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Romani4
Amarr
Blind Care Beer
RED Citizens
Posted - 2011.08.14 15:35:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Romani4 on 14/08/2011 15:40:23
Hi there!
Maybe we, miners, can have a low sec (lice carriers, rorqual and other capital ships) minig barge? It may be Capital Ship and have new "capital mining lasers".

Like Rorqual - but only for mining?

  1. 6, or more, mining lasers

  2. large ore bay - skill based capacity

  3. increase mining lasers range - skill based %

  4. mining lasers bonuses, like MLU - skill based %

  5. built-in resource scaner with skill based range

  6. bonuses for ore mining drones


This list is only my POV, maybe 0.0 miners have same needs...

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.14 17:01:00 - [2]
 

I too want to make botting even easier.

Romani4
Amarr
Blind Care Beer
RED Citizens
Posted - 2011.08.14 18:30:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Danika Princip
I too want to make botting even easier.

botting... we make it manual))))) truly meditation!!! Cool

Scorpina
Posted - 2011.08.14 18:34:00 - [4]
 

Botting? In low sec or 0.0 is a sure fire way to get podded by roams. A low sec mining ship is a good idea. My suggestion would be make it able to be able to escape from rats ect but do not make it so it has the armor, shields and structure or a normal cap ship. In short, it can be killed much easier than a standard cap ship force the pilot to remain vigilant against rats and players.

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.14 19:04:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Scorpina
Botting? In low sec or 0.0 is a sure fire way to get podded by roams. A low sec mining ship is a good idea. My suggestion would be make it able to be able to escape from rats ect but do not make it so it has the armor, shields and structure or a normal cap ship. In short, it can be killed much easier than a standard cap ship force the pilot to remain vigilant against rats and players.



there is and always has been a LOT of botting in null. Even if we for the moment assume that there is none, all this would do is force mineral prices lower, and do you miner sorts want to make even less isk?

Romani4
Amarr
Blind Care Beer
RED Citizens
Posted - 2011.08.14 19:47:00 - [6]
 

We don`t talk about botting... We need low sec capital like ship... Or something like that.Cool

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.14 21:50:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Romani4
We don`t talk about botting... We need low sec capital like ship... Or something like that.Cool


Alright then. A ship like this, that I assume would mine more than a hulk, will crash the mineral market. Why do you want that?

Art ofWar
Posted - 2011.08.15 05:57:00 - [8]
 

We want mine more for less))) That is normal, I think. Progress in this direction was stopped long time ago... Where new tech? Where new modifications? We need some new stuff.
Economic... Economy need a little shake-up! More minerals -> more ships and other stuff -> more (insert what U need)!

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.08.15 07:13:00 - [9]
 

just use mining drones with the rorqual and fill the cargo... miners dont need a new ship that mines more ore.
someone suggested a t3 cruiser mod that will make a worthwhile for mining, it would be less then a average hulk pilot and looked fine to me

or, get this,
1 rorqual in a pos
1 orca in the belt
4 hulks in the belt
1 battleship ratting the belts and on call if ur little group is under attack
orca hauls ore to the rorqual that compresses it hulks perma mine into cans
rats are killed by drones + ratting BS
enemy in local = warp to pos

Romani4
Amarr
Blind Care Beer
RED Citizens
Posted - 2011.08.15 07:53:00 - [10]
 

Believe me - we just make mining like U advice. But I talk about brand new tesh... Need some new thing to make miners life more happier.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.15 08:27:00 - [11]
 

The problem isn't how much people can mine...

the problem is that minerals are too abundant as it is.

1. Kill the bots (yes, they are a problem. yes, they would *all* get this capship).

2. Introduce scarcity of minerals somehow
(blow more ships up, higher mineral needs, etc)

3. ???

4. profit!


without (1) and (2), all you do is push the value of the minerals lower and lower...

Once you have (1) and (2) working well, *then* a bigger mining vessel may be warranted. Until then, not so much.

Romani4
Amarr
Blind Care Beer
RED Citizens
Posted - 2011.08.15 08:34:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Romani4 on 15/08/2011 08:41:29
Edited by: Romani4 on 15/08/2011 08:38:02
True...
for (1) there can be "capcha" or "planetary style" tool.
With "capcha" - all clear, but it`s annoying!!! Deny this!!!
With "planetary style" - open new "asteroid screen" with manual targeting system for each laser. Resource scanners can take some advantages to pilot for finding some "critical places of targeting" for faster mining... It should filter all bot`s... IMHO.

Finally - It should work!

Lin-Young Borovskova
Posted - 2011.08.15 13:07:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Danika Princip
I too want to make botting even easier.


In null for sure

In high sec, probably

In low sec sure not, waiting for months to see those come in to our place but seems they don't like it YARRRR!!

Romani4
Amarr
Blind Care Beer
RED Citizens
Posted - 2011.08.16 07:42:00 - [14]
 

Any one have any ideas, except "botting"?Very Happy

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.08.16 09:13:00 - [15]
 

do u not understand, that if a ship was made that made mining easier mineral prices could drop further.....
what needs to happen is mineral prices have to get absurdly high because CCP decided to ban bots, then a large universe wide war starts ( which would be awsome btw) then when the supply of minerals drops rapidly and demand increases, a new ship that can mine faster will be worth it.

tell u what
u get new ship that mines 2 times as much as a hulk
u can't sell ore for more then 1 isk each though.

Tribunia
Posted - 2011.08.16 13:23:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Tribunia on 16/08/2011 13:25:37
Originally by: Danika Princip
A ship like this, that I assume would mine more than a hulk, will crash the mineral market.


CCP introduced drone compounds and ****ed up l4 loot tables so why not a lowsec cap mining ship? Laughing

Seriously, the problem is with compounds and l4 mission loot. Remove compounds, set bointies on droones and nerf l4 loot tables, then we could have a lowsec cap mining ship.

//EDIT Oh yeah, make a serious effort to remove the bot armadas too Very Happy

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.16 13:30:00 - [17]
 

The Skiff is the lowsec mining barge.

Since bubbles make it's primary role as ninja Mercoxit miner obsolete, the only real role left for it is a lowsec miner that has an above average chance of making it to station with a full load.

Ceelah
Posted - 2011.08.16 14:53:00 - [18]
 

The four basic laws of supply and demand are:

1. If demand increases and supply remains unchanged, then it leads to higher price and quantity.
2. If demand decreases and supply remains unchanged, then it leads to lower price and quantity.
3. If supply increases and demand remains unchanged, then it leads to lower price and higher quantity.
4. If supply decreases and demand remains unchanged, then it leads to higher price and lower quantity.

Ore and Mineral prices are already too low. If you make it easier for people to obtain high value ore in high risk areas you will drive prices down even further. One year after CCP introduces a better faster exhumer, when everyone has trained the skills, bought the ship, and written the bot script, prices will fall through the floor.

No thanks. EVE doesn't need a better roid grinder, and some people have too many grinders as it is.

+1 for hulkaggedon in the Red regions.


Romani4
Amarr
Blind Care Beer
RED Citizens
Posted - 2011.08.17 07:51:00 - [19]
 

Sad
That`s right... Only "Atni-Bot" will make new ship to real...

Orian Okha
Posted - 2011.08.17 12:35:00 - [20]
 

Eve realy doesnt need ship with 6 strip miners. What mining profession realy need is ship with tank, agility and speed (and maybe covert cloak miner). Only with this kind of ship players would take a trip to lowsec.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 13:31:00 - [21]
 

Of course, this also brings up the question of why, of all the Gallente drone boats, only the Vexor has the drone mining bonus.

It appears that the Myrmidon has a Vexor drone control system, except that bit was cut out for mysterious reasons (made all the more mysterious by it giving the Myrmidon, a Tier 2 BC, fewer bonuses than a Tier 1 cruiser). Maybe the Dominix doesn't have it because no real military man would be caught dead flying a ship that had a mining bonus, so when they upgraded the system to battleship class they left that part out as well.

Of course, once they left it out of the BS class drone control system, nobody *dared* to put it back in for the Moros, Nyx, or Thanatos. The uprising from the military class would have been devastating to their market.

But I'll just bet that some smart-### engineer left the connector for the mining boost module in all of those designs (or maybe even the module itself, just disabled), just to raise the finger at the crazy military people she had to work with.

Ha-ha! that super elite carrier you are flying? It has *mining bonuses* :P

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:00:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Of course, this also brings up the question of why, of all the Gallente drone boats, only the Vexor has the drone mining bonus.



Because it's the "Mining Cruiser" for the Gallente.

Caldari get the Osprey
Minmatar get the Scythe
Amarr get the Arbitrator.


No one has a "mining battleship", but they can mine fairly well.

When the game came out:

Frigs - everyone had
Cruisers - easy to get into
Battleships - holy veldspar batman! that guy is rich!

(no dessies or BC til Exodus)

Even when I started (2007), Battleships weren't *everywhere* like they are today.

When the mining barges came out (Exodus, Nov. '04... about 18 mos after launch), there was then no need to have the retrofitted battleships for mining....

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:08:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Velicitia
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Of course, this also brings up the question of why, of all the Gallente drone boats, only the Vexor has the drone mining bonus.



Because it's the "Mining Cruiser" for the Gallente.

Caldari get the Osprey
Minmatar get the Scythe
Amarr get the Arbitrator.


No one has a "mining battleship", but they can mine fairly well.

When the game came out:

Frigs - everyone had
Cruisers - easy to get into
Battleships - holy veldspar batman! that guy is rich!

(no dessies or BC til Exodus)

Even when I started (2007), Battleships weren't *everywhere* like they are today.

When the mining barges came out (Exodus, Nov. '04... about 18 mos after launch), there was then no need to have the retrofitted battleships for mining....

But that only makes "game design sense". It doesn't make "world sense".

There are people playing the game now who fly Nyx's that would actually complain if a mining bonus were added to it (with no other changes).

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:06:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse

But that only makes "game design sense". It doesn't make "world sense".

There are people playing the game now who fly Nyx's that would actually complain if a mining bonus were added to it (with no other changes).


However, that has nothing to do with *why* nothing else was given the mining bonuses (i.e. the "world" as defined by the game design).


If you want a "world sense reason" for this:
Prior to the rise of the capsuleers, the (for the most part, purpose-built) frigates and retrofitted cruisers were "good enough" to supply the needs of the empires.

Capsuleers put huge strains on those empire supply lines, causing Outer Ring Excavations to look into larger purpose-built ships for material extraction. In essence, ORE "beat" the empires to the "better mining vessels" with new designs, rather than retrofits.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:02:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Velicitia
Originally by: Newt Rondanse

But that only makes "game design sense". It doesn't make "world sense".

There are people playing the game now who fly Nyx's that would actually complain if a mining bonus were added to it (with no other changes).


However, that has nothing to do with *why* nothing else was given the mining bonuses (i.e. the "world" as defined by the game design).


If you want a "world sense reason" for this:
Prior to the rise of the capsuleers, the (for the most part, purpose-built) frigates and retrofitted cruisers were "good enough" to supply the needs of the empires.

Capsuleers put huge strains on those empire supply lines, causing Outer Ring Excavations to look into larger purpose-built ships for material extraction. In essence, ORE "beat" the empires to the "better mining vessels" with new designs, rather than retrofits.

Yes, that's the storyline explanation. I get that. I also completely understand the game-design logic that lead to the current situation. The ship lineup has certain slots, and the ships are designed to fit those slots, but because the process used doesn't use anything like real-life design and acquisition processes you get situations that don't make sense.

As I noted above, the Myrmidon (a late addition to the Gallente lineup) appears to have been fit with a crippleware Vexor-class drone control system.
This just screams for some enterprising grey-market hacker to either swap them out for a real Vexor-class DCM or to enable the disabled portions of the one that is there.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:22:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Velicitia on 17/08/2011 16:22:35
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Originally by: Velicitia
Originally by: Newt Rondanse

But that only makes "game design sense". It doesn't make "world sense".

There are people playing the game now who fly Nyx's that would actually complain if a mining bonus were added to it (with no other changes).


However, that has nothing to do with *why* nothing else was given the mining bonuses (i.e. the "world" as defined by the game design).


If you want a "world sense reason" for this:
Prior to the rise of the capsuleers, the (for the most part, purpose-built) frigates and retrofitted cruisers were "good enough" to supply the needs of the empires.

Capsuleers put huge strains on those empire supply lines, causing Outer Ring Excavations to look into larger purpose-built ships for material extraction. In essence, ORE "beat" the empires to the "better mining vessels" with new designs, rather than retrofits.

Yes, that's the storyline explanation. I get that. I also completely understand the game-design logic that lead to the current situation. The ship lineup has certain slots, and the ships are designed to fit those slots, but because the process used doesn't use anything like real-life design and acquisition processes you get situations that don't make sense.

As I noted above, the Myrmidon (a late addition to the Gallente lineup) appears to have been fit with a crippleware Vexor-class drone control system.
This just screams for some enterprising grey-market hacker to either swap them out for a real Vexor-class DCM or to enable the disabled portions of the one that is there.



(IC Reason) Because it came out *with* the advent of the ORE ships, the Federation used the same drone control computer as the Domi, rather than using the retrofits that were added to the Vexor.

Original stats of the Myrmi let it field a flight of heavies... it's been nerfed since (bandwidth...). It's not "crippleware" Vexor stats... it's Domi stats in a smaller package (well, crippled because of the damn bandwidth).

Myrmi:

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% increase to drone hitpoints and damage dealt by drones...


Domi:

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: ... 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:38:00 - [27]
 

The Vexor-class Drone Control Module supporting 75U drone bandwidth with bonuses to drone damage, HP, and mining already existed when the Myrmidon was built with a DCM with the same stats, but lacking the mining bonus.

In real-life engineering terms this only makes milspec sense. The Myrmidon wasn't specified to have mining capabilities, so even though the design house reused the Vexor-class DCM they had to disable the mining boost logic for it to pass design review.

But now Myrmidons are being built by and for commercial interests and even pirate organizatons. None of these groups have any interest in the original milspec, and they all have access to the blueprints for the original Vexor-class DCM as well, and nobody has had the bright idea to just put the superior Vexor-class DCM in a Myrmidon?

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:23:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
(stuff)


The bandwidth limit was added much later than the introduction of the Myrmidon, so that has no bearing on whether or not the Myrmidon was originally designed with the "Vexor Drone Control" or not.

However, since the "Drone Control" is incapable of providing better mining capabilities to drones, it goes to reason that the Myrmidon has the *DOMINIX* drone computer or whatever...

I.E. --> it never had the capability to "calibrate" the mining yields, and you can't do a simple "unlock" of the code to do so since it was never there in the first place to have been "locked"

Romani4
Amarr
Blind Care Beer
RED Citizens
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:29:00 - [29]
 

Hi all.. Mayby this talking go in wrong direction? I start this topic about new ship... Only need that ;) I have tried many fits.. but... ORE ship - this is ORE ships.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.19 11:42:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Romani4
Hi all.. Mayby this talking go in wrong direction? I start this topic about new ship... Only need that ;) I have tried many fits.. but... ORE ship - this is ORE ships.

You wanted a ship for mining in lowsec. The skiff fills the bill fairly well, but it could use a tweak or two to make it more suitable. Bringing the Vexor's mining boost to the higher-end Gallente drone ships would make them suitable as well.

CCP has outright said that they will release no ship that can out-mine a Hulk, so unless they change their mind on that going bigger is a non-starter.


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