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blankseplocked Nullsec AFKloakers are a CCP design goal fail - needs discussion!
 
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zljuka
Posted - 2011.08.20 16:09:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: Bane Nucleus

Be happy you have to local to even know someone else is with you. I spend almost all of my Eve life with no local, and lord knows how many people are in system with me.


hey, greetings to a man from Jita.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.20 16:25:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche

I honestly forgot about the question. I was too busy doing stuff in eve atm. Its not about "weak point".

....Snip...
You've still not answered my question. Are you finding the question a hard one?

How are they affecting you, while AFK cloaked?

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.08.20 16:36:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Mag's


How are they affecting you, while AFK cloaked?


This.

I want to know the answer as well.




Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.20 17:50:00 - [154]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/08/2011 18:13:11
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/08/2011 18:09:04
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/08/2011 18:08:16
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Andrea Roche

I honestly forgot about the question. I was too busy doing stuff in eve atm. Its not about "weak point".

....Snip...
You've still not answered my question. Are you finding the question a hard one?

How are they affecting you, while AFK cloaked?



look further down below...i accidentally deleted what was in here....

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.08.20 18:04:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche


Read again what i posted. I must have given about 10 examples. I am not gonna repeat myself.



No you haven't, you keep dancing around it.

You can not or will not answer the question directly for some reason....

Just answer the question in a simple sentence. here let me help.

Quote:
I am affected by AFK cloakers because...


Now finish the sentence.

Hwong Jian
Posted - 2011.08.20 18:04:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Andrea Roche

I honestly forgot about the question. I was too busy doing stuff in eve atm. Its not about "weak point".

....Snip...
You've still not answered my question. Are you finding the question a hard one?

How are they affecting you, while AFK cloaked?


Read again what i posted. I must have given about 10 examples. I am not gonna repeat myself.



I read your post and the only thing you've given examples of is how you are unwilling to go out in a null sec system unless you are reasonably certain you are alone in the system. Your "examples" only illustrate that you (cynically: your bot program) aren't willing to risk losing your ship, even though you willingly moved out to Null Sec. The risk of getting your ship blown up is the fundamental element that makes EVE the game it is. It can happen any where, any time, provided there is at least 1 person willing to do it.

So, allow me to rephrase a commonly asked question into something more appropos:

Why should CCP change a game mechanic in a way that makes ratting and missioning in null sec more secure?

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.20 18:09:00 - [157]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/08/2011 18:14:00
Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Andrea Roche


Read again what i posted. I must have given about 10 examples. I am not gonna repeat myself.



No you haven't, you keep dancing around it.

You can not or will not answer the question directly for some reason....

Just answer the question in a simple sentence. here let me help.

Quote:
I am affected by AFK cloakers because...


Now finish the sentence.



For those that can not read between the lines or cannot interpret...
Cannot decloak you
Cannot hunt you
Cannot herass you
Cannot drive you away
You have the decision when to strike always and i cannot do anythign about it
I never have the option to act first, always reactive.
I always have to wait for you to hot drop me and i never can hot drop you.

Its compltelly one sided.

I dont get it, what such a big deal to click cloak every once in a while?? Its not that hard is it??
Are you afraid of getting caught with bots or somthing??

Now that i had to put it in plain english for you.

Whats your reason??

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.08.20 18:17:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Andrea Roche


Read again what i posted. I must have given about 10 examples. I am not gonna repeat myself.



No you haven't, you keep dancing around it.

You can not or will not answer the question directly for some reason....

Just answer the question in a simple sentence. here let me help.

Quote:
I am affected by AFK cloakers because...


Now finish the sentence.



For those that connect read between the lines or cannot interpret...
Cannot decloak you
Cannot hunt you
Cannot herass you
Cannot drive you away
You have the decision when to strike always and i cannot do anythign about it
I never have the option to act first, always reactive.
I always have to wait for you to hot drop me and i never can hot drop you.

Its compltelly one sided.

I dont get it, what such a big deal to click cloak every once in a while?? Its not that hard is it??
Are you afraid of getting caught with bots or somthing??

Now that i had to put it in plain english for you.

Whats your reason??


So you are afraid. Got it working as intended.

You should never know when he will hot drop on your ass.

Someone that is afk can not hot drop or shoot you.

He is just there.

You have created your own fear factor.

You are pushing for this to keep your bots safe.

My reason? I am a voyeur. I like watching you twitch.

zljuka
Posted - 2011.08.20 18:22:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Andrea Roche
Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Andrea Roche


Read again what i posted. I must have given about 10 examples. I am not gonna repeat myself.



No you haven't, you keep dancing around it.

You can not or will not answer the question directly for some reason....

Just answer the question in a simple sentence. here let me help.

Quote:
I am affected by AFK cloakers because...


Now finish the sentence.



For those that connect read between the lines or cannot interpret...
Cannot decloak you
Cannot hunt you
Cannot herass you
Cannot drive you away
You have the decision when to strike always and i cannot do anythign about it
I never have the option to act first, always reactive.
I always have to wait for you to hot drop me and i never can hot drop you.

Its compltelly one sided.

I dont get it, what such a big deal to click cloak every once in a while?? Its not that hard is it??
Are you afraid of getting caught with bots or somthing??

Now that i had to put it in plain english for you.

Whats your reason??


So you are afraid. Got it working as intended.

You should never know when he will hot drop on your ass.

Someone that is afk can not hot drop or shoot you.

He is just there.

You have created your own fear factor.

You are pushing for this to keep your bots safe.

My reason? I am a voyeur. I like watching you twitch.


You are just a noob that wants to harass carebears for easy kills. Decent pvpers go to curse or delve, cause people that live there have teeth.

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.08.20 18:25:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: zljuka


You are just a noob that wants to harass carebears for easy kills. Decent pvpers go to curse or delve, cause people that live there have teeth.


lol, wut?

My e-honor!!

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.20 18:31:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Andrea Roche
Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Andrea Roche


Read again what i posted. I must have given about 10 examples. I am not gonna repeat myself.



No you haven't, you keep dancing around it.

You can not or will not answer the question directly for some reason....

Just answer the question in a simple sentence. here let me help.

Quote:
I am affected by AFK cloakers because...


Now finish the sentence.



For those that connect read between the lines or cannot interpret...
Cannot decloak you
Cannot hunt you
Cannot herass you
Cannot drive you away
You have the decision when to strike always and i cannot do anythign about it
I never have the option to act first, always reactive.
I always have to wait for you to hot drop me and i never can hot drop you.

Its compltelly one sided.

I dont get it, what such a big deal to click cloak every once in a while?? Its not that hard is it??
Are you afraid of getting caught with bots or somthing??

Now that i had to put it in plain english for you.

Whats your reason??


So you are afraid. Got it working as intended.

You should never know when he will hot drop on your ass.

Someone that is afk can not hot drop or shoot you.

He is just there.

You have created your own fear factor.

You are pushing for this to keep your bots safe.

My reason? I am a voyeur. I like watching you twitch.


I am not afraid. I want to engage you. I want to hunt you.
Me botting? =). Report me plz =).
Ironically, there are those bots that use them on cloaks. Its far easy to catch them if they use bots to recloak.

Besides you can still hunt the bots you speak of equaly if you manualy cloak every once in a while much the same way as you do now.

xxx x xx
Posted - 2011.08.20 18:47:00 - [162]
 

I agree those cloaked people are bad play and should be fixed soon. Check my suggestion, I brought today earlier in the morning:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1567982

This would fix all problems with cloaked crowd

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.20 20:01:00 - [163]
 

If you can't deal with having a single neut hanging out in space in your system (who may or may not be cloaked), then if CCP actually fixes sovereignty in such a way to make NRDS a viable play style again you are never going to be able to undock again.

Just sayin'

Bane Nucleus
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.08.20 21:05:00 - [164]
 

Edited by: Bane Nucleus on 20/08/2011 21:05:26
Originally by: Andrea Roche
Quote:


For those that can not read between the lines or cannot interpret...
Cannot decloak you
Cannot hunt you
Cannot herass you
Cannot drive you away
You have the decision when to strike always and i cannot do anythign about it
I never have the option to act first, always reactive.
I always have to wait for you to hot drop me and i never can hot drop you.

Its compltelly one sided.

I dont get it, what such a big deal to click cloak every once in a while?? Its not that hard is it??
Are you afraid of getting caught with bots or somthing??

Now that i had to put it in plain english for you.

Whats your reason??


So, just so I am clear, you are fine as long as someone has to click their cloak every once in a while. How would this be any different? You would still have a cloaky neutral in your system, just hanging out. The only difference is he wouldn't be afk and a lot more dangerous. Your decision making would still be reactionary, you still wouldn't be able to hunt him, and it would be all up to him to pull the trigger.

Your solution has nothing to do with afk cloaking and everything to do with wanting to feel "safe and secure" in 0.0 space.
Is there anything else Eve can do to coddle you while you play?

zljuka
Posted - 2011.08.20 21:12:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
If you can't deal with having a single neut hanging out in space in your system (who may or may not be cloaked), then if CCP actually fixes sovereignty in such a way to make NRDS a viable play style again you are never going to be able to undock again.

Just sayin'


Nice troll. That "single" neut is often another pvp toon logged off in system, waiting for first to tackle something, or just a gang on other side of a cyno.

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.20 21:24:00 - [166]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/08/2011 21:27:18
Originally by: Bane Nucleus
Edited by: Bane Nucleus on 20/08/2011 21:05:26
Originally by: Andrea Roche
Quote:


For those that can not read between the lines or cannot interpret...
Cannot decloak you
Cannot hunt you
Cannot herass you
Cannot drive you away
You have the decision when to strike always and i cannot do anythign about it
I never have the option to act first, always reactive.
I always have to wait for you to hot drop me and i never can hot drop you.

Its compltelly one sided.

I dont get it, what such a big deal to click cloak every once in a while?? Its not that hard is it??
Are you afraid of getting caught with bots or somthing??

Now that i had to put it in plain english for you.

Whats your reason??


So, just so I am clear, you are fine as long as someone has to click their cloak every once in a while. How would this be any different? You would still have a cloaky neutral in your system, just hanging out. The only difference is he wouldn't be afk and a lot more dangerous. Your decision making would still be reactionary, you still wouldn't be able to hunt him, and it would be all up to him to pull the trigger.

Your solution has nothing to do with afk cloaking and everything to do with wanting to feel "safe and secure" in 0.0 space.
Is there anything else Eve can do to coddle you while you play?


Its not about feling safe and secure. If he is AFK or forgot to cloak up then it gives me a chance to hunt him down.
By hunting him down i will be active instead of reactive every time. Its that easy. And no i dont have nothing else i am unhappy about or need of any "cuddle".



Bane Nucleus
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.08.20 22:14:00 - [167]
 

I am fairly certain you missed my point completely. I can still be active and just sitting a safe spot. You won't hunt me down. You won't harass me. You won't decloak me.

Your "click your cloak every once in a while" is a flawed idea, at best. Besides, the real issue is that people don't want to risk anything while running anoms. They will warp off, dock up/pos up, and wait for local to clear out. Then they will get back to doing what they are doing.

It's all about risk vs reward, and the carebears don't want to risk it with someone in local. (cloaked or otherwise)

zljuka
Posted - 2011.08.21 02:40:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Bane Nucleus
I am fairly certain you missed my point completely. I can still be active and just sitting a safe spot. You won't hunt me down. You won't harass me. You won't decloak me.

Your "click your cloak every once in a while" is a flawed idea, at best. Besides, the real issue is that people don't want to risk anything while running anoms. They will warp off, dock up/pos up, and wait for local to clear out. Then they will get back to doing what they are doing.

It's all about risk vs reward, and the carebears don't want to risk it with someone in local. (cloaked or otherwise)


Are you kidding? An 23 hours a day camping system cloaker reduces the security level of a system to that of a wormhole. In WH you don't have local but there are ways to check if somebody enters your WH system. Sleepers also have improved AI, might kill attacker instead of it's pray. With a cloaker in a system you have to be ready at any moment to get cyno on your ass and to be hotdropped. Once rewards in anomalies are same as in WH, come and we'll talk reasonably.

Bane Nucleus
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.08.21 03:37:00 - [169]
 

Wouldn't it be easier, and less impactful for the rest of Eve to just not allow cynos in anoms?

Sphit Ker
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.21 04:57:00 - [170]
 

AFK clockers are "affecting" by being cloaked. Nobody can tell if AFK or not. There is nothing to do against that. That is the crux.

Im done chasing ghosts.

Davelantor
Caldari
The Resistance Movement
Posted - 2011.08.21 05:29:00 - [171]
 

Null-sec is not for carebears ... so stop crying about cloaking mechanics.
If you cant handle a single guy, then buhu .. go back to high sec.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.21 05:48:00 - [172]
 

Originally by: Davelantor
Null-sec is not for carebears ... so stop crying about cloaking mechanics.
If you cant handle a single guy, then buhu .. go back to high sec.
A brutal smackdown from Ore Exploration Team

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.21 06:02:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Azhpol
Edited by: Azhpol on 19/08/2011 12:08:49
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Originally by: Azhpol
You know, cloakers ENFORCE the no safety in space design rule.
Unless you have one fitted, then they enforce the exact opposite.

Being cloaked is safe, but ultimately less useful than sitting in a station, because at least when your docked you can still play the market, do some of your PI, and manufacture, while the cloaker can sit there and fap, and not much more.
Am I really debating this with people who don't know what remote skills are?

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.21 10:11:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
For those that can not read between the lines or cannot interpret...
It was a direct question, why shouldn't it have a direct response?

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Cannot decloak you
You could. Sure the odds of doing so may be great, but there is still a chance.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Cannot hunt you
Well it would be long winded exercise I grant, but you can prepare and reduce the risk.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Cannot herass you
This actually gets closer to the answer than any thing else you've said. You do harass him, in the same way he does you.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Cannot drive you away
You can, but it requires effort.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
You have the decision when to strike always and i cannot do anythign about it
This is a none AFK activity.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
I never have the option to act first, always reactive.
Another none AFK activity.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
I always have to wait for you to hot drop me and i never can hot drop you.
None AFK.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Its compltelly one sided.
Actually no it's not. It's more of an exercise in trying to reduce your intel power and give the cloaker better odds. But it still requires you to be lazy and none reactive.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
I dont get it, what such a big deal to click cloak every once in a while?? Its not that hard is it??
Are you afraid of getting caught with bots or somthing??
Bots in 0.0 have the most to gain with a cloak nerf, let's not get silly.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Now that i had to put it in plain english for you.

Whats your reason??
OK let me try and put it another way, as you seem to be missing the whole point.

While they are AFK, what are they using to affect you?

Now I don't expect you to reply "Nothing, as they are AFK.", as they are most certainly doing something. This can be seen by all the threads on this subject. I just want you to tell me, what they are using to create a reaction.

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.21 10:56:00 - [175]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 21/08/2011 11:04:15
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Andrea Roche
For those that can not read between the lines or cannot interpret...
It was a direct question, why shouldn't it have a direct response?

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Cannot decloak you
You could. Sure the odds of doing so may be great, but there is still a chance.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Cannot hunt you
Well it would be long winded exercise I grant, but you can prepare and reduce the risk.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Cannot herass you
This actually gets closer to the answer than any thing else you've said. You do harass him, in the same way he does you.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Cannot drive you away
You can, but it requires effort.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
You have the decision when to strike always and i cannot do anythign about it
This is a none AFK activity.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
I never have the option to act first, always reactive.
Another none AFK activity.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
I always have to wait for you to hot drop me and i never can hot drop you.
None AFK.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Its compltelly one sided.
Actually no it's not. It's more of an exercise in trying to reduce your intel power and give the cloaker better odds. But it still requires you to be lazy and none reactive.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
I dont get it, what such a big deal to click cloak every once in a while?? Its not that hard is it??
Are you afraid of getting caught with bots or somthing??
Bots in 0.0 have the most to gain with a cloak nerf, let's not get silly.

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Now that i had to put it in plain english for you.

Whats your reason??
OK let me try and put it another way, as you seem to be missing the whole point.

While they are AFK, what are they using to affect you?

Now I don't expect you to reply "Nothing, as they are AFK.", as they are most certainly doing something. This can be seen by all the threads on this subject. I just want you to tell me, what they are using to create a reaction.


You are a troll. Instead of discussing the topic you are trying to go around the topic.
You say that there is a way to decloak someone when there is clearly no way when they are at a safe spot.
You say you can drive a cloaker away when clearly there isnt.
You are playing with the word "AFK" when you clearly know what i mean.
You say cloak bots have most to gain about but everybody knows that a cloak bot can make impressive kills even on ships that are not botting.
You are also completelly dimissing those people that are involved in real battles with each other and cannot kill their opponent cos of perma cloak and who gets contantly cyno on top cos they play the afk until random time and then attack at some specific time. Not to mention all the bots that run on cloakies.

So you are trying to excuse laziness or fear of recloaking manually with bots and only those bots that rat. Unacceptable. You are sacrificing the overral game over bot ratters. If u got bots in your list report them just like i do or kill them.

Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.


Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.21 11:29:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche

Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.



yes, but if you are afk, you cant press a button (unless using some kind of bot). Afking in space cloaked is a legit mechanic.

zljuka
Posted - 2011.08.21 11:32:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 21/08/2011 11:04:15
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.




Forget of pressing cloak once in a while, it'll only stimulate use of macros.

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.08.21 11:52:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: zljuka
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
If you can't deal with having a single neut hanging out in space in your system (who may or may not be cloaked), then if CCP actually fixes sovereignty in such a way to make NRDS a viable play style again you are never going to be able to undock again.

Just sayin'


Nice troll. That "single" neut is often another pvp toon logged off in system, waiting for first to tackle something, or just a gang on other side of a cyno.


Then he wouldn't be AFK.

You are trying to push for another agenda.

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.21 12:01:00 - [179]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 21/08/2011 12:13:48
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 21/08/2011 12:07:46
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 21/08/2011 12:03:59
Originally by: zljuka
Originally by: Andrea Roche
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 21/08/2011 11:04:15
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.
Its not hard to press cloak every once in a while you know.




Forget of pressing cloak once in a while, it'll only stimulate use of macros.


bots of that sort are easier to detect. All you have to do is report for investigation!
besides bots of that sort have been in use for ages... but not detectd easy if not continus on and off of cloak...much easier to detect then

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.21 12:04:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: zljuka
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
If you can't deal with having a single neut hanging out in space in your system (who may or may not be cloaked), then if CCP actually fixes sovereignty in such a way to make NRDS a viable play style again you are never going to be able to undock again.

Just sayin'


Nice troll. That "single" neut is often another pvp toon logged off in system, waiting for first to tackle something, or just a gang on other side of a cyno.


Then he wouldn't be AFK.

You are trying to push for another agenda.


yes its a all a big conspiracy...paranoia!


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