open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Nullsec Development: Design Goals
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7

Author Topic

Billy Endashi
Posted - 2011.08.19 13:04:00 - [151]
 

this all reeks of nullsec by nullsec:ers.

Rocky Deadshot
Posted - 2011.08.19 15:58:00 - [152]
 

Ice mining is by far one of the more boring things in eve. By moving it to null sec only, you would take away the one thing that IS appealing about it... you can set it up and go do something else for awhile.

I'm a college student and I ice mine while I do homework, take away ice and during the school year I'll have little reason to log in other than to chat and ship spin (oh wait can't do that).

Before enacting, or even talking about, something involving the complete removal of something from high sec, why don't you do a study in how much effect it would have. I'm curious to know how much ice comes from high sec... and I'm also curios how many of these dedicated ice miner wouldn't follow ice into null sec.

Also... ice mining isn't lucrative... so why the hell would you mess with it.

Manfred Sideous
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:16:00 - [153]
 

Empire people wanting to retain all the income and gain no risk :nonshocker:

All of this Nullsec isn't endgame talk is nonsense. It has nothing to do with endgame it has to do with Risk vs Reward. Why is it that nullsec people risk all for less return then empire where the only risk is a suicide ganker? Where is the thrill or sense of accomplishment of getting reward where no risk was levied?


Nullsec is dieing as is. Without some remap to draw people (not force) to it it will surely die. Currently there is no reason to go to nullsec other than PVP. Which you can get in empire in more controllable palatable increments for younger players than nullsec. Except the epic space battles CCP use as a marketing tool all happen in low/nullsec.


Risk vs Reward is way off in Eve Online and has been for some time. Stop deflecting the conversation to "Endgame" because in a sandbox there is no endgame but what you make.

Less risk Less reward More risk More reward.

Rocky Deadshot
Posted - 2011.08.19 22:32:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Manfred Sideous


Less risk Less reward More risk More reward.


Seems to be what all the nullsec cry babies and CSM keep saying....

In high sec the most rewarding thing is lvl 4 missions (ignoring trading and industry and pirate actions) which makes anywhere from 25mil/hr to 40mil/hr depending on alot of factors. The next thing is mining ore which right now is either pyrox or veld and a nice hulk with a gang boosting orca could easily make something around 14mil/hr, lastly is ice mining which makes under 10mil/hr.

Whats the reward for ice mining.... mind numbing boredom... so why should they increase the risk of it.
Nullsec should have higher pay out... or a new type of ice that yields higher return or something. But Ice miners arent gonna move to nullsec and ****ing with the POS fuel market is a terrible idea.

Korvin
Gallente
Shadow Kingdom
Best Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.20 00:34:00 - [155]
 


Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.08.20 09:54:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: gfldex


I would like to elaborate a bit on that. Years ago I did the recruitment for a 0.0 based corp. Beside rejecting halve of all applicants it was my job to remove all members that didn't come online anymore. I had to observe a very dominant pattern.

Folks showed up at our doorstep because they finished skilling for their BS. They did so in highsec getting some ISK while shooting lvl4 NPCs. It felt sensible for them because them nice +4 imps improve skill time quite a lot. Most of them tried to move their BS into fountain solo at prime time. They didn't even reached 0.0 thanks to the Aridia population. We told them _again_ that we can build ships for them in our home system. They join us and got their new BS. We had pvp ops daily and as a result all those new members lost ships. Pretty much all of them quit the game after they lost the 3rd BS in the same week.

They never learned to keep the balance of gaining ISK and loosing ISK. Thus they never learned to lose a ship _properly_. They didn't learn it because _they_never_had_to_ while being big buddies with their lvl4 agents.



Thats pretty clear evidence that risk > reward currently in 0.0. (Im semi-serious about this)


Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.08.20 16:55:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: Zey Nadar
Originally by: gfldex

...



Thats pretty clear evidence that risk > reward currently in 0.0. (Im semi-serious about this)



More like they experienced the wonderful world of being the new grunt on the block; even if you invested untold hours in the effort to take over that technetium moon you will never see any of that income in your personal coffers.

Dalilus
Posted - 2011.08.20 22:07:00 - [158]
 

Edited by: Dalilus on 20/08/2011 23:05:04
More people like to carebear in high sec than pvp in low or null sec. That's just the way it is. If it were the other way around there would be tons of players in low/null sec and high sec would be a graveyard. Nullsec alliances would have thousands upon thousands of noobs begging to be let in and lemming event cannon fodder roams would be the norm. Imagine the killboards stats full of rookie ships.

If CCP wants to lure carebears into low/null sec with the way the game mechanics are set up right now, not gonna happen. Ever heard of ganking? For example, why do carebears run such pimped up ships? Believe me, its not for the bling or bragging rights about epeen size, its because you can finish a mission in a fraction of the time. Running a Blockade or Extravaganzza in a regular tech 2 fit ship with +3 implants easily takes 2 - 3 hours or more but fly an all faction fit regular battleship with +5 implants and you can finish the mission including salvaging in an hour or less. Am I going to take a 4+ billion isk BS to lowsec, never mind nullsec, to be scanned, ganked and paraded on a killboard? Sure, right, dream on. Don't get me started on thinking about flying a 12+ billion isk officer fit marauder to run lvl 5s in low/null sec. That marauder has turned into an expensive hangar queen with no use at the moment. Not everyone can play EVE for several hours a day.

I left my mommie's house many years back and I don't need a substitute like a FC, corp CEO, or anybody else telling me how to fleet up, what ship to fly, what time to be online, how long to be online and least of all complain when I choose to make isk instead of going on a roam. Why? So I can purchase that Pith-X type shield boost amplifier I need for a battleship and maybe save for months for a couple of Estamel's modified invulnerability fields. More solo content please, a lot MORE solo content please. Not everyone likes to sit in a circle and circle jerk while saying gf, gf, gf...rawr or whatever.

There was a time when the CSM was run by carebears that did not care or understand nullsec. Their bad. Now that the worm has turned and the loons are running the asylum we find that the CSM is run by nullsec alliances that don't give a squat or understand high sec - eventhough that's where most of EVE players reside, live and die - except to turn it into a killing ground so their members can amuse themselves while PVPing.

Anyways IMO the way CCP is thinking about implementing NPC nullsec sounds interesting in principle, maybe set it up so that it feels more like wormhole space that regular nullsec? Get rid of local? Make it so that the solo players can carve out a niche without being hot dropped by a bored blob that has not seen a target in a couple of hours? Embarassed

I think its about time players that live in nullsec stop being disingenuous and understand, accept, come to grips or what have you that if their preference is to spend their hard earned isk blowing up and getting blown up in shiny internet space ships while doing PVP so be it. But stop whining that they never have isk because that is their free-will decision. We carebears prefer to spend and risk our isk and shiny ships in other ways. I some times think the end game of nullsec alliances is force CCP to give them free ships so they can pvp to their hearts content at no cost to themselves because they "promote the game".

PS. Bring back ship spinning in hangar? Laughing

Alexzia Sevic
Posted - 2011.08.21 00:25:00 - [159]
 

Its funny how people keep complaining that they want more solo/PVE content in hisec. Go play Xbox. This is a massive multiplayer online game. Its fine that CCP wants to develop the parts that involve players interacting with other players. Thats the entire premise of the genre.

Manfred Sideous
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.21 04:33:00 - [160]
 

Edited by: Manfred Sideous on 21/08/2011 05:50:29
Originally by: Dalilus
Edited by: Dalilus on 20/08/2011 23:05:04
More people like to carebear in high sec than pvp in low or null sec. That's just the way it is. If it were the other way around there would be tons of players in low/null sec and high sec would be a graveyard. Nullsec alliances would have thousands upon thousands of noobs begging to be let in and lemming event cannon fodder roams would be the norm. Imagine the killboards stats full of rookie ships.

If CCP wants to lure carebears into low/null sec with the way the game mechanics are set up right now, not gonna happen. Ever heard of ganking? For example, why do carebears run such pimped up ships? Believe me, its not for the bling or bragging rights about epeen size, its because you can finish a mission in a fraction of the time. Running a Blockade or Extravaganzza in a regular tech 2 fit ship with +3 implants easily takes 2 - 3 hours or more but fly an all faction fit regular battleship with +5 implants and you can finish the mission including salvaging in an hour or less. Am I going to take a 4+ billion isk BS to lowsec, never mind nullsec, to be scanned, ganked and paraded on a killboard? Sure, right, dream on. Don't get me started on thinking about flying a 12+ billion isk officer fit marauder to run lvl 5s in low/null sec. That marauder has turned into an expensive hangar queen with no use at the moment. Not everyone can play EVE for several hours a day.

I left my mommie's house many years back and I don't need a substitute like a FC, corp CEO, or anybody else telling me how to fleet up, what ship to fly, what time to be online, how long to be online and least of all complain when I choose to make isk instead of going on a roam. Why? So I can purchase that Pith-X type shield boost amplifier I need for a battleship and maybe save for months for a couple of Estamel's modified invulnerability fields. More solo content please, a lot MORE solo content please. Not everyone likes to sit in a circle and circle jerk while saying gf, gf, gf...rawr or whatever.

There was a time when the CSM was run by carebears that did not care or understand nullsec. Their bad. Now that the worm has turned and the loons are running the asylum we find that the CSM is run by nullsec alliances that don't give a squat or understand high sec - eventhough that's where most of EVE players reside, live and die - except to turn it into a killing ground so their members can amuse themselves while PVPing.

Anyways IMO the way CCP is thinking about implementing NPC nullsec sounds interesting in principle, maybe set it up so that it feels more like wormhole space that regular nullsec? Get rid of local? Make it so that the solo players can carve out a niche without being hot dropped by a bored blob that has not seen a target in a couple of hours? Embarassed

I think its about time players that live in nullsec stop being disingenuous and understand, accept, come to grips or what have you that if their preference is to spend their hard earned isk blowing up and getting blown up in shiny internet space ships while doing PVP so be it. But stop whining that they never have isk because that is their free-will decision. We carebears prefer to spend and risk our isk and shiny ships in other ways. I some times think the end game of nullsec alliances is force CCP to give them free ships so they can pvp to their hearts content at no cost to themselves because they "promote the game".

PS. Bring back ship spinning in hangar? Laughing


0.0 is what drives the marketing of the game not mission running. Furthermore 0.0 is built around teamplay so obviously you being a person that only likes to solo are not interested in 0.0 . I do however agree that solo pvp isn't really possible without a spy/awoxing alt. Use to be PVP was a proffesion you could actually earn isk by doing it.

Loni Elahhez
Posted - 2011.08.21 17:26:00 - [161]
 

Smells like a nullsec plot, made by a nullsec'er that wish more ducks to shoot out of the water.

Listen less to the nullsec'ers please.

Riveting Tale Sibling
Posted - 2011.08.21 23:31:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Manfred Sideous
Empire people wanting to retain all the income and gain no risk :nonshocker:

All of this Nullsec isn't endgame talk is nonsense. It has nothing to do with endgame it has to do with Risk vs Reward. Why is it that nullsec people risk all for less return then empire where the only risk is a suicide ganker? Where is the thrill or sense of accomplishment of getting reward where no risk was levied?


Nullsec is dieing as is. Without some remap to draw people (not force) to it it will surely die. Currently there is no reason to go to nullsec other than PVP. Which you can get in empire in more controllable palatable increments for younger players than nullsec. Except the epic space battles CCP use as a marketing tool all happen in low/nullsec.


Risk vs Reward is way off in Eve Online and has been for some time. Stop deflecting the conversation to "Endgame" because in a sandbox there is no endgame but what you make.

Less risk Less reward More risk More reward.


Says the leader of AAA,
Says the leader of Cascade Imminent,
Says the Common Pandemic Legion Grunt.

I guess it's easy to argue for all the rewards when you blue everything.

Defiah Kadeyooh
Posted - 2011.08.22 01:27:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: Viceroy
Travel times are too short and travel (especially logistics) is too safe and convenient for a meaningful economy to develop in 0.0 space. This was always the case, but it became worse over time first with instajump bookmarks, then with warp-to-zero and obviously with the current ridiculous jump-drive mechanics. Every one of these changes made EVE smaller and safer and thus less meaningful, mostly to satisfy ADHD-ridden carebears (see: short-termism) who wanted to get everywhere and do everything before they went to bed.

This has made it impossible to develop a meaningful economy in 0.0. It really isn't an issue of rare resources being available in 0.0 only, or how those resources are distributed, or who has access to them, when all of those resources are 30 minutes away from being exported to Jita with a good set of cyno alts and Titans and/or JFs. If you seed BPOs or skill books in 0.0, some dude in a JF is going to seed the entire empire market in under 15 minutes of work. It also doesn't matter if you give 0.0 producers advantages or access to better resources or other incentives when everything can be bought from a much safer, much more efficient and much more competitive market that is again, at most 30 minutes away. On top of that, you can buy hundreds of thousands of m3's of stuff in a single short trip thanks to freighters. Jita will remain the supermarket of EVE as long as travel is so conveniently safe and fast.

For economies to develop in 0.0, the travel time to empire has to be measured literally in DAYS rather than minutes and loopholes like jump drive logistics and portals have to be plugged. But DAYS? That's insane. People would die of boredom.

Not necessarily; people would travel less if travel times were much slower than they do right now. WHAT? Well, right now it's more convenient to invest another 15-30 minutes of travel to get to Jita than it is to produce locally or give an incentive to someone to produce locally or any other complex solution that would involve local economy. Screw it and tell your alliance JF dude to ship it in. If the travel times were much slower, you'd likely be making the trip from empire to 0.0 once, and would carefully plan your logistics accordingly, knowing that it's probably a one way trip. After that, the time you would normally invest in going to empire to pick stuff up would be distributed among more engaging activities, such as, you know, BUILDING A LOCAL MARKET (either through buying stuff or actually producing stuff knowing that you won't be out-competed by a JF alt).


This won’t only affect the market hubs! PvP would be changed in numerous ways and for the better through making you less mobile.

#1 Force Projection even through supcaps is a major problem of EVE today. Blobbing is so easy when traveltimes are low. If moving is more painful, then less people will bother taking the trip and the blobs will be smaller and gameplay for those involved will be less of a slideshow.

#2 It makes different shipclasses more distinct. Today the small alignmenttime between the shipclasses means they are almost equally fast moving around. Having to deal with flying 10-15km per warp as well to the gate would make the classdifference bigger while moving. That could let a nimbler gang of smaller ships outmaneuver and spread out a gang of bigger ships.


#3 Reinforcementtimes would increase in lowsec and in 0.0. Today you have to kill quick or be overrun by hostiles. If traveltime goes up, ppl would get more time to kill before reinforcements a few jumps out would get there.

Combining this with a nerf to jumpbridges and titanbridges, as well as possibly changing the way supers move as others suggested in the other thread, conflicts would be much more local and big powerblocks wouldn’t be able to spread their influence so far away and at the very end not be able to respond as quick and with such force as it is today.

Life in 0.0 needs to become tougher again. Also, someone wrote a long post years ago about the eve economy and how easy it was to gather isk: “It’s the economy, stupid”. AS DC wrote, ISK shouldn’t be as easy to make…

Manfred Sideous
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.22 07:35:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: Defiah Kadeyooh

Life in EVE needs to become tougher again


Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.08.22 07:52:00 - [165]
 

Empire space is much more important than 0.0.

Both in terms of population and in terms of market.

Just look at how many ships are killed there (dotlan stats). Easily three times more shipkills in empire than in 0.0.

So, why is Empire (highsec) so popular? Is it because 0.0 is so bad with no opportunities? Or is it because Empire is such a good place?


I think one major point, which was never mentioned so far, is the extreme diversity you have in Highsec. You can find tons of new people, new things to do, new ways of life. In 0.0 you always hang around with your same group of people that have more or less all the same mindset and do more or less always the same stuff. Maybe people are just bored with that uniformity?


Billy Endashi
Posted - 2011.08.22 12:32:00 - [166]
 

Edited by: Billy Endashi on 22/08/2011 12:35:13
once we realized that every damn decent moon was taken, we decided null/ls was not for us. a small corp has no place in null. you can try to change that if you wish. not all of us want to be under the thumb of some alliance boss. now if you could reclaim all the moons and issue mining rights for say 3/6/12 months at a time to the highest bidder, then we would have something. a small corp like ours could buy the mining rights to a few moons in ls, set up shop and do our thing. people could blow up our pos, but they could not mine that moon, because they dont own the rights to it. a sov holder would also be able to issue right to moons on their property. ofc, if they lose a system, that right would be null/voided. so there would be more risk.

Balcor Mirage
Posted - 2011.08.22 18:47:00 - [167]
 

Outlaw Space (0.0) Future Vision

Through the implementation of a useful sovereignty index, award of sovereignty points, activity indexes (PVP, PVE, Industry) systems can be claimed & improved. Through disuse and neglect, sovereignty can be lost. If an alliance spends too much time away from their systems while conquering others, they may lose what they started with… at the very least, their systems will suffer as indexes decline. This type of system assures that an alliance only holds what they can effectively maintain. Using a war mechanic as a way to conquer systems as opposed to shooting structures will allow for many types of invasions since all types of activities would count towards taking over a opponents system. Having constellation capitals can allow for more localized trade hubs as more sovereignty points can then be spent by the alliance holding the title. Following is a breakdown of how this system can work…

1.)The base truesec value of all systems should be 0.0. This value can improve through the increase of sovereignty index.

2.)Sovereignty Index – There should be 10 levels of sovereignty instead of 5. Sovereignty index should increase or decrease through use & activities not time. If there is no activity, sovereignty can be lost in a system altogether. Aggregate Sov index within a constellation will eventually provide a constellation capital.
a.PVE Index – as this index increases, better anomalies & combat signatures should spawn. PVE index affects the sovereignty index. As the sovereignty index increases, the truesec of a system improves from -0.0 all the way to -1.0 which will improve the quality of NPC spawns in standard belts.
b.Industry Index – Mining, PI, moon harvesting, building & commerce in a system will increase or diminish the industry index. The Industry index impacts the sovereignty index. As the sov index increases, the trusec of a system improves from -0.0 all the way to -1.0 which will improve the quality of Ore in standard belts.
c.PVP Index – Killboard statistics (yes, make them count for something) for a system will improve or diminish the sovereignty index of a system.

3.)Sovereignty Points – Points should be awarded for maintaining systems & constellations at various sov levels each week. These points can be held in escrow by an alliance or spent in any held system for improvements & defense items such as:
a.Gate Guns
b.Station Guns
c.NPC police force
d.Gate warp interdiction bubbles
e.Deep space probe facilities which will discover the location of cloaked ships over time
f.Planet defense (Dust 514 integration)
g.Station & Station Upgrades
h.Super Carriers & Titans

4.)War (what is it good for)- Declaring war on a sov holder is the mechanism which will directly capture sovereignty of a system. Winning a war will award sovereignty points.
a.PVP index multiplier will hasten the increase or decrease of sov level in a system. Winning or losing a war (pvp statistics in the war zone) provides a bonus which will increase or decrease sov level in a system. If the index reduces to 0 during a war, the system is conquered. Note: Reducing sov index also reduces the quality of the truesec value.
b.Aggressor mining in a system during war will decrease the sov index of the owner. Also, completing any professional sites will reduce the sov index.
c.Aggressor PVE activity during war will decrease the sov index of the owner. Also, completing any combat sites will reduce the sov index of a system.
d.Aggressor Moon harvesting during war will decrease the sov index of the owner.

cont...

Balcor Mirage
Posted - 2011.08.22 18:49:00 - [168]
 

...part 2

5.)Supercaps & Titans – These ships become sovereignty items and are tied to the system in which sovereignty points are spent for their construction. Keep in mind that spending points allows for the placement of the ship in a system, not the ship itself… which must then be built/reactivated. If the sovereignty index begins to decay, these ships will begin to shut down. They can be reactivated as the index increases, and additional sov points are spent.

6.)Stations and Station Upgrades – Instead of one size of outpost with upgrades, have a small & medium outpost & a station option with an upgrade path. If the sovereignty index begins to decay, these facilities begin to shut down. They can be reactivated as the index increases, and additional sov points are spent. Spending sov points allows for the placement of these facilities, but they still must be built/reactivated.
a.Small outpost – provides alliance docking facility with personal hangars, market & repair facilities. Upgrade path is to a medium outpost through the spending of sovereignty points.
b.Medium outpost – these are the current types of outposts in the game along with the current upgrade types. Upgrade path is to a station through the spending of sovereignty points.
c.Station – Large facility which through upgrades includes the highest level of services currently provided for by all four racial outpost upgrades, i.e. Offices, research facilities, production and refining.

7.)NPC police force – Sov points can be spent to deploy an NPC police force. These forces could help defend a system during lower login periods for the alliance. Loss of police force vessels would count against the PVE index, thus impacting the sov index.

8.)Deep space probe facility – This structure can be used to scan a system grid by grid to hunt down cloaked ships. A grid search pattern can be laid in to prioritize what areas get scanned first. This facility will require additional skills to operate. If the sovereignty index begins to decay, this facility will go offline. It can be reactivated by spending additional sov points when the index is high enough to support it.

Kuroki Meisa Kennedy
Posted - 2011.08.22 22:21:00 - [169]
 

Players should be drawn to nulsec to have fun. Not to be rich. Also do not underestimate the players who want to fly solo or in small groups. These should have a place in nulsec and there should be a way big alliances would welcome them.

As it stands it fire first questions later.. This makes me a sad panda Crying or Very sad

Issler Dainze
Minmatar
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
Posted - 2011.08.23 20:59:00 - [170]
 

CCP and sadly, the current CSM are taking the illogical postition that the majority of Eve players, the casual, solo, small gang, highsec mission runner/miner/PvE-ers living in Empire or heaven forbid, the WH ABC miners (!!!) are somehow screwing up the "way Eve should be played" by playing Eve wrong and having fun doing it! They are committed the the position that "they must be stopped!" by farking up aspects of the game that the majority find most appealing.

Wake up CCP, unless you find a way to break the stranglehold large alliances have on 0.0 and make it possible for smaller corporations to survive in 0.0 then that majority will never go to 0.0. And honestly, every suggestion that might help with that goal will die a horrible death in the current CCP/CSM world because it would take away all the things that make 0.0 so screwed up! Nerfing Empire to drive the content players that enjoy life there to 0.0 will fail. The folks in empire are there because they don't want to deal with the imbalance and political baggage of life in 0.0. Their enjoyment of Eve and their play styles can't work in 0.0.

And talk of "end game" in a constantly changing dynamic MMO is nonsense. Eve isn't linear with and end. But currently Eve decision makers seem to think that in the end all that matters is making folks live in a part of space that is lorded over by huge groups that have infinitely deep pockets because of immense capital fleets paid for by isk printing moons and safe locations for massive botting.

Continue to nerf Empire and all you will do is drive the majority of your players out of Eve.

You really want to make 0.0 work. Be brave enough to make the following changes.

  • Capital ships changes to remote support and logisitics hubs. Make the biggest ship what can matter in terms of direct damage the battleship. Carriers and Super Carriers become huge hangars to jump in and repair (in hangar only) fleets Super Carriers are just bigger carriers with clone bays to support real mobile assaults.


  • Dreadnaughts go back to POS warfare and infrastructure assault.


  • As fleets grow past a certain size the effectiveness of their weapons and targeting diminish, this can be reduced with appropriate fleet composition that includes smaller specialized ships. Once and for all end blob warfare.


  • The largest capitals turn into jump-able outposts with defensive weapons only and can allow other capitals to dock.


  • Introduce a POS trading module to allow docking and services that can be also put in low sec.


  • Get leases created to allow real 0.0 renting with real insurance amounts that are paid if the renters are attacked by the landlords or other terms of the lease are violated to make a smaller group more able to consider a 0.0 venture.


  • Make valuable moon minerals dynamic and move from moon to moon throughout 0.0 and low sec. Remove the permemant isk printing machines and make the bigger alliances have to constantly fight to maintain the most valuable resources.


  • Make all 0.0 content fluid and migratory. Basically make it so there is no more "most valuable region".


  • Eliminate jump bridges.


  • Eliminate warp bubbles and replace them with an area effect that is centered on the interdictor that would have normally launched the bubble. One active pilot per bubble.


  • Add deployable gate guns that can be attacked and destroyed.


Are those the 0.0 answer? Some, maybe, bottom line, here is what CCP needs to make the key concepts of fixing 0.0.

0.0 offers a large range of unique and dangerous enviroments.
0.0 is dynamic and changing.
0.0 is the source of greatest wealth
0.0 requires constant effort and movement to be most profitable
0.0 does not provide an isk printing machine
0.0 is not the "end game of Eve"

Issler

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:10:00 - [171]
 

Ugh, there's some crazy ideas up there. Sov-points and leases? There is nothing in game to even approximate that. The time required to design and program something of that kind of administrative magnitude would be soul-crushingly long.

We already have 3 indices: strategic, military, and industrial. These are maintained/improved/degraded by usage or lack thereof. They work well. No need to reinvent the wheel. However, some tweaks could be beneficial.

For example, I would support seeing anchorable gate and station guns. We can deathstar a POS and not a station? Seriously?

We already have anchorable bubbles. No need for a sov-tied module that does the same thing. It would never get used.

Quote:
Introduce a POS trading module to allow docking and services that can be also put in low sec.


Already implemented. It's called a hanger array, or ship maintenance bay.

Quote:
Eliminate warp bubbles and replace them with an area effect that is centered on the interdictor that would have normally launched the bubble. One active pilot per bubble.


Again, already implemented. It's called a Heavy Interdictor (HIC). Each race has one.

Eliminating jump bridges won't appreciably change things. Home defense will change. nulsec empires may shrink a bit, which may not be a bad thing. Probably would be better for pvp. But might make holding space vs the super blob almost impossible.

Reducing the range of titan bridges and jump drives (other than blops and perhaps jump freighters) would be more effective in reducing (super)cap projection. They are huge ships. It can be explained by saying that the tech just can't deal with the massive amount of mass involved as effectively.

Just because you change the flag in the territory doesn't mean all the infrastructure has to be taken down and rebuilt. On the other hand, one needn't shoot a station to replace an enemy's flag with your own.

Sov is sov. Indices (other than the sovereignty index) should be separate. In this way, attackers have the choice between disrupting an enemy's activities, destroying infrastructure, and attempting to flip sov.

Give us the option to flip or destroy structures. I want to capture it? Cool. Currently, we have to destroy it and take sov just to put up something of our own. And stations need to be both destructible and defensible. Can you imagine an array of Citadel Torpedoes or even a doomsday weapon on a station? That would be epic.

Issler Dainze
Minmatar
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
Posted - 2011.08.24 08:14:00 - [172]
 

Originally by: Soldarius
Ugh, there's some crazy ideas up there. Sov-points and leases?

Quote:
Introduce a POS trading module to allow docking and services that can be also put in low sec.


Already implemented. It's called a hanger array, or ship maintenance bay.

Quote:
Eliminate warp bubbles and replace them with an area effect that is centered on the interdictor that would have normally launched the bubble. One active pilot per bubble.


Again, already implemented. It's called a Heavy Interdictor (HIC). Each race has one.




When I was in the CSM CCP said there were working on something like a lease in 0.0 as a "treaty" so I just want them to deliver that they promised some time back.

A hangar array does not allow anyone to dock and buy/sell. Heck it won't even allow real alliance asset sharing. I want to be able to make a POS a market hub. No way to do that today.

Basically I want every warp bubble to require a logged in active pilot and only one bubble active per pilot at a time. I think you lost the point of the idea.

Also none of what I suggested was tied to "sov". I think in general "sov" is a bad idea. Either you own the space by actually controlling it or you don't.

We absolutely need to reinvent the wheel for 0.0, that was my point, it is too broken to just nerf every place else and then tweak the drek that 0.0 already is. It needs to be totally changed to break up the power block blob isk printing groups that dominate what the majority of players consider the worst place in Eve.

Issler

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.08.24 09:32:00 - [173]
 

After rereading my post I think I came off as an ass again. My apologies. I'm working on that.

I think some of your ideas, primarily the ones I pointed out, are not feasible. Pilots aren't going to sit on grid in an uncloaked ship just to bubble a gate for hours. While anchored bubbles are somewhat of an easy mode, they enable lone pilots with minimal skills to be somewhat effective interdictors. Bubbles can be easily avoided by those with fairly little experience, and can be destroyed easily. Warp disruption probes expire after 30 seconds. And a HIC, while well-tanked for a cruiser, isn't exactly a paragon of firepower. They seem balanced to me.

As far as nulsec trade goes, we have stations. I think trade could be implemented at a POS. But more functions of POSes? They are borked up enough as it is. I believe the main reasons for stations are the refinery, refitting, repair, clone bay, and trade functions. Certain cap ships can do most of those functions, as can a POS. The only thing neither can do is trade functions. So I'm not surprised to see you asking for it. This would especially benefit w-space dwellers who do not benefit from stations.

Personally, I think we should leave the trade functions in stations. This makes them special and worth fighting for. They are alliance level assets, and trade in nulsec is an alliance level activity.

None of what I want is tied to sov, either. But people want a way to plant their flag and see their colors on the map. Therefore we will have sovereignty in Eve. So we may as well make the most of it. I just don't think the assets and infrastructure should be tied to it. Seriously, why should a station ever be flatout invulnerable to attack? Why is an IHUB invulnerable to attack without SBUs?

When nation A invades nation B, do they have to literally destroy all the water and power plants in order to assault the capitol? No. Sov needs to be separated from infrastructure. A nation is conquered when the invading force has military control over it's territory, and the defending force no longer contests their claim.

You want someone's sovereign space? Anchor your own TCU and destroy their's. Now it's yours, technically. All the sov benefits that were their's are now your's, except any stations. This does nothing to the infrastructure. Infrastructure is maintained by the IHUB and the 3 indices. The invading force's very presence will affect the indices because without the attendant activities being performed (mining, ratting, etc) those indices will drop.

Personally, I'd like to see the IHUB go away as well. An undefended basket of eggs sitting in space that is only protected by the ridiculous invulnerability of the mechanics? Just... wow.

Change those infrastructure improvements into POS mods. Now they are defended, and not all dropped into a single gigantic target with massive HP. Which POS you gonna shoot? Or none? Your choice. Kill the POS and you get free system upgrades. Sounds like something that is worth fighting for.

Currently, cyno jammers are very high priority targets. So there is precedent for putting valuable infrastructure modules at a POS. And its not like you can anchor an infinite number of them. Only 5 of each type per system, plus the jump bridge and cyno jammer.

Or we could just get rid of them all together and use only the indices. Use the system, get the benes. That is all.

On an aside, Quantum Flux Generator. Who the hell wants more wormholes in their sov space? Seriously? Who thought of that one? Did anyone at CCP even think about that? OR was there nothing else available? Looking at the list of upgrades, I think probably not. Par for the course.

Balcor Mirage
Posted - 2011.08.24 17:28:00 - [174]
 

Quote:
None of what I want is tied to sov, either. But people want a way to plant their flag and see their colors on the map. Therefore we will have sovereignty in Eve. So we may as well make the most of it. I just don't think the assets and infrastructure should be tied to it. Seriously, why should a station ever be flatout invulnerable to attack? Why is an IHUB invulnerable to attack without SBUs?


This is why I suggested attacking the indexes directly as opposed to attacking structures. To do that however, you need to tie the indexes to the sov index... thus making a system conquerable by dominating it militarily or by stripping raw material.

Issler Dainze
Minmatar
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:46:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: Soldarius

lots of reasonable stuff.



Thanks for taking the time to respond (both times) with some reasoned observations related to my suggestions. I agree there is value in seeing that "your flag" is associated with some part of space as a result of your efforts. I'd like to see something like that remain. I think however I'd like to see that creating trade in your area be an element of how space is declared "owned".

Maybe I should skip the how and go to the way I think 0.0 should be.

Fluid - no static free isk machines like the moons today
Rewarding - the best opportunitie should be in 0.0
Dangerous - there needs to be "balanced" risk that match the rewards
Unique - there should be things there you can only see there

What I think ruins what we have for 0.0 today:

PvP is all about capitals and blobs - Capital ships need to be redesigned to be infrastructure for mobile fleets and remote bases, not offensive weapons. PvP needs to be totally redesigned to make blobs undesireable and to make success more reliant on fleet composition and tactics. This also should help with the overall experience by reducting lag.

Static resources that provide huge wealth without any active management need to be removed. Static golden moons need to changed to someting mobile and dynamic. No more "my alliance owns tech moons so even our noobs have a titan".

The way 0.0 works today there is no way to establish market hubs and trade routes, these are key to the Eve universe and totally absent from what CCP seems to want everyone with more than a million SP to move to.

There is no industrial element to 0.0 other capital ship construction. 0.0 should let someone build other "only built there" items without having to have SOV and a giant alliance to protect a huge shipyard.

Just some thoughts, again while I had our corp in 0.0 for a time and have been back briefly several times since I don't claim to know the answer. My comments are based on why we (and most folks I know in Eve) aren't interested in returning. Every time we think about nullsec and how we could operate there it quickly becomes obvious I can't provide the experiences to my corp members there that brought them to our corp in the first place.

We have never been able to count on alliances that offer to "rent" and I don't see the type of fun loving casual player that makes up most of our corp (and Eve in general) ever wanting to focus on elements of Eve they don't enjoy to allow us to be self sufficent there. The few things that are interesting to us as industrialist and traders (build an outpost for example) can't be done because of the screwed up SOV system and the need for massive fleets of ultra costly capitals to keep anything we do there safe for even a moment.

When I think back and look at the "big picture" it became obvious as all the attempts to make nullsec civil and accessable to all have failed (first one we saw and were committed to was "Big Blue"). Eve is designed to bring out the worst in everyone and it succeeds very well at that. The way 0.0 works today makes kicking over someone's sandcastle far too easy once you own all the sand. And CCP has made it so only a limited number of very large and organized groups can own the sand. Now it seems that CCP thinks the solution is to move all the sand into the box already occupied by the bullies and in addition make the folks losing their sand have to pay the bullies for the sand they used to share with their other friends.

In addition CCP thinks this will make the kids losing their sand want to move to the bullies sandbox knowing that the bullies will just delight in taking their lunch money and providing wedgies at every opportunity. Somehow CCP thinks those other kids will learn to love that or just change their nature and join the bullies.

At some point a lot of folks will look for a new playground.

Issler "worried about our sand" Dainze


Manfred Sideous
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.24 21:50:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Issler Dainze
Originally by: Soldarius

lots of reasonable stuff.




Good Poast




This is me a veteran Eve player who has lead corporations , Alliances , coalitions , Owned Sov, Built Stations , Pilot Supercarrier & Titan mostly agreeing with everything you say. Despite being a *****y bittervet & member of elite pvp organization I still care about and love this game. The sandbox offers something no other game can deliver. Drama Politics metagame however the sandbox is in need of MAJOR overhaul because it is severely broken. I log into other MMO's that are well engineered and have miticulous scripted content and think to myself if only Eve was engineered this well or had this production quality.


Fix my sandbox!

♥Manny

Tentboy Rust
Posted - 2011.08.25 05:00:00 - [177]
 

An interesting idea for sovereignty, and the way capturing territory works. Also helps the idea of localism. Some sort of beacon, low health, low armor, that you must have x number of (3-4) in order to be in control. These beacons though can be anywhere in the system, allowing players to hide them in various places (asteroid fields, anomoly areas) and have them be found through the scanning function. But also have it be so that they can only be found while being semi close to them. How close being dependant on the local features of where they were hid. For ex. a beacon hidden in an ice cloud can be found from x-y distance whereas the beacon in the asteroid field can be found in the y-z distance. Where one not hidden can be found from any distance.

Halarach
Amarr
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.25 05:35:00 - [178]
 

Edited by: Halarach on 25/08/2011 05:49:37
Edited by: Halarach on 25/08/2011 05:42:02
HI CCP I THINK U DESERVE AN AWARD FOR FINALLY FIGURING OUT WHAT UR GAME SHOULD BE LIKE SINCE 8 YEARS LOL.

ALSO U CAME UP WITH REALLY INNOVATIVE IDEAS LIKE HIGH RISK = HIGH PAY, AND ALSO LOW RISK = LOW PAY.

THE WAY UR GOING TO IMPLEMENT THIS ARE CLEARLY STATED WHICH IS ALSO A BIG PLUS.

I THINK DESPITE HISTORY PROVING OTHERWISE (DOMINION, OOPS LOL), THIS TIME U'LL GET IT RIGHT BECAUSE THIS TIME U INVESTED IN A DASHBOARD, AND THE 5 YEARS ROADMAP IS REALISTIC SO I'M REALLY WILLING TO SPEND 2x 655 EUROS FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS TO SEE IT GETTING DONE, MEANWHILE I'LL JUST SPIN SHIP, WAIT NO I CAN'T, LOL

Khaka Ohino
Posted - 2011.08.25 06:03:00 - [179]
 

How is Nerfing Highsec and WH space going to get 0.0 dewellers to actually mine and produce? I know this may come as a surprise, but every player doesn't what to be in 0.0! Some of us are very happy not dealing with bubbles and bombs. As a matter of fact, I think that's the majority of the playerbase according to the (now defunct Quarterly report). Didn't they move the High Ores out of empire? Yeah, moving them to exclusively 0.0 has really improved things.

-KO

pussnheels
Amarr
Vintage heavy industries
Posted - 2011.08.25 10:07:00 - [180]
 

I really appreciate how youasked for our ideas and opinion about changing nullsec with all the feedbackthreads

I would be very interested what kind of influence those feedback threads will have on further development of this game

It is obvious that alot of people are intersted in buffing null sec but not while nerfing high sec

For me it is also obvious after reading some of those threads that some of your ideas like ice removing from high sec and wh abc nerf aren't appreciated by a majority of the poster nor is making nullsec self sufficient a good idea

But yeah i would really like to know what the devs learned from those feedbackthreads


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only