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Tom Gerard
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.08.13 12:19:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Tom Gerard on 13/08/2011 12:23:26

So I was reading and it looks like AMD has an APU, which is a single chip that contains both a GPU and CPU. According to AMD I will be able to get HD6500 series performance.

These chips run as cheap as $120, does EVE support APU?

Basically what I am after is if this actually works is a EVE capable PC for under $200.


Romar Agent
Posted - 2011.08.13 12:38:00 - [2]
 

More likely $2,000...

Coffe's Babe
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.13 13:28:00 - [3]
 

Work a month... get a 2000 dollar pc... don't care for 5 years..

The time invested in finding and building up a 200 dollar decent PC could be used to make 10 times more cold hard cash.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.13 14:07:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 13/08/2011 14:13:06
Originally by: Tom Gerard
Basically what I am after is if this actually works is a EVE capable PC for under $200.

Even if the "CPU+GPU" APU combo costs 120$, good luck actually building a whole PC for just 80$ extra (MoBo, RAM, PSU, HDD and case at a minimum).
But you can build a decent EVE machine for as little as 400$.

Originally by: Tom Gerard
able to get HD6500 series performance. These chips run as cheap as $120, does EVE support APU?

As for EVE being able to run on it, obviously it can, since the system will "see" it pretty much the same way it would see a separate CPU and GPU, from the software side.
Performance would probably not be very good though - the CPU part of the APUs is underwhelming, and a "6500 series" AMD card is nothing to write home about either.

Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.08.13 14:21:00 - [5]
 

Be aware that CCP is currently very much in bed with nVidea. If this APU thing has any special features, they will not implement them, if it needs specific optimizations, they will not run them, if it needs anything different from an equivalent level nVidea processor, you will not get it.

Lithalnas
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.13 14:36:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Originally by: Tom Gerard
able to get HD6500 series performance. These chips run as cheap as $120, does EVE support APU?

As for EVE being able to run on it, obviously it can, since the system will "see" it pretty much the same way it would see a separate CPU and GPU, from the software side.
Performance would probably not be very good though - the CPU part of the APUs is underwhelming, and a "6500 series" AMD card is nothing to write home about either.



The performance is likened to about half a GTX 460, so where a 460 runs crysis at 60 frams, the APU will run it at about 20 or 30.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2011.08.13 15:14:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Lithalnas
Originally by: Akita T

Originally by: Tom Gerard
able to get HD6500 series performance. These chips run as cheap as $120, does EVE support APU?

As for EVE being able to run on it, obviously it can, since the system will "see" it pretty much the same way it would see a separate CPU and GPU, from the software side.
Performance would probably not be very good though - the CPU part of the APUs is underwhelming, and a "6500 series" AMD card is nothing to write home about either.



The performance is likened to about half a GTX 460, so where a 460 runs crysis at 60 frams, the APU will run it at about 20 or 30.


Which is actually pretty damn good considering it's essentially an embedded GPU.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.13 21:32:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Lithalnas
The performance is likened to about half a GTX 460

More like a third, if even that much.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.08.13 22:02:00 - [9]
 

its probably supported, please note u can also crossfire with the APU and a normal GPU, but sometimes drivers might give issues in performance.

in reality, the APUs are a stronger and possibly cheaper version of Intel integrated graphics. for eve an APU will probably run it just fine, but for higher end games it will probably not run on the higher settings

Zammo Bahrut
Banana On A Plate
Posted - 2011.08.13 23:04:00 - [10]
 

running eve on an E-350 (one of the lowest APU's) ... no problems so far :-)

Amsterdam Conversations
Posted - 2011.08.13 23:26:00 - [11]
 

I ran EVE on a C-50 before (pre incarna), while the graphics and all were fine, scrolling in windows was awfully slow.

AMD's new APUs will run EVE run fine. The actual spaceship content is everything but very graphics intensive.

xxxak
Caldari
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.08.14 01:55:00 - [12]
 

I am running EVE on an AMD A6 Radeon 6720G2 APU right now and its pretty smooth at all High.

RavenTesio
Caldari
Liandri Corporation
Posted - 2011.08.14 05:41:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 13/08/2011 14:13:06
Originally by: Tom Gerard
Basically what I am after is if this actually works is a EVE capable PC for under $200.

Even if the "CPU+GPU" APU combo costs 120$, good luck actually building a whole PC for just 80$ extra (MoBo, RAM, PSU, HDD and case at a minimum).
But you can build a decent EVE machine for as little as 400$.

Originally by: Tom Gerard
able to get HD6500 series performance. These chips run as cheap as $120, does EVE support APU?


As for EVE being able to run on it, obviously it can, since the system will "see" it pretty much the same way it would see a separate CPU and GPU, from the software side.
Performance would probably not be very good though - the CPU part of the APUs is underwhelming, and a "6500 series" AMD card is nothing to write home about either.



Actually the HD 6500 are pretty decent mid-range cards, that are capable of some very impressive performance; anyone who claims otherwise is someone who believes that games are only worth playing if you happen to be using Eyefinity (which EVE doesn't support yet), or across multiple monitors (again something EVE doesn't properly support yet), or in resolutions that any current generation "HD" monitor isn't capable of without downscaling or on a high-quality CRT which most people don't use anymore.

As far as the APU systems go, the AMD ones will run EVE @ 720p with everything turned on at a stable 60fps even in fleet fights with about 100 people involved without turning off effects or brackets; and will run at 45fps sitting outside of Jita 4-4... imo that performance is fairly reasonable.

You will get a dramatic framerate drop walking about in station, but that is entirely down to PhysX; as with a cheap GeForce 520 found this problem resolved itself; even still the performance is still at a relatively smooth 30fps. Given your walk about like a tank rather than being twitchy shooter, you barely notice the difference.

Really the biggest issue I have with the APUs are the CPU components that are quite under-powered. So if you want to do anything particularly CPU intensive, e.g. FRAPS, Video Compression, Photoshop, etc... it will sit crying in a corner. For most games however it performs just fine.

Anti-Aliasing and Aniostropic Filtering are both relatively costless on AMD hardware performance wise they just require decent amounts of fast memory; so try to get 4GB DDR3, shouldn't be an issue getting that much fair cheaply but think about splashing out for some decent memory.

Also would recommend an SSD for critial aspects, such-as Windows or EVE Online. They might be pricey but they make a world of difference, plus the 32GB ones are enough and relatively cheap(ish) now.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.08.14 08:20:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: RavenTesio
Also would recommend an SSD for critial aspects, such-as Windows or EVE Online. They might be pricey but they make a world of difference, plus the 32GB ones are enough and relatively cheap(ish) now.
well, games wise, SSD helps more on loading times than actual game performance, so they aren't really that useful.

SSD's are fast but they are more geared to heavy I/O operations with apps that require heavy disk accessing. Games usually only do said I/O operations when they load something. So yes, Windows loads hella fast, EVE loads hella fast, but that's it.

Granted however that having the OS on a SSD might positively impact performance on games, but it doesn't seem to be worth the price tbh.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.14 09:34:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 14/08/2011 11:00:36
Originally by: RavenTesio
Actually the HD 6500 are pretty decent mid-range cards, that are capable of some very impressive performance; anyone who claims otherwise is someone who believes that games are only worth playing if you happen to be using Eyefinity (which EVE doesn't support yet), or across multiple monitors (again something EVE doesn't properly support yet)

No, actually, they're last-gen entry-level cards.

Anyway, tell that stuff about EVE not supporting multiple monitors properly to the myriad EVE players that routinely play with multiple client instances each on a separate monitor, or with a single EVE client spanned across multiple monitors.
I don't know which year do you think EVE is stuck in, but multi-monitor support works just peachy even without any additional 3rd party software (you used to need stuff like EVE relocator, or maybe EVE-mon for relocation, now it's all there in the ESC menu).

Quote:
As far as the APU systems go, the AMD ones will run EVE @ 720p with everything turned on at a stable 60fps even in fleet fights with about 100 people involved without turning off effects or brackets; and will run at 45fps sitting outside of Jita 4-4... imo that performance is fairly reasonable.

I don't know how to put this, but getting "EVE in space" single-client performances of 45 FPS outside of Jita 4-4 at only 720p (even if at maxed-out detail) is nothing impressing even for the rock-bottom budget last-gen discrete video cards, and you can expect an even higher generation of video cards to come out before the end of the year, with even better "budget GPU" performance.

As far as APU desktop offerings go, you have a whole range of performances based on which APU you get - there's 3 separate "Lynx" models already out (HD 6410D, HD 6530D, HD 6550D) and 2 separate "Llano" ones (HD 6530D in the A6-3650 APU which costs 120$, and HD 6550D in the A8-3850 APU which costs 140$) with more (but lower-performing ones) coming out soon.
The Lynx models seem to have an underwhelming CPU part, but the Llano ones might have a CPU part that's acceptable.

You also get to share system memory for "video RAM", because, hey, no dedicated memory inside the APU.
Even assuming the most "budget" possible builds in discrete GPUs, you're still looking at least at 10$, possibly 15$ or more value stripped off by having to "suck" system RAM to be used as video RAM.

The A6-3650 has a GPU part that's only slightly faster than the lowest available 6xxx series Radeon desktop cards, namely a desktop HD 6450 (under 30W TDP, 45$ video card, call it 35$ after subtracting the 1 GB of RAM on it).
The A8-3850 has a GPU part that's noticeably slower than a desktop HD 6570 (a less than 60W TDP, 75$ video card, or call it 65$ after subtracting the RAM) and much slower than a desktop HD 6670 (a 66W TDP, 80$ video card, or 70$ after figuring out the RAM).

The CPU part ? 2.6 GHz and 2.9 GHz quad core, respectively, and even taking into account possible "generational" upgrades, it's doubtful even the latter would be noticeably more powerful than a 95W TDP Phenom II X4 840 at 3.2GHz per core, which you can buy for about 105$.


So, I don't know how to put this, but a Phenom 840 CPU plus a desktop HD 6670 should give overall a noticeably better performance than a A8-3850 for just about 35$ extra grand total at worst (and about 60W more combined TDP, which should not translate into more than 15$ extra on a PSU, most likely less).
And if we're comparing the A6-3650... hmm... you can get better performance at almost the same price (Athlon X4 CPU for about 85$, HD 6450 for 35$, 130$ total vs 120$ of the APU) for even less extra TDP.

If extreme power efficiency and a shoestring budget are your primary concerns, with performance far less important, sure, why not, get an APU.
But otherwise, stick with separate CPU/GPU, or at least wait until the darned APUs start getting noticeably cheaper.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.08.14 10:38:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Othran on 14/08/2011 10:41:42
Its worth pointing out to people that desktop and mobile graphics are NOT the same, even if they have very similar part numbers and even if the "mobile graphics" are in fact a discrete card.

For example we have a lappie here with an i5 cpu and two HD5870 (Mobility) 1GB cards. In crossfire mode the two HD5870 cards are about the same performance as a DESKTOP HD4870 1GB card - a bit faster on some stuff and having twice the texture memory helps. That's what I was expecting when I bought it but I bet the majority of people were expecting much much more.

Watch out for the weasel words peeps - both NVidia and AMD are guilty of being disingenuous (at least) with model numbering.

Edit - see even I got the model numbers wrong, its HD5870 not HD5890 Very Happy

Malken
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.08.14 11:11:00 - [17]
 

eve does not have proper multi screen support.
if it had i should be able to have all chats on one screen and other windows open there while having the main screen fully dedicated to combat and such.

sure its possible to run 2 clients on separate screens but that is not dual monitor support from the game.
its just about setting up windows to work with 2 monitors and have the clienta run on each in windowed mode.

the ability to have a proper multimonitor setup have been talked about since 2005 i think and CCP said then that they were looking into it.
now its 6years later and still nothing and you get the idea on how fast CCP does things.
CCP is slower at fixing things then north korea is at allowing full human rights.


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.14 12:11:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Malken
eve does not have proper multi screen support. if it had i should be able to have all chats on one screen and other windows open there while having the main screen fully dedicated to combat and such.

Sure you can. Stretch the client window on as many monitors as you like, move everything wherever you want to.

Tom Gerard
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.08.14 15:20:00 - [19]
 

Correct me if I am wrong, but the take away is that it will work?

Also significantly more expensive options will perform significantly better.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.14 16:08:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Tom Gerard
Correct me if I am wrong, but the take away is that it will work?

Basically, yeah. It will work just fine for single-client "EVE in space". But not much more.

Quote:
Also significantly more expensive options will perform significantly better.

SLIGHTLY more expensive options will perform significantly better.

Xavier Quo
Posted - 2011.09.04 11:22:00 - [21]
 

I have a hd5850, running eve in eyefinity 3x1280x1024, everything maxed, 50-60fps.

to be honest it's so good & suited to all the windows being on the side sceens I dont know if I could play eve now without three screens.

Marchocias
Posted - 2011.09.04 11:41:00 - [22]
 

Cough up a buck you cheap bastard!

Felix Decat
Posted - 2011.09.04 22:01:00 - [23]
 

Acctually, AMD's APU is pretty damn powerful.
Looking at Toms Hardware, it can run StarCraft 2 at 1080p, with high details at 31FPS... That is pretty good for a GPU integrated onto a CPU.

It will run Eve fine.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.09.04 22:59:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Felix Decat
Acctually, AMD's APU is pretty damn powerful.
Looking at Toms Hardware, it can run StarCraft 2 at 1080p, with high details at 31FPS... That is pretty good for a GPU integrated onto a CPU.

It will run Eve fine.

to be fair, sc2 is more CPU intensive not gfx intesnive... but i support the apu thing, i mean u can always crossfire with the apu or just use a discreet card later on. the new apu's are just affordable options for stock PC's meaning no more intel integrated lols imo.

Tom Gerard
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.09.05 00:27:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Marchocias
Cough up a buck you cheap bastard!


I had the money but then I bought thirteen PLEX.


 

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