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Clintus McGintus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.15 08:03:00 - [1]
 

Talking strictly performance. With HAS and Command ship to lvl 5 which ship is better all around for solo or small gang null sec pvp?

Asuka Smith
Gallente
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Posted - 2011.08.15 09:13:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Asuka Smith on 15/08/2011 09:13:35
It depends SLIGHTLY on what you want to do. If speed is most important, more important than anything else, Zealot. Otherwise Absolution.

EDIT: I'm talking afterburning signature radius tanking RR gangs with zealots. Otherwise Absolution. That's the only thing that the Zealot does better.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.08.15 11:40:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Asuka Smith
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 15/08/2011 09:13:35
It depends SLIGHTLY on what you want to do. If speed is most important, more important than anything else, Zealot. Otherwise Absolution.

EDIT: I'm talking afterburning signature radius tanking RR gangs with zealots. Otherwise Absolution. That's the only thing that the Zealot does better.


Can I see your long range skirmishing Abso fit?

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.08.15 12:44:00 - [4]
 

The 2 ships have completely different uses...

The Zealot will have trouble solo-brawling on equal terms but works excellent in small and large fleets. Can do both good dps (about 600) while being flexible with the scorch. Also is a capable SnipeHAC and as a cruiser it's fast and has a low sig.
I guess with experience you can use it to solo but works best with friends

The Absolution is a beast in it's own, but the huge signature and slow speed means you have to know what you are doing. For solo and small scale roam it's very nice both as a sponge and a hammer - But treat it as a very short range battleship and make sure your targets are alone without support or brign friends to support you.

If you have to chose between the 2 I think the Zealot will last longer and bring you rmore joy, but be carefull as it won't have the same buffer as the Abso.

Pinky

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.15 13:16:00 - [5]
 

One thing that people tend to forget about when comparing these two ships is that the Zealot receives an optimal bonus, while the Absolution receives a resist bonus.

As such, the absolution makes a much better brawler (especially under logistics support) while the Zealot is a better skirmisher, even if you ignore the difference in form factor between cruiser and battlecruiser hulls.

Not exactly a revolutionary conclusion, but the difference is made more significant by their differing ship skill bonuses. I personally prefer the Zealot, simply because it's difficult to use the Absolution's shorter-range turrets in a proper fleet engagement and because the smaller signature radius compensates for the lack of a raw resist bonus.

Verity Sovereign
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:41:00 - [6]
 

Another difference I would add is that the Absolution can carry 5 light drones, wheras the Zealot cannot carry any - The absolution will be slightly more flexible in damage types (like you can use Warrior IIs to deal Exp damage against frigs)

He also asked about small gang PvP - being a command ship, if you gang doesn't already have a booster, I think the Absolution would be favored.

ROXGenghis
Perkone
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:21:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Verity Sovereign
Another difference I would add is that the Absolution can carry 5 light drones, wheras the Zealot cannot carry any

Also, the Abso has a utility high.

That said, I'd still enjoy flying a Zealot more...or a Nomen.

Clintus McGintus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.17 22:59:00 - [8]
 

Thanks everyone. Based on my corps current location and situation I'm going to go with an Absolution though a Zealot does look fun.

Clintus McGintus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.18 06:39:00 - [9]
 

actually, I compared my Harbinger to the Absolution and I don't really see a advantage with going with the Command ship. The Harby has more hit points, a bigger drone bay, and 1 extra turret. The only thing that the Abso has going for it is it's armor resistances and the rate of fire bonus which might even out the things I mentioned above but with a price tag of $200mil vs $35mil, why would I switch?

Maybe the Zealot would be a better choice. Purely for it's size and speed.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.18 06:57:00 - [10]
 

Yes, because a 25% RoF bonus in no way compensates for the loss of a turret, nor does a base armor resistance of [62.5,51.2,64.8,77.5] make up for the additional hitpoints a Harbinger receives at [50,35,25,20].

For those of you still still watching, that means the Absolution will do 14.3% more DPS and the Harbinger takes 87.6% more damage. But that's okay, because the Harbinger has 13.8% more hit points, right?

The Absolution is more expensive for a reason. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

Aralieus
Amarr
Shadowbane Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.18 07:42:00 - [11]
 

Get yourself a Abso, its a beast...

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.08.18 08:57:00 - [12]
 

Currently due to isk prices the Harbinger is certainly worth it. And any pilot wanting to fly Absolution should use one intensively for a few weeks before switching. Dps is about the same - As mentioned Absolution for an extra 150m isk has increased resistance and ability to fit 2 plates. Dps and maneuvrability is about the same.

Karok Vilneram
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:48:00 - [13]
 

Zealot for kiting and skirmishing.

Absolution for landing on grid and going into a beserker rage on all that stand before you.

There is a reason I have Command ships lvl V

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Karok Vilneram

Absolution for landing on grid and going into a beserker rage on all that stand before you.

There is a reason I have Command ships lvl V


Nothing to be proud of, mate, as it has always been a prerequisite for an Abso. It's less important for the rest of the lineup, though.

Pink Marshmellow
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:04:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Clintus McGintus
actually, I compared my Harbinger to the Absolution and I don't really see a advantage with going with the Command ship. The Harby has more hit points, a bigger drone bay, and 1 extra turret. The only thing that the Abso has going for it is it's armor resistances and the rate of fire bonus which might even out the things I mentioned above but with a price tag of $200mil vs $35mil, why would I switch?

Maybe the Zealot would be a better choice. Purely for it's size and speed.


Why don't you try fitting them? The harbinger cannot fit Heavy Pulse Laser II's when trying to fit 1600mm plate. So you're stuck with Focused Medium Pulses.

The Absolution can fit a full rack of Heavy Pulses with a 1600mm plate.

The Harbinger has 8.25 Effective Turret DPS with 7 turrets and 25% damage Bonus.

The Absolution has 9.975 Effective Turret DPS with 6 turrets 25% damage bonus and 25% rate of fire bonus.

Now you gotta factor in that the Harbinger can only fit focused medium pulses due to lack of powergrid (if you want to fit sufficient tank). The absolution can fit a full rack of Heavy Pulses with tank.

Heavy Pulse lasers do 16% more dps than Focused Medium Pulses.

Last but not least the absolution packs atleast double the tank of the Harbinger when both has trimarks and 1600mm plate due to the absolution's tech 2 resists plus the 25% armor resist bonus.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:24:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Pink Marshmellow
The Absolution has 9.975 Effective Turret DPS with 6 turrets 25% damage bonus and 25% rate of fire bonus.


This kinda blows your credibility, which is too bad because the rest of the post is pretty much right. But 6*4/3*5/4 = 10. Not far from 9.975, but I can't for the life of my figure out how you got it.

Clintus McGintus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.18 22:50:00 - [17]
 

You guys rock! This is exactly the type of info I needed. Thank you very much. Abso it is!

Soon Shin
Posted - 2011.08.18 23:42:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Soon Shin on 18/08/2011 23:55:29
Originally by: Zhilia Mann
Originally by: Pink Marshmellow
The Absolution has 9.975 Effective Turret DPS with 6 turrets 25% damage bonus and 25% rate of fire bonus.


This kinda blows your credibility, which is too bad because the rest of the post is pretty much right. But 6*4/3*5/4 = 10. Not far from 9.975, but I can't for the life of my figure out how you got it.


That's because he used decimals to multiply.

6 turrets x 1.25 dps bonus for damage = 7.5 turret dps. 1.25 = 5/4

Then multiple 7.5 effective turret dps x 1.33 dps bonus from rate of fire= 9.975 Effective Turret DPS.

4/3 = 1.33333333333333333333

If you stretch out the 333 decimal more you get 9.9999999999999975 Turret DPS.

He's pretty close to what you got, I don't see why you have to criticize him for a tiny fraction difference.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.19 02:15:00 - [19]
 

And...this is why fractions are better than decimals for working with rational numbers.

If you ever have to calculate fractional exponents or trigonometric functions, sure, go to decimals and rounding -- but when everything is going to be the ratio of one integer to another, decimal notation just introduces rounding errors.

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.08.19 11:40:00 - [20]
 

Sure Absolution is a beast even compared to the harbinger, but it also cost 3x as much...

Aralieus
Amarr
Shadowbane Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.19 19:13:00 - [21]
 

A lot of what's being said in this thread is fairly accurate, I just want to add that flying a zealot is a load of fun (granted if fit properly to the situation) just plug your Thermal hole cause Hobs/Hammers are pretty common on the battlefield. Its great if your aim is to sig/speed tank w/ a overloaded 10mn AB on. You can very easily apply sustained dps with Lasers (FML or HPL). The only true disadvantage you might get caught in with your pants down is the lack of a drone bay. Intys can ruin your day. Not so much that you can't tank them but they can keep you on the field till his buddies arrive. As far as the abso goes its a Harb on meth. There is a reason it costs 3x as much. Justification is in the eyes of the person fitting it. Its either worth it to you or not.

Clintus McGintus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.20 08:17:00 - [22]
 

can you guys give me some of your fits for the Absolution? Battleclinic doesn't seem too promising at the moment. Looking for a WH PVE setup and of course a solo pvp setup. Thanks.

Pink Marshmellow
Posted - 2011.08.20 17:11:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Pink Marshmellow on 20/08/2011 17:17:37
[Absolution, Bloody tears]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Imperial Navy Small Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Warrior II x5

120K EHP

807 DPS with IN MF
660 DPS with Scorch
900 DPS with Conflagration

You can swap the faction for Tech 2 and it will work just fine. The tech 2 rig is not necessary tech 1 should do.

I just have a lot of isk laying around, and the legion is rather lacking when the zealot is only a tiny bit less effective for a much cheaper cost. The Absolution outganks both by a lot of dps and it actually has drones to defend itself against small frigs. Therefore I tend to spend quite a bit on it.

CyberRaver
Wildly Inappropriate
Posted - 2011.08.21 09:54:00 - [24]
 

I pvp'd in my abso a lot, and it always managed to out muscle and out tank most fights, expecially when the poor fleet picked it as the primary target, slaves and hardwirings make it stupidly hard to crack
That being said i will always love a harby <3

You can even run a rack of mega pulses + a command module for more resists

Clintus McGintus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.21 21:32:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Pink Marshmellow
Edited by: Pink Marshmellow on 20/08/2011 17:17:37
[Absolution, Bloody tears]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Imperial Navy Small Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Warrior II x5

120K EHP

807 DPS with IN MF
660 DPS with Scorch
900 DPS with Conflagration

You can swap the faction for Tech 2 and it will work just fine. The tech 2 rig is not necessary tech 1 should do.

I just have a lot of isk laying around, and the legion is rather lacking when the zealot is only a tiny bit less effective for a much cheaper cost. The Absolution outganks both by a lot of dps and it actually has drones to defend itself against small frigs. Therefore I tend to spend quite a bit on it.


No armor repair?

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.08.21 22:19:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Clintus McGintus
Originally by: Pink Marshmellow
Edited by: Pink Marshmellow on 20/08/2011 17:17:37
[Absolution, Bloody tears]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Imperial Navy Small Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Warrior II x5

120K EHP

807 DPS with IN MF
660 DPS with Scorch
900 DPS with Conflagration

You can swap the faction for Tech 2 and it will work just fine. The tech 2 rig is not necessary tech 1 should do.

I just have a lot of isk laying around, and the legion is rather lacking when the zealot is only a tiny bit less effective for a much cheaper cost. The Absolution outganks both by a lot of dps and it actually has drones to defend itself against small frigs. Therefore I tend to spend quite a bit on it.


No armor repair?


Armor repairs are for solo or very small gangs. Absolution is not fast enough to solo effectively in most cases.

Clintus McGintus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.22 06:03:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Clintus McGintus
Originally by: Pink Marshmellow
Edited by: Pink Marshmellow on 20/08/2011 17:17:37
[Absolution, Bloody tears]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Imperial Navy Small Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Warrior II x5

120K EHP

807 DPS with IN MF
660 DPS with Scorch
900 DPS with Conflagration

You can swap the faction for Tech 2 and it will work just fine. The tech 2 rig is not necessary tech 1 should do.

I just have a lot of isk laying around, and the legion is rather lacking when the zealot is only a tiny bit less effective for a much cheaper cost. The Absolution outganks both by a lot of dps and it actually has drones to defend itself against small frigs. Therefore I tend to spend quite a bit on it.


No armor repair?


Armor repairs are for solo or very small gangs. Absolution is not fast enough to solo effectively in most cases.


Well that's pretty much what I asked for. Solo PVP and/or WormHole PVE. This setup is pretty much what I found and the one I setup in EFT says I'm short by 1 on power grid.

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.08.22 13:29:00 - [28]
 

Use a named neutralizer instead of the T2...

Aralieus
Amarr
Shadowbane Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.22 17:06:00 - [29]
 

If your aim is solo/small gang you are in fact better off with the Abso. Fit a minimum of 2 HS's and the rest tank in lows. Mids should be MWD, Cap Booster and disruptor. A rack of HPL's. Warriors in drone bay. The key is not to have to many HS's and not enough tank, HG Slaves and +5% implants well be your friend to the end in that respect. If you don't have logi support get a little fancy with your fitting, if you do stay T2 and use 3 HS's. Best of luck to you 0/

Clintus McGintus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.23 03:23:00 - [30]
 

Just to confirm, you guys are saying to run this setup for both solo/small gang PVP AND wormhole PVE?


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