactly immersive in the storyline, but I'd rather the basics get sorted than too much time being spent on dealing with a massive change to how it works. Unlike sov space, NPC space actually works pretty damned well so I'd hate for changes to take place that might totally screw it up.

One thing that really does need to be sorted out before work gets done on NPC or Sov space is we need to know what exactly is the score with say officer spawns and the difference between spawn chance in say -.20 and -1.0 systems. too much is left in the air and in a situation like this when you're asking for input in potential massive change, we do need to know some of the ways things work.

Elistar XI
Posted - 2011.08.15 19:22:00 - [29]
 

I think it's ridiculous that you live in guristas NPC space, you go to the belt, kill their officer and then dock at their station 30 secs later!

Lets make it more gangsta
I like to think of NPC space as similar to a gang hood. they set the rules there and you don't get to mess with them!

And most gangs have rules in their territory. a friend of mine just came from Brazil and told me how some Favellas are safer than police held areas!

Live by the rules of the brotherhood
So I suggest that some factions -not all, depending on lore- have such rules that if you're a resident member then you don't get to shoot any other resident members. they should have gangs like navy police patrolling around!

So Guristas like money, they'd be interested in keeping trade safe in their space. Sanshas are just manics so they don't care at all. blood raiders will care only if you have very good standings.


They help those who help them
Standings should matter as well -by that I mean a reworked corp standing.
So if you just came and some non-resident attacks you then they don't give a damn. but if you have awesome standings with them then they will send a gang to help you if you're attacked in their space.
Their help also depends on standings. so if you have +1 -and I am talking purely random numbers- then they send 2-3 frigs, +5 and they send 3 BS, 3 cruiser and 3 frigs to support you.

This will make it important for corps to invest in their relations with the owners and will also balance their weakness against bigger entities which will have to take into account the help from the NPCs!

This is just a thought: consider that they might be interested in buying things from players, which would be a source of income for the players. although the effect on this on the market should be studied or mitigated by limiting the volume they are willing to buy.

Rrama Ratamnim
Posted - 2011.08.15 19:37:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Rrama Ratamnim on 15/08/2011 19:43:50
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Let standing play a big role.

- Low: You get to dock but have no access to services.
- Normal: You can access everything as well as erect towers.
- High: You get discounts, allowed to open an office and "special" missions to protect the owners assets. Currently this would be limited to being sent to X system to disrupt anti-owner mission running.

Collective Admin: Hmmmmm, sounds devious. Voting system for a pirate controlled area could either create the first ever all-blue environment in that space or become sheer carnage .. no idea how to push it towards the latter though without smashing PF/RP.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hirana said it all :)

Well in addition to NPC nullsec needing the voting system to have the pirates deploy new stations, and perhaps donation pools for the sansha / whatever npc, to install new facilities .... vote for new cloning facility in system X wins as the next new facility because it has the most votes... your CORP standing with the NPC however is kinda ****ty, so guess what they require you to donate 60% of the cost for the project... while the other corps that hve better rating et to put lower amounts ....

NPC deployment options via player donations to the NPC rats or via running special mining/delivery missions for the rats, that eventually builds up to a vote for where the rats will build a new station in their soverignty! ... Although guess what, now your corp, and the other corps that voted for that have to help the NPC's defend there station while its loaded and built :) Otherwise all those missions run and donations your corp made go up in flames when DRF decides to smack NPC space...

Perhaps Highsec specialty agents could give fleets of the NPC's enemy nation a mission to destroy the station before its finished building for epic LP and ISK, enough that the players that get said mission could fleet up with there highsec/lowsec agents so say the agent gives 20 people the mission to destroy the sansha station thats building in the next 72 hours, those 20 people get their corps and go attack, and end up in NPC Nullsec fighting against resident NPC corps to destroy the station...

if the highsec runners win they get major level 5 style LP and cash maybe even more, but if the nullsec pilots win they get standings bump for there NPC rat landlords as well as a new station to live in.


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