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NeoShocker
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.08.17 03:41:00 - [451]
 

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: NeoShocker
Sorry my peasant, but I absolutely agree with the CSM chairman and CCP's decisions.

Peasent?

How droll...

Would your agreement with CCP include the anom nerf and the Jump-bridge nerf?

Just wonderin'.


Well. I welcome the JB nerf, but i am impartial about anom nerf. Not really sure what i think about the anom even tho i did alot of them before the nerf

Dark Harden
Posted - 2011.08.17 04:55:00 - [452]
 

Edited by: Dark Harden on 17/08/2011 05:09:00
Can I ask: Why does the CSM/CCP want people to move from W-space to 0.0?

An exhaustive answer would be nice. Thank you.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.17 05:42:00 - [453]
 

Originally by: Mr Hellcat
Edited by: Mr Hellcat on 13/08/2011 13:57:42
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Mr Hellcat
I bolded the two sentences that are in conflict with one another. <<snippage>>

#1 - taken in context the quoted portion of Meissa's statement doesn't equal anything in conflict. Your just fishing for something to ***** about and apparently deliberately misreading what *was* written.
#2 - "Representing the player base as a whole" does not = "agreeing with everybody", or even *anyone*!
#3 - calls for Meissa to step down are functionally the same as shooting yourself in the foot because you don't like your shoes....Rolling Eyes



Don't tell me "wife aggro" again?

Nothng was quoted out of context. When someone opens with I'll nerf any part of the game for the betterment of the whole, and finishes with you think I be stupid enough to nerf something I or my corpmates are doing, that is a conflict in itself as well as self-serving.

I never said that representing the playbase as a whole was agreeing with everyone. Also by nature representing the playerbase as a whole means you would be agreeing with someone.

While I don't think that was Meissa's intent, as to why I asked for clarification, I also have the rights to express how I feel if such intent was true. Therefore asking someone to step down because their actions don't match what they say or have their owns self interests over the playerbase they represent is within my rights. How that compares to not liking shoes and shooting my own foot is by far a stupid comparison.

I believe you are "fishing for something to ***** about and apparently deliberately misreading what *was* written."

Wife aggro sucks. Wouldn't believe how hard I have to fight just to get a little forum pvp in...Laughing


Meissa's point (which you've seemed to miss entirely) was her corp does xyz activity, why would she *needlessly* nerf it? That was what I got from her post.

Your post made it seem as if disagreeing with you was a *mistake* on meissa's part.

No one said you couldn't "express how you feel". However, since the only CSM's that I know that have been removed from the CSM have been removed for cause, and Meissa hasn't given cause, then yes, your call for Meissa to step down is as stupid as shooting oneself in the foot to spite your shoes.


Originally by: Dark Harden
Edited by: Dark Harden on 17/08/2011 05:09:00
Can I ask: Why does the CSM/CCP want people to move from W-space to 0.0?

An exhaustive answer would be nice. Thank you.


That wasn't the intent (although with the recent dev-blogs, some are reading that into the announcement).

Again, without the data that the CSM reported one Dev has told them about (but they haven't seen yet) any nerf to ABC ores in WH's is pure speculation.

You can take your tinfoil hats off now...

(not you Lady Scarlet - it's cute on you...Laughing )

Dark Harden
Posted - 2011.08.17 06:04:00 - [454]
 

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
That wasn't the intent (although with the recent dev-blogs, some are reading that into the announcement).


I ask because earlier in this mammoth thread the CSM guy/girl was asking people why they don't want to move from w-space to null (suggesting in the subtext that it's because w-space is safe, to support his arguments - fair enough). Of course, the subtext of his/her question is a desire for people to move from w-space to null.

Why?

Michael1995
Posted - 2011.08.17 06:34:00 - [455]
 

Edited by: Michael1995 on 17/08/2011 06:51:39
Quote:
I think its dumb that you can have some guy in a hulk from Jita pop in with relatively low risk into a C1 whatever and get ABC...


That's funny, because you can't actually take a hulk into a Class 1 without taking it in packaged in a hauler, then assembling it at a tower...

Edit: And 2 jumps from jita would attract more pvpers and hunters after said hulk :)

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.08.17 09:05:00 - [456]
 

Edited by: Ciar Meara on 17/08/2011 09:10:51
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

* WH space does not need intel channels, it's unconnected to other space.
* shifting exits prevent hostiles from finding you easily, thereby providing you with *MORE* security.
* harder logistics, not really, if you get a WH with a static highsec exit, the distance to trade hub is substantially less than in most of 0.0.
* refineries are a problem, but Rorqual compression makes that problem go away. (Edit: initially typo'ed Orca instead of Rorq)



You clearly consider moving a rorqual (and thus a pos, and thus modules and fuel) into a wormhole an easy and risk free operation. Especially given the fact that you don't know what is with you in system (are we still talking about ninja abc mining in C1-C4?

While it is true that sometimes wormholes open close to hubs or safish territory they also open to other wormholes and 0.0 space (if you go in higher class ones).

People aren't nice in systems where there is no security and no warning that they are outthere except a directional scanner. They mostly just kill you and take your stuff.

Anyone who has the organisation and planning to do a mining operation like you discribed should get his reward (isk). For the risk he puts forward. you also need to remember that mining isn't done with the high yield ships and miners people run around in in supersafe 0.0 dead end systems deep inside friendly territory. Its done with cheaper system and certainly not with rorquals. (unless you plan to stay inside the WH) Which is in itself another logistical headache. Wormholes are the only way out of wormhole space.

Every time you take your capitals in or out you are basicly hanging them on a gate with low sec space on the other side. (I think we can all agree that in normal space that would be considered high risk?)

Merasa Tro
Posted - 2011.08.17 10:13:00 - [457]
 

Edited by: Merasa Tro on 17/08/2011 10:13:48
Think he missed his own answer. The quote is like this " and we think that its important to make mining a valuable uh profession again particularly with high end ores because their prices crash. I started out mining as a newbie in Syndicate uh getting Crokite and we would all have big mining ops together. Nobody bothers with it anymore except for bots because the prices crash so much."
Rather than restricting ores to botting areas. Why not remove the bots? uh
Remove bots - supply drops
Supply drops - price increases
Price increases - Reward for mining
Reward for mining - More miners everywhere.

So the last sentance should probably read. "Because of bots the price crashed so much, now nobody else bothers"

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.08.17 10:52:00 - [458]
 

Do people actually mine ore in W-space? Surely farming sleepers is massively more profitable?

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:15:00 - [459]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Do people actually mine ore in W-space? Surely farming sleepers is massively more profitable?


Not everyone is a min-maxer. Yes, people mine in wormholes.

Sometimes I do it just to risk a billion ISK.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:28:00 - [460]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Do people actually mine ore in W-space? Surely farming sleepers is massively more profitable?


On those rare occassions we have gravs spawn (been a few weeks now... sigh...) we'll mine the crap out of them to suppliment our industry. When the hole's quiet and there's no desire to roll the static, mining is a good way to gather some needed resources as well as keep you alert waiting for the shirt (now available at NeX!) to hit the fan.

If these mythical "day-trippers" actually existed, we'd probably consider using gravs as bait for mining vessels from high/low. However, they're nothing more than a myth perpetuated to create a false crisis regarding wormhole ores.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:25:00 - [461]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Do people actually mine ore in W-space? Surely farming sleepers is massively more profitable?


My corp mines (when we get grav sites) the things we need for whatever reactions we're doing, and the PI reactions, etc. Mainly for POS fuel.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:39:00 - [462]
 

Quite why null sec needs more minerals to construct even more super capitals is beyond me.

C.


Billy Merc
Viziam
Posted - 2011.08.17 17:51:00 - [463]
 


Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:05:00 - [464]
 

There appears to be good news on the front for wormholes... according to CCP Greyscale:

Quote:
Yeah, one of the potential options I'm considering right now (another is "do nothing") is to just change the makeup of WH grav sites so that they give you all the mineral types in approximately the right ratios. If you're building it means you can strip a site and have everything you need, while if you're just mining to export it's going to significantly slow the overall rate of mining due to people (presumably, based on previous player behavior and feedback) not clearing the low-ends, so the sites won't despawn quickly.


In other words, we may find in the future we have less of what we may have too much of and more of what we actually need and don't have enough of. It also seems that the cry of removing ABC from holes has indeed been dismissed as completely stupid and not actually in the best interests of the game. Time will tell, but I'll turn down the panic a few notches for the time being.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.08.17 19:06:00 - [465]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
There appears to be good news on the front for wormholes... according to CCP Greyscale:

Quote:
Yeah, one of the potential options I'm considering right now (another is "do nothing") is to just change the makeup of WH grav sites so that they give you all the mineral types in approximately the right ratios. If you're building it means you can strip a site and have everything you need, while if you're just mining to export it's going to significantly slow the overall rate of mining due to people (presumably, based on previous player behavior and feedback) not clearing the low-ends, so the sites won't despawn quickly.


In other words, we may find in the future we have less of what we may have too much of and more of what we actually need and don't have enough of. It also seems that the cry of removing ABC from holes has indeed been dismissed as completely stupid and not actually in the best interests of the game. Time will tell, but I'll turn down the panic a few notches for the time being.


Sorry sir, but I have to call troll. CCP actually seeing sense and making the obviously correct decision? Unpossible.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.17 19:20:00 - [466]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris

Sorry sir, but I have to call troll. CCP actually seeing sense and making the obviously correct decision? Unpossible.


My fault, I should have linked the post.

Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2011.08.20 00:44:00 - [467]
 

Edited by: Killer Gandry on 20/08/2011 14:59:53
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
One of the things about moongoo is that while they benefit the alliances themselves, they don't benefit the individual. So if an alliance possesses lots of moons, it may itself be rich but its members poor. The opposite is true of wormholes. And in my opinion that's the preferable way..


There is NO moongoo in wormhole space so why even bother bringing useless crap up? The mining of ABC's in WH space and then having logistics setup to get it out of their is of a whole other order than bringing high ends out of null sec.
Aslong as you don't understand the differences you can't really talk or judge about it.

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel


I'll repeat myself, if it comes alone I would actually oppose the nerfing of ABC in WHs. If it comes as part of a nicely rebuild of 0.0 industry, then I'll be in favour of it. Simple enough. Now I want to make sure the package is designed such that it meets the needs of the industrialists.




Let's see. In WH space you can't blob unless you build most of the ships in there in a PoS which has a crap refine. So you really worked your arse off for those ships.
No station, no claiming of space so no chance to build SC's, no local, no moongoo. Yes I see why WH space needs to be nerfed because it's a place where teh null sec bears don't wanna live cause it's way too dangerous and impossible to blob in.
Chase them WH dwellers out so you make yet another part of EVE even more unpleasant so they jump into your side of the sandbox.

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

If you think the design of the game does not influence people behavior, you are sadly mistaken.?



Ofcourse people's behaviour is influenced by game design. This also brings in even more frustration because the socalled creme de la creme wants other people's game nerfed because they start to feel lonely.
Do you really think that this kind of manipulation of players direction ingame is something everyone just accepts like the rest of the null sec lemmings that follow a few loudmouths?


Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

Imagine a hypothetical situation where there are no jump freighters, no jumpships, and no carriers. And the only way to get a battleship from highsec to 0.0 would be to flying gate by gate. In this highly hypothetical situation, making stuff locally would be very very necessary and alliances would try and get industrialists locally and they wouldn't be treated like second class citizens because they would provide something the alliance needs and wants.

What I'm talking about is the same, though more subtly than this. Behavior is influenced by game design.


Guess what, back when I started we didn't have jump freighters or any other kind of jumpships. No cap ships, no jumpbridges.
You have to fly your stuff in or buy at higher prices because there were only a few rare builders who would build in null sec.
Industrialists in null sec would be scorned because they price their goods a lot over Jita marker because the risk etc to get the minerals in is higher and that affects buildprice.
Then you get the balance of demand and what is at hand which drives up prices more. You know how human greed works.

So basicly you keep on proving you have absolutley no clue and better join Mittens coral of sheep.



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