open All Channels
seplocked Features and Ideas Discussion
blankseplocked Nullsec AFKloakers are a CCP design goal fail - needs discussion!
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

Author Topic

OMGWTFResearch
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:24:00 - [31]
 

There is no need for a DC timer. A module for the destroyer that is high cost and high skill with the aspects mentioned in my previous posts will add risk to going AFK while not seriously affecting active cloakers and not affecting other activities.

Also this will add a new layer of gameplay.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:29:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
There is no need for a DC timer. A module for the destroyer that is high cost and high skill with the aspects mentioned in my previous posts will add risk to going AFK while not seriously affecting active cloakers and not affecting other activities.

Also this will add a new layer of gameplay.


no, even this is not required, because afking is not wrong in the first line. Stop fixing what is not broken.

OMGWTFResearch
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:54:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
There is no need for a DC timer. A module for the destroyer that is high cost and high skill with the aspects mentioned in my previous posts will add risk to going AFK while not seriously affecting active cloakers and not affecting other activities.

Also this will add a new layer of gameplay.


no, even this is not required, because afking is not wrong in the first line. Stop fixing what is not broken.


Adding risk to walking away while cloaking would fix the issue while not affecting active cloakers. Active cloaking indeed does not need to be affected. Just the AFK part.

CCP when you look at this I will hope you consider my idea over others that could affect active cloakers such as cloaking fuel bays or AFK timers. Adding the module I mentioned above will add another layer of gameplay and resolve this without seriously adversely affecting active cloaking.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:57:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch

Adding risk to walking away while cloaking would fix the issue

cloaking and walking away is not wrong or broken, nothing to fix, no issue there.

Shepard Book
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:32:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: PWNAGEROCKET ORLY
It seems obvious that the cloaking device is not discussed by the game designers at the moment or in the near future. I request to do so.

Quote from CCP "Nullsec design rules":
Quote:
Nullsec features should always reward teamwork, organization and interaction in every feature

and
Quote:
Players should be able to mitigate danger, but not eliminate it - nobody should be safe in space, [...]


Cloaking is not the problem. The free warning you get from local they are there in the first place is the problem. Local is being addressed. You should always be ready to defend yourself

The cloaking device allows players to be unkillable while waiting for their victims to leave their save spots (POS/Station). Thus hunting down pirates or mining in Nullsec becomes impossible to do for anyone in the same system. The only way to counter a single player would be to go killing pirates, wait for him to appear (which can take all day long) and then quick jump in with a small PvP fleet. 3+ characters with a time effort of 2-8 hours required to hunt down one char to avoid loss . The cloak-abusing character therefore has no time effort except killing time for his profit .

They neither do teamwork nor are they in danger while in Nullsec space. With the quotations given above, it is obviously not what CCP's game designers wanted - therefore I demand a re-thinking of this mechanic (in hope for a redesign).

New Eden is a dangerous place. One-way dangerous atm.

If help is necessary to get the ideas, the playerbase has tons of it. Cloaking device fueling is the best one I've read about so far.



[email protected] cloak defenders: You know what rats there are in the system, you know what ppl fit for that. counter-fit and watch your scanner. What you do is NOT risky at all - except youre underskilled.

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:41:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse

DC people after half an hour of no player directed activity. No more AFK cloaky trouble.



Every freighter pilot in eve would like a word with you. not to mention miners, pvpers, hell, every single player in eve would get hit by this for no good reason.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:44:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Danika Princip
Originally by: Newt Rondanse

DC people after half an hour of no player directed activity. No more AFK cloaky trouble.



Every freighter pilot in eve would like a word with you. not to mention miners, pvpers, hell, every single player in eve would get hit by this for no good reason.

Flying tens of millions of isk of goods through space with the continual threat of piracy that still hasn't been stamped out successfully by CONCORD while AFK on autopilot?

You're braver than I thought!

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:50:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Originally by: Danika Princip
Originally by: Newt Rondanse

DC people after half an hour of no player directed activity. No more AFK cloaky trouble.



Every freighter pilot in eve would like a word with you. not to mention miners, pvpers, hell, every single player in eve would get hit by this for no good reason.

Flying tens of millions of isk of goods through space with the continual threat of piracy that still hasn't been stamped out successfully by CONCORD while AFK on autopilot?

You're braver than I thought!


there are tons of bulky things in eve which arent worth ganking but need to be moved.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:03:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Originally by: Danika Princip
Originally by: Newt Rondanse

DC people after half an hour of no player directed activity. No more AFK cloaky trouble.



Every freighter pilot in eve would like a word with you. not to mention miners, pvpers, hell, every single player in eve would get hit by this for no good reason.

Flying tens of millions of isk of goods through space with the continual threat of piracy that still hasn't been stamped out successfully by CONCORD while AFK on autopilot?

You're braver than I thought!


there are tons of bulky things in eve which arent worth ganking but need to be moved.

And there is a lot of real communication between real players that is at least initiated in the local chat channel.

The communication is a lot more important to a multi-player game than any quantity of pixels being shifted between systems. It is what distinguishes a multi-player RPG from just another release of Homeworld or Final Fantasy.

Imagine pro-wrestling without the smacktalk. Football or basketball without the possibility of taunting your opponent into a foul. The ability for easy communication between the sides in a battle is at least as important a capability as the ability for the sides to communicate amongst themselves.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:27:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse

And there is a lot of real communication between real players that is at least initiated in the local chat channel.

and there is no problem right now, you may chat and afk people can do their afk jobs.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:31:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Newt Rondanse

And there is a lot of real communication between real players that is at least initiated in the local chat channel.

and there is no problem right now, you may chat and afk people can do their afk jobs.

Exactly.

Local chat is not a problem, it is a necessary feature.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:33:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 17/08/2011 17:32:51
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Newt Rondanse

And there is a lot of real communication between real players that is at least initiated in the local chat channel.

and there is no problem right now, you may chat and afk people can do their afk jobs.

Exactly.

Local chat is not a problem, it is a necessary feature.

well, you do not strictly need local to communicate. Region chat or constellation chat would suffice

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:40:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera

well, you do not strictly need local to communicate. Region chat or constellation chat would suffice

True, but whatever extent it covers it needs to be something that is open by default for everyone.

Constellation chat is not open by default when you enter a new constellation.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:57:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 17/08/2011 17:57:21
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Originally by: Robert Caldera

well, you do not strictly need local to communicate. Region chat or constellation chat would suffice

True, but whatever extent it covers it needs to be something that is open by default for everyone.

Constellation chat is not open by default when you enter a new constellation.

what?? for location independent comms there is alliance, corp, and private chats.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:01:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 17/08/2011 17:57:21
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Originally by: Robert Caldera

well, you do not strictly need local to communicate. Region chat or constellation chat would suffice

True, but whatever extent it covers it needs to be something that is open by default for everyone.

Constellation chat is not open by default when you enter a new constellation.

what?? for location independent comms there is alliance, corp, and private chats.

Which only work for communication with people you have already established a relationship with.

There needs to be a channel for open communication, and it needs to be an in-game channel that is open by default.

People can opt out of it (heck, if it wasn't for the valuable intel you could close local!), but it needs to be there and the default state needs to be on.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:03:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 17/08/2011 18:03:15

so if i'd allowed to exit local that would be fine for me

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:13:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 17/08/2011 18:03:15

so if i'd allowed to exit local that would be fine for me

Go ahead and try it.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:30:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Originally by: Robert Caldera

well, you do not strictly need local to communicate. Region chat or constellation chat would suffice

True, but whatever extent it covers it needs to be something that is open by default for everyone.

Constellation chat is not open by default when you enter a new constellation.
But constellation chat is open by default, when you have a fresh install. It's just that almost everyone closes it, never to open it again.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:39:00 - [49]
 

How's this for a solution... give a player's ship the option to shut down communications with local transponders. If you turn it off, you can't chat in local, be seen in local, or see who's in local. If it's on, local goes along fine as is.

Someone with the transponder communications off wouldn't be able to enter a system and see in local who's there, and if they go into a system with it on they'll show until it gets turned off. It would add a little planning to the cloaker and it would require people to be more alert.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:46:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
How's this for a solution... give a player's ship the option to shut down communications with local transponders. If you turn it off, you can't chat in local, be seen in local, or see who's in local. If it's on, local goes along fine as is.

Someone with the transponder communications off wouldn't be able to enter a system and see in local who's there, and if they go into a system with it on they'll show until it gets turned off. It would add a little planning to the cloaker and it would require people to be more alert.
People would still use local against them though, so the AFK whine threads would continue. Unless I misunderstand your idea.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:51:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Newt Rondanse on 17/08/2011 18:51:29
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
How's this for a solution... give a player's ship the option to shut down communications with local transponders. If you turn it off, you can't chat in local, be seen in local, or see who's in local. If it's on, local goes along fine as is.

Someone with the transponder communications off wouldn't be able to enter a system and see in local who's there, and if they go into a system with it on they'll show until it gets turned off. It would add a little planning to the cloaker and it would require people to be more alert.

So, you mean something like closing the local chat channel?

Nah, that'd never work.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:58:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Edited by: Newt Rondanse on 17/08/2011 18:51:29
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
How's this for a solution... give a player's ship the option to shut down communications with local transponders. If you turn it off, you can't chat in local, be seen in local, or see who's in local. If it's on, local goes along fine as is.

Someone with the transponder communications off wouldn't be able to enter a system and see in local who's there, and if they go into a system with it on they'll show until it gets turned off. It would add a little planning to the cloaker and it would require people to be more alert.

So, you mean something like closing the local chat channel?

Nah, that'd never work.


Kind of, but more shutting you out of it completely. You're not in it nor can you use it unless you turn it back on... then you can tie cooldowns to the start-up/ shutdown of it as well. If you really wanted, you could say that having the transponder shut down interferes a bit with your ship's ability to target, reducing the range and accuracy...

If you close local, other people can still see you. With this idea, they couldn't.

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:12:00 - [53]
 

Why fix what isn't broken?

Russell Casey
Posted - 2011.08.18 02:26:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Newt Rondanse


All the system occupants have to do is buddy up and stay alert and there isn't anything you can do to them...


This.

Unfortunately, this is also the lesson most people don't seem to be able to learn.


Kind of reflects on the sad state of null. It's supposed to be uber dangerous and require teamwork, trust and cooperation to stay alive---but everyone wants to to just solo-grind isk free from danger because their alliance has totally locked down the system and no one can get to them.

OMGWTFResearch
Posted - 2011.08.18 03:14:00 - [55]
 

This is NOT a topic to discuss removing local. This is about adding risk to AFK while cloaked.

This idea I will quote again will protect active cloakers while adding risk for those who are AFK while cloaked.

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Originally by: Hansipoo
So how about AFK cloaking? Is small gang "disruption" actually going to be active? Or are big alliances still going to have an afk cloaker in every system?


We have proposed an idea to remove the incentive to walk away from your computer cloaked in a system for long periods of time while protecting those who are actively in the client using the cloak.

My part of the proposal would be a very high cost, very high skill module or probe launcher that only fits on a destroyer hull. A person using this module would "scan" a random point in space generated every time a cloak is activated (And goes away when it shuts down obviously) This would be FAR FAR FAR slower than scanning for ships and would only have the effect at the end of a decloak. This will mean it cant be used to camp areas to keep any cloaker out.

To add extra balance and to prevent any major disruption to the intended active uses. A warning would come up once the scan process has started with a final warning soon before the decloak actually happens. (perhaps 15-30 seconds after point is found) An active cloaker would simply warp away. Recloak and the process starts again.

You can see how this protects active cloakers while removing the incentive to go AFK. This would fix the issue and help improve the system and the game itself.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.18 03:27:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
This is NOT a topic to discuss removing local. This is about adding risk to AFK while cloaked.




Well, yes, and that's why I suggested the DC timer, but apparently people AFK every boring task in the game. No reason that harrassing the locals should recieve special treatment.

OMGWTFResearch
Posted - 2011.08.18 03:31:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: OMGWTFResearch on 18/08/2011 03:31:46
I have already stated that I will support a DC timer over nothing at all. I just think that is too extreme when there are alternatives.

Nezumiiro Noneko
Posted - 2011.08.18 03:52:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Nezumiiro Noneko on 18/08/2011 03:52:48
DC timer...? Again...?


Fleet boosters would be kicked, usually parked in a safe and well fleet boost. Vulture about useless for shooting ****....and its suck ass to lose your booster, he lives long and prospers in a deep safe...go right ahead and hide, I like my shield bonuses.


Carriers and super carriers on bashes...would be kicked. Launch your little friends, any active mods turned on, done button clicking unless a hot drop. Once bash starts...only key youa re hitting is the voice comm one when fc syas oookay, this is gonna suck, can talk crap in comms till I say stfu if something happens. Nor sure about amarr lazers...the crystal lasts half an hour....yep they are kicked too.

AFK piloted ships...kicked. CCP knows travel can be a pita. hence afk. jsut did your charon haul to jita...its 20 jumps to next station. Empty freighter, no war dec....and your show about to come on. Set course hit, undock, hit and it might be halfway an hour later. No user interaction for this.


Cyno als would be kicked. Not gonna fualt a guy for keeping his cyno nice and still waiting out pirates looking to get a chance at a jf gank to get bored and go chase a fw runner down lol.

Or..just for giggles....leave a heavy ass object on a damn keyboard key. My gaming mouse has lots of little weights useful for this task alone. Or...I have cats. Lost track of how many times they typed gibberish in chat lol.



Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.18 04:50:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Nezumiiro Noneko
Edited by: Nezumiiro Noneko on 18/08/2011 03:52:48
DC timer...? Again...?


Fleet boosters would be kicked, usually parked in a safe and well fleet boost. Vulture about useless for shooting ****....and its suck ass to lose your booster, he lives long and prospers in a deep safe...go right ahead and hide, I like my shield bonuses.


Carriers and super carriers on bashes...would be kicked. Launch your little friends, any active mods turned on, done button clicking unless a hot drop. Once bash starts...only key youa re hitting is the voice comm one when fc syas oookay, this is gonna suck, can talk crap in comms till I say stfu if something happens. Nor sure about amarr lazers...the crystal lasts half an hour....yep they are kicked too.

AFK piloted ships...kicked. CCP knows travel can be a pita. hence afk. jsut did your charon haul to jita...its 20 jumps to next station. Empty freighter, no war dec....and your show about to come on. Set course hit, undock, hit and it might be halfway an hour later. No user interaction for this.


Cyno als would be kicked. Not gonna fualt a guy for keeping his cyno nice and still waiting out pirates looking to get a chance at a jf gank to get bored and go chase a fw runner down lol.

Or..just for giggles....leave a heavy ass object on a damn keyboard key. My gaming mouse has lots of little weights useful for this task alone. Or...I have cats. Lost track of how many times they typed gibberish in chat lol.




Like I said, people AFK every boring job in the game.

It's nothing but null case botting, but people are too used to it to see it as the same thing.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.18 05:18:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 18/08/2011 05:20:28

Again with this discussion? Good grief. While cloaked - the cloaked can't kill anyone either. They have to uncloak to do that. There is a targetting delay on uncloaking which is fairly long..anything but a covert cloak can't stealth warp.. so unless they know where you are already..they are not getting anywhere. Bringing this up in your AFKcloaker thread shows me that you aren't really after afkers...as the afk are not waiting round to gank you. AFKers are, if they exist, afk (no threat).

I suspect you just want some kind of nerf and you, like a few others who spam this topic, are using the afk issue to further your nerf herding.

Cloaking doesn't need anything but freedom from local.



Pages: first : previous : 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only