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Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.14 15:53:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 14/08/2011 15:54:23
So, I am having trouble finding a real good purpose for beams. It seems like the only decent and even usable long range weapon systems are artillery. In pve, it takes my apoc ridiculous amounts of powergrid just to fit medium sized T1 beams on its hull, and I need fititng rigs just to put even a small amount of tank on it. I have max fitting skills, is this not a problem in itself?

When trying to do missions with beams, half the time they warp you right in on top of the enemy and with the little to no tank you are forced to work with when equipping beams, you get eaten alive before you can even get out of range. Of course they can not hit anything worth a damn up close, which I understand is the intended purpose, but it makes things very difficult when you can't warp to a mission at your own range discretion and you are trying to use beams with almost no tank ability because of the massive PG requirment for them.

Pvp they are even less effective seeing as they can not hit the broadside of a barn at any range really when using t2 crystals, again cause you have no tank, mediocre damage, and obvious inability to keep a target from running. So why even have yet another useless weapon system in the game?

It seems like the only decent weapon systems are minmatar, along with everything else in the game.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.14 17:09:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 14/08/2011 17:10:46
1) All long range weapons have fitting issues. You're compounding this by trying to use them on a ship that is designed to use pulse lasers (the apoc).

2) If your mission is full of rats that orbit at close range, either a) Don't use long range weapons or b) Kite them.

3) In PVP beams apply more DPS at range in a sniper config than any other turret weapon system. Arty have the alpha, but beams have sustained DPS that is higher. These fits are not designed for solo, so your fleet mates should have no issues "keeping the target from running"

4) Pretty much every weapon system is viable for PVP, (inb4 lol hybrids) but there will always be situations where one or another is better than another.

Versuvius Marii
Posted - 2011.08.14 21:54:00 - [3]
 

Beams are designed for ranged warfare, not in-your-face stuff. Use pulses. Troll harder.

Dorian Tormak
M0N0LITH
Posted - 2011.08.14 21:57:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Versuvius Marii
Beams are designed for ranged warfare, not in-your-face stuff. Use pulses. Troll harder.


Actually beams can do some pretty cool close range stuff in certain situations.

Beam Harby, for instance, the beams use less PG than pulses and let's you fit some bigger plate, etc without losing too much dps.

Anyway they don't need working.

Chase08888
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.15 04:13:00 - [5]
 

Quote:
medium sized T1 beams

Am i the only person that noticed that?

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.15 04:37:00 - [6]
 

I think he might be referring to the medium tier, rather than those intended for cruisers.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.15 06:32:00 - [7]
 

Artillery just got buffed and now fit in with the new world order of instant probe hits and alpha damage .. might not have been intentional on CCPs part but there you have it.
Beams and Rails are still "old" and as such designed to operate at ranges that are suicidal in todays Eve, hence they are not used outside of PvE.

Even the mighty sniper-zeal has been decommissioned in favour of HP/TE versions or just plain brawlers.

In Short: Beams/Rails have no place outside of PvE at the moment

Nero Maxvell
Posted - 2011.08.15 08:36:00 - [8]
 

i'd like to point out that many paladin and nightmare fits use tachs

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.08.15 08:47:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
You're compounding this by trying to use them on a ship that is designed to use pulse lasers (the apoc).


the apoc isn't designed to use pulses.
it's just that they work well with the apoc's optimal range bonus.

also no ship besides the pally/nightmare can fit a full rack of tachyons, which are, for all purposes and effects, a "super turret" (a tier above the megabeam, 1400mm arty and 425mm rail).

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.15 11:31:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
You're compounding this by trying to use them on a ship that is designed to use pulse lasers (the apoc).


the apoc isn't designed to use pulses.
it's just that they work well with the apoc's optimal range bonus.

also no ship besides the pally/nightmare can fit a full rack of tachyons, which are, for all purposes and effects, a "super turret" (a tier above the megabeam, 1400mm arty and 425mm rail).


For PVE, it's really the only way to go, which is the complaint she seemed to be making (no viable PVE beam fit) ... which tbh is wrong, anyway. If anything, PVE fits on the Apoc are CPU limited, and more than a little cap intensive.

Given the whine she puts out in the other threads, I'm starting to think she bought this character and it has some essential skills missing.

Nero Maxvell
Posted - 2011.08.15 12:04:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Grimpak

also no ship besides the pally/nightmare can fit a full rack of tachyons...

You can make meta tachs fit on an abaddon, with perfect skills and 5% pg implant if my memory serves me right Razz I don't know if it's any good though, cap is problably going to be a b****.

Meta tachs should also fit on a navy apoc


Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.15 13:26:00 - [12]
 

Tachyons are the only beam lasers worth talking about. They're only useful because their base damage will let multifrequency outperform pulse lasers with scorch. They do this at the expense of powergrid, capacitor, and tracking -- you know, basically everything you care about in a turret besides damage.

Trying to justify beam lasers as a whole by one highly restricted version is disingenuous. Beam lasers as a whole haven't been useful since Apocrypha. Even tachyons have been relegated to PvE. And for the record, railguns are even worse.

Akisa Damaar
Posted - 2011.08.15 13:38:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Akisa Damaar on 15/08/2011 13:39:45
I am flying an Apoc with T1 beams at the moment and I am doing fine:

[Apocalypse, beams]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Power Diagnostic System II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

PG wise this fit works with Engineering 5 and Adwanced Weapon Upgrades 3.

With my skills this setup has 40+24 km optimal, while switching to "mega modulated pulse energy beams" it will drop to 21+11km. While the pulses will of course outdamage the beams in close combat, the beams will outperform the pulses for anything past the 35km range (you have to use weaker and weaker crystals to get the necessary range on the pulses). And by my (limited) experience with level 4 missions you more often than not need the range > 35km to hit stuff.

Things will of course change dramatically once you can use T2 pulses with scorch.

Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.15 13:42:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Grimpak


also no ship besides the pally/nightmare can fit a full rack of tachyons, which are, for all purposes and effects, a "super turret" (a tier above the megabeam, 1400mm arty and 425mm rail).


Bhaal can also fit a full set of tachs.

As far as megabeams go(which still do most DPS of all long range weapons) they will fit in an abby without any mods implants or w/e, which for instance cannot be said about fitting 425mm rails in a rokh - it needs grid mod.

Beams are the weapons with the highest DPS of all long ranged turrets.

If you want to complain do so about the rails - they have the lowest DPS, they don't have alpha, they use plenty of cap to fire, they are the worst long range turrets in existence, which coupled with the blasters being so ... useless is even a worse thing than if taken on it's own.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.08.16 18:35:00 - [15]
 

I stand corrected on the tachy fitting thing then.


 

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