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Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.08.14 14:12:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Aamrr
Titans are one of the few anti-blob weapons left. When someone brings a blob of 600 battleships to the field and lag gets so heavy that bombs won't detonate anymore, there has to be some defense available besides bringing down the node.

Eve should be more than "numbers always win."


Don`t be silly, titans are also "numbers". It just means you can wield power of 10-30 people with one account.

Caldari Citizen20110707
The Official Hyperdallas Fanclub
Posted - 2011.08.14 20:40:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: 1Of9
OP is obviously a goon, once more, crying for welp from ccp

"plz nerf our enemies so we can survive"

once more, like eve history many times over have shown, goons cant do s**t alone, someone have to carry them around. since NC(non-dot) is gone, only entity left is ccp and the bazilion of goons working there.

can you ear them? "WELPPPPPPP"

i sure can


Nerf it pls
even frigats die to it, wtb nerft. If 1 titan can kill 3-4 bs in 1 minut how can u possible counter super blob?

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.14 21:41:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Medidranda Livoga
Don`t be silly, titans are also "numbers". It just means you can wield power of 10-30 people with one account.


I seriously doubt Aamrr actually thought his position all the way through to the likely endstate of everyone having **** loads of titans. Especially not when one of "blob" blocs he complains about already has more titans than any other entity in the game.

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.08.15 01:22:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Veshta Yoshida

When it comes to market balance (price/availability) sure it is a major factor, but for ship-to-ship balance?
I have killed Recons in a Punisher and HACs in a Slicer, player skill/experience (not to be mistaken for character skill) is infinitely more important.
If you managed to pull those kills off, it was because of a HUGE discrepancy in skill, skillpoints, or just dumb luck. Like I said, it's not the ONLY balancing factor, but that doesn't mean it's not important. Think of it this way: Who wins a fight, an omen or a zealot? vexor/ishtar? incursus/ishkur etc. Sure, it might be POSSIBLE for the underdog to win, but it's highly unlikely.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.15 06:20:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Aamrr on 15/08/2011 06:22:00
Originally by: Medidranda Livoga
Originally by: Aamrr
Titans are one of the few anti-blob weapons left. When someone brings a blob of 600 battleships to the field and lag gets so heavy that bombs won't detonate anymore, there has to be some defense available besides bringing down the node.

Eve should be more than "numbers always win."


Don`t be silly, titans are also "numbers". It just means you can wield power of 10-30 people with one account.


The same could be said of any isk investment. The point of varying item quality is to allow those with limited human resources to compete with a different resource, subject to eve's standard rule of diminishing returns.

Titans just happen to be the farthest end of this spectrum. Now, you could certainly argue that the returns aren't quite as diminished as they ought to be, but there needs to be some level of performance commensurate with the investment.

And if a group happens to possess both human and isk resources necessary to take an objective, I think it's awfully reasonable that they ought to succeed. That's what happens when large, well-funded, well-coordinated groups work together.

Edit: And if you're going to insist on quoting me over and over just to mock me for pointing out the self-evident fact that isk helps one person fight several, I'd appreciate it if you used the right pronouns. Thanks, gracias, kiitos, whatever.

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.15 10:08:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 15/08/2011 10:08:22
Originally by: Aamrr
snip


So do you still believe that with the largest 0.0 bloc having the most titans, they are still an "anti-blob" weapon?

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.15 12:17:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Aamrr on 15/08/2011 12:37:20
I'd go so far as to say that anything that lets lets one account kill several is "anti-blob.". That's more or less the definition -- a tool which lets those without superior numbers compete with those who do.

And if a group happens to possess both numbers AND isk, that group is probably best referred to as "successful." Now, if you want to argue that fielding a titan blob should not be economically or tactically feasible, then that's another matter entirely and probably one you should bring up to Team BFF's nullsec revisions.

1Of9
Gallente
The Circle
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.08.15 14:09:00 - [38]
 

goon tears ........... sooooo delicious

nom nom nom

moar plz! moaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:10:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Aamrr
Edited by: Aamrr on 15/08/2011 12:37:20
I'd go so far as to say that anything that lets lets one account kill several is "anti-blob.". That's more or less the definition -- a tool which lets those without superior numbers compete with those who do.

And if a group happens to possess both numbers AND isk, that group is probably best referred to as "successful." Now, if you want to argue that fielding a titan blob should not be economically or tactically feasible, then that's another matter entirely and probably one you should bring up to Team BFF's nullsec revisions.
This is quite possibly the only argument I have seen for not nerfing supers that I actually agree with. That said, titans specifically don't bother me all that much, because all they did was replace dreads as the frontline ship of choice in larger scale engagements (though I would agree that dreads need to lose their tracking penalties, and titans need to acquire one) I personally prefer this, not so much because of the fact that dread combat is boring as all hell, but because it makes engagements look a LOT cooler when each side is losing titans/SCs instead of carriers and dreads. All that isk loss makes me Very Happy

freshspree
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:29:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: freshspree on 15/08/2011 15:51:05
Edited by: freshspree on 15/08/2011 15:49:53
Edited by: freshspree on 15/08/2011 15:41:54
Edited by: freshspree on 15/08/2011 15:37:37
Originally by: Mfume Apocal
Originally by: Aamrr
Titans are one of the few anti-blob weapons left. When someone brings a blob of 600 battleships to the field and lag gets so heavy that bombs won't detonate anymore, there has to be some defense available besides bringing down the node.


What happens when "the blob" has titans?


You dock for cover.Smile


Originally by: Caldari Citizen20110707
SHould this be possible no... Why is erebus possible to do this? Wtb nerf killign 3 battleships in under a minut is insane


An erebus with 2 officer tracking comps (meta 14) loaded with scripts has a little less than a 1400mm so it does make sense and they are not dreadnoughts and were never meant to be.

Originally by: Mfume Apocal
Originally by: Medidranda Livoga
Don`t be silly, titans are also "numbers". It just means you can wield power of 10-30 people with one account.


I seriously doubt Aamrr actually thought his position all the way through to the likely endstate of everyone having **** loads of titans. Especially not when one of "blob" blocs he complains about already has more titans than any other entity in the game.


The eve universe is expanding which leads to more isk in the economy and obviously more ships. You can't expect people who can afford titans to not field them in sov warfare just to let you have a go at winning or the so called 'fair' fight that you guys dream of. Titans don't just drop from the sky, ya know?

Leila Loraine
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:39:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Leila Loraine on 15/08/2011 15:39:18
Edit: wrong char

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:40:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Drykor on 15/08/2011 15:41:53
The issue with titans (or motherships) isn't necessarily the damage, but the fact that they can just logoff when they're losing a fight. In a big blob, this means that the losing fleet may lose a couple of them but the winning fleet definitely won't have enough time to kill all of them. When a solo titan or mothership gets tackled by a subcap fleet (possibly including a dread) it can still disappear after the aggro timer.

15 minutes used to be more than enough to kill anything, but it just wasn't intended for supercapitals and all the hp buffs that Eve has had over the years. Now logoff mechanics are pretty lame as they are, but when they become a can't-lose button obviously something is wrong.

Solution: make supercap agression timer 1 hour. That means supercaps won't get used as solo pwnmobiles so much anymore AND it will make sure they actually blow up in a big fleet vs fleet fight.

They can still log off relatively safely inside a POS or after jumping into another system.

freshspree
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:48:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Drykor
Edited by: Drykor on 15/08/2011 15:41:53
The issue with titans (or motherships) isn't necessarily the damage, but the fact that they can just logoff when they're losing a fight. In a big blob, this means that the losing fleet may lose a couple of them but the winning fleet definitely won't have enough time to kill all of them. When a solo titan or mothership gets tackled by a subcap fleet (possibly including a dread) it can still disappear after the aggro timer.

15 minutes used to be more than enough to kill anything, but it just wasn't intended for supercapitals and all the hp buffs that Eve has had over the years. Now logoff mechanics are pretty lame as they are, but when they become a can't-lose button obviously something is wrong.

Solution: make supercap agression timer 1 hour. That means supercaps won't get used as solo pwnmobiles so much anymore AND it will make sure they actually blow up in a big fleet vs fleet fight.

They can still log off relatively safely inside a POS or after jumping into another system.


There are more than 30 vids of supers getting owned after logging off on youtube. Just saying.

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:53:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: freshspree


There are more than 30 vids of supers getting owned after logging off on youtube. Just saying.


What does that have to do with anything? I never said they cannot die after logging off, but a significant amount of the fleet WILL be safe and losses will be fairly minor compared to what should have been blown up in a lost fight.

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.15 16:41:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 15/08/2011 17:02:09
Originally by: Aamrr
Eve should be more than "numbers always win."


Originally by: Aamrr
And if a group happens to possess both human and isk resources necessary to take an objective, I think it's awfully reasonable that they ought to succeed. That's what happens when large, well-funded, well-coordinated groups work together.


mmmm

freshspree
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Posted - 2011.08.15 17:34:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Drykor
Originally by: freshspree


There are more than 30 vids of supers getting owned after logging off on youtube. Just saying.


What does that have to do with anything? I never said they cannot die after logging off, but a significant amount of the fleet WILL be safe and losses will be fairly minor compared to what should have been blown up in a lost fight.


That was the impression you gave in your comment. You said "15 minutes used to be more than enough to kill anything, but it just wasn't intended for supercapitals and all the hp buffs that Eve has had over the years. Now logoff mechanics are pretty lame as they are, but when they become a can't-lose button obviously something is wrong." Do you remember now?Smile
It doesn't change the fact that log off timers need a revamp and not only for supers.

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.08.15 19:19:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: freshspree
That was the impression you gave in your comment. You said "15 minutes used to be more than enough to kill anything, but it just wasn't intended for supercapitals and all the hp buffs that Eve has had over the years. Now logoff mechanics are pretty lame as they are, but when they become a can't-lose button obviously something is wrong." Do you remember now?Smile
It doesn't change the fact that log off timers need a revamp and not only for supers.


Well you must have only read that part of the post then.

Trin Javidan
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:23:00 - [48]
 

i endorse this product


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