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Mc Geezax
Posted - 2011.08.13 17:44:00 - [1]
 

Long time MMO player, but new to EVE. I'm currently flying around in a Raven and my current DPS seems to be ~200, as calculated by damage per volley against unresistant battleship hull (~2200) and dividing by the time between volleys (~12s).

My goal is to quickly start to solo L4 combat missions for ISK/LP. When researching, I found people recommending a CNR with different fittings that should do 600+ DPS. I've looked at most if not all dps skill/mod upgrades that I could get and I don't understand how I can reach anywhere near that. Here is what I've found so far.

1) CNR has extra launcher over regular Raven (+300 base dmg)
2) Faction launchers with faction missiles (-2.2s base rof, +315 base dmg)
3) Could use 4 BCU II (currently using 2 BCU I) (+17% rof, +16% dmg)
4) Could raise BS 2, Rapid Launch 3 and Cruise 3 skills all to 5 (+21% rof, +10% dmg)

So doing the math (yes, i'm multiplying the %), 3591 dmg and ~8 second rof which is about 450 dps. And to be honest, I doubt i'll be using faction ammo since it is so expensive. I'm sure the math is partially inaccurate, it's more of an estimation as I'm not taking into account the multipliers for stuff I already have (like missile op 5), but I still don't see how I can ever reach 600+.

So...what am I missing? I could install damage rigs but everybody recommends to use Rigor to help hit cruisers. I am trying to start doing L4 missions as soon as possible, but with the time it will take to train BS to 5 alone I could already be in a Tengu ready to go.

Magnus Veyr
Posted - 2011.08.13 17:50:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Magnus Veyr on 13/08/2011 17:53:49
Have a look at this, this'll do close to 600 dps on the launchers alone, and some more due to drones.

[Raven Navy Issue, lvl 4 Guristas optimised]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Gravimetric Backup Array II

Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


Hobgoblin II x5
Ogre II x3


Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.08.13 18:01:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Mc Geezax
4) Could raise BS 2, Rapid Launch 3 and Cruise 3 skills all to 5 (+21% rof, +10% dmg)


What about the Warhead Upgrades skill?

Mc Geezax
Posted - 2011.08.13 18:20:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Salpad

What about the Warhead Upgrades skill?



Ah thanks, I thought I was missing something. I guess I am starting to see how everything multiplies and stacks with each other to dramatically increase your dps more as skills raise.

Still I'm not sure if the CNR is a good idea if it takes so many skills to do good DPS. I am worried that in the time that it takes to get BS 5 alone I could already be in a Tengu doing near optimal DPS in level 4 missions.

tagen young
Caldari
The Night Witch
Posted - 2011.08.13 20:45:00 - [5]
 

4) Could raise BS 2, Rapid Launch 3 and Cruise 3 skills all to 5 (+21% rof, +10% dmg)

Step away from that battleship now.

You dont need BS5 and maxed out skills, but you appear to be severely underpowered in your training. I wouldnt even undock a ship without the skill at 4.


Demon Azrakel
Gallente
Defiant..
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.08.13 21:56:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: tagen young
4) Could raise BS 2, Rapid Launch 3 and Cruise 3 skills all to 5 (+21% rof, +10% dmg)

Step away from that battleship now.

You dont need BS5 and maxed out skills, but you appear to be severely underpowered in your training. I wouldnt even undock a ship without the skill at 4.




He is running missions, not pvping. Try out EFT to see what you can do. Also, realize that when people talk about X dps fits, they usually do the math with all level 5 skills.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.08.13 23:10:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Demon Azrakel
He is running missions, not pvping. Try out EFT to see what you can do. Also, realize that when people talk about X dps fits, they usually do the math with all level 5 skills.


Some of us are so close to having 5 in everything that it's not worth the bother of trying to figure out how to get EFT to speak API.

Still, in general, getting the ship skill to level 5 is highly recommended. Even for noobs. The real problem is a noob flying a BS. With low skillz like that, he belongs in a Drake, flying level 3s.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.14 02:16:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 14/08/2011 02:21:39


Well, let's see... even with good but not awesome skills (mostly L4, a few L5) and meta 4 and 5 mods (no meta 6 nor higher), in a regular Raven, you get:

Arbalest Cruise (meta 4) launchers -> 17.6 sec base RoF
T1 ammo -> 300 damage per missile
6 launchers on Raven before ANY skills -> 6*300/17.6 ~= 102.3 DPS in a barenaked config

L5 missile launcher operation (needed for cruise missiles) -> -10% RoF -> 113.63 DPS so far
L4 rapid launch -> -12% RoF -> roughly 129 DPS so far
L4 cruise missiles -> +20% damage -> roughly 155 DPS so far
L4 warhead upgrades -> +8% damage -> roughly 167 DPS so far
L4 Caldari Battleship -> -20% RoF -> roughly 209 DPS so far
3x T2 ballistic controls -> roughly -23.54 RoF and +26.38 DPS -> roughly 346 DPS so far
+3% cruise missile damage and -3% missile RoF implants -> roughly 367 DPS so far

flight of 5x T2 medium caldari drones ("Vespa II") with L4 combat drone op, L3 caldari drone spec and L4 drone interfacing -> roughly 120 DPS

grand total : 487 DPS


Obviously, if you switch to T2 launchers on a CNR (with a modest L3 in the cruise spec skill), that's 1 additional launcher over 6, so +16.66% DPS from that, another *1.25/1.2 from L5 cruise missiles (prerequisite for T2 launchers) and -6% launcher RoF (on the same base as Arbalest), you get roughly 475 missile DPS plus 120 drone DPS for 595 total DPS so far.

Switch implants to 5% versions, and you get 494 missile DPS plus 120 drone DPS for 614 DPS total.

And we're still not using faction ammo, nor faction launchers, nor CONCORD 6% implants, nor faction ballistic controls (just the three T2 ballistic controls), and we have not maxed-out the skill-based damage potential either (neither for missiles nor drones) so it's obvious the numbers can get even higher.


P.S. Using faction ammo does pay off usually, and it's especially true for noticeably-less-than-perfect builds, because battleship NPCs can tank quite nastily compared to really low damage output builds, so even a small improvement in overall DPS can translate into a HUGE improvement in killing time.
The ISK/hour improvement derived from savings in time needed to complete the missions will usually more than pay for the ammo, especially early on. Later on, it becomes less important.

Cuchulain Spartan
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:53:00 - [9]
 

Try Eve HQ for testing fits without actually spending the ISK and crunching the numbers yourself.

Kraven Stark
Caldari
Atavism Industries
Posted - 2011.08.16 13:55:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Mc Geezax
Long time MMO player, but new to EVE. I'm currently flying around in a Raven and my current DPS seems to be ~200, as calculated by damage per volley against unresistant battleship hull (~2200) and dividing by the time between volleys (~12s).

My goal is to quickly start to solo L4 combat missions for ISK/LP. When researching, I found people recommending a CNR with different fittings that should do 600+ DPS. I've looked at most if not all dps skill/mod upgrades that I could get and I don't understand how I can reach anywhere near that. Here is what I've found so far.

1) CNR has extra launcher over regular Raven (+300 base dmg)
2) Faction launchers with faction missiles (-2.2s base rof, +315 base dmg)
3) Could use 4 BCU II (currently using 2 BCU I) (+17% rof, +16% dmg)
4) Could raise BS 2, Rapid Launch 3 and Cruise 3 skills all to 5 (+21% rof, +10% dmg)

So doing the math (yes, i'm multiplying the %), 3591 dmg and ~8 second rof which is about 450 dps. And to be honest, I doubt i'll be using faction ammo since it is so expensive. I'm sure the math is partially inaccurate, it's more of an estimation as I'm not taking into account the multipliers for stuff I already have (like missile op 5), but I still don't see how I can ever reach 600+.

So...what am I missing? I could install damage rigs but everybody recommends to use Rigor to help hit cruisers. I am trying to start doing L4 missions as soon as possible, but with the time it will take to train BS to 5 alone I could already be in a Tengu ready to go.


Holy wow man! You may want to consider stepping backwards into a Drake. I would put a lot of ISK down saying that you would have an easier time with missions than you currently do in your Raven.

One thing newbies rarely understand is just because you can fly a new ship doesn't mean you can come close to effectively flying a new ship.

The jumps from frig to cruiser, and to a lesser extent, to BCs are pretty gentle, but the jump to BS is a different story all together.

Example questions about lvl 4 missions:

1. How long does it take you to do room clearing missions?

2. How often do you have to warp out on some of the bigger missions?

3. How many missions do you have to skip because you know you wont be able to complete them?


Bloemkoolsaus
Posted - 2011.08.17 11:38:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Bloemkoolsaus on 17/08/2011 11:40:16
Originally by: Mc Geezax
And to be honest, I doubt i'll be using faction ammo since it is so expensive.

Originally by: Mc Geezax
but with the time it will take to train BS to 5 alone I could already be in a Tengu ready to go.


If you are finding faction ammo to expensive, then I think the Tengu is out of reach for now. The Tengu is easy skillwise, but a decent fit Tengu can be quite an investment.

Battleship to 4 should do. Only train 5 if you plan on going caldari capitals, wich you shouldn't for now.

Ruban Spangler
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.08.20 09:10:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Ruban Spangler on 20/08/2011 09:10:44
Starting with the cheap/free stuff. Start playing with EFT to understand what you can do with different setups. Evemon is helpful for browsing skills, fittings, implants and and modules. Post your current fit and let people comment. One in ten of the responses will be constructive. Know your missions and how to blitz them (eve-survival used to be one of the best). There is no point spending hours struggling through a mission if all you have to do is jump thorough a gate e.g. recon 1 of 3. If you are concentrating on missions then ensure your skills are concentrating on your gank or tank and try not to get too distracted.

Originally by: Mc Geezax
I doubt i'll be using faction ammo since it is so expensive.
Hmmm if isk is an issue then this will not be so helpful.

Caldari ships that breeze through level 4's. Tengu, Golem, Nighthawk, CNR
Officer and faction modules make a big difference for low skill requirement. Navy BCU's and launchers in particular.
Implants. You can boost your dps or tank further with skill implants. Once you have the standing you can create a jump close so that your expensive implants don't get lost if you venture into lowsec.

If I was starting out again and could afford it I'd probably go for a HML Tengu.


 

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