open All Channels
seplocked Features and Ideas Discussion
blankseplocked Nullsec AFKloakers are a CCP design goal fail - needs discussion!
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11]

Author Topic

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:18:00 - [301]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
While you understood where i was going regretfully the others didnt/ignored completlly what i said.
We know what you meant, you were wrong.

Now your argument is that a cloaker would never warp to a safe spot, out of d-scan range and log there. Rolling Eyes


Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:23:00 - [302]
 

Originally by: Gemberslaafje
Originally by: Bane Nucleus
As long such ideas stay in null sec and out of wh space, you guys can do whatever you'd like. Laughing


The big disadvantage of wormhole space is that cynos are useless.

So the worst that can happen there is a fleet of Covert Recons.

In 0.0, you could actually end up with a fleet of carriers, dreads, blackopses, etc. from 1 covert ops guy.

Which means that with a neutered local, WH space actually ends up being safer than nullsec.

The reason real players dock up when they see a single neut in system is because of the risk of getting hotdropped. It is the only adaptation possible with the current state of the game. Without full, instant local the only adaptation possible for the risk of being hotdropped is to not undock in any system where it might be a risk unless you have a counter-drop at the ready.

That leaves nullsec populated by fools (who will run out of ships soon enough), wolves, and isolated pockets of big alliance holdings with every single inbound gate to their territory bubbled and camped to death to try to ensure that not a single thing ever gets through.

Neutering local without also converting cynos from a tactical tool to a strategic tool would not make nullsec any more attractive as a place to "live" in game.

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:24:00 - [303]
 

Originally by: Gemberslaafje
Originally by: Andrea Roche

You obviously understood where i was going with my previous entry based on the answer. Yes the dscan even without local helps alot spcially when you are cloak and the others are not. Yes limiting dscan may work but you will have one up now cos they dont know you are there cos of the "perma cloak". Which means you can warp around cloaked to all planets and dscan and get a hit. And they still wouldnt know you are in system cos there are no probs or nothing to give you away. As an afk cloker you will know that between now and the next few hours there is gonna be someone rating in these well known ratting system but the person loging in or entering the system to rat ill never know unless you get uncloaked which you wont with the permacloak.

While you understood where i was going regretfully the others didnt/ignored completlly what i said.


Part of the problem (respectfully) is that you are either very young or English is not your first language. And it's very easy to spot other people's mistakes/misunderstandings, while it's very hard to actually give unbiased alternatives.


I am in my 30s. English is my first language. Calling me biased and not them who want not just the ability to perma cloak plus not to be visible in local. If i am a ratter and i am in a known ratting system, how do i ever know if he is there or how many are there in local if they are cloaked? No local, cant see him on scan either, no scaning probes cos they dont need them...At least in a wh all i needed was to be constatnly scaning for probes, which was easy and never got killed. In wh is easier. Cos in thr to find you they have to probe you and that is detectable, dscaning is not detectable.

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:26:00 - [304]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Originally by: Gemberslaafje
Originally by: Bane Nucleus
As long such ideas stay in null sec and out of wh space, you guys can do whatever you'd like. Laughing


The big disadvantage of wormhole space is that cynos are useless.

So the worst that can happen there is a fleet of Covert Recons.

In 0.0, you could actually end up with a fleet of carriers, dreads, blackopses, etc. from 1 covert ops guy.

Which means that with a neutered local, WH space actually ends up being safer than nullsec.

The reason real players dock up when they see a single neut in system is because of the risk of getting hotdropped. It is the only adaptation possible with the current state of the game. Without full, instant local the only adaptation possible for the risk of being hotdropped is to not undock in any system where it might be a risk unless you have a counter-drop at the ready.

That leaves nullsec populated by fools (who will run out of ships soon enough), wolves, and isolated pockets of big alliance holdings with every single inbound gate to their territory bubbled and camped to death to try to ensure that not a single thing ever gets through.

Neutering local without also converting cynos from a tactical tool to a strategic tool would not make nullsec any more attractive as a place to "live" in game.


wh is by far the safest imo cos no gates, trafic is small, you need to be probed down whcihc is detectable etc...

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:28:00 - [305]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
I am in my 30s. English is my first language. Calling me biased and not them who want not just the ability to perma cloak plus not to be visible in local. If i am a ratter and i am in a known ratting system, how do i ever know if he is there or how many are there in local if they are cloaked? No local, cant see him on scan either, no scaning probes cos they dont need them...At least in a wh all i needed was to be constatnly scaning for probes, which was easy and never got killed. In wh is easier. Cos in thr to find you they have to probe you and that is detectable, dscaning is not detectable.


You sure you've ever seen the inside of a wormhole? You don't need probes to find the combat sites, just run your ships scanner. You can use DScan to narrow down exactly which site someone is running and drop in completely unannounced.

Sounds to me like the best possible "fix" for local is to have cloaked ships not appear on local and to simply get rid of cynos. You want to travel, get the frak out there and travel. You want to drop a fleet onto someone, fly your arse through the gates and go get 'em like men.

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:33:00 - [306]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Andrea Roche
While you understood where i was going regretfully the others didnt/ignored completlly what i said.
We know what you meant, you were wrong.

Now your argument is that a cloaker would never warp to a safe spot, out of d-scan range and log there. Rolling Eyes




dude i am trying not so say somthing rude cos you are miscustructing what i am trying to say every time. so please ignore me..i see genuine talk from the rest, but i see troll all over you lines.

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:39:00 - [307]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Andrea Roche
I am in my 30s. English is my first language. Calling me biased and not them who want not just the ability to perma cloak plus not to be visible in local. If i am a ratter and i am in a known ratting system, how do i ever know if he is there or how many are there in local if they are cloaked? No local, cant see him on scan either, no scaning probes cos they dont need them...At least in a wh all i needed was to be constatnly scaning for probes, which was easy and never got killed. In wh is easier. Cos in thr to find you they have to probe you and that is detectable, dscaning is not detectable.


You sure you've ever seen the inside of a wormhole? You don't need probes to find the combat sites, just run your ships scanner. You can use DScan to narrow down exactly which site someone is running and drop in completely unannounced.

Sounds to me like the best possible "fix" for local is to have cloaked ships not appear on local and to simply get rid of cynos. You want to travel, get the frak out there and travel. You want to drop a fleet onto someone, fly your arse through the gates and go get 'em like men.


forgive me if i am remisd but i do belive that some things you need scan probes. It may be cos i was in different class of wh. But eitherway wh is outside the topic. Dont know how we hav swayed so far XD. LEts get back to the main topic.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:22:00 - [308]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Andrea Roche
While you understood where i was going regretfully the others didnt/ignored completlly what i said.
We know what you meant, you were wrong.

Now your argument is that a cloaker would never warp to a safe spot, out of d-scan range and log there. Rolling Eyes




dude i am trying not so say somthing rude cos you are miscustructing what i am trying to say every time. so please ignore me..i see genuine talk from the rest, but i see troll all over you lines.
You're not making sense, that's why I misconstrue what you are saying.

So is you're argument is that people would still cloak, because it's a ratting system? Well yes, they would still cloak in a ratting system, but there would be no need to AFK cloak without local.
Local is the reason for AFK cloaking in the context of psychological warfare. Without local, it serves no purpose other than just burning electricity for the sake of not logging off.
People AFK cloak because they know they can be seen, while ever they are away doing whatever.

Your argument is very biased, not at all focused and I really don't care whether you are rude or not. You've lost all credibility in this thread. I think I've been more the generous with my replies, considering your poor use of the English language and even worse understanding of the issue.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:23:00 - [309]
 

Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 23/08/2011 16:24:13
Originally by: Andrea Roche
forgive me if i am remisd but i do belive that some things you need scan probes. It may be cos i was in different class of wh. But eitherway wh is outside the topic. Dont know how we hav swayed so far XD. LEts get back to the main topic.


You need to probe out things like mags, gravs, radars, ladars... but combat sites, no. Ship's scanner detects them at 100%.

Edit: Mag's... this doesn't imply that I want to probe you btw... <...awkward...>

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:25:00 - [310]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 23/08/2011 16:24:13
Originally by: Andrea Roche
forgive me if i am remisd but i do belive that some things you need scan probes. It may be cos i was in different class of wh. But eitherway wh is outside the topic. Dont know how we hav swayed so far XD. LEts get back to the main topic.


You need to probe out things like mags, gravs, radars, ladars... but combat sites, no. Ship's scanner detects them at 100%.

Edit: Mag's... this doesn't imply that I want to probe you btw... <...awkward...>
Damn you and your ninja editing skills. Razz Laughing

Bane Nucleus
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:29:00 - [311]
 

Originally by: Mag's

So is you're argument is that people would still cloak, because it's a ratting system? Well yes, they would still cloak in a ratting system, but there would be no need to AFK cloak without local.
Local is the reason for AFK cloaking in the context of psychological warfare. Without local, it serves no purpose other than just burning electricity for the sake of not logging off.
People AFK cloak because they know they can be seen, while ever they are away doing whatever.


That is because his real issue was never about AFK cloaking. It was about cloaking in general, and how he is unable to defend against it.

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:38:00 - [312]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 23/08/2011 16:37:52
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 23/08/2011 16:24:13
Originally by: Andrea Roche
forgive me if i am remisd but i do belive that some things you need scan probes. It may be cos i was in different class of wh. But eitherway wh is outside the topic. Dont know how we hav swayed so far XD. LEts get back to the main topic.


You need to probe out things like mags, gravs, radars, ladars... but combat sites, no. Ship's scanner detects them at 100%.

Edit: Mag's... this doesn't imply that I want to probe you btw... <...awkward...>


Well now you know what i mean. And I you. And no monkey business ;)

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:09:00 - [313]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 23/08/2011 17:14:39
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 23/08/2011 17:11:33
Originally by: Bane Nucleus

That is because his real issue was never about AFK cloaking. It was about cloaking in general, and how he is unable to defend against it.


my post on page 5 says afk cloaking and later i mention perma cloaking. In fact both are intertwined cos both allow perma cloaking mechanism. Indefenit cloak. Its both.

I will give you a summary.
AFK cloaking and perm cloaking allow for "jaming" a system without no effort and is un anfair advantage cos you are "invinsible" and can cyno on top of anyone. You are always have the agressor advantage long after you are in system. The ratter never gets an opportunity to aggress you until you cyno on top of him. This part needs changing. The cloaking mechanism needs to be changed so that the cloak cycles for a period of time then decloaks. At this time you can recloak if you choose to. If you forget you are viable to get aggressed. This way the aggresor can become the victim. Right now if you get cyno on top you are dead. I am trying to promote active hunting and making it a bit fair for the hunted. The aggressor should have an advantage but not almost all since you cannot have a fleet 23 hours on standby to counter the cyno with another.

While cloak can be a good thing in this case allows an unfair advantage as above. For this the excuse I was given that cos they want to kill bots. And i understood where the problem is. Bots is a big problem in eve and some do exagerate it too.
Best solution against bots is report them! This gets them banned rather than dock and get another ship and activate the bot again.

You dont require a perma cloak. You can cloak manually every time after a timer has expired.
This rewards been active rather than rearding afk cloaking and thn cyno on top without no effort at all.

Its too easy for an afk cloaker to come out of hibernation and get a kill without effort and no risk




Bane Nucleus
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:20:00 - [314]
 

In Null Sec, can't you cyno jam a system with some sort of pos mod? If this is the case, why don't you just run your anoms, rat, etc.... in that system? That would solve all your problems.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:24:00 - [315]
 

Originally by: Bane Nucleus
In Null Sec, can't you cyno jam a system with some sort of pos mod? If this is the case, why don't you just run your anoms, rat, etc.... in that system? That would solve all your problems.
Because of all the Black ops ships about, they are rife in null sec apparently.

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:36:00 - [316]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 23/08/2011 17:37:39
Originally by: Bane Nucleus
In Null Sec, can't you cyno jam a system with some sort of pos mod? If this is the case, why don't you just run your anoms, rat, etc.... in that system? That would solve all your problems.


hmm i thought you knew this. In 0.0 you can jump in black ops and covert ops and recon. Cyno jaming only works for capital ships not for this other type of ships. These are more organized, fast, and comes with a lot of ecm warefar usually. You are dead in seconds in a battleship or battlecruise. On capitals usually takes longer to die, depending on fittings ofcource.

I mean no offence to anyon but am i discussing this with a guy that lives in a wormhole and another that lives in empire space cos this is pritty basic stuff?

Sports Bet
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:45:00 - [317]
 

Originally by: Andrea Roche
I am in my 30s. English is my first language.


In that case you need a new spelling penguin. Using proper syntax, spelling and grammar goes a long way into having people see that you might have a point.

In addition, your information seems... stretched, at best. You may need to make sure you know what you're talking about before you try to prove the rest of us that we're wrong and you are right.

Respectfully.

Bane Nucleus
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:45:00 - [318]
 

Edited by: Bane Nucleus on 23/08/2011 17:56:18
Originally by: Andrea Roche
hmm i thought you knew this. In 0.0 you can jump in black ops and covert ops and recon. Cyno jaming only works for capital ships not for this other type of ships. These are more organized, fast, and comes with a lot of ecm warefar usually. You are dead in seconds in a battleship or battlecruise. On capitals usually takes longer to die, depending on fittings ofcource.

I mean no offence to anyon but am i discussing this with a guy that lives in a wormhole and another that lives in empire space cos this is pritty basic stuff?



Correct. I do live in a wh. However, you are wanting to change a game mechanic that is far more important for wormholes than null sec. Just out of curiosity though, how many times have you had a cloaky drop a cyno on you?

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.23 19:19:00 - [319]
 

Originally by: Bane Nucleus

Correct. I do live in a wh. However, you are wanting to change a game mechanic that is far more important for wormholes than null sec. Just out of curiosity though, how many times have you had a cloaky drop a cyno on you?


Probably about 7 times. But they are under different circubstances. Sometimes its on me, sometimes its bait, sometimes is totally unexpected, sometimes its asisting someone and others. If you havent had the experience in it, you just got to think of what would be like to be jumped 10/30 ships with all sort of ecm warefare. I got actually a lot of experince of vs this kind of stuff as i had the "honour" of facing the best at it, without a doubt and i congratulate them bytherway, they are a formidable opponent although they may be exploiting a weakness in the mechanics but they deserve the recognition. They know who they are =).
So yes i actually spend about 8 months of constant drops of this sort.

I am not "afraid" of it but i am not suicidal either. I am over 3 years old character so i have earned my stripes, I am no noob. Ok maybe at anything that has to do with industry or production ;).

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.08.23 19:24:00 - [320]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 23/08/2011 19:46:29
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 23/08/2011 19:33:17
Originally by: Sports Bet
Originally by: Andrea Roche
I am in my 30s. English is my first language.


In that case you need a new spelling penguin. Using proper syntax, spelling and grammar goes a long way into having people see that you might have a point.

In addition, your information seems... stretched, at best. You may need to make sure you know what you're talking about before you try to prove the rest of us that we're wrong and you are right.

Respectfully.

lol believe it or not, its not that i got bad spelling. For the most part its cos i managed to spill coffe the other day on it and now some keys are acting up. But i like the keyboard and i could not be bothered to buy a new keyboard since i may end up replacing the pc all together soon.

Edit: you can actually tell thats mostly the left hand side of the keyboard XD
Edit: I forgot "In addition, your information seems... stretched, at best. You may need to make sure you know what you're talking about before you try to prove the rest of us that we're wrong and you are right."..Can you be more specific where am i stretching it?
Where do i dont know what i am talking about?

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.23 19:39:00 - [321]
 

Yea I know what you mean, I spilt a cappuccino once and typed in Italian for a week.


Pages: first : previous : ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only