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Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.15 18:11:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Jon Taggart on 15/08/2011 18:15:18
Would making minerals more lucrative and exclusive be all that's necessary to persuade people to partake in the most boring activity in the game?

I don't think so.

The core mechanics of mining need to be completely revamped. There needs to be a system that fluctuates based on individual player performance and dedication.

Most importantly, it needs to be interesting and fun.

Mining is one of the "musts" you listed in the initial blog, but if you make your musts fun, they won't feel like "musts" anymore.

Originally by: CCP Greyscale

Nothing, solid, no. I know this will sound crazy to some of you, but mining's currently filling a pretty decent niche by not being exciting. Most importantly, it's something that gives you an excuse to sit around chatting to people without leaving you destitute. People who like action have missions and PvP and so on; mining doesn't work for those people and doesn't need to be changed so that it does.


When a Dev has to ask players what activities they play while mining to pass the time, something is wrong!

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
That's not to say that there aren't ways we could improve it, but (for example) adding a minigame where you have to focus on the screen is probably not going to appeal to the people who actually mine.


Make it optional. More options is more opportunity for fun.

Thomas Turnpoint
Posted - 2011.08.15 18:44:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Servilia Junii
Edited by: Servilia Junii on 15/08/2011 15:48:26
Edited by: Servilia Junii on 15/08/2011 15:31:46
Originally by: Thomas Turnpoint
stuff


wh's are, in fact, null sec. Big surprise, i know. (OMGNOLOCALITSNOTNULLSEC!NERFNERFNERF!) shut it. Wh's have sleepers, null sec has The Maze.


Do please search the forums and find the location wherein I have stated that I think something should be "nerfed" in regards to wormholes.
Personally I like the idea of no local, at all, in any sec level.
Do you actually live in wh-space, or are you trying to place yourself at the same level as wh-dwellers by claiming that null and wh-space are the same?

Threads regarding the removal of ABC ores from wh-space have plenty of descriptions by wh-dwellers who state the factual differences in what it takes to mine in 0.0 and wh-space. No, I won't find the links to said threads, you wouldn't read them anyway.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.15 18:49:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Ok, so here's the thing about wormhole space: it doesn't need mining as a reward type. All the other stuff you can get out of sleeper sites is more than enough to make w-space viable as an area of the game, with the sorts of activities we were hoping to cater for with it. Further, having miners sitting around in sites (and/or warping off starbases) doesn't really add a whole lot to the overall dynamic. The only thing it's really achieving is giving people a pretty safe place to mine high-ends and make a lot of money.
Either you don’t know what you’re talking about, which is concerning, or you and I are talking about two different kinds of WH. Low end WH sleeper sites do not have profit enough to attract any number of people to the WH’s on the merit of the sleeper sites alone. It is the combination of activities, ABC ores included, which draw people. Even with things as they currently stand there aren’t that many people in WH’s. You’re suggesting a degradation of WH’s will not affect the WH population negatively.

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Nullsec on the other hand benefits a lot from having mining ops around - they add a lot to the overall ecosystem. As it stands though it seems to be the case that minerals from wormholes are depressing the prices of high-ends and making it not really that profitable to mine them in nullsec. Given this, finding ways to stop people mining high-ends in wormholes to sell on the market is a good thing for us.
It seems to be the case? In other words you have no numbers to back up your speculation? No numbers to present to your customers in spite of a large number of requests for just such numbers? You’re just guessing?!


Originally by: CCP Greyscale
That said, wormholes do need smallish amounts of high-ends for on-site construction. This is something we'd prefer to maintain, as we like a bit of self-sufficiency. The problem is supplying them in a way such that organized groups can still get enough to build, without allowing people to sit in C2s all day mining ABCs. One of the things we're looking at in this regard is ensuring there are high-end rocks inside combat sites, so that if you want your high-ends for construction you can have the barges roll in along with the looters and salvagers once sites are cleared, but you need to be continually clearing combat sites to keep your miners busy.
Really. That’s what happens in C2’s, is it? Miners just sit around all day, every day mining ABC ores in safety. That’s really remarkable. I’m sure it will come as a great surprise to those that actually engage in WH mining.

Small wonder that you guys at CCP can come up with suggestions like these when you don’t even “seem” to investigate before you start making plans.

-Windjammer

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2011.08.15 18:54:00 - [64]
 

removal of ice from highsec is a bad idea, in my opinion.

more tities morertities
Posted - 2011.08.15 19:24:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: more tities morertities on 15/08/2011 19:24:04
Ice mining out of high sec is the worst thing they can do.

If you have poss in empire the price for the fuel will go up dramaticly or not even being sold in high sec.
The prices for building ships and mods will go up then as well.
At the end the prices will be that high that people cannt affort it and then a lot of people will drop playing EVE.

CCP sorry but you are making a big mistake with doing this for those that are mining in high sec.

I think it would be fun if everybody would stop mining for 2 weeks in empire and you will see the same effect.
Less building , prices will go up.

My 2 cents.

Zirse
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.08.15 19:25:00 - [66]
 

Its too bad nobody takes Windjammer seriously.

...

Ah wait, no it isn't.

The WHers were whining about losing their ABC's needed for in-site construction, and now they have confirmation from CCP that they want them to remain. This should really be the end of the story. Unless of course, WHers are indeed selling ABC in quantity as CCP have suggested.

Heathyy
Posted - 2011.08.15 19:25:00 - [67]
 

Removing ice entirely from high sec would cause a crash in market prices for macks, EVERYONE that mines ice moves onto low end minerals in hulks.. meh gl with that...

Geezelbub
Gallente
Barely Illegal
Posted - 2011.08.15 19:26:00 - [68]
 

Wow...and I have to limit my reply to just mining? Like Mining has no effect on production and all forms of Industry? On PvE and PvP??? Like Null Sec Alliances don't already have a LOCK on the moon goo that all T-2 comes from?

So CCP's solution to all the problems in these related fields to is give the rest of the best to the Alliances in Null-Sec?

1. All ABC's to Null-Sec- Wrong, at least keep them in WH's and how about throwing out an occaisional exploration site in .5 sec with something better than Hemo?
And since you are "balancing", go ahead and relocate ALL the low end minerals to high sec. Only fair, right?

2. All Ice to Null-Sec- Again, I hope that includes WH's, since I will be completely unable to do WHAT I ENJOY IN THE GAME which is T-2 Invention and Production. It's barely profitable now because of the Alliance lock on the raw materials for T-2 components. You might as well kill it all the way, those poor Alliances must really need the isk.

3. Don't forget to give them special Alliance only Cloaked mega-miners. Yep, then they can AFK make Billions while planning their dates at Fanfest with their Dev boyfriends.

The game has gotten prettier in the last few years, WH's were a great addition but the Dev's really seem bent on wiping out anyone who doesn't wanna play with the big alliances.

A really simplistic, fail approach to just one subset of the Eve economic problems. Just the fact that you want replies divided into neat little subsections shows me that you really don't know how your game works, outside of your favorite Alliance that is.

Learath
Posted - 2011.08.15 19:28:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale

Ok, so here's the thing about wormhole space: it doesn't need mining as a reward type. All the other stuff you can get out of sleeper sites is more than enough to make w-space viable as an area of the game, with the sorts of activities we were hoping to cater for with it. Further, having miners sitting around in sites (and/or warping off starbases) doesn't really add a whole lot to the overall dynamic. The only thing it's really achieving is giving people a pretty safe place to mine high-ends and make a lot of money.


You desperately need to check a WH corp's killboard. *ANY* wh corp's killboard.
Also, rotfl "mining as a reward", it's not a reward in WH space. It's a desperate attempt to reduce the total dependance on finding a HS hole every day. It generally fails anyway. Anyway, if you remove ABC from all WH and all Ice from HS I submit you should also remove all missions over l2, to make sure the rewards are balanced, IE as close to 0 as possible.

Rykuss
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.15 19:33:00 - [70]
 

When you have to take from one group of players to give to another group of players, you've pretty much run out of ideas. Stop scooping the sand out of my box and leaving me with cat ****. Most suggestions aren't about making mining "fun", they're about making mining easier. Automated mining? Really? Laughing Speaking of lazy, you want the low end minerals and products that come from ice? Quit looking down your nose at the low end ores and ice fields like it's beneath you and mine them. They're out there and if you don't have enough to sustain you, invade your damn neighbor or *gasp* trade with them. Nerfing high sec isn't going to drive us out there to be your POS fueling, ship building *****.

The people spouting this risk vs reward crap are the same ones fielding twenty-five billion isk fleets on their alts making more in one day of incursion running than I do in six weeks of mining. As it is now, we're the joke of eve and for good reason. Why bother sitting there protecting lolminers when you can run missions/incursions and get a metric **** ton of isk in the form of bounties, loot to reprocess for minerals for sale and LP to convert to assets for sale. You could figure salvage into this equation also but we all know "pro" mission runners don't bother with it. It would slow down their isk printing t3/pirate faction BS machines.

I enjoy mining and industry and make due with the meager amount of isk I get for choosing this path. What I see constantly in this community is those who have their cake and eat it too want my cake and they want the devs to hand it to them. You want to make mining more lucrative, then nerf the hell out of loot drops. You want minerals? Fine, buy them from the guys and gals who spent all damn day mining them. We actually had to work for our standing seeing as how we've trained into other areas to shoot those stupid red boxes to get standing to refine them.

Ok, so there's no risk involved so I shouldn't be rewarded. That's fine but why should you get to skip this boring profession entirely by getting minerals you didn't mine? Minerals artificially injected into the economy via rat spawns, I might add. Where's the rage about that? It benefits people that don't want to mine, that's why. That sucker that placed his products on the market under mineral value, go buy that up and melt it if you want minerals without having to mine. Instead of trying to force everyone to play your way, why don't you try figuring out why your way of playing doesn't appeal to everyone. Barring that, seek psychological help.

If you don't want to continue to develop a sandbox anymore, perhaps you should remove all aspects of industry, exploration, trading and give resource injections every fifteen minutes with NPC sold ships/modules so people can have endless risk free pvp. Then you can properly lable EVE Online a PvP game and drop the silly sandbox, player driven economy parts from developement. It would save you a lot of headache and money seeing as you'd need to less people to work on the game. I wouldn't stick around for this of course but I imagine tons of other people that hate miners and carebears would flock to the game. I'm sure they'd drop tons of cash in the Nex store for gold ammo too. Wink

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:06:00 - [71]
 

Removing high sec ice, would kill a majority of the manufacturing / research economy. People use high sec towers because they want to research bpo's they also mine their own ice from high sec. If you removed it there, you put a majority of the bpo/bpc/manufacturing sector to rely on 0.0 people for their resources. WHICH I can guarantee you, they will not sell to high sec cept for some horrendous value.

WHAT you need to do is buff 0.0 ice, Example
Blue ice yields 300 isotopes
Thick blue ice yields 350 isotopes.

If 0.0 is higher risk, there isn't a higher reward out there for ice. 0.0 Ice should yield at least a 50% better payout especially with the poor refineries out there.
Ex.
Thick blue ice should yield 450 isotopes for 0.0 mining rather than 350.

Better yet here is an idea for ice.

Highsec - base line - 300 isotopes per unit
low sec - 25% better - 375 isotopes per unit
0.0 - 50% better - 450 isotopes per unit.

This makes a better benefit for 0.0 miners and low sec miners, and leaves high sec unchanged so people wont complain**.

** Note on complaining. People will still complain anyway.

Liz Laser
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:07:00 - [72]
 

Why exactly does CCP and the CSM seem to want null-sec to be so self sufficient that they don't have to interact with High-Sec (except maybe to sell their excess moon-goo)?

I'm currently in a null sec alliance, and yet I still object to such an EASY button.

As long as you have high, low and null sec, they each need a reason to exist and a reason to interact with each other.


El Atreyu
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:10:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: El Atreyu on 30/08/2011 18:40:22
Does this thread deliver?

Linda Shadowborn
Gallente
Dark Steel Industries
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:39:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Liz Laser
Why exactly does CCP and the CSM seem to want null-sec to be so self sufficient that they don't have to interact with High-Sec (except maybe to sell their excess moon-goo)?

I'm currently in a null sec alliance, and yet I still object to such an EASY button.

As long as you have high, low and null sec, they each need a reason to exist and a reason to interact with each other.




in deed, they talk a lot about the back and fourth between empire and 0.0 but with these changes its more.. fourth then back. If goods only flow one way there is something.. odd, and no just deadspace/officer mods going into empire i wouldnt say is all that big of a deal. What moongo? Well if CCP is so adamant on forcing us manufacturers/inventors into 0.0 no need for that either to go to empire. Of course, getting us to go to 0.0...

I tried, i really did try to go to 0.0 but even the friends i had in alliances pretty much made it clear, nah if you come you will be rediculed and forced into fleetfights even with your indie alts. Ok.. but i can sell you stuff right? what you mean at cost.. so i am not to make a profit.. ok i know all corps/alliances arent the same but that was my experience for quite some time talking to them. so.. *shrugs*

Athena Momaki
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:55:00 - [75]
 

Ice shouldn’t be taken out of hi-sec.

All hi-sec Pos's would suffer from this move. Your basic research corps would close down. The high sec station ME, PE, and copy or already back logged as it is it will just add a long strain to them. Anyone who isn’t a fool will never take BPO’s too low or null sec.

Ice products would skyrocket in price. The only groups that would benefit from this would be the ones that had ice belts pop up in their systems. Meanwhile the other alliances that were not lucky to receive a belt would be at the mercy of every alliance in the game. You would make it so that systems with belts would be the first attacked in Alliance wars. In turn making it the way to win a fight (completely starve out all POS’s and capital ships). This would kill the “Emergent Terrain” goal.

Jumping ships require ice products. When first buying a ship to jump out, it is cheaper to mine the ice that you get in hi-sec then it would be to buy the ice that has skyrocketed.

Any one who doesn't agree with the prices skyrocketing look at what happed to the price of POS fuel after the NPC's stoped selling it.

I agree with "Osidian hawk" don’t kill the belt. Just make the pay out more for the Low, and Null sec

"Obsidian Hawk:
Highsec - base line - 300 isotopes per unit
low sec - 25% better - 375 isotopes per unit
0.0 - 50% better - 450 isotopes per unit."

Maybe even less for High sec say 150 per unit. This makes Corp mining in high sec a big issue, or they will need to buy from somewhere. but the prices will not go thorough the roof.

WH’s:
From someone that used to live in WH space at one time.
ABC ores are needed to help replace the ships lost due to ganking or sleepers. It takes a long times to get a system that will lead to a “safe” out. The ship you try to bring back in also may close that WH. If anything is needed in WH space, it is an ice belt to pop up from time to time. One random belt traveling from system to system in a constellation will help people in WH space be more self-sufficient. It does not have to be much ice but could be enough to help a group with two or maybe even three POS’s last a week or two longer without needing a lot of fuel to be shipped in. To keep someone from mining it for a week you can give it a 24 hour window as well. The more Pos's someone has running more more frequent the belt shows up.

Shilalasar
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:06:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
...without allowing people to sit in C2s all day mining ABCs...


that´s the real kicker. Stop talking about wormholes as a whole, say it´s about those static-high C1/2´s.


Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Isn't it enough that nullsec is the sole-source of moon minerals for T2 development?


You really really really need to find a better way to get people into 0.0 than just boosting the income there.
So much empty space there, but as soon as you go there you are either renters or targets for a bored blob every single day.
Big Alliances are good and part of what makes eve unique. But also they hulksmash anyone because they can. And atm there is not much you can do to even hurt them.


If you make the iceroids deplete that just hurts the people not playing right after the downtime.
Move ice to gravisites? Great, finaly a reason to scan those down.

Avaliani
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:21:00 - [77]
 

The problem with removing ice from hisec is that ice mining is a great way for people with a limited amount of time and attention to play the game while still tending to our responsibilities. As a player who is full time work/school/dad, ice mining is a great activity for those times when I don't actually have time for anything more involved. I have no problem with removing ice materials from hi sec for the sake of balance (would it really improve balance?), but if that happens then some similarly low-attention, low-risk activity needs to be introduced or my motivation to log on during the school year will be severely diminished.

I honestly think that the whole "ABC in wormholes" thing has been blown out of proportion. When I read about the (nullsec) CSM's response to this, my first thought was something along the lines of "Really? You didn't know there was ABC there? Are you that out of touch with the rest of the game?" As someone who has spent a fair bit of time living in w-space I found that getting ore out of a wormhole is a logistical nightmare that I found to not to be worth it. I do think that grav sites in w-space need a rebalance, as they all feel very similar right now. Whatever changes are made, I think that high end wormholes need enough ore to build anything up to carrier size, and low end wormholes need enough ore to convince people to bring in their hulks, because popping them is fun.

Annie Mustaq
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:40:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Lady Ayeipsia
Edited by: Lady Ayeipsia on 15/08/2011 15:53:24
....
I must send 8 hours ice mining to produce enough fuel for a week ... 70 mil isk per month. ...


Right here is why I don't think removing ice would have that much effect. if it takes you 32 hours a month mining ice (which is more boring than regular mining I might add) and it only saves you 70mil a month. Spend those 32 hours mining kernite and pyrox. with 3 toons you can easily make 35mil/hour which would net 280/week at 8 hours a week, or 1.12 billion a month. But noooo, you'd rather save 70 mil than make 1.12 bil.

Inipinipocoloco
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:54:00 - [79]
 

you may have problems with 0.0 but i dare and double dare you keep your filthy dev finger out of WH space

if u got probs with ppl hanging out in c2s mining then remove abc ores from c1 and c2 but i dare you again - WHspace has enough risks of its own and is not guilty of any **** goin on in zero sec so just watch what ur doing

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:54:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Athena Momaki
Ice shouldn’t be taken out of hi-sec.

All hi-sec Pos's would suffer from this move. Your basic research corps would close down. The high sec station ME, PE, and copy or already back logged as it is it will just add a long strain to them. Anyone who isn’t a fool will never take BPO’s too low or null sec.

Ice products would skyrocket in price. The only groups that would benefit from this would be the ones that had ice belts pop up in their systems. Meanwhile the other alliances that were not lucky to receive a belt would be at the mercy of every alliance in the game. You would make it so that systems with belts would be the first attacked in Alliance wars. In turn making it the way to win a fight (completely starve out all POS’s and capital ships). This would kill the “Emergent Terrain” goal.

Jumping ships require ice products. When first buying a ship to jump out, it is cheaper to mine the ice that you get in hi-sec then it would be to buy the ice that has skyrocketed.

Any one who doesn't agree with the prices skyrocketing look at what happed to the price of POS fuel after the NPC's stoped selling it.

I agree with "Osidian hawk" don’t kill the belt. Just make the pay out more for the Low, and Null sec

"Obsidian Hawk:
Highsec - base line - 300 isotopes per unit
low sec - 25% better - 375 isotopes per unit
0.0 - 50% better - 450 isotopes per unit."

Maybe even less for High sec say 150 per unit. This makes Corp mining in high sec a big issue, or they will need to buy from somewhere. but the prices will not go thorough the roof.

WH’s:
From someone that used to live in WH space at one time.
ABC ores are needed to help replace the ships lost due to ganking or sleepers. It takes a long times to get a system that will lead to a “safe” out. The ship you try to bring back in also may close that WH. If anything is needed in WH space, it is an ice belt to pop up from time to time. One random belt traveling from system to system in a constellation will help people in WH space be more self-sufficient. It does not have to be much ice but could be enough to help a group with two or maybe even three POS’s last a week or two longer without needing a lot of fuel to be shipped in. To keep someone from mining it for a week you can give it a 24 hour window as well. The more Pos's someone has running more more frequent the belt shows up.


comprimise with 250 in high sec. Prices can get very high especially around hulkageddon times.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:56:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Ok, so here's the thing about wormhole space: it doesn't need mining as a reward type. All the other stuff you can get out of sleeper sites is more than enough to make w-space viable as an area of the game, with the sorts of activities we were hoping to cater for with it. Further, having miners sitting around in sites (and/or warping off starbases) doesn't really add a whole lot to the overall dynamic. The only thing it's really achieving is giving people a pretty safe place to mine high-ends and make a lot of money.

At the CSM summit, CCP did not have any metrics regarding mining high-ends in WH-space and their export to the rest of the game, nor has any subsequently been disclosed to the CSM.

Lacking metrics that show significant outflows of high-ends into the greater economy, there is no justification for nerfing it in WH-space for philosophical reasons. While WH space may not "need" it as a reward type, WH residents need it as a resource for local consumption. WH import and export is already tough enough without adding a whole class of materials that must be laboriously imported. We can't just jump-freighter it in, after all.

If CCP does have credible metrics that show that WH-sourced ABC is distorting the EVE economy (as opposed to being locally consumed), then by all means show this to the CSM. I for one will be happy to report to the community whether or not the quantities are significant.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.15 22:02:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Annie Mustaq
Originally by: Lady Ayeipsia
Edited by: Lady Ayeipsia on 15/08/2011 15:53:24
....
I must send 8 hours ice mining to produce enough fuel for a week ... 70 mil isk per month. ...


Right here is why I don't think removing ice would have that much effect. if it takes you 32 hours a month mining ice (which is more boring than regular mining I might add) and it only saves you 70mil a month. Spend those 32 hours mining kernite and pyrox. with 3 toons you can easily make 35mil/hour which would net 280/week at 8 hours a week, or 1.12 billion a month. But noooo, you'd rather save 70 mil than make 1.12 bil.

Last time I ran the numbers I determined that I'd be better off mining veld and putting a buy in for ice than mining ice, without even jumping systems.

Ice mining is only necessary if the market isn't supplying your needs adequately.

Tribunia
Posted - 2011.08.15 22:58:00 - [83]
 

For some inspirational reading on the subject I provide some linkage.

My take on mining is that the time consuming part should consist of prospecting for the right ore/mineral, not the actual extraction process. Well, the extraction process should take time ofc but contain a large amount of automation to save on deterring tedium and repetetiveness.

Wikipedias take on asteroid mining

www.space.com article on asteroid mining

www.howstuffworks article on asteroid mining

Read the articles! There are definately some interesting concepts in there that could very well apply to mining in EVE Online. From my perspective tho, tedium and repetitiveness is the number one priority to deal with.

corbby
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:03:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: corbby on 15/08/2011 23:06:16
Sole source of ice and high-end minerals

For further discussion. Nullsec should be the only place we're injecting (at least some of the) ices, zydrine, megacyte and morphite into the game. This ensures that nullsec mining retains a unique value proposition, and guarantees that mining time for these types is priced according the risk and effort involved in nullsec extraction.

i'd be interested in knowing where the risk is in mining high end minerals in a null sec where you have a locak compared to w space.

maybe remove local from null sec and then highend minerals from w space, that would make it much more of a risk to reward then. (might even help sort out alot of the bots as well)

Its also worth noting grav belts arent always in the wh your in and dont respawn when you clear them like null sec

Crexa
Star Mandate
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:24:00 - [85]
 

Lucrative
Mining in nullsec should make you a "good" amount of money, ie trending slightly above the average for nullsec professions. A good supply of minerals is necessary for our industrial goals, and ensuring payouts are good is one tool to encourage this.

No arguments here, mining in null-sec, while currently a form of suicide, should at least be profitable.

Motivational
Mining should be something that you do because you know you're achieving something, not just because it makes you money - the minerals created should be contributing towards larger goals.

Umm, I think this is what is currently done. No one with a brain mines for money. The only way to make it more goal oriented, would be to make minerals no trade so you mine for what you build. Something that is not likely to happen for all the obvious reasons.

Sole source of ice and high-end minerals
For further discussion. Nullsec should be the only place we're injecting (at least some of the) ices, zydrine, megacyte and morphite into the game. This ensures that nullsec mining retains a unique value proposition, and guarantees that mining time for these types is priced according the risk and effort involved in nullsec extraction.

Compartmentalizing is what has gotten you into this problem in the first place. Don't make it worse. What I mean by this is you implemented drone poo with nary a thought about its impact on mining, you implemented mission salvage recycling amounts without a thought on its impact on mining, and now you think that isolating Ice to null-sec helps? A more proper solution would be a halfway step such as; a reduction in received volumes, "poppable" ice asteroids and maybe scan-able ice belts. Just as all other belts, they de-spawn or come back downsized with heavy mining. Worried about constant bot mining, consider making them scan sites, toss in some variety like comets, where you have to maintain speed with the comet, (as some have hoped for), and problem solved. You want to make the ice in null better? Wait a minute, >>IT ALL READY IS BETTER<<. As for high ends, I don't see the problem with mining as it is high ends are already restricted to -0.0. The problem is with drone poo, and mission poo.

Investable
It should be possible (at most if not all levels of power) and desirable to invest directly in mining activities in a given area. We want mining to be something that requires settling down and investing in space if you want to maximize efficiency. (Ninja mining is still desirable and should also be supported.)

Again, you compartmentalized, and that is your problem, you have made it a self sustaining issue. You want mining to be a time investing venture, yet with each new ship class introduction you have pushed the real mining further and further from the table. T2 ships require moon goo, I REFUSE to call maintaining a POS to extract moon poo as a form of mining. T3 ships require a new form and greatly appreciated type of mining (gas) but all the other restrictions make it negligible as a fun sit down and mine activity. Namely, you can't just build a ship with gas, you need the whole industry chain of wormhole events to make it happen. I might say fine, if the balances were better, namely T1 is 100% minerals. T2 is 50% moon poo and 50% mineral and T3 is 33% gas 33% moon poo and 33% minerals. But as it is, mining, and industry for T3 requires combat. The other tiers do not.

Riveting Tale Sibling
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:26:00 - [86]
 

The TL;DR version: Remove ice from High Security space, because of bots. Instead, give it to null-seccers, for their bots.

What, having bots to run anoms isn't enough for them, or massive profit moongoo?

Ten Bulls
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:33:00 - [87]
 

Mining is one of the low skill professions lots of players aim for and try when they start out.

If Mining is made to be a high end profession at the expense of low skill point characters then it will harm young industrialists.

The "crafting" side of EVE is probably the best out of any MMORPG, its something that CCP should be using to draw new players in, not hide it away as something they see as "end game" content.

If you want to boost mining in NULL sec, thats fine, but dont do it at the expense of high sec.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:33:00 - [88]
 

Have not read it all, so I hope this is not a repeat.

One way to boost low and null sec mining and give high sec just a small nerf is to make use of a mechanic already in the game: Ore quality. I mean like Veldspar, concentrated veld, and dense veld.

First boost the higher quality ores, to maybe as high as +50% and +100%.

Next, move all the mids and highs out of high sec. (Well, maybe a smattering of the mid level in the lowest of high sec, just to give new players the idea that lower the sec status, better the ore). Low sec would be a good mix of all 3, and null mostly the highs.

Ices: same idea.

Crexa
Star Mandate
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:40:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Crexa on 15/08/2011 23:42:33
Edited by: Crexa on 15/08/2011 23:40:48
Originally by: Vincent Athena
Have not read it all, so I hope this is not a repeat.

One way to boost low and null sec mining and give high sec just a small nerf is to make use of a mechanic already in the game: Ore quality. I mean like Veldspar, concentrated veld, and dense veld.

First boost the higher quality ores, to maybe as high as +50% and +100%.

Next, move all the mids and highs out of high sec. (Well, maybe a smattering of the mid level in the lowest of high sec, just to give new players the idea that lower the sec status, better the ore). Low sec would be a good mix of all 3, and null mostly the highs.


Ices: same idea.


One could give half hearted support to such an idea, if, and thats a big IF, miners had more defensive measures available to them. Otherwise it will be a long while before you see miners. Minerals will get really expensive and come from safe forms, Ie. Missions and Drone Poo.

And, btw, there are no legit high ends in high sec. You do occasionally see limited forms of mid minerals, but these are specials and outside the norm.

Crexa
Star Mandate
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:45:00 - [90]
 

I would love to hear from the master-miner. Or former heavy-weight miner, Chribba.


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