open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked CSM Leader Mittani not having a clue
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 ... : last (16)

Author Topic

Goddess Ishtar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:31:00 - [151]
 

Look at all dese pubbies dancing to Mittens' tune.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:32:00 - [152]
 

Y'all oughta accept that anybody who can get elected in any position is automatically smarter than you and has authority over you. It's the wonders of democracy that improve our lives in every aspect.




Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:32:00 - [153]
 

Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 11/08/2011 01:34:15
Originally by: Goddess Ishtar
Look at all dese pubbies dancing to Mittens' tune.

You should be aware,using S.A. shorthand off the board doesn't make you look cool...Laughing

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes

Bots work 23.5/7, belts can be upgraded in Sov space (not in wh's), so I would think more is made from 0.0.


The industrial upgrades don't upgrade belts, they provide mining sites which have to be probed down.


Ahhh, my bad, thought it was to belts as well... How often/quickly will the sites respawn after they're used? And how many 0.0 alliances work the industrial upgrades? Just curious here now.

Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:32:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Here is an example of someone who would be upset by the lack of ABC in C1's to C3's.


I am absolutely certain you have absolutely no experience with or knowledge of the logistics of mining in C1-3s. I would wager the considerable fortune I have amassed by doing things more profitable and productive than the time I spent mining ABC in C1-3s on it.


Then you won't be impacted when they are removed!

See? When we work on it, it works.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:36:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Here is an example of someone who would be upset by the lack of ABC in C1's to C3's.


I am absolutely certain you have absolutely no experience with or knowledge of the logistics of mining in C1-3s. I would wager the considerable fortune I have amassed by doing things more profitable and productive than the time I spent mining ABC in C1-3s on it.


Then you won't be impacted when they are removed!


He said "profitable" not useful. Nice try though...ugh

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:37:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Then you won't be impacted when they are removed!

See? When we work on it, it works.


But I will eventually be impacted by the tendency of uninformed idiots to make stupid decisions because they don't understand the logistics and realities of the mechanics which they are attempting to change.

Fortunately, CCP aren't going to change ABC in wormholes any time soon.

Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:39:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Fortunately, CCP aren't going to change ABC in wormholes any time soon.


I'd imagine it will be part of the 0.0 revamp. If people had a reason to mine in 0.0, they might actually do it. Laughing

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:49:00 - [158]
 

Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 11/08/2011 01:49:12
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas on 11/08/2011 01:09:40
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
If 0.0 mining is so much more prevalent than WH mining, why do people who want to buy supercaps get their minerals from Jita 4-4? (Drone regions excluded of course).


Maybe you should talk to the miners and logistics specialists in your alliance and find out.


I don't need to because I already know the answer: With the influx of cheap ABC from wormholes, it's more efficient to run plexes or anomalies and then use that isk to buy compressed minerals from empire than it is to mine it locally. We don't have, need or want mining ops because the cheap minerals are being mined by people who enjoy that particular brand of masochism.

Addendum: If you're looking for evidence that ****loads of people mine ABC in the lower class wormholes than you need go no further than this thread. The people shouting the loudest about 0.0 mining bots are the ones who are mining the ABC in C1 to C3's.



Uh, no. On all of that. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, on anything.

Let me go back to your first question. You know why the minerals are all in Jita? Because miners bring them there, from all over. Same reason absolutely everything is in Jita, and most manufacturing is in highsec. There was a guy in your alliance who had something to say about that, matter of fact:

http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/25/live-blog-0-0-roundtable-live-now/

Quote:
13:31
On to another topic: Industry.
Goon: “Why is it that if we use every manufacturing slot in Deklein we can only produce enough ammo to keep a Maelstrom fleet firing for six minutes?”
Mittani, genuinely horrified: “Are we really THAT ****ed for ammo?!”



Wormhole mining is a pittance, and the idea of some massive wormhole bot network destroying the economy is ridiculous. I get spouting crap because your leader said so, but you aren't dumb enough to actually believe this, are you?

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:49:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
I don't need to [research the issue] because I already know the answer: With the influx of cheap ABC from wormholes, it's more efficient to run plexes or anomalies and then use that isk to buy compressed minerals from empire than it is to mine it locally. We don't have, need or want mining ops because the cheap minerals are being mined by people who enjoy that particular brand of masochism.


There is a huge difference between "mined ABC in a wormhole" and "sold ABC in Jita".

Mining ABC in unknown space is an activity of last resort. It is far more profitable to run sleeper sites when they are available. This is partly due to the value of sleeper components, partly due to the pathetic quality of POS refineries: put your ore in, get the minerals out hours later, with 75% efficiency as an absolute limit regardless of skills and hardwirings.

As to why more ABC isn't mined in null sec, perhaps the issue is null sec alliances who insist on kill quotas, response to CTAs, the refusal to install industrial upgrades, and the general attitude of miners being "care bears" who are below being spat upon?

There are contributing factors such as the issue of the poor quality refineries, lack of access to refineries in the first place, lack of manufacturing slots, and general lack of industrial infrastructure in the first place. But folks in w-space manage to run T3 manufacturing industries from POSes, the only advantages that they have are no alliance hierarchy and no hot-drops.

You still get blobs in w-space, the only security you have is that the blob takes a while to assemble. The invaders have to probe down new wormholes to enter your space through. Having a 30-strong battleship fleet attacking your POS is not unheard of in w-space, even though the static holes connecting your system only allow a few through at a time.

The people living in unknown space have far more drive to succeed than the wet blankets making up most of the population of null sec. The way to increase the industrial base in null sec is to make nullsec just as hard to live in as w-space.

Make logistics harder: remove the advantages of hauling stuff from jita over buying stuff locally. Improve the profits for the local manufacturers by improving null sec infrastructure and nerfing null sec logistics. The jump bridge adjustment should help to some degree, but null sec industrialists need facilities that make mining and manufacturing in null sec at least competitive with mining and manufacturing in hisec.

You do need to research the issue. Talk to your industrialists and ask them why null sec is such an awful place for an industrialist to live. Many of the issues industrialists have with null sec are caused by the people playing the null sec game.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:50:00 - [160]
 

Again, you indicate that you simply don't understand why people mine in wormholes. The vast majority of people who mine in wormholes are not going to suddenly start mining in 0.0 if you take their ABC minerals away. They're simply going to stop mining. This will further reduce the capacity of smaller organisations to obtain high-end minerals and benefit only the larger organisations.

Wormholes cannot and do not produce high-end minerals in bulk. The standard belt in a C3 wormhole produces roughly enough minerals to construct a couple of Megathrons if you mine the entire thing and your blueprint has high ME, but because the ore usually has a much higher market value than the minerals it refines to, it's usually more cost-effective to just export it.

Goobai Vapor
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:50:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Fortunately, CCP aren't going to change ABC in wormholes any time soon.


I'd imagine it will be part of the 0.0 revamp. If people had a reason to mine in 0.0, they might actually do it. Laughing


Oh, look at the darling troll - If anything, ABCs belong in Wormholes. Not your precious 0.0 Napfest. At least, in wormholes, people have to work to be able to mine them.

Maybe you should try it. Or is that just too much :effort:?

P.S. - Keep SA Shorthand on SA. You're not special because you paid your :tenbux:. Rolling Eyes

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:52:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Goddess Ishtar
Look at all dese pubbies dancing to Mittens' tune.


Hilariously, first the idea was to call all those complaining about Mittani's bone-headedness on this matter "carebears," but soon the manifest idiocy of calling people who live in wormholes 'carebears' ran its natural course. So the tried and true "pubbie" thing came back. You realize most people in your alliance say that ironically, right? Please, some better trolls.

Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:02:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: Goobai Vapor

Oh, look at the darling troll - If anything, ABCs belong in Wormholes. Not your precious 0.0 Napfest. At least, in wormholes, people have to work to be able to mine them.


But that's the thing: When you are buying minerals for a titan it's actually a lot cheaper to buy the minerals in empire, compress them and jump freighter them to the build site than it is to buy them locally. [Unless you have 100% tax mandatory corp mining ops or live in the drone regions.]

If we assume that most of the minerals in the drone regions go into Russian supercaps (which is not unreasonable with angry russians quadboxing titans), then this massive influx of minerals must be coming from somewhere besides 0.0 and since there's only one other location in the game where you get ABC minerals, we probably don't need to get Sherlock Holmes in to solve this one.


Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:08:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
They're simply going to stop mining.



That's the point.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:09:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
But that's the thing: When you are buying minerals for a titan it's actually a lot cheaper to buy the minerals in empire, compress them and jump freighter them to the build site than it is to buy them locally.


Because everything is cheaper in Jita. To sell anything there, you have to sell at a competitive price. In the outer regions there are simply far fewer vendors, ergo far less competition, ergo far less incentive to keep prices low. This is basic market forces stuff, and if you don't understand it, you really shouldn't be playing EVE.

****, if you don't understand the Jita Principle, you probably have trouble breathing through your nose.

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
If we assume that most of the minerals in the drone regions go into Russian supercaps (which is not unreasonable with angry russians quadboxing titans), then this massive influx of minerals must be coming from somewhere besides 0.0 and since there's only one other location in the game where you get ABC minerals, we probably don't need to get Sherlock Holmes in to solve this one.


This is the most bizarre piece of moon logic I've ever seen. I am literally incapable of believing you honestly believe this. Do you have the slightest bit of material evidence to back this up?

Goobai Vapor
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:12:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Originally by: Goobai Vapor

Oh, look at the darling troll - If anything, ABCs belong in Wormholes. Not your precious 0.0 Napfest. At least, in wormholes, people have to work to be able to mine them.


But that's the thing: When you are buying minerals for a titan it's actually a lot cheaper to buy the minerals in empire, compress them and jump freighter them to the build site than it is to buy them locally. [Unless you have 100% tax mandatory corp mining ops or live in the drone regions.]

If we assume that most of the minerals in the drone regions go into Russian supercaps (which is not unreasonable with angry russians quadboxing titans), then this massive influx of minerals must be coming from somewhere besides 0.0 and since there's only one other location in the game where you get ABC minerals, we probably don't need to get Sherlock Holmes in to solve this one.




So, the solution is obviously to make wormholes less valuable altogether - even though it can be argued that it's much more hostile space than "Deep Blue" Null.

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that EVE was a free market universe. Wormholers are filling a void left open by the current view of "Industry Sucks" in Null.

When they remove local from 0.0 and leave you to mine blind, you can say that it's logical to remove ABCs from W-Space.
Might as well strip out your ability to use jumpbridges, titanbridges, jumpfreighters, and any other logistical advantages that wormhole pilots on a whole do not hold.

Income is coming from W-Space? Holy crap, nerf it!

Oh, those Tech Moons that are worth billions of ISK and held by a select few alliances? Those are balanced.

Hroya
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:14:00 - [167]
 

Greed is good isnt it ?

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:14:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Originally by: Goobai Vapor

Oh, look at the darling troll - If anything, ABCs belong in Wormholes. Not your precious 0.0 Napfest. At least, in wormholes, people have to work to be able to mine them.


But that's the thing: When you are buying minerals for a titan it's actually a lot cheaper to buy the minerals in empire, compress them and jump freighter them to the build site than it is to buy them locally. [Unless you have 100% tax mandatory corp mining ops or live in the drone regions.]

If we assume that most of the minerals in the drone regions go into Russian supercaps (which is not unreasonable with angry russians quadboxing titans), then this massive influx of minerals must be coming from somewhere besides 0.0 and since there's only one other location in the game where you get ABC minerals, we probably don't need to get Sherlock Holmes in to solve this one.




Why do you keep assuming nullsec miners do not sell their goods in Jita? Do you think the logistics line from Jita to nullsec only goes one way?

Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:15:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney

Quote:
13:31
On to another topic: Industry.
Goon: “Why is it that if we use every manufacturing slot in Deklein we can only produce enough ammo to keep a Maelstrom fleet firing for six minutes?”
Mittani, genuinely horrified: “Are we really THAT ****ed for ammo?!”



Wormhole mining is a pittance, and the idea of some massive wormhole bot network destroying the economy is ridiculous. I get spouting crap because your leader said so, but you aren't dumb enough to actually believe this, are you?


That question about ammo had nothing to do with mineral supply and everything to do with manufacturing capacity, so we'll call it a swing and a miss.

As for the 'bot network' theory, no one is suggesting that people bot hulks in wormholes. But if you're a single lonely miner, and you have the choice of mining whatever you can find in 0.5 or mining ABC in a C1 which are you going to choose? Just remember to spam the dscanner every 30 seconds and she'll be right.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:17:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
As for the 'bot network' theory, no one is suggesting that people bot hulks in wormholes. But if you're a single lonely miner, and you have the choice of mining whatever you can find in 0.5 or mining ABC in a C1 which are you going to choose? Just remember to spam the dscanner every 30 seconds and she'll be right.


THIS. NEVER. HAPPENS.

Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:17:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Goobai Vapor
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Originally by: Goobai Vapor

Oh, look at the darling troll - If anything, ABCs belong in Wormholes. Not your precious 0.0 Napfest. At least, in wormholes, people have to work to be able to mine them.


But that's the thing: When you are buying minerals for a titan it's actually a lot cheaper to buy the minerals in empire, compress them and jump freighter them to the build site than it is to buy them locally. [Unless you have 100% tax mandatory corp mining ops or live in the drone regions.]

If we assume that most of the minerals in the drone regions go into Russian supercaps (which is not unreasonable with angry russians quadboxing titans), then this massive influx of minerals must be coming from somewhere besides 0.0 and since there's only one other location in the game where you get ABC minerals, we probably don't need to get Sherlock Holmes in to solve this one.




So, the solution is obviously to make wormholes less valuable altogether - even though it can be argued that it's much more hostile space than "Deep Blue" Null.

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that EVE was a free market universe. Wormholers are filling a void left open by the current view of "Industry Sucks" in Null.

When they remove local from 0.0 and leave you to mine blind, you can say that it's logical to remove ABCs from W-Space.
Might as well strip out your ability to use jumpbridges, titanbridges, jumpfreighters, and any other logistical advantages that wormhole pilots on a whole do not hold.

Income is coming from W-Space? Holy crap, nerf it!

Oh, those Tech Moons that are worth billions of ISK and held by a select few alliances? Those are balanced.


Ok, so you've just admitted that people are mining ABC in wormholes for profit. That's great, I just wanted one of you to admit it in front of the studio audience.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:19:00 - [172]
 

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas

As for the 'bot network' theory, no one is suggesting that people bot hulks in wormholes. But if you're a single lonely miner, and you have the choice of mining whatever you can find in 0.5 or mining ABC in a C1 which are you going to choose? Just remember to spam the dscanner every 30 seconds and she'll be right.


1) I said "everything is in Jita" and that quote bears me out. Highsec is more convenient for production, selling, buying, the works. That is why nullsec people sell and buy in Jita. And that is why your "why are the minerals in Jita - it must be wormhole mining" question/answer is so strange.

2) If you think the average highsec miner is willing to jump into a wormhole to mine, you have clearly not encountered the average highsec denizen. And if you think the wormholes that are accessible by highsec are anything resembling safe, I don't even know. . .

You pretty clearly have not encountered much of highsec, wormholes, the works. And yet you seem incredibly sure of yourself on these topics.

Rhes
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:20:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Hilariously, first the idea was to call all those complaining about Mittani's bone-headedness on this matter "carebears," but soon the manifest idiocy of calling people who live in wormholes 'carebears' ran its natural course. So the tried and true "pubbie" thing came back. You realize most people in your alliance say that ironically, right? Please, some better trolls.

This is what a pubbie would say.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:22:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Rhes
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Hilariously, first the idea was to call all those complaining about Mittani's bone-headedness on this matter "carebears," but soon the manifest idiocy of calling people who live in wormholes 'carebears' ran its natural course. So the tried and true "pubbie" thing came back. You realize most people in your alliance say that ironically, right? Please, some better trolls.

This is what a pubbie would say.


Hilariously, ****posting is frowned on on SA. But members of the "SA" alliance do little but. Why, it's almost as if they're a bunch of j4gs. . .pubbies. But that would be silly. . .

Candy Oshea
Amarr
Techfree Investment Group
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:24:00 - [175]
 

My main+alt lives in a WH. we get Mining sites about once every 2 weeks.

Even though My main+alt is a near max skilled hulk pilots, I haven't started any mining OP's inside simply because of the logistics. We have a Refinery array anchored, but its for the lessor skilled corp members to use, its laborious to use 200,000m3 max & only one type of ore per cycle.

Hauling ore's out to highsec is just as bad, by the time you have hauled all the ABC's out, refined them, hauled them back in for production or dump to highest price on open market, its prolly only worth the same income level of L4's in an Isk/hour point of view.

TL:DR mining in WH is not worth my time, & i could care less if it's there or not. ugh

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:32:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
That question about ammo had nothing to do with mineral supply and everything to do with manufacturing capacity, so we'll call it a swing and a miss.

As for the 'bot network' theory, no one is suggesting that people bot hulks in wormholes. But if you're a single lonely miner, and you have the choice of mining whatever you can find in 0.5 or mining ABC in a C1 which are you going to choose? Just remember to spam the dscanner every 30 seconds and she'll be right.


Please, go mine in a WH and *only* ping your d-scanner every 30 seconds... YARRRR!! WE LOVE PEOPLE LIKE THAT.

Your still forgetting the logistics - low level wh's have **** mass limits... vOv

We don't have any numbers from CCP, so we don't know where it's going, who's using it or whatever...

So we should all sit back and take it for granted that CCP can come to the correct...

WAIT A MINUTE! Laughing

CCP! NUMBERS PLSTHNX!

Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:35:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Candy Oshea
i could care less


This one is for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

Hroya
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:35:00 - [178]
 

Clearly there is to much interaction between empire and null sec.



Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:40:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Hroya
Clearly there is to much interaction between empire and null sec.




That's why they needs SUPER-VELD! more isolation is *good* for eve...

D'ceet
Posted - 2011.08.11 03:01:00 - [180]
 

As I look through this thread, I see something more troubling to me than the whole "wormholes are overpowered" or ABC ores are not a issue...

I see a lack of monocles...And that, is the saddest part of this thread...


Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 ... : last (16)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only