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Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.19 12:17:00 - [121]
 

One thing we have to concider that we havent in afk cloaking is the lack of doing nothing from many parties.

There are times when someone is ratting and someon comes into system and then the ratter warps off and cloaks. The hunter also warps and cloaks for a while. Now we got two parties unactive cloaked for a whole day in a system doing nothing and waiting for each other to uncloak.

This has got to stop. This creates lack of activity in "sleep mode" aka AFK and eve is suppose about activity!
Stop forever cloak AFK. Reduce it to lets say an Hour interval where the person has to recloak manually or something.

This also creates activity from the players as they can be killed of they forget to recloak.

CCP talk about making eve a better place. You dont need a cloak that lasts forever.
Stop this "Uber" afk cloak once and for all and eve will be a better game!
It will reward activity rather than AFK!

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.19 12:29:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
One thing we have to concider that we havent in afk cloaking is the lack of doing nothing from many parties.

There are times when someone is ratting and someon comes into system and then the ratter warps off and cloaks. The hunter also warps and cloaks for a while. Now we got two parties unactive cloaked for a whole day in a system doing nothing and waiting for each other to uncloak.

This has got to stop. This creates lack of activity in "sleep mode" aka AFK and eve is suppose about activity!
Stop forever cloak AFK. Reduce it to lets say an Hour interval where the person has to recloak manually or something.

This also creates activity from the players as they can be killed of they forget to recloak.




Or... undock, go rat and stay alert. Use your dscan. Tweak your fit for fight or flight as you see fit. Grow a pair, slap some Rogaine on them and HTFU.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.19 12:43:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche

This also creates activity from the players as they can be killed of they forget to recloak.

but the afk-cloaker probably looks from times to times if there is something, he wants to kill something pretty sure.

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.19 13:11:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Andrea Roche

This also creates activity from the players as they can be killed of they forget to recloak.

but the afk-cloaker probably looks from times to times if there is something, he wants to kill something pretty sure.


you can still cloak and wait for the right time if you choose so but you cant just stay afk forever until you get back from sleep or went to the shop, had dinner, took a shower and then went to the pc. This is ridiculous.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.19 13:17:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Andrea Roche

This also creates activity from the players as they can be killed of they forget to recloak.

but the afk-cloaker probably looks from times to times if there is something, he wants to kill something pretty sure.


you can still cloak and wait for the right time if you choose so but you cant just stay afk forever until you get back from sleep or went to the shop, had dinner, took a shower and then went to the pc. This is ridiculous.


So is doing the same thing to ship a load of minerals 20 jumps through highsec. Or providing fleet boosts for your buddies from the safety of a POS while at work or asleep.

Cloaking isn't broken. AFK cloaking is no worse for the game than any other AFK activity, even if it happens to be annoying for you.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.19 14:30:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: Mag''s on 19/08/2011 14:31:21
Originally by: Andrea Roche
This has got to stCCP talk about making eve a better place. You dont need a cloak that lasts forever.
Stop this "Uber" afk cloak once and for all and eve will be a better game!
It will reward activity rather than AFK!
How are they affecting you, while AFK cloaked? I would like a factual answer please.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.19 14:47:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Edited by: Mag''s on 19/08/2011 14:31:21
Originally by: Andrea Roche
This has got to stCCP talk about making eve a better place. You dont need a cloak that lasts forever.
Stop this "Uber" afk cloak once and for all and eve will be a better game!
It will reward activity rather than AFK!
How are they affecting you, while AFK cloaked? I would like a factual answer please.


I named my magnate "Cynosaurus Plex". I get exit holes into low sec and ocassionally through a C2 exits to null. You'd be surprised the panic a simple magnate can cause in a system. It's all fear, man. It's all fear.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.19 14:50:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Mag's
Edited by: Mag''s on 19/08/2011 14:31:21
Originally by: Andrea Roche
This has got to stCCP talk about making eve a better place. You dont need a cloak that lasts forever.
Stop this "Uber" afk cloak once and for all and eve will be a better game!
It will reward activity rather than AFK!
How are they affecting you, while AFK cloaked? I would like a factual answer please.


I named my magnate "Cynosaurus Plex". I get exit holes into low sec and ocassionally through a C2 exits to null. You'd be surprised the panic a simple magnate can cause in a system. It's all fear, man. It's all fear.
Damn you and your ebil magnate. Laughing

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:14:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 19/08/2011 18:14:41
Originally by: Mag's
Edited by: Mag''s on 19/08/2011 14:31:21
Originally by: Andrea Roche
This has got to stCCP talk about making eve a better place. You dont need a cloak that lasts forever.
Stop this "Uber" afk cloak once and for all and eve will be a better game!
It will reward activity rather than AFK!
How are they affecting you, while AFK cloaked? I would like a factual answer please.


Cloaking is good for grifing. And i am for grifing. I think this game would be bad without griefing. But its a "perma" cloak. Make it more dynamic since CCP is looking to make the game more proactive rather than pasive. Put a timer on the cloak and eve will be a more active game. The cloaker will get killed if forget to recloak. This has got to one of many separate threads i have seen people requesting this change for many years. Its about time! Make that change!

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:19:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Cloaking is good for grifing. And i am for grifing. I think this game would be bad without griefing. But its a "perma" cloak. Make it more dynamic since CCP is looking to make the game more proactive rather than pasive. Put a timer on the cloak and eve will be a more active game. The cloaker will get killed if forget to recloak. This has got to one of many separate threads i have seen people requesting this change for many years. Its about time! Make that change!


Macro - push cloak, start counter. After n seconds has passed, push cloak.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.19 20:45:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Originally by: Mag's
How are they affecting you, while AFK cloaked? I would like a factual answer please.


Cloaking is good for grifing. And i am for grifing. I think this game would be bad without griefing. But its a "perma" cloak. Make it more dynamic since CCP is looking to make the game more proactive rather than pasive. Put a timer on the cloak and eve will be a more active game. The cloaker will get killed if forget to recloak. This has got to one of many separate threads i have seen people requesting this change for many years. Its about time! Make that change!
Could you answer my question please.

PWNAGEROCKET ORLY
Posted - 2011.08.19 21:38:00 - [132]
 

They can come back from AFK at any time and kill anyone around solo in the same system except if he's in a ff. So he kills solo ppl which can't be "safe" (which fits the nullsec design rules), whereas they in contrast to these rules are safe. What's your next troll point?

Guys you might see, that trollers will troll. He will continue posting this sh-it. No matter how you respond. Therefore please do not respond to trolls.

And I repeat: The point is not that anyone should to be safe in space, but the rule of not being safe also must apply to cloaked players to some extent.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.19 22:14:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: PWNAGEROCKET ORLY
They can come back from AFK at any time and kill anyone around solo in the same system except if he's in a ff. So he kills solo ppl which can't be "safe" (which fits the nullsec design rules), whereas they in contrast to these rules are safe. What's your next troll point?
Not a troll point and you've not answered my question.

Just because you don't like the question asked, does not make it a troll. Either answer factually or don't, I really don't care. It only shows how weak your argument is, that you avoid answering it directly.

How are they affecting you, while AFK cloaked?

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.08.19 22:27:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: ShahFluffers on 19/08/2011 22:32:30
Originally by: PWNAGEROCKET ORLY
They can come back from AFK at any time and kill anyone around solo in the same system...


Lemme stop you right there buddy. The ONLY way a cloaked ship can kill someone solo is when the "victim"; a) is not paying attention, b) has improperly set up his/her ship (i.e. no point defense), c) not bothered to check if "rapid support" is nearby, or d) all of the above.

The thing is... cloaked ships are not safe as soon as they decloak. "Well duh, that's true for any ship." True... but because cloaking-oriented ships are already pre-nerfed when it comes to direct combat (lacking mobility, DPS, tank, or all of the above) and so take a VERY high risk in decloaking at all. So yeah, it's no wonder why cloaking ships focus their efforts on killing ships that can't fight back... because they themselves can barely fight back against their T1 variants (that are properly set up of course).

The only exception I can think of are T3s as they aren't too gimped in their cloaking configurations. However, using a T3 as a "guerrilla cloaker" isn't too common a practice as they are quite expensive ships to use for such a "high-risk" activity (i.e. ganking enemy ships in enemy territory with enemy support nearby (ex. that transport ship you decloak to kill might be heavily tanked and be packing a point... and enemy support is ready to come in and kill you)).

OMGWTFResearch
Posted - 2011.08.20 05:06:00 - [135]
 

Now we need to continue to discuss ways to make sure the Destroyer module to hunt and find AFK cloakers cant be seriously used to find active cloakers.

Personally I think a "Cloak Failing Warning" is good enough yet should there be a way to "avoid" the uncloak if you are active? A short puzzle that helps fool some bots? Is there a way to prevent active cloakers from having to warp off while giving AFK cloakers the risk they need?

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.20 07:05:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Andrea Roche
Cloaking is good for grifing. And i am for grifing. I think this game would be bad without griefing. But its a "perma" cloak. Make it more dynamic since CCP is looking to make the game more proactive rather than pasive. Put a timer on the cloak and eve will be a more active game. The cloaker will get killed if forget to recloak. This has got to one of many separate threads i have seen people requesting this change for many years. Its about time! Make that change!


Macro - push cloak, start counter. After n seconds has passed, push cloak.
ban user for botting/macros, problem solved

Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus
Posted - 2011.08.20 07:52:00 - [137]
 

Quote:
It is critical that some low-effort, decent-reward solo activities are available to players in nullsec. This class of content gives players a reason to stay online if nobody else is around, and it's only by getting people to stay logged on that it stops being the case that nobody else is around.


-Now, should this solo activity be cloaking at safespot before going to work or should it be solo ratting if youre the only one online in your corp atm?

Sinikka Huiputti
Posted - 2011.08.20 11:24:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: PWNAGEROCKET ORLY
teamwork and interaction and safety


you do realise killing npcs doesn't require teamwork or interaction and is perfectly safe as long as you warp to ss in instant someone comes into local, thus shouldn't be exactly rewarded by your way of thinking?

zljuka
Posted - 2011.08.20 12:01:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: PWNAGEROCKET ORLY
Edited by: PWNAGEROCKET ORLY on 19/08/2011 09:52:50
Edited by: PWNAGEROCKET ORLY on 18/08/2011 12:35:59
Suggestions to reassure CCP design goals:
Please mind all effects of a possible suggestion. These might affect a series of other mechanics!

  • Make cloaked ships detectable with a high time, technique, fitting and/or ship effort (makes them move which is no problem for active players, but AFKers)

  • Make cloaking module use charges (cloaking isn't endlessly possible)

  • Make the cloaking module cycle for a longer period and disable auto-repating (cloaking isn't endlessly possible)

  • Remove local chat (a part of AFK-cloakers seem to do so only because they want to cause constant fear and corrupt the "local as intel" system)


[/b]


1). special technique to decloak ships. Cloaked ships even afk still move at speed 250-300 m/sec for recons and 500 m/sec. for cov-ops. Some sophisticated technique that would allow to scan them down needs also a way to decloak them, like some decoaking burst.

2). Charges. Very hard to balance, active roamers in cloak ships, especially the ones scanning systems, need to cloak/decloak 1-2 times in a minute. On other side afk-kloaker can have container with charges anchored in a system.

3). Disable autorepeating of cloak module. Easy to surpass using some program that would turn it on again, kinda very simple bot program, undetectable by client, no way to prove it's bannable. Program like that will be available on every eve-related forum soon after the patch.

4). Remove local. Yeah, funny, gimme "I win" button Very Happy

I would say afk cloakers are no problem if every player would be allowed to run only one client on PC. But with current abundance of alt accs and with relative short time you need to train basic cloaky cyno-alt it's a bit OP.

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.20 12:04:00 - [140]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/08/2011 12:25:35
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/08/2011 12:12:32
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/08/2011 12:11:02
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Andrea Roche
Originally by: Mag's
How are they affecting you, while AFK cloaked? I would like a factual answer please.


Cloaking is good for grifing. And i am for grifing. I think this game would be bad without griefing. But its a "perma" cloak. Make it more dynamic since CCP is looking to make the game more proactive rather than pasive. Put a timer on the cloak and eve will be a more active game. The cloaker will get killed if forget to recloak. This has got to one of many separate threads i have seen people requesting this change for many years. Its about time! Make that change!
Could you answer my question please.



I honestly forgot about the question. I was too busy doing stuff in eve atm. Its not about "weak point".

I want to hunt them down. And since they are not in POS or a Station i should be able to hunt them down. They should not be given perma cloak. I am not the only one requesting this. There are many like me.
One should be able to grief anyone and i do griefing myself. But you should macro in game and not sit afk on one character while you doing something else.
There is also that one person by himself should not be able to lock a system down just in afk mod. This is overpowered. Its ok to be able to do nice herass but to be able to pick the fights without no macro and had the oposition almost no chance in making a kill is simply not right.
There should be an element of risk. Siting in a system perma cloaked at a safe spot has no risk. This gam is about taking a risk and consequences. Make it so.
A griefer should be able to be counter griefed and get caught. THe present system does not not allow for it.
Every other item has a counter and has a way of beating it or a weakness or consumes some kind of fuel. Why this one has none?
How hard is to recloak after an hour or so??? CCP Macro, Dynamic and Active are your keywords. Implement, dont just talk about it!

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.20 12:29:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche

There is also that one person by himself should not be able to lock a system down just in afk mod. This is overpowered. Its ok to be able to do nice herass but to be able to pick the fights without no macro and had the oposition almost no chance in making a kill is simply not right.
There should be an element of risk. Siting in a system perma cloaked at a safe spot has no risk. This gam is about taking a risk and consequences. Make it so.
A griefer should be able to be counter griefed and get caught. THe present system does not not allow for it.
Every other item has a counter and has a way of beating it or a weakness or consumes some kind of fuel. Why this one has none?
How hard is to recloak after an hour or so??? CCP Macro, Dynamic and Active are your keywords. Implement, dont just talk about it!


It still amazes me that people blame the afk cloaker for locking the system down when it's their own lack of balls that is doing it. If there's a stealth bomber cloaked in your wormhole and you know it, you can still function. You only function more smartly, expecting trouble, and prepared to counter it. Hell, null-bunnies have it even easier... they can see the clown cloaking and go to a different system.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.20 12:40:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche

Cloaking is good for grifing. And i am for grifing. I think this game would be bad without griefing.

yes

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.20 12:51:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Andrea Roche

Cloaking is good for grifing. And i am for grifing. I think this game would be bad without griefing.

yes


Its not like you will not be able to recloak manually. You can recloak manually. You just have to remember to do it after a certain time. XD

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.20 12:55:00 - [144]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/08/2011 13:00:41
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/08/2011 12:55:32
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Andrea Roche

There is also that one person by himself should not be able to lock a system down just in afk mod. This is overpowered. Its ok to be able to do nice herass but to be able to pick the fights without no macro and had the oposition almost no chance in making a kill is simply not right.
There should be an element of risk. Siting in a system perma cloaked at a safe spot has no risk. This gam is about taking a risk and consequences. Make it so.
A griefer should be able to be counter griefed and get caught. THe present system does not not allow for it.
Every other item has a counter and has a way of beating it or a weakness or consumes some kind of fuel. Why this one has none?
How hard is to recloak after an hour or so??? CCP Macro, Dynamic and Active are your keywords. Implement, dont just talk about it!


It still amazes me that people blame the afk cloaker for locking the system down when it's their own lack of balls that is doing it. If there's a stealth bomber cloaked in your wormhole and you know it, you can still function. You only function more smartly, expecting trouble, and prepared to counter it. Hell, null-bunnies have it even easier... they can see the clown cloaking and go to a different system.


I dont care about a sb, i are move about a covert/black ops cyno which can drastically change things. Its ok to cloak, as i said i got no problem with that. Its the whole i cant kill you while you dance around cloaked forever that bothers me. It should also be an item that has a counter or limitation like any other item...currently this one has no counter. Its in here where the error lies.

There are many threads in the past based on the issue of perma cloak. This is not a new topic. For years there has been topics on the perma cloak/ afk cloak. So there are obvious reasons why people this this is too much one sided battle and you can only be reactive againt it. This part is also wrong.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.20 12:59:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Andrea Roche

Cloaking is good for grifing. And i am for grifing. I think this game would be bad without griefing.

yes


Its not like you will not be able to recloak manually. You can recloak manually. You just have to remember to do it after a certain time. XD


So you're pushing for afk cloakers to use macros to stay cloaked?

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.20 13:11:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/08/2011 13:19:05
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/08/2011 13:12:20
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Andrea Roche
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Andrea Roche

Cloaking is good for grifing. And i am for grifing. I think this game would be bad without griefing.

yes


Its not like you will not be able to recloak manually. You can recloak manually. You just have to remember to do it after a certain time. XD


So you're pushing for afk cloakers to use macros to stay cloaked?


You miss understand what i mean by macro. Macro=macromanage, meaning you have to manage each client manually constantly and not let it be if you are cloaked. Encourages been active on the cloaked character by reacloaking after a certain time. Not about bots..I hate bot but you will never get rid of them.

I am not sure what you meant by the last line. But if you are talking about using bots for recloaking purposes then you are naive. People have been using bots for all sort of things inlcuding been afk and alerting the owner that someone is in local via sound among other things. This is not new and very old and i am sure there are many other variations. Regretfully you will never get rid of them but if they recloak using bot, they can be reported to CCP so that CCP can investigate and ban their behinds forever.

People that will use bot will get caught. Someone that spends 12+ hours in a PC continiously and does not misses his cloak lets say every hour, is very likely candidate for bots. So you can track this...

Bane Nucleus
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.08.20 13:50:00 - [147]
 

Cloaking is working just fine. Some of you people just need to grow some hair on your chest and play Eve. At no point in this game should you feel 100% safe when you are undocked.


Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.20 14:12:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Its not like you will not be able to recloak manually. You can recloak manually. You just have to remember to do it after a certain time. XD

but I dont like the idea of not being able to afk everywhere in space when I'm cloaked. Dont like it. Space is for everyone.

Nasro Drags
Posted - 2011.08.20 15:12:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Bane Nucleus
Cloaking is working just fine. Some of you people just need to grow some hair on your chest and play Eve. At no point in this game should you feel 100% safe when you are undocked.




At no point in this game should you feel 100% safe when you are cloaked.

Bane Nucleus
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.08.20 15:32:00 - [150]
 

And I never do. Cloaking isn't this unbeatable thing some people make it out to be. It seems to be the equivalent of the Boogeyman for some people in null sec.

Be happy you have to local to even know someone else is with you. I spend almost all of my Eve life with no local, and lord knows how many people are in system with me.


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