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VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.08.11 07:25:00 - [1]
 

Wanted to make a general thread about these, just because I've felt like playing them lately.


Check out Path of Exile.
It's an upcoming action RPG basically using the FF7 materia system.
F2P with cash shop. Taking beta applications atm.
http://pathofexile.com/video/skill-system-demonstration/play


I just finished Titan Quest on normal difficulty and wasn't that impressed. The class system seemed to boil down to only a few things you actually 'used', and they didn't change who won a fight. It was just an RPG where I had to have higher stats then my enemies. I didn't need to dodge things or position myself like other action RPG's. I got bored of the combat and started cheating to try out all the spells/buffs at once and play with the l337 items on epic, then quit.

Going to give Torchlight another try. I hated it the first time through but I see that over time it's become a sensation to some degree. If I still don't like it, I'm going to install D2 and give that another go instead. D2 was always the most fun to actually play, even though I think I like it's skill system the least of any I've played, fighting it's enemies and bosses was more involved then TQ was.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.08.11 09:27:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Sader Rykane on 11/08/2011 09:47:15
I found Titan Quest like last week and have been kicking myself about how I could have missed this game over the last 4 years.

I now have a level 55 Melee Elemtalist (Earth/Storm), 50 Harbinger (Dream/Warfare), and 42 Ranger (Hunter/Nature) and am just starting to go through Legendary difficulty.

Haven't cheated once and this game is ****ing fantastic. Normal difficulty is a JOKE, epic difficulty starts getting interesting (read: Painful. Things start hitting for upwards of 600-700 damage and I only have like 3.6k health) in act 3/4. Trying reaching legendary without cheating and the game becomes a LOT of fun.

Also many of the best items in Titan Quest aren't even Epic or Blue; they're green items with good runes.

*EDIT*

Try Titan Quest again; and if you want a more "active" character try a Melee Elementalist. It gives you all the goodies of the mage while letting you get right in the thick of things and beat the **** out of everything with a sword/mace/whatever or hit them from afar with a mage staff.

My character has three active spells (Eruption, Chain Lightning, and Squall); 200% attack speed and when I get hit I've got like 5-6 retaliatory spells that trigger that stun, slow, or damage anything standing near me or hitting me.

Here's the video I used as a guide for my character when I first started, my build is much different than that one though because now I know a bit better for one his is still more mage than warrior; where I don't bother with pets and focus almost completly on hitting hard as **** and taking all damage thrown at me. My character is a lot better than his if I do say so myself. Very Happy.


Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.08.11 09:33:00 - [3]
 

TQ has quite a lot of bugs, however. On my comp, it had sounds only the first time I launched it.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.08.11 09:47:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
TQ has quite a lot of bugs, however. On my comp, it had sounds only the first time I launched it.


Haven't seen a single bug yet.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.11 10:02:00 - [5]
 

Sacred 2 was awesome, but it is an unfinished game since the developer went bankrupt and there was never a proper Windows 7 patch. As a result the game runs fine on XP with beautiful physicX effects but constantly crashing on windows 7.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.08.11 12:13:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 11/08/2011 12:16:08
Never saw a bug in TQ... did all the side quests I ran into, explored most areas completely. No issues.

TQ was definitely a 'cool' game, lots to like, but the combat is crap. I feel a lot like I did when I quit City of Heroes. It was just playing with expensive dolls between sessions of playing a weak game. If you had no rune or item system, you'd never actually sit there and play TQ, CoH, or many other online games. The actual gameplay is just too weak to be enjoyable sometimes and they have to make the game 'good' in other ways.

Any other action RPG you can name is better, with interrupting attacks, strange shaped spells you need to hit with, enemies you can dodge and play with. TQ was also entirely flat with no use of terrain at all. I never hopped over anything, dodged anything, timed anything, or needed to move a fight somewhere to my advantage.

I'd rather throw quarters in an arcade machine and play Gauntlet Legends.



Someone reminded me that they put in respecs for D2 along with the Den of Evil reward. True some classes in D2 are pretty brainless, too... but I think I'll DL that and play one of the tricky builds like a combo assassin or maybe a fire druid using the boulder spell. That thing is pretty fun.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.08.11 15:00:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: VKhaun Vex
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 11/08/2011 12:16:08
Never saw a bug in TQ... did all the side quests I ran into, explored most areas completely. No issues.

TQ was definitely a 'cool' game, lots to like, but the combat is crap. I feel a lot like I did when I quit City of Heroes. It was just playing with expensive dolls between sessions of playing a weak game. If you had no rune or item system, you'd never actually sit there and play TQ, CoH, or many other online games. The actual gameplay is just too weak to be enjoyable sometimes and they have to make the game 'good' in other ways.

Any other action RPG you can name is better, with interrupting attacks, strange shaped spells you need to hit with, enemies you can dodge and play with. TQ was also entirely flat with no use of terrain at all. I never hopped over anything, dodged anything, timed anything, or needed to move a fight somewhere to my advantage.

I'd rather throw quarters in an arcade machine and play Gauntlet Legends.



Someone reminded me that they put in respecs for D2 along with the Den of Evil reward. True some classes in D2 are pretty brainless, too... but I think I'll DL that and play one of the tricky builds like a combo assassin or maybe a fire druid using the boulder spell. That thing is pretty fun.


Here I made this video just for you, since you never went to epic difficulty with a legit character. As you can clearly see standing still is a good way to get you killed and the combat is actually VERY fun. I can't wait to see how hard legendary difficulty is. You are right, normal difficulty was a joke but that's because its supposed to be.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.08.12 02:40:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Here I made this video just for you, since you never went to epic difficulty with a legit character. As you can clearly see standing still is a good way to get you killed and the combat is actually VERY fun. I can't wait to see how hard legendary difficulty is. You are right, normal difficulty was a joke but that's because its supposed to be.


I like how you tried to pull a bugs bunny and switch positions with me.

Unfortunately I was the one who said it had shallow gameplay, and that it was just numbers going up. You can't turn around and act like I'm wrong because I didn't see how high the numbers could get. You'd have to show me gameplay that's not shallow and you haven't done that.

You just made a video of a bunch of enemies that stand toe to toe with you, or stand still and wait to be beaten to death, while you play another character exactly as I described. No one is fooled when you run in a circle around a harpy to dodge one projectile and then take more to the face while you kill it and it never has a chance of killing you. The Hades fight you didn't even dodge his interesting high damage attacks. Every one of his big spells put a red number over your head and you only dodged the tiny stuff. Any random Ogre in Torchlight or lightning enchant in D2 is more interesting to fight than that.

I think it's especially telling that you posted a high-end boss run as an example... You don't even realize that being a max level that can do a run like that is supposed to be boring end game farming, to give items to another character for a new play through. In other games the play through is more interesting then the slaughtering boss with high stats characters, and you don't even get it because of how bland TQ is to walk through. Nightmare+ D2 is a lot of fun to walk. Torchlight is probably 'better' but the environments kill it for me. I feel like there's no room to play in on Torchlight. TQ is just watching numbers go up. Though I admit it is the prettiest game of the three.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.08.12 18:44:00 - [9]
 

A couple key points I'de like to point out to you.

The only thing I agreed with you on was the normal difficulty was easy. So was normal difficulty in Diablo. You can't judge a game on its easiest difficulty, then cheat, and expect to not be bored.

Quote:
You just made a video of a bunch of enemies that stand toe to toe with ....


Like 99.9% of hack and slash games out there. I don't remember Diablo II enemies doing anything special yet you seem willing to go back and play that. I love Diablo II, and this game is like a full on Diablo II clone which makes it awesome in my book.

But to answer your more specific questions I'll give you an actual play by play of what went on into the Harpy fight and I'll even provide the timestamps!

03:34 I reach the harpy and pull two big robots. Notice I'm not just diving in and attempting to tank everything.

03:41 Robot throws out a flame nuke that 1) Kills my pet and 2) Destroys my fire shield. My pet provides a 100% increased elemantal damage buff and my flame shield reduces all damage taken by 15%. However the shield also absorbs 100 fire damage which causes it to pop. Tanking the harpy and all 4 robots would have been too much damage because the robots also stun. I fall back kill the two robots and recast buffs.

04:11 I dive in to kill the harpy + 2 robots but the Harpy casts here most dangerous attack. The big green/teal circle that can completly drain my mana. Why is this bad? Well you see my character is extremely buff dependent, 60-70% of my damage comes from buffs. My character has a total of 6 personal buffs (the seventh buff is my pets which is the 100% elemental damage).

Earth Enchant: Increased my fire damage done by 108% while also increasing the damage my sword does.
Storm Nimbus: Increases my lightning / cold damage by ~80% while also decreasing the attack speed of anything that hits me. Also increases my sword damage with ice/lightning.
Storm Surge: Procs that electric nova that stuns anything near me when I get hit.
Ring of Fire: Damages enemies that stand near me.
Heat shield: Reduces damage taken by 15%
Energy Shield: Chance to reflect ~50% of damage I take.

04:29 Robots are now dead, dodge one more of harpies mana drains and finish her off because without her robots she isn't much of a threat. At that point I didn't have to dodge anything and any movement are accidental mouse clicks.


Quote:
The Hades fight you didn't even dodge his interesting high damage attacks. Every one of his big spells put a red number over your head and you only dodged the tiny stuff.


I find this part of your post to be particularly interesting. Especially considering how many times I nearly died during that fight because I wasn't fast enough to get out of the way of some of his attacks. You also might want to pay attention to my potion timer to see why sometimes I was in his face, and why other times I wasn't.

06:49 Nearly dead.
07:04 Nearly dead.
08:05 Nearly dead.
09:07 Nearly dead.
09:09 Nearly dead.
09:13 Nearly dead.





Quote:
I think it's especially telling that you posted a high-end boss run as an example... You don't even realize that being a max level that can do a run like that is supposed to be boring end game farming, to give items to another character for a new play through. In other games the play through is more interesting then the slaughtering boss with high stats characters, and you don't even get it because of how bland TQ is to walk through.


A couple things to point out here.

Level 55 isn't the max level, its not even close.

Epic difficulty isn't the last difficulty, it's actually the middle. (Normal, Epic, Legendary).

This game is a Diablo clone; what kind of depth are you expecting? No one was ever mentally challenged with Diablo II gameplay and that's not really the point. In fact the entire game is about getting gear to make the gameplay easier and progressing, which is actually the fun part. After thats done, the games over.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.08.12 18:51:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Sader Rykane on 12/08/2011 18:56:17
Quote:
Every one of his big spells put a red number over your head and you only dodged the tiny stuff.


Oh sorry didn't see that part.

Every attack he does puts the red number. I have a mod that shows all damage taken. So there were no "little spells". Those are all his attacks and in ghost form that blue nuke I keep dodging hits for like 1400 damage and has a chance to stun and slow. If I get unlucky and he stuns me while low and then chain stuns with another nuke I'm ****ed.

*EDIT*

The times where you see him attacking and no damage numbers are misses. The blue smoke that you see me cast is called Squall, it reduces damage I take by like 30% and gives people a chance to miss, which explains why I'm always fighting inside it.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.08.12 21:02:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 12/08/2011 21:03:21
Quote:
I don't remember Diablo II enemies doing anything special yet you seem willing to go back and play that.


I think this is your problem. You just like TQ too much, maybe because of time invested, to see what it's missing. 'Use pots and run away' is not supposed to be the greatest depths of gameplay for anything. Like I said, any arcade game that only involved that would never get a dollar for a continue from anyone.

Try Torchlight or D2 again. The first ten zones of either are more interesting and have you do more then all of TQ put together. Even on easy. I think you run into Ogres where you can go in under their clubs between attacks on like floor three of TL. Tree Head Wood Fist is pretty famous in D2... he's probably not going to kill you but you know that if you didn't fight him right his group would stunlock you right there at lv10 or so when you reach him.




Anyway, what are other games like this besides the three coming up here?
I think someone mentioned Sacred, I'll have to try that out.

WeirdNoise
Caldari
tagueuletoi
Posted - 2011.08.12 22:07:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: VKhaun Vex

Quote:
I don't remember Diablo II enemies doing anything special yet you seem willing to go back and play that.


I think this is your problem.


I agree with Vkhaun here.
I think the other guy doesn't remember how tricky Diablo 2 combat is.

Blood Raven has you running in circles trying to dodge her arrows. If you're not a tank class they do hurt pretty bad, so much so that you can't remain standing while throwing range attacks because typically you'd be dead in 3 or 4 of Blood Raven's arrows.

At which level are you supposed to face Blood Raven? 4 or 5.

There are nasty bosses of her kind in most zones of Act 1 of Normal difficulty.
And besides these scripted bosses there are random nasty ones as well.
God forbid you picked a build which temporarily puts you at a disadvantage at your current lvl range. In that case you do run, hide, repot, town portal, all of it. And die, not only from bosses.

Nowaday's games are so easy that it's another world. In my time (the 80's), if a game didn't kill you plenty of times as a beginner, it was worthless. No challenge, no fun; no pain, no gain.
Hell, it wasn't enough that it killed you plenty of times.
There was a phase, in the beginning of playing any game, where you genuinely were tested and you wondered if you were gonna be able to make it through. Were you gonna be defeated early on or not?
Were you gonna be able to play through the beginner phase?
Arcade games were like that as well : difficulty made them fun and rewarding. Not everyone completed the games, far from it.

How would the younger generation respond to a game of the difficulty of Diablo 1&2 being released today ?
And it doesn't even qualify as a hard game. But it is challenging.

I wish I had tried Titan Quest, Torchlight etc... but I gave up trying to find a successor to D2. D3 will be everything but that.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.08.13 02:15:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 13/08/2011 02:24:08
Yeah I had the same thought about Blood Raven when I killed her the other night, remembering this person telling me about difficulty.

General Archer enemies aren't a big deal in any action RPG as far as gameplay usually because they fire right into your face when you melee them, but Blood Raven fires infrequently, moves a lot, summons **** block zombies, applies strong slowing effects, and will kill you in just a few hits.

The point is not that she is difficult or easy, the point is you can 'fight' her and never have to use a pot by playing with her timing. I never got that in TQ, ever. Everything was a toe-to-toe stats check.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.08.13 02:18:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: WeirdNoise
Originally by: VKhaun Vex

Quote:
I don't remember Diablo II enemies doing anything special yet you seem willing to go back and play that.


I think this is your problem.


I agree with Vkhaun here.
I think the other guy doesn't remember how tricky Diablo 2 combat is.

Blood Raven has you running in circles trying to dodge her arrows. If you're not a tank class they do hurt pretty bad, so much so that you can't remain standing while throwing range attacks because typically you'd be dead in 3 or 4 of Blood Raven's arrows.

At which level are you supposed to face Blood Raven? 4 or 5.

There are nasty bosses of her kind in most zones of Act 1 of Normal difficulty.
And besides these scripted bosses there are random nasty ones as well.
God forbid you picked a build which temporarily puts you at a disadvantage at your current lvl range. In that case you do run, hide, repot, town portal, all of it. And die, not only from bosses.

Nowaday's games are so easy that it's another world. In my time (the 80's), if a game didn't kill you plenty of times as a beginner, it was worthless. No challenge, no fun; no pain, no gain.
Hell, it wasn't enough that it killed you plenty of times.
There was a phase, in the beginning of playing any game, where you genuinely were tested and you wondered if you were gonna be able to make it through. Were you gonna be defeated early on or not?
Were you gonna be able to play through the beginner phase?
Arcade games were like that as well : difficulty made them fun and rewarding. Not everyone completed the games, far from it.

How would the younger generation respond to a game of the difficulty of Diablo 1&2 being released today ?
And it doesn't even qualify as a hard game. But it is challenging.

I wish I had tried Titan Quest, Torchlight etc... but I gave up trying to find a successor to D2. D3 will be everything but that.



lol blood raven.

Diablo II combat was anything but tricky.

Quick day in the life of my Sword barbarian (one of my MANY characters) in Diablo II.

Whirlwind.Whirlwind.Whirlwind.Whirlwind.Whirlwind.Whirlwind.

/add expansion

Whirlwind.Whirlwind.Whirlwind. Oh **** physical immune. Berserk. Berserk. Berserk. Alright its dead. Whirlwind. Whirlwind. Whirlwind. Whirlwind.

Talk about rose tinted glasses =D. Diablo II was fun for the same reason that Titan Quest is fun. But to pretend it had some sort of deep immersive combat is pretty funny.

*Reponse to OP

Btw I love your "time invested" comment.

I invested nearly 3 years into diablo; and only like only 2 weeks into Titan Quest. Two weeks is hardly enough time to make me feel like I need to defend my "time invested" lol.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.08.13 02:25:00 - [15]
 

You picked a class built to have no gameplay to compare to your game you say has gameplay. And that's supposed to make us wrong.

That's cute.
No one is fooled...
But it's cute you tried it.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.08.13 02:39:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: VKhaun Vex
You picked a class built to have no gameplay to compare to your game you say has gameplay. And that's supposed to make us wrong.

That's cute.
No one is fooled...
But it's cute you tried it.


Quote:
one of my MANY characters


You read very selectively.

You can insert nearly every Diablo class into that statement and its just as true.

Frenzy Barb: FRENZY. RUN SUPER FAST. FRENZY SOME MORE! Don't forget to hump a corpse for pots if you're feeling creative.

Sorc:

Teleport. Frozen Orb.Teleport. Frozen Orb.Teleport. Frozen Orb.Teleport. Frozen Orb. Oh boss. STATIC STATIC STATIC STATIC. Frozen orb.

Replace Frozen orb with firewall, or firewall with chain lightning depending on your spec.

Bowazaon: Multishot.Multishot.Multishot.Multishot.Multishot.Guided arrow.

Javazon: Lightning Javalin.Lightning Javalin.Lightning Javalin.Lightning Javalin.Lightning Javalin.Lightning Javalin. Jab.

Zealot: Zeal. Charge. Zeal Zeal Zeal.

Hammerdin: Grab enigma. Spam Teleport. Launch hammers. Rinse repeat forever!

Pretty much every character had something that they mass spammed and moved on.

In fact probably the only character that "maybe" was a little bit more complex was the Assasin.

Once again; not saying it wasn't fun. But there was hardly any depth in that game. Hell this character in Titan Quest already has twice the active skills that most good D2 characters would have or use.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.08.13 03:18:00 - [17]
 

More builds chosen for bland gameplay with godly gear after the game is already beaten.

Selective reading by ME?
That's a good one.

Once again you think, or want to believe, that bland gameplay after you've already beaten the game is the norm for an action RPG, and that's just sad. All of those builds had to either be power leveled in Baal runs or they played through as something else entirely. Meanwhile TQ feels like that from lv1 on any mastery choice, because the enemies are ******ed and the gameplay is shallow and boring.


...Not that you can actually teleport, have to time meteors (lol firewall spec...), have to choose an aura for the situation, or use a merc to help you in TQ... but I don't need to go there I'm winning the argument even with it going your direction.

Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.13 03:31:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Jon Taggart on 13/08/2011 03:32:07

Thread is now about the supposed superiority of D2 or TQ. I will say though that playing as a summoning Necromancer was the most fun I ever had in any of these types of games.

As for the spirit this thread was created in, you'll want to check out some of these other games:

Mythos
Hellgate: London (Resurrected FPS RPG)
Torchlight 2

Regrettably, I've only been able to play Diablo 2 and enjoy it. The other games just don't feel the same, and I tend to get bored with them very quickly. I think this is because the games are much slower than D2. The characters move slower, combat is slower, the enemies take longer to kill, and there doesn't feel like there are as many of them.

Diablo 2 was fast-paced and riveting.


VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.08.13 03:52:00 - [19]
 

Hate to admit it after talking gameplay, but the skeletons necro was always my favorite and I did two of them in a row through Hell after the upgrade patch for them. I have one on my D2 account now in full Trang Oul's that mixes poison and melee skeletons. Very fun flying around as a ghoul, and it's rare you see physical+poison immune.


I actually went to these games as a break from HG:L lol...

I kept restarting not sure what I wanted to play on that. Thinking double gun guardian with the anti-ranged auras and heal skills, but I fear groups of melee enemies will just stampede over me without the raw DPS or defense of other classes.






Torchlight 2 I will watch. I think Torchlight has the best mindset for skills, but they screw themselves over with their cramped environments you have to play in for a lot of the first game.

Mythos hit me wrong when I first tried it, but I had a bad run. I can't remember what I played but I ended up really weak and sour about it. I'll give that another go. Can't believe I didn't remember it while playing Hellgate!


VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.08.15 06:52:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 15/08/2011 06:51:46
Anyone tried Drakensang Online?

http://us.drakensang.bigpoint.com/

I suddenly remembered it when I was looking around tonight and saw the title in a list. It was in closed beta, or not released at all last I checked on it. Going to give that a try when I get home, since it's in open beta now.

Brisco County
The Shadow Plague
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.08.16 04:51:00 - [21]
 

I used Torchlight as a sleep aid (no joke).

WeirdNoise
Caldari
tagueuletoi
Posted - 2011.08.17 09:22:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: WeirdNoise on 17/08/2011 09:36:33

Originally by: Sader Rykane


You can insert nearly every Diablo class into that statement and its just as true.

Frenzy Barb: FRENZY. RUN SUPER FAST. FRENZY SOME MORE! Don't forget to hump a corpse for pots if you're feeling creative.

Sorc:

Teleport. Frozen Orb.Teleport. Frozen Orb.Teleport. Frozen Orb.Teleport. Frozen Orb. Oh boss. STATIC STATIC STATIC STATIC. Frozen orb.

Replace Frozen orb with firewall, or firewall with chain lightning depending on your spec.

Bowazaon: Multishot.Multishot.Multishot.Multishot.Multishot.Guided arrow.

Javazon: Lightning Javalin.Lightning Javalin.Lightning Javalin.Lightning Javalin.Lightning Javalin.Lightning Javalin. Jab.

Zealot: Zeal. Charge. Zeal Zeal Zeal.

Hammerdin: Grab enigma. Spam Teleport. Launch hammers. Rinse repeat forever!

Pretty much every character had something that they mass spammed and moved on.

In fact probably the only character that "maybe" was a little bit more complex was the Assasin.

Once again; not saying it wasn't fun. But there was hardly any depth in that game. Hell this character in Titan Quest already has twice the active skills that most good D2 characters would have or use.

None of these skills qualify when you're lvl 4 or 5 and facing Blood Raven at the level you're supposed to. That's part of her difficulty, you're NOT supposed to wait for your lvl 6 skills to face her.

And WTF was I reading in your previous post? Whirlwind as a counterargument? Isn't it lvl 30 ?

Now if you're claiming that the whole of D2 is easy for a whirlwind barb, I don't know, I never played one.
I know whirlwind used to be overpowered and I seem to remember it was nerfed because of it. I don't aim for those overpopular cookie cutter builds, sorry pal.
I also mentioned that Blood Raven is hard for range classes, implying the obvious that if you're able to tank her she doesn't pose much of a challenge.
And there you go whirlwinding like a brain challenged barb in my argument.

Note though that she does run around a lot and spawns minions so she has some defense against tanks.

But it's besides the point. Diablo 2 isn't made to be easy, if it is you're doing something wrong. There is a huge difficulty gap between Diablo and later action-rpg games. This is the point being made here and your irrelevant boasting is just childish. You're assuming I'm complaining about my having a hard time playing the game? Have you read my post or just your ego tugging at yourself ?

I said I missed difficulty in games because in my time they were all super hard compared to nowadays. I only played Diablo from my late 20's onward so it doesn't even qualify but still it's a testimony to days gone by.

The games I used to play in my teens, as I said were designed for you not to be sure if you were even gonna be able to make it through the beginner phase.
That's what was rewarding. Compare this to today's games where even endgame poses no player-skill challenges and you get why old school gamers like me are disgusted at today's gaming market.

I'm not implying I'm a good gamer mind you, because I'm not. Even so, I enjoy difficulty. Just like although I'm not a pvper, I want my MMOs to have as cutthroat pvp mechanics as possible.



P.S. The point here is that Blizzard North (that is Diablo-Blizzard, very different from the later WoW-Blizzard) made a point of throwing the players, at very low level, into hardcore difficult bosses. In Diablo 1 it was the Butcher. What did this mean, what statement was this from the part of the game makers? Very easy to translate : you're not in a game for sissies here boy. You better stop right here if you think you're gonna make it through without a challenge.

When do you ever get such a challenge in modern games? I remember running all over the dungeon level of Diablo 1, looking for some cover in order to try and survive and kill him. When do I get such challenging fights today ? At endgame? Of which games ?

WeirdNoise
Caldari
tagueuletoi
Posted - 2011.08.17 09:44:00 - [23]
 

I might as well mention one of my games of reference when thinking about the topic of this thread, because it does qualify as an action RPG although it was released roughly ten years before Diablo : A Fairy Tale Adventure.
In that game of the 80's you had three lives, when your three toons (they were three brothers with slightly different stats, the first one being the strongest one and the third one the weakest one), when they were all dead you had to start the whole game anew.
Strangely, the beginner phase was were the difficulty of the game was at : once you made it to midgame you had little risk of dying. It was very smartly done.

Such games are classics and much could be learned from them by todays gamers and developers.
Part of the failure of today's gaming market to entertain me as it used to is due, I believe, to its developers having been raised in already over-easy games. They just dont know. They never played hard games, they don't have the attention span, they wouldnt enjoy having to die repeatedly or even start the whole game again.

This is especially relevant to discuss this on an EVE forum as EVE is obviously one of the MMOs in which the possible losses are greatest. And that makes it funnier than most, just because you can lose that much.


 

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