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Bob Blackey
Posted - 2011.08.12 14:22:00 - [1]
 

For obvious reasons this post is being made as an alt.

I am now getting more into industry and am regularly moving loads to and from jita worth in the range of 500m - 1b. I have started using battleships to move the cargos because I am concerned that indys are unsafe. Also most of the stuff I sell is relatively small so a bs has enough cargo space for my needs.

So what ships would you recommend to haul stuff to and from jita. Is it safe to use auto pilot or is that too dangerous?

I have tried googling this but as so often seems the case with eve all the articles I have found are several years old when this was more of a problem.

TIA

Jiska Ensa
Posted - 2011.08.12 14:30:00 - [2]
 

Cloaky blocade runners. And don't autopilot, no matter what ship you are using. Some people will just sit there and scan any ship that's autopiloting.

Derath Ellecon
Posted - 2011.08.12 14:53:00 - [3]
 

Blockade runners are win. I love flying mine. Not even so much do to the safety, but also the speed. It has the cargo of a small transport, with the speed and align time of a frigate.

Not only do I not worry about suicide gankers, I generally take the shortest path all the time as well, regardless of the low sec.

Franny
Mentis Seorsum
Posted - 2011.08.12 14:54:00 - [4]
 

orca / freighter, both slower than ****(but a lot more costly to suicide, cargo has to be somewhere between 2 and 3b iirc to be worth suiciding... doing it for tears tho is supposedly priceless)
orca has the unscannable 'cargo' area

after that cloak with a blockade runner(don't auto pilot it, it WILL go wrong the time you do, so says my alt's loss mail Laughing )

Danico Buchald
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.12 16:35:00 - [5]
 

Thirding blockade runners. Don't use autopilot. Use undock bookmarks.

Loki Sei
Posted - 2011.08.12 16:44:00 - [6]
 

While you have told us the value, you have neglected to tell us the m3.

If it under 7k m3 then nothing beats a cloaky transport.

If it gets over 20-30k m3 then you are going to have to make multiple runs, and then the smaller cloaky transport does not make as much sense.

For larger loads, I personally use an orca with a 100mn MWD and a tank. Sacrifice the lows for Power Grid mod and a nano. Gets off the gate in 1 cycle of the MWD and has enough tank it is going to take a coordinated effort to gank you. Also not sure if the Corp Hanger is still "unscanable" or if the nerfed that.

So alot of the answer depends on the volume you are hauling, as well as the value.

Veronica Kerrigan
Minmatar
Hand Of Midas
F0RCEFUL ENTRY
Posted - 2011.08.12 17:09:00 - [7]
 

I doubt many people would think to chekc an abaddon that was going to Jita, and if they did, this would be the ship that would keep you alive


[Abaddon, Tanky Hauling]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.12 17:39:00 - [8]
 

There is a moon directly off the Jita 4-4 undock. Make a bookmark between it and the station. Using this bookmark to insta-undock IMMEDIATELY (before the session change timer expires -- not on by default, so enable it -- you are invulnerable), you can get out of the crowd in pretty much any ship.

That leaves the rest of the route as the only hazard, specifically when departing a gate. Unless you are AFK, then approaching a gate is when gankers will attack.

I use a freighter (Charon) for nearly all transport. If I want to AFK something extremely valuable, then I use an Orca, as it has an unscannable corporate hangar and ship hangar. The Orca is slower AFK than the Charon though, and the Charon is the slowest freighter.

Recently I moved over 8 billion ISK worth of ships and modules in a Charon. I used a scout for this one, and looked for battleships on the gates (it takes several to gank a freighter). It was the most I've ever hauled at one time.

If I only have something small to move, I'll use either a Covert Ops or a Blockade Runner. I prefer to use the freighter or Orca though, as insurance against a disconnection or client crash.


Julien Brellier
Posted - 2011.08.12 18:01:00 - [9]
 

If cargo is under 3,000m3, a blockade runenr is the order of the day.
If it is upto 40,000m3, then the unscannable Orca corp cargo hold is the way to go.

You can also carry up to 77,500m3 in total on a max skill ORca, with an EHP over 280,000.

Phugoid
Posted - 2011.08.12 18:10:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Phugoid on 12/08/2011 18:10:10
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
There is a moon directly off the Jita 4-4 undock. Make a bookmark between it and the station. Using this bookmark to insta-undock IMMEDIATELY (before the session change timer expires -- not on by default, so enable it -- you are invulnerable), you can get out of the crowd in pretty much any ship.

That leaves the rest of the route as the only hazard, specifically when departing a gate. Unless you are AFK, then approaching a gate is when gankers will attack.

I use a freighter (Charon) for nearly all transport. If I want to AFK something extremely valuable, then I use an Orca, as it has an unscannable corporate hangar and ship hangar. The Orca is slower AFK than the Charon though, and the Charon is the slowest freighter.


Recently I moved over 8 billion ISK worth of ships and modules in a Charon. I used a scout for this one, and looked for battleships on the gates (it takes several to gank a freighter). It was the most I've ever hauled at one time.

If I only have something small to move, I'll use either a Covert Ops or a Blockade Runner. I prefer to use the freighter or Orca though, as insurance against a disconnection or client crash.




Tau... what do you mean by "before session change timer expires" ?

Krixtal Icefluxor
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.12 18:11:00 - [11]
 


Slap a Large Ancilliary Current Router Rig to your Orca and disable your High Slot modules for transporting purposes as you will need to fit a 100mn MWD on that Orca.

That MWD will get you in Warp guaranteed 10 seconds from any point in space. Station undocks are 2 or 3 cycles of MWD depending.

12 Jumps to Dodixie with full Orca Cargo in aroound 10 minutes, if.

It's a Godsend seriously.



Krixtal Icefluxor
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.12 18:13:00 - [12]
 


Originally by: Tau Cabalander
That leaves the rest of the route as the only hazard, specifically when departing a gate. Unless you are AFK, then approaching a gate is when gankers will attack.




......either I'm missing something or this is contradictory.......


Loki Sei
Posted - 2011.08.12 18:51:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
That leaves the rest of the route as the only hazard, specifically when departing a gate. Unless you are AFK, then approaching a gate is when gankers will attack.




......either I'm missing something or this is contradictory.......




I believe he is saying that getting off the gate is the dangerous part, unless you autopilot, then getting to the gate is when the will attack. Since if you are jumping to zero, there is not a lot of time gank you on approach.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.12 21:06:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 12/08/2011 21:52:07
Originally by: Phugoid
Tau... what do you mean by "before session change timer expires" ?
When you undock from a station, you start a 30 second session change timer that prevents you from certain activities, like re-docking or jumping.

You can see the time remaining by enabling the timer in your settings (checkbox near the top left of general I think), and mousing-over the timer (spinning clock face).

While the session change counter is running, and you don't change direction or activate any modules (you can CTRL SPACEBAR and stop though), your ship cannot be targeted. I shouldn't have said invulnerable, because I think (?) it can be hit by AoE weapons, but otherwise in hisec for all intents and purposes you are invulnerable during that time.
Originally by: Loki Sei
Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
That leaves the rest of the route as the only hazard, specifically when departing a gate. Unless you are AFK, then approaching a gate is when gankers will attack.
......either I'm missing something or this is contradictory.......
I believe he is saying that getting off the gate is the dangerous part, unless you autopilot, then getting to the gate is when the will attack. Since if you are jumping to zero, there is not a lot of time gank you on approach.
Yes.

When you warp to zero and jump, there is nothing gankers can do on the incoming gate, however on the outgoing gate they have time to bump you out of alignment, or lock target and shoot while you are accelerating to warp speed.

When you are AFK on autopilot, the ship lands 15 km from the gate, travels until it is 2.5 km from the gate, then jumps. This is a lot longer than the time spent accelerating to warp on the outgoing gate. Even a solo attacker can easily get in front of the ship and keep bumping it away from the gate until their fleet of friends arrive to help gank it.

Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Slap a Large Ancilliary Current Router Rig to your Orca and disable your High Slot modules for transporting purposes as you will need to fit a 100mn MWD on that Orca.

That MWD will get you in Warp guaranteed 10 seconds from any point in space. Station undocks are 2 or 3 cycles of MWD depending.

12 Jumps to Dodixie with full Orca Cargo in aroound 10 minutes, if.

It's a Godsend seriously.
Yes, I do that all the time, but it only works if you are at the keyboard (ATK) and not AFK. Plus, all you need is a reactor control to fit a 100MN MWD temporarily. Every Orca should keep these modules on hand (and a few others) in the corporate hangar.

Oh, and it only takes one MWD cycle if you are aligned, or not moving. I often find it is easier to CTRL SPACEBAR out of the station, then single cycle the MWD to warp away, but it won't work on a busy station like Jita 4-4.

Hendr1x
Posted - 2011.08.12 22:35:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Jiska Ensa
Cloaky blocade runners. And don't autopilot, no matter what ship you are using. Some people will just sit there and scan any ship that's autopiloting.


I second that. If you're really hauling things worth anything don't autopilot. Train transports to 4...you don't have to, but it's a good idea. They haul very fast and cloaked.

Thatsbecause
Posted - 2011.08.13 00:04:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Thatsbecause on 13/08/2011 00:06:57
There's the close to invulnerable route, using either a Cov ops or a Blockade Runner. Jump thru a gate, warp to next gate and cloak up immediately. If you do it right, you can never be targeted. (edit, this works in an SB, cloaky recon or cloaky t3 as well, obviously.)

Then there's the orca-freighter route. Lots of EHP, only the most organized gankers will have a chance, and you'll need to have some very high-value cargo for them to want to target you. Sticking to 1.0 - 0.7 systems helps too.

Then there is the courier contract route. There are corps and players that will haul for you, and while it may cut into profits, if you set collateral correctly, you will never lose money, even if a gank does happen, the 3rd party is shouldering the risk rather than you.

And never autopilot.

Franny
Mentis Seorsum
Posted - 2011.08.13 00:34:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Recently I moved over 8 billion ISK worth of ships and modules in a Charon. I used a scout for this one, and looked for battleships on the gates (it takes several to gank a freighter). It was the most I've ever hauled at one time.


only 8b
Laughing

what's the going on an Ogre 2 BPO these days?(granted I hauled it yrs ago when the lotto was still going)
I hauled that in an Arazu, from low sec(where the agent I won it from was)
nearly **** myself on every jump

Phugoid
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:23:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Phugoid on 17/08/2011 16:23:05
Hey Tau Cabalander.....

this is your quote:

"While the session change counter is running, and you don't change direction or activate any modules (you can CTRL SPACEBAR and stop though), your ship cannot be targeted. I shouldn't have said invulnerable, because I think (?) it can be hit by AoE weapons, but otherwise in hisec for all intents and purposes you are invulnerable during that time."

I was ganked undocking from Jita one day, and it was immediatley just after I undocked. So what happened there?

SENTIENEL
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:45:00 - [19]
 



Rookie Ship Ibis. They are popular in forge region. All newbies flying in them around. No1 scan rookiships. I remember once I carried 150 BPO in ibis :) gankers are peanutbrain but they learn eventually. lol now I need to change my favrt ship

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:14:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 17/08/2011 18:14:25
Originally by: Phugoid
I was ganked undocking from Jita one day, and it was immediatley just after I undocked. So what happened there?

Iteron V destroyed by an alpha (gank) Apoc: You probably undocked then tried to warp to a gate. During this time, you were no longer protected. It takes time to change heading and accelerate to warp, which gives attackers ample amount of time to lock target and fire.

You should have warped to an insta-undock bookmark (there is a moon aligned with the Jita 4-4 undock that you can make a bookmark between), then aligned and warped to the gate from there.

Warping direct to a gate from a trade hub undock with valuable cargo is often suicide.

Phugoid
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:25:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Phugoid on 17/08/2011 18:41:17
Edited by: Phugoid on 17/08/2011 18:25:44
Thanks for the quick response Tau!

And yes, good advise sir. In that particular incident I was complacent. On top of that I did have an insta-spot to warp to, but didnt use it :( I had just completed a courier run TO Jita succesfully, and then just undocked on my way to the another delivery when...... KABOOOM!

Complacency, especially at Hubs can be deadly. Lesson learned tho, and thanks again!

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:40:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 17/08/2011 18:14:25
Originally by: Phugoid
I was ganked undocking from Jita one day, and it was immediatley just after I undocked. So what happened there?

Iteron V destroyed by an alpha (gank) Apoc: You probably undocked then tried to warp to a gate. During this time, you were no longer protected. It takes time to change heading and accelerate to warp, which gives attackers ample amount of time to lock target and fire.

You should have warped to an insta-undock bookmark (there is a moon aligned with the Jita 4-4 undock that you can make a bookmark between), then aligned and warped to the gate from there.

Warping direct to a gate from a trade hub undock with valuable cargo is often suicide.



There is actually a station straight out (can't recall the name off hand) that is pretty much an insta undock just warp to it at some distance other than 0, once you land then warp to your out gate at 0.

As far as moving lower volume high value cargo in high sec, nothing beats the Orca for safety. properly fit it's got a couple hundred thousand EHP so nothing but the most serous gank squad is going to kill it, then you have the fact that stuff in the corporate hanger poofs when the ship is destroyed meaning that unless the Orca pilot is stupid and put something in the regular cargo then there is no financial incentive to gank it and most the groups that can gank an Orca aren't going to blow their isk and security standing just for lulz particularly when that Charon coming up behind you will create just as many lulz and likely a profit to boot.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.18 09:51:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 17/08/2011 18:14:25
Originally by: Phugoid
I was ganked undocking from Jita one day, and it was immediatley just after I undocked. So what happened there?

Iteron V destroyed by an alpha (gank) Apoc: You probably undocked then tried to warp to a gate. During this time, you were no longer protected. It takes time to change heading and accelerate to warp, which gives attackers ample amount of time to lock target and fire.

You should have warped to an insta-undock bookmark (there is a moon aligned with the Jita 4-4 undock that you can make a bookmark between), then aligned and warped to the gate from there.

Warping direct to a gate from a trade hub undock with valuable cargo is often suicide.



There is actually a station straight out (can't recall the name off hand) that is pretty much an insta undock just warp to it at some distance other than 0, once you land then warp to your out gate at 0.



think it's jita 4 moon 5 or something... I warp to some ransom distance from the moon... and then will set the next month's insta while en-route Cool

Xearal
Minmatar
SOL Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.18 10:19:00 - [24]
 

I second(third? fourth? fifth?) blockade runners, when carrying up to 8000m3 worth of small stuff, cloaky one will be very nice and very very fast.
Otherwise, the big fat one is also a good option for if you're carrying more. ( Mastodon can carry about 30k m3 not using cans )
The big fat ones ( with +2 warp strength ), are slower, but they have a tank beyond compare, definitely enough to hold out to a bunch of alpha battleships if you fit it properly.
I use the cloaky one most of the time myself, because I like the speed, and I tend to go through low and null sec with it as well.
They aren't completely safe, but pretty much as close to as possible. Only way they can get you is if they have a fast locking ship that is able to lock you in the time between you engaging warp and you activating your cloak.

marketslave
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.08.24 13:52:00 - [25]
 

Freighter + Rapier = I win Twisted Evil
Insta Warp fom Gate to Gate...

Lowkey Asgaurd
Minmatar
Fluffy Carebears
Posted - 2011.08.25 11:06:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: marketslave
Freighter + Rapier = I win Twisted Evil
Insta Warp fom Gate to Gate...


So the insta warp web trick still works ?

Miyo Chuchi
Posted - 2011.08.25 13:53:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: SENTIENEL


Rookie Ship Ibis. They are popular in forge region. All newbies flying in them around. No1 scan rookiships. I remember once I carried 150 BPO in ibis :) gankers are peanutbrain but they learn eventually. lol now I need to change my favrt ship


Fancy being the next Aystra?

Kesshisan
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.25 14:11:00 - [28]
 

I do a lot of salvaging. And most of that material is tiny. I've hauled ~ 1 billion isk worth of goods in a nano'd Rifter. It's practically impossible to target that thing before it aligns. In fact I love it so much I attached some low friction nozzle joints.

I find the Rifter works well for transporting blueprints, salvage, some of the more expensive minerals, and anything else that's expensive but tiny.

You can also use the microwarpdrive + cloak trick for increased safety. Of course if you get the blockade runner, this is unnecessary.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.25 14:39:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Lowkey Asgaurd
Originally by: marketslave
Freighter + Rapier = I win Twisted Evil
Insta Warp fom Gate to Gate...


So the insta warp web trick still works ?


mostly, it's a little more involved than back when we had 90% webs...

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2011.08.25 14:45:00 - [30]
 

Put your small, high-value items inside containers and then put the containers inside courier contracts. None of the valuable items will then appear on cargo scan results, so people will generally be unwilling to commit to a suicide attack. See here for further details.


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