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Aesiron
Amarr
Deep Excavation
Army of Dark Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:00:00 - [1]
 

Hi. A while back I brought a Prophecy for level 2/3 missions but I found it to be a very small milestone from my Omen, in fact, my Omen being faster and generally better IMO. I am still running level 2s but once I reach level 3s I will turn to BCs, so I was wondering: Should I sell my Prophecy and get a Harbinger for level 3 mission running?

Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:14:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Aesiron
Should I sell my Prophecy and get a Harbinger for level 3 mission running?


Yes.

You will find as your skills and experience increase, the prophecy will get worse whilst the harbinger gets even better.

Nero Maxvell
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:43:00 - [3]
 

Yeah, harby all the way Smile

Fit should be in the direction of
Lows
3x mission spec hardeners
1x med repper
2x heat sinks

Mids
afterburner
cap rechargers

High
7x Heavy pulse laser

Rigs to taste (i used 2x aux nano pumps and 1 x CCC)

Nai Weil
Caldari
M. Corp
M. PIRE
Posted - 2011.08.10 16:37:00 - [4]
 

The Prophecy is one of those rare battlecruiser instances where it loses to the tier-2 battlecruiser (Harbinger) in every department, and cost aside (and looks) there's no reason to fly it other than a Harbinger in level 3 missions. The other three races' tier 1 battlecruisers, while inferior to the tier 2s, at least have some different kind of niche and function.

With enough skilling up you could make it a decent mission runner (and it can handle level 3 missions - it's a decent enough and sturdy thing) but a Harbinger would still outperform it in every way. I did my level 3s in a Prophecy because I didn't like the flying crucifix hull shape, but I did it knowing I was gimping my missionrunning rather than doing the best I could. It was more than adequate, but nowhere near optimal. Even in terms of tanking, where the Prophecy is supposed to have its niche, is offset by the fact the Harbinger has more armour HP.

Ines Tegator
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:15:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Ines Tegator on 10/08/2011 17:15:29
It's possible to make a prophecy fit not suck, but as mentioned it will still lose to the harby. It takes insane fitting skills to fit a proph decently because it's fitting space is so low, and even with it's tanking bonus it's easier to tank a harby and still get better DPS on top of it.

Lili Lu
Posted - 2011.08.10 19:12:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Lili Lu on 10/08/2011 19:20:37
Edited by: Lili Lu on 10/08/2011 19:14:48
No, you do not need to sell your prophecy. Buy the Harby? Yes! It is a better level 3 boat against blood raider and sansha mission rats. However, the prophecy has it's use as a level 3 mission boat against angels and guristas because of it's resist bonus.

What you do is train projectiles and then fit the Proph with 650 arty against guristas and 425 ac against angels. Also train heavy missiles for the last high slot. You lose nothing fitting a prophecy with projectiles because you only get the cap use reduction bonus on it. Projectile ammo will allow you to find appropriate damage against these rats, while no cap use will allow you to perma run a MAR II and afterburner for tanking. As long as you buy good meta level projectile guns, fit a gyrostab, and use appropriate ammo, you will do better than lasers.

edit- it is not the best option against these rats, but imo it is better than getting frustrated with the gurista and angel resistances to laser damage. For the long term you should train a second race of ships. This provides pve and pvp options as well as providing some nerf proofing.

2nd edit- the omen is ****. i don't know how you have come to like that ship. You would probably do better to rig up a passive shield arbitrator for level 3s than you will do in an omen against guristas and angels. again though the long term solution is to train a second race of ships.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2011.08.10 20:49:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Nai Weil
I did my level 3s in a Prophecy because I didn't like the flying crucifix hull shape, but I did it knowing I was gimping my missionrunning rather than doing the best I could.


Glad to see I'm not the only one. Nomen and even Phantasm are also reasonable alternatives. In the end the Harbi really does win on L3s though. Unless you want to train for an Absolution, but that seems more than a little ridiculous for these purposes.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.11 13:36:00 - [8]
 

Since it hasn't been mentioned, I'd like to throw out the Omen Navy Issue as an interesting option.

Leppa Avato
Posted - 2011.08.12 09:59:00 - [9]
 

Seeing the missions he's running i don't think any navy issue is an option here :)

Max Nebular
Posted - 2011.08.12 15:17:00 - [10]
 

ive done all my lvl 3 missions in the Omen and later i upgradet to the Navy issue and i must say its a fantastic ship!, holds drones and is fast and sexy...

HIs:

5 x HEAVY MODULATED PULSE ENERGY BEAM I (multi/standard/radio)
1 SALVAGER/MINING LASER/TRACKTOR BEAM for special missions...

MIDs:

AB II
WEB
CR II

LOWs:
DC II
SMALL REPPER II
3 EANM II (could use two specific resists and throw in an extra heat sink) on many missions
2 HEAT SINKs II

RIGS:
2 x CCCs

DRONES:
5 x WARRIORS

every thing runs forever with multis, and as you can see theres even room for improvement - T2 guns, T2 drones, another CCC rig to free up a med slot, and they could be t2.

in some missions you can use a PLATE if its too stressfull or you could use a MEDIUM REPPER II (but i think its too slow)

read about a guy who did lvl 4s in this baby...

chears!

Kurfin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.08.12 21:59:00 - [11]
 

I started my lvl 3s in a Prophecy, but that was only because I couldn't afford the Harby. It can do them, but the Harby is just so much better, and these days the price difference between them is so small, it would be a bit silly to use the Proph.

Tosser Galore
Posted - 2011.08.12 23:56:00 - [12]
 

One is tank, one is gank (with a full flight of hammerheads) You do the math. don't waste dps by fielding lights. Amarr ships have great synergy with drones use it. You should be able to deal with frigs close up (even elites) if you fly a harby with web.

Srlsy people Stop rp in your prophecy. Use it with AC? lol.. NO get a rupture or harby if you're going to crosstrain to minnie guns.
The prophecy is for bait, not an effecient MR.

You can run l4 in a Harby. Pretty easy if you skill it properly, wit t2 tank and guns, drones, in the meantime you're waiting to get in a BS.

Clintus McGintus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.13 05:26:00 - [13]
 

where does the absolution fall in here?

Kurfin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.08.13 09:55:00 - [14]
 

The Asbo is more skill intensive (IIRC you need command ships lvl5 before it will out damage the Harby) and it is very expensive by comparison to the Harby too. It has a lot more tank, but you don't really need it for level 3's. If you have the skills and the isk feel free to use it, but don't expect a massive improvement just running 3's.

NoNah
Posted - 2011.08.13 10:14:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Tosser Galore
You can run l4 in a Harby. Pretty easy if you skill it properly, wit t2 tank and guns, drones, in the meantime you're waiting to get in a BS.

Absolutely, and so can the prophecy with roughly the same inefficiency. BCs in level 4's is I dare say never a good idea.

If you want to pursue the road of harbingers for missions, you can progress rather long. A 700+ dps harbinger with decent projection and mobility will make short work of level 3's, and with some decent research make much better isk than an overly tanked level 4 harbinger can ever hope to achieve.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2011.08.13 15:58:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Zhilia Mann on 13/08/2011 15:58:27
Originally by: Kurfin
The Asbo is more skill intensive (IIRC you need command ships lvl5 before it will out damage the Harby) and it is very expensive by comparison to the Harby too. It has a lot more tank, but you don't really need it for level 3's. If you have the skills and the isk feel free to use it, but don't expect a massive improvement just running 3's.


Harbi has 8.75 effective turrets at BC 5. Abso has 9 effective turrets at CS 4, 10 at CS 5, so it does pass the Harbi at CS 4. But not by much. And no, there certainly won't be a massive improvement on L3s.

Edit: but it is one sexy looking ship, that's for sure.

Clintus McGintus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.14 16:45:00 - [17]
 

what about in a pvp situation? abso over the harby. I know the main reason to go with the harby is the price tag but im talking about performance.


 

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