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Ethan Pollard
Posted - 2011.08.10 06:40:00 - [1]
 

I'm a new player just six weeks old. I didn't join EVE for PVP. I'm just way to old for it. The game promised any style of play could be fun. I could explore space and do some nice relaxing mining. Well, after spending the last three weeks saving up isk and sp for my first mining barge i lost it to a suicide ganker in high sec space. The more I learn about EVE the more it seems like it is all about PVP and ganking noobs to make yourself feel powerful. I don't think there is any way for a low aggression player to have fun in this game. Especially if you haven't already spent thousands of hours online building up the resources to defend yourself.

Yes, I know, whining about being ganked is for losers and you need a thick skin to play EVE. That's just it. I don't know if I want to spend my time and hard earned money playing a game mostly dominated by internet trolls. I just wanted to pretend to be a space pilot for a while and not get caught up in endless aggression and reprisal. That's just not fun to me. I understand the appeal of testing your combat skills against real people and the thrill that comes with victory. That's what online FPS is for. This game was sold as some sort of simulated society where you could fill any niche you wanted. I guess I misunderstood.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.08.10 06:48:00 - [2]
 

Well... Then don't spend your time here.

Luckily nobody is forcing you.

Quote:
This game was sold as some sort of simulated society where you could fill any niche you wanted.


It is still sold as that. But that aspect is secondary. The primary aspect is that it is sold as a cold, heartless, cutthroat game. you have to be comfortable with the primary aspect before you can enjoy the secondary.

Ethan Pollard
Posted - 2011.08.10 07:03:00 - [3]
 

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. That's about the response I expected. I'm not saying people can't have a place to vent their aggression online. I just thought that online gaming would eventually evolve to have a broader appeal. I was wrong, lesson learned. I should just go back to single player gaming and leave the online stuff to "hardcore" and "edgy" gamers with the courage to take on a retriever with a battle cruiser. You guys have fun.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.08.10 07:28:00 - [4]
 

Point is, there is plenty of MMO games out there that let you do just the thing you are looking for. In fact some of them have gazzilions of players more than EvE has.

EvE is a niche market. You either love it, or you hate it with a passion. The vast majority hates it with a passion. Do not be surprised to be in that number.

Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.08.10 07:47:00 - [5]
 

The trick to eve society is you don't get given a place, and you don't have to earn it either. You have to take it from someone.

If you want a specific niche and can't get it, you need to do one of three things:

a) pick a different niche
b) kick someone in the face, make them cry and take their niche
c) go play a different game

I strongly recommend b). b) is pretty fun.

Equus Toomp
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.10 08:18:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Equus Toomp on 10/08/2011 08:19:25
EvE is a dangerous world. That's the long and the short of it.
However, i've been at this for several years now on and off and you can do things that vastly (if not totally) prevent you from getting whacked.
Mining barges tend to get ganked a lot just for lols, there's an unofficial "event" called hulkageddon that specialises in this.

Biggest thing is if when in high-sec and you are provoked (canflipped/stolen from/targetted) then DO NOT RESPOND. If they shoot at you they will get pwnd by Concord. The only time you are likley to get suicide ganked is if you are in an industrial or something VERY shiney and expensive with lots of expensive mods. Otherwise it's really not worth getting concorded over. Most are trying to get you to shoot first so they have kill rights. And even if you THINK you can fight back you should bear in mind they prolly have corp mates hiding close by who will make your job a bit harder. Very Happy

For this reason I strongly recommend you join a player corp. There's safety in numbers and you WILL learn at a greatly accelerated rate.

EMA (Evil Monkey asylum) is recruiting and are very newbie friendly. But check out the recruitment section of the forums too Wink

EvE is a fun game too and you certainly don't have to pvp to get enjoyment from it.

Don't give up mate!

Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.10 08:21:00 - [7]
 

Any Vet can tell you that the trick to doing what you want in Eve is thinking it through and coming up with a strategy to fufill your niche and that doesn't always require a kick in the face, it just requires educating yourself on the various aspects of the game including the politics and social order, but most importantly on the functions and strategies of PvPers, gankers, pirates etc...

Mining and industrial work can be very profitable and can be done even in low sec and null sec with relative safety if you learn the tricks of the trade. At six weeks I'm certain you are still making a lot of errors in judgement that ultimatly lead you to these situations.

One such mistake was working under the assumption that you are safe in high sec. That is a newbie mistake that you have now learned and hopefully will not repeat.

I used to run mining operations under the nose of pirates and alliances to their frustration very successfully. In fact the biggest advantage you have as a miner and industrial player is that PvP players in particular pirates and very specifically suicide gankers are so incredibly predictable it doesn't take a whole lot of player skill to evade them with ease. Their tactics are fairly limited, in particular suicide gankers. They are not hard to avoid at all, but you gotta learn.

Stick with it man... Think outside of the box and reckognize that as a newbie you don't know everything yet hence your losses are part of the learning experiance. Chalk that ship off as a lesson, don't take these losses personal and don't assume that gankers, pvpers and pirates are all a bunch of A holes. These guys are playing their game, your playing yours. You happen to be on oppossite sides today, tomorrow you might call them your alliance mates. This is an important lesson to learn in Eve because your reputation is a vital component in becoming part of its social order. Talk to the gankers, ask them about how their strategy works. You would be suprised how many people will talk to you, turn out to be cool and actually teach you. Most of everything I have learned about Eve I learned from people who I met in a fight.

PvP is a part of Eve, a big part, but its hardly the only thing. What you have to reckgonize here, which I agree with the above posters is that PvP is a part all players have to deal with and ultimatly have to participate in. You can't play Eve under the false impression that you can avoid PvP. Embrace it, make it part of the experiance, learn about it because by knowing how it works you can learn how to avoid it.

Good Luck!


Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:21:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ethan Pollard
I understand the appeal of testing your combat skills against real people and the thrill that comes with victory. That's what online FPS is for.


I'm glad you can tell us how we are supposed to play the game that's been out for 8 years and has a heavy focus on PVP. Surely the only games for competition and thrill of victory must be first person shooters.

If you don't like PVP, just find a different game. Everyone in this thread is trying to make playing Eve doable for you, but the truth is, if you do not like the PVP aspect, you will eventually find the rest unsatisfying as the game just isn't focussed on it.

Disastro
Wrecking Shots
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:34:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Ethan Pollard
I'm a new player just six weeks old. I didn't join EVE for PVP. I'm just way to old for it.


Hate to disagree with your first two sentences but I do. There is no one too old for pvp. My corp has a few players in their 40s and early 50s. We once had a lady who was in her 70s. She was very into pvp once she learned the basics. Age has absolutely nothing to do with it.

While I agree that Eve is primarily a game about PVP I do think that it is quite possible for someone to play this game without doing a lot of fighting. Obviously those living in high sec have the least need to pvp but there are certainly 0.0 and low sec guys who basically PVE or Mine or explore without doing a whole lot of fighting.

One thing you will discover, however, is that once you move to 0.0 you often have the fight thrust upon you. There are many other people out there who want to take away whatever it is that someone else has. And folks quickly discover the need to defend it from others.

Mallak Azaria
Three 6 MaFiA
KRYSIS.
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:04:00 - [10]
 


Akisa Damaar
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:57:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: foksieloy
Point is, there is plenty of MMO games out there that let you do just the thing you are looking for. ...

While there are a lot of more friendly MMOs in general on the market, there is no other space MMO with nearly the complexity of EVE. If there were then I would leave EVE in a heart beat.

I am stuck with EVE because I am really tired of elves & dwarves and mages & warriors. But that doesn't mean at all that I like the sociopathic nature of this game.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:09:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Akisa Damaar
But that doesn't mean at all that I like the sociopathic nature of this game.


Alas, you are mistaken. EvE is not sociopathic. If it were, I would have never met so many great people and chatted with them. While blowing them up, or being blown up.

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:40:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Akisa Damaar
Originally by: foksieloy
Point is, there is plenty of MMO games out there that let you do just the thing you are looking for. ...

While there are a lot of more friendly MMOs in general on the market, there is no other space MMO with nearly the complexity of EVE. If there were then I would leave EVE in a heart beat.

I am stuck with EVE because I am really tired of elves & dwarves and mages & warriors. But that doesn't mean at all that I like the sociopathic nature of this game.


The basis for the "complexity of EVE" is it's PvP core. If the risk of PvP anywhere were removed, the game would lose most of the complexity you enjoy, not to mention a great number of it's already scarce players.

You basically seem to be saying "Eve is a great game, but it would be better if it were completely different."

As noted in previous posts, Eve is a niche game, and it either appeals or it doesn't. Most who try it don't like it. I don't like every game I've played...some more popular than Eve. But I don't waste time dwelling on why... I just move on. No shame, no hard feelings. Case: I never understood the appeal of ME2. Boring and repetitive, yet many Eve players swear by it.


Xavier Baudin
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:53:00 - [14]
 

Let me jump in here for a sec.

I have played EVE on and off since its beta. It is a lot safer now in high sec than it used to be (whichever sec it was at the beginning, you could get ganked anyway). So in that sense, over the years CCP has catered more and more to players like yourself.

When it comes to age, I am in the 'older age range', and find this probably the most entertaining MMO that is out there at the moment. Especially because there is a risk factor involved that is induced by players instead of a computer algorithm. That keeps it fresh, instead of completely predictable.

I also prefer the industrialist route, but definitely get a kick out of outsmarting those gankers, gate campers, etc. Nothing more fun but ruining their alledged 'easy kill', and have them call you names just because they were not smart enough to get you. Twisted Evil

Truth be told, in all the times that I played in total, I only got ganked twice. But that is becuase I am very cautious, plan ahead and make sure that I cover my behind. When I play solo even more than ever. In a group, one just makes sure the necessary protection is there.
And then still, one day you win, another you loose. It's all in the game. Just don't take it too seriously and for sure not personally, and you can still have a very enjoyable time in EVE with little PvP, if that is what you prefer.

Just give it a bit of time to learn the ropes of the game. You'll see that it can become quite fun if you do and put things a bit in perspective.

Whatever you decide on doing: have fun! Because that is what counts in the end.

gfldex
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:26:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ethan Pollard
Yes, I know, whining about being ganked is for losers and you need a thick skin to play EVE. That's just it. I don't know if I want to spend my time and hard earned money playing a game mostly dominated by internet trolls. I just wanted to pretend to be a space pilot for a while and not get caught up in endless aggression and reprisal. That's just not fun to me. I understand the appeal of testing your combat skills against real people and the thrill that comes with victory. That's what online FPS is for. This game was sold as some sort of simulated society where you could fill any niche you wanted. I guess I misunderstood.


And why are you telling us? (This is a serious question.)

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:49:00 - [16]
 

Well ... I think Ethan is gone and that was probably the best decision. If he just wanted a nice, quiet little game to craft in ... this isn't it.

I do a lot of mining. I like mining. I also like a challenge. Every time I undock - there's all kinds of things I'm thinking about and every single solitary time I see another player within striking distance of me - I'm watching them to see how they act.

When I was new I got blown up by can flippers - but - it was a conscious decision on my part to engage them. I wanted some PVP - and I got some ... *shrug*. On one occasion I tracked the guy down and we had a nice little conversation about why I got blown up. Great learning experience. The next time I got popped - I was just stupid ... mismanaged my ship ... I knew what I did wrong and ... didn't need to ask for advice from the guy who blew me up.

Anyway ... I've worked out my mining skills such that ... I haven't been can flipped in years. (Knock on wood ...).

In the belts:
I have at least two tabs in my over view - one with the rocks in them and the other without.
I only open the one with the rocks in it long enough to target a new one then go back to the other view - so I can see if someone comes into my belt.
I mine into a jet can held open with a bookmark.
A hauler takes the ore immediately out of the jet can and into it's hold.
If the hauler is gone ... I usually won't put ore into the can.
If someone comes into my belt - I do a Look on them - then move my POV around to their stern so I can see where they are going.
If they head for my can - I pull the bookmark and pop it. As long as I don't trash talk them - they just leave. Mostly I think they're embarrassed they tried to can flip me and failed.

The other thing I do is to mine in mission space in a quiet system with no Level IV agents to attract Level IV Mission Runners who attract Ninja's. I've yet to see a can flipper that would scan someone down to do it. There are to many easy pickings in the belts of crowded systems.


The thing is ... there is always an element of stress involved in EVE any time you un-dock. So if Ethan was looking for a nice quiet game ... this isn't it and he's right to move on.



Now ... all that said ... if he was suckered in by CCP marketing that made him think EVE was some kind of Space version of The Sims ... well ... I can understand some unhappiness at being mistaken about that.

*shrug*

.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.10 16:05:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 10/08/2011 16:06:59
Actually, you really can do what the OP wants to do in this game, you just have to do it right.

Flying an untanked mining barge in a busy 0.5/0.6 system and staying on grid with a Thrasher, were just two of the mistakes made here.

Sadly it looks like you've made some mistakes, drawn some conclusions and left.

Not a lot to say to that.

If you come back / haven't left, then you'll be able to find advice to do it right. I hope you see it as a learning experience.

Orlacc
Posted - 2011.08.10 16:42:00 - [18]
 

Too old for pvp??? I'm 58yo. Even mining is pvp as you are trying to outsell the competition.
If you are "old" then use that patience you should have to take the time and learn how to survive and flourish....

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:20:00 - [19]
 

Everything good or bad that happens to you in EVE is your own fault.

Thin-skinned implies you always consider yourself a victim. Not a good starting position.

I'm primarily an industrialist/miner. I laugh at my losses and mistakes, and learn from them (I hope).

There is no reason why you can't do relaxing mining in EVE, but if your idea of relaxing mining is AFK mining (which you aren't really even playing EVE), or being careless, reckless, or not vigilant, then yes you will pay a price for that eventually.

I own 3 Hulk, 2 Mackinaw, an Orca, and a Rorqual, and I usually mine alone with just a 4 account fleet.

Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:41:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Disastro
We once had a lady who was in her 70s. She was very into pvp once she learned the basics. Age has absolutely nothing to do with it.


That reminds me of The Toxic Granny

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.08.10 20:21:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 10/08/2011 16:06:59
Actually, you really can do what the OP wants to do in this game, you just have to do it right.

Flying an untanked mining barge in a busy 0.5/0.6 system and staying on grid with a Thrasher, were just two of the mistakes made here.

Sadly it looks like you've made some mistakes, drawn some conclusions and left.

Not a lot to say to that.

If you come back / haven't left, then you'll be able to find advice to do it right. I hope you see it as a learning experience.


Pretty much this, I zipped around for a good month or two mining belts like mad in a 0.6 system that was well off the beaten path back in early early '08, and I never once had any trouble from griefers. In fact there were usually only 2-3 other people in local, and that's what I looked for, systems with consistently low numbers in local. Even as a noob, I knew that this would be good for my safety, it just makes too much sense in a game like EVE.

The only time we drew attention to ourselves was when some of our members started doing L4s night after night in the Dodixie area, suddenly we found ourselves decced by empire griefers. No surprise there really.

@OP
You can find what you want in EVE if you just look hard enough for it.

Want a quiet place to mine? Find a quiet place.
Want to get down a low sec pipe to null? Wait for a quiet night.
Want to find trouble? Go to low sec between one trade hub and another.

It's common sense really. Not every experience in EVE is going to be A) You live or B) You die, most of it will be somewhere in between if you just roll around with no real understanding of your surroundings, it is only until you know what you are looking for that you can stack the odds better in your favor.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.08.10 20:30:00 - [22]
 



Well ... I guess relaxing is relative ...

Even the way I do it ... it's somewhat relaxing.

In any case - I am paranoid - so ... I'd probably worry even if people weren't out there ganking for the fun of it ...


Still ... from the tone of Ethan's post ... (if he's not a troll) he really sounded like he didn't want any kind of a threat at all from other players - which you can get in other on line games.


*shrug*


.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.10 20:45:00 - [23]
 

Don't be ashamed to admit that Eve is not for you.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:10:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Ethan Pollard
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. That's about the response I expected. I'm not saying people can't have a place to vent their aggression online. I just thought that online gaming would eventually evolve to have a broader appeal. I was wrong, lesson learned. I should just go back to single player gaming and leave the online stuff to "hardcore" and "edgy" gamers with the courage to take on a retriever with a battle cruiser. You guys have fun.


I totally understand your sentiment, but why haven't you been able to find the peaceful gaming experience you want? In high-sec, it's really fairly easy to stay out of trouble if you desire. Maybe this will help: www.isktheguide.com (it's a massive, free Eve guide).

Wa'roun
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:38:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Wa''roun on 11/08/2011 09:24:50
Originally by: Ethan Pollard
I'm a new player just six weeks old. I didn't join EVE for PVP. I'm just way to old for it. The game promised any style of play could be fun. I could explore space and do some nice relaxing mining. Well, after spending the last three weeks saving up isk and sp for my first mining barge i lost it to a suicide ganker in high sec space. The more I learn about EVE the more it seems like it is all about PVP and ganking noobs to make yourself feel powerful. I don't think there is any way for a low aggression player to have fun in this game. Especially if you haven't already spent thousands of hours online building up the resources to defend yourself.

Yes, I know, whining about being ganked is for losers and you need a thick skin to play EVE. That's just it. I don't know if I want to spend my time and hard earned money playing a game mostly dominated by internet trolls. I just wanted to pretend to be a space pilot for a while and not get caught up in endless aggression and reprisal. That's just not fun to me. I understand the appeal of testing your combat skills against real people and the thrill that comes with victory. That's what online FPS is for. This game was sold as some sort of simulated society where you could fill any niche you wanted. I guess I misunderstood.


Your loss mail tells the whole story.

1. You had absolutely NO TANK on your Retriever. A shield booster is not tank. You had low slots with nothing in them. If you aren't going to put cargo xpanders or mining laser upgrades, etc, put a damn damage control II in there. It doesn't take long to get the skills...which is yet another thing people do wrong: Jump into ships they are not fully equipped to use. Perhaps you should be in a fully insured T1 mining cruiser instead.

2. Since Vulturus lost his Thrasher in the fight, and your hobgoblin I is on the kill mail, you must have aggressed him. Did you aggress him first after he possibly can flipped you? If so then it is your fault.

3. Stay away from the newb griefing Arnon if not there to mission.

4. You can survive a single Thrasher gank if you are fit properly and in a higher sec level system. CONCORD will react faster in higher level systems. Sec 0.7 is the highest you can anchor a GSC in.

Keno Skir
Posted - 2011.08.11 03:06:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Keno Skir on 11/08/2011 03:07:01
Edited by: Keno Skir on 11/08/2011 03:06:29
Haha, swap lives with this guy :) He thinks pvp is impossible in EVE.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1560130

Question

Alexander Erata
Posted - 2011.08.11 04:12:00 - [27]
 

I want to apologize for my tone last night. Obviously I was still angry. I should not have suggested that your game sucks or should be changed. It's your game you can play how you want. The problem was I did not understand what suicide ganking was. I had already lost a cruiser in low sec and excepted that as my own fault. I had just gotten my barge and wanted to try it out (stupidly without equipping it well) and assumed I was safe in a 0.6 system. I knew that people would pop a miner in low sec and try to steal his loot. That's just part of the game. I'm sure PVP battles in low or 0 sec are a lot of fun. I didn't know someone would sacrifice a ship to concord just to ruin some noob's day. I still maintain that it was sociopathic troll like behavior. The biggest problem seems to be that I got so ****ed about it. Everyone knows you shouldn't feed the trolls. They think making someone else angry is the greatest accomplishment in the world. I guess I have anger problems and can't play a game like EVE. If there was another space game out there (besides Star Trek) I probably would play it but until then I'm back to single player.

Ethan Pollard
Posted - 2011.08.11 04:15:00 - [28]
 

That last post was from me. I used the wrong character.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.08.11 05:59:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Alexander Erata
I still maintain that it was sociopathic troll like behavior.


Actually, looking at the killmails, it wasn't.
Your ships value is estimated at 6.5 mil isk. His was 5 mil, with about 3 mil worth of ISK dropping (so he can pick it back up).
He was probably hoping for you to use more expensive items (which a lot of miners do) which would mean he would EARN ISK simply by blowing you up.
So he is 1up in the ISK war. In fact, if you haven't actually aggressed him he would be way ahead in killboard ISK efficiency, which is what actually matters.
Your retriever was merely a statistic in the pilots combat log.

Your tears just came as a bonus, but were probably not the original intention. The original intention was seeing an easy prey, and profiting from it.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.08.11 06:47:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Keno Skir
Edited by: Keno Skir on 11/08/2011 03:07:01
Edited by: Keno Skir on 11/08/2011 03:06:29
Haha, swap lives with this guy :) He thinks pvp is impossible in EVE.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1560130

Question


Ha! Ha!

Good one!

.


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