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Benny Hill
Caldari
General Thrusters
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:10:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan


We also see a clear correlation with gun control laws here, given german gun control laws are arguably less restrictive than in the UK, with the murder rate per capita involving firearms being four times as high.


Could you provide a graph, or chart, involving this data about the UK, Germany, and the USA, but - this time, include in your "clear correlation" gun ownership and use by Switzerland?

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:14:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: GreasyCarl Semah
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Well, looking at murders using firearms, it looks even worse with the US sporting over twentyfive times more murders involving firearms.

We also see a clear correlation with gun control laws here, given german gun control laws are arguably less restrictive than in the UK, with the murder rate per capita involving firearms being four times as high.


You mean guns are outlawed so fewer people die because of guns? Why is that suprising? More people also die from violent crime involving other weapons such as knives, much like what has happened in the UK. Fact is, a gun is fantastic equalizer, the smallest little old lady can bring down the biggest tough guy in the world with a $200 pistol. And that is the point, self defense.

In a free society, people are going to occasionally go crazy and commit murder, when they do it with a gun it is ugly. You can't do anything to stop that. We accept that here. If we are lucky, someone else can remove that threat with their weapon. Also, you never hear about 99% of the time where a gun owner is threatened, draws his weapon and uses it in a positive manner by making a threat magically evaporate into thin air. The biggest nastiest mugger or carjacker will rethink what he is doing when he realizes he is about to die. It is for this reason that the majority of local police agencies are fully in favor of citizens carrying guns.


I have a couple years of Sayoc Kali and some Sayoc Tactical training and I have to say, if I were to be attacked today and it was inevitable, but got to choose with what I would be attacked, I would pick a gun. Take a knife fighting course or two and you will draw the same conclusion.

I would rather be shot than take a heart stab to j-cut across the abdomin - usually followed up by an outer carotid slice or a direct stab to the thyroid (depending on who trained you) or worse: a stab to the perinium (yes, the family jewels but if that'a follow up to a J-cut or blue-worm you won't be noticing at that point because everything is hapenning while your guts spill out).

.. and every kitchen has implements capable of what I described.





baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:17:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Benny Hill


Could you provide a graph, or chart, involving this data about the UK, Germany, and the USA, but - this time, include in your "clear correlation" gun ownership and use by Switzerland?


The swiss dont have the problems the UK has with chavs or America has with stupidity in general. Education, discipline and ethics are the key, not giving everyone a gun.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:19:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 15/08/2011 23:45:47

Originally by: GreasyCarl Semah

You mean guns are outlawed so fewer people die because of guns? Why is that suprising? More people also die from violent crime involving other weapons such as knives, much like what has happened in the UK.



Of course people will always kill, whatever the means. There is the saying "guns dont kill (by themselves), people do", and that is certainly true.

However, if the overall murder per capita is higher, the murder per capita among teenagers is higher, that should be food for thought regardless of the murder per capita using firearms being a lot higher as well.

It is more a question of how generally violent a society is, how quick the society is to resort to killing as a means to resolve conflict, and if it is wise or not to have them armed without (much) restrictions.

Originally by: GreasyCarl Semah

Fact is, a gun is fantastic equalizer, the smallest little old lady can bring down the biggest tough guy in the world with a $200 pistol. And that is the point, self defense.



This unfortunately goes both ways, the whimpy kid that always gets picked on can bring down 20 of the biggest toughest guys in school plus a couple of teachers and even a police officer or two with a $200 pistol he stole from his dads locker.

The crackhead ready to drop dead any moment from his addiction can bring down a healthy guy that goes to the gym three times a week.


Originally by: Benny Hill

Could you provide a graph, or chart, involving this data about the UK, Germany, and the USA, but - this time, include in your "clear correlation" gun ownership and use by Switzerland?


Just to humour you, and partially because I was not expecting it to turn out this way either given Switzerland has a reputation of having virtually no issues with firearm related crime despite their very high per capita saturation of firearms:

US firearm homicides per 100k population: 3.97 (46% of total homicides (8.55 per 100k))
Switzerland firearm homicides per 100k population: 0.56 (37% of total homicides (1.52 per 100k))
Germany firearm homicides per 100k population: 0.47 (40% of total homicides (1.17 per 100k))
England & Wales firearm homicides per 100k population: 0.12 (8% of total homicides (1.45 per 100k))

This only includes homicide, i.e. the intentional and illegal killing of other people.

Muent Dai
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:59:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Benny Hill


Could you provide a graph, or chart, involving this data about the UK, Germany, and the USA, but - this time, include in your "clear correlation" gun ownership and use by Switzerland?


The swiss dont have the problems the UK has with chavs or America has with stupidity in general. Education, discipline and ethics are the key, not giving everyone a gun.


A small country with a homogenous population helps too.

Benny Hill
Caldari
General Thrusters
Posted - 2011.08.16 00:09:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: Benny Hill on 16/08/2011 00:10:30
Originally by: Omara Otawan


Just to humour you, and partially because I was not expecting it to turn out this way either given Switzerland has a reputation of having virtually no issues with firearm related crime despite their very high per capita saturation of firearms:

US firearm homicides per 100k population: 3.97 (46% of total homicides (8.55 per 100k))
Switzerland firearm homicides per 100k population: 0.56 (37% of total homicides (1.52 per 100k))
Germany firearm homicides per 100k population: 0.47 (40% of total homicides (1.17 per 100k))
England & Wales firearm homicides per 100k population: 0.12 (8% of total homicides (1.45 per 100k))

This only includes homicide, i.e. the intentional and illegal killing of other people.


You are halfway there. Now, to complete the "clear correlation," chart those statistics against gun ownership rates (including guns maintained and operated in a home) (not total guns per captia, but how many people have sole access to a firearm)

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.08.16 00:27:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 16/08/2011 00:42:15
Originally by: Benny Hill

You are halfway there. Now, to complete the "clear correlation," chart those statistics against gun ownership rates (including guns maintained and operated in a home) (not total guns per captia, but how many people have sole access to a firearm)


Total guns per capita is the only chart that seems to be available, and obviously it lines up:

US guns per 100 population: 88.8
Switzerland guns per 100 population: 45.7
Germany guns per 100 population: 30.3
England & Wales guns per 100 population: 6.2

Sole access to a firearm is kind of a moot point, see the problem with son taking daddies pistol for a rampage. You'll not find a good statistic there, given that sadly enough regulations on proper storage are not really enforcable (a big problem in germany which is frequently subject of debate).

I think you are actually looking for a chart comparing service issued weapons used in homicides versus privately bought weapons used in homicide for Switzerland.

---
Now let us assume for a moment the numbers were available, and Switzerland would indeed have the lowest amount of firearm homicides per gun owner with sole access and Germany would rank higher there. What would that suggest in terms of correlation between the desire to own a gun (that isnt provided as a service weapon), and the likelyhood of that exact gun ending up in a criminal context?

Bart Starr
Posted - 2011.08.16 00:34:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan

Just to humour you, and partially because I was not expecting it to turn out this way either given Switzerland has a reputation of having virtually no issues with firearm related crime despite their very high per capita saturation of firearms:

US firearm homicides per 100k population: 3.97 (46% of total homicides (8.55 per 100k))
Switzerland firearm homicides per 100k population: 0.56 (37% of total homicides (1.52 per 100k))
Germany firearm homicides per 100k population: 0.47 (40% of total homicides (1.17 per 100k))
England & Wales firearm homicides per 100k population: 0.12 (8% of total homicides (1.45 per 100k))

This only includes homicide, i.e. the intentional and illegal killing of other people.


Hey skippy, homicide is not 'the intentional and illegal killing of other people.' Homicide can be both unintentional or justified. Get your terms right so we compare apples to apples.

Also, LOL 'England and Wales'. What about Northern Ireland? Based on the numbers I saw (90's), they had HIGHER rates than the US. What about Scotland? My guess is that inclusion of these places will negatively effect your numbers.

But while we are cherry picking data, how about we compare 'England and Wales' to various US States, shall we?

Using the Guardian's numbers (yes, a rather dubious left-wing source, but I don't want people screaming 'Fox News'.)

Firearm Murders (not lol 'homicide') per 100K.

Idaho: 0.33
New Hampshire: 0.34
Iowa: 0.4
North Dakota: 0.49
South Dakota: 0.57
Hawaii: 0.70
Minnesota: 0.75
Maine: 0.83
Utah: 0.91
Oregon: 1.09

Despite being awash in guns, these US States manage to post firearm murder rates on par with European countries that have very strict gun control.

How do you explain this? Laughing

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.08.16 00:59:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 16/08/2011 01:11:49

Originally by: Bart Starr

Hey skippy, homicide is not 'the intentional and illegal killing of other people.' Homicide can be both unintentional or justified. Get your terms right so we compare apples to apples.


In fact, it is you who needs to get your terms right there chief. Homicide is never unintentional. The intentional part is what qualifies it as homicide in the first place. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Also, LOL 'England and Wales'. What about Northern Ireland? Based on the numbers I saw (90's), they had HIGHER rates than the US. What about Scotland? My guess is that inclusion of these places will negatively effect your numbers.


You are wrong, it would not effect the outcome at all to include Scotland and Ireland. It would just be a pain the the ass to manually calculate instead of copy & paste.

Ireland clocked in with 0.32 firearm homicides per 100k population, below Switzerland and Germany and well below the 3.97 of the US for the sample period.


Quote:
Despite being awash in guns, these US States manage to post firearm murder rates on par with European countries that have very strict gun control.

How do you explain this? Laughing


Pretty easy explanation, you are cherrypicking select regions of the US, completely ignoring demographics to intentionally skew results.

Not that I am surprised. Oh, why did you leave out Texas btw? Laughing

Also, these...

Hawaii: 0.70
Minnesota: 0.75
Maine: 0.83
Utah: 0.91
Oregon: 1.09

...only qualify if you accept twice as many murders per capita as the european countries have homicides (including justifiable!) as on par. Smile


Argue all you want, the US as well as Switzerland, have much higher per capita murder (not homicide) rates using firearms compared to Germany and especially the UK.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.16 01:24:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 16/08/2011 01:36:27
Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 16/08/2011 01:28:09
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Benny Hill


Could you provide a graph, or chart, involving this data about the UK, Germany, and the USA, but - this time, include in your "clear correlation" gun ownership and use by Switzerland?


The swiss dont have the problems the UK has with chavs or America has with stupidity in general. Education, discipline and ethics are the key, not giving everyone a gun.



If you would say that giving everybody a gun is not "the key", using the USA as your point, you should also have to submit that taking everyone's guns away, citing the UK as an example, is not the key either.

The Swiss, I must add, have not had decades of bad immigration laws, welfare state, failing education system, and societal collapse, that the US and UK has had.

Of course, the elites who routinely buy out governments and turn them into vending machines that pass bad immigration, welfare, and regulations, tend to keep their money in SWISS bank accounts. So perhaps they would hate to see their bank - uh... country - get invaded. Sure, Switzerland gets to have a real form of representative democracy, real self defense, and not have to pay for some aliens dinner, and that's not for no reason. If I had my (stolen) trillions in Switzerland, and maybe also my hideout from the people I stole it from, I would want it to be a safe and stable place too.

Of course, if the US ever gets a real congress back, WE will be hunting these banksters down and if we have to insert covert teams into Switzerland to get them, so be it.



Quote:
Pretty easy explanation, you are cherrypicking select regions of the US, completely ignoring demographics to intentionally skew results.



There is a LOT of truth to this. The disarmed victim zones and the castle doctrine states are like night and day in difference. I don't know how anyone could fail to notice this, but in the disarmed states (also called "peoples' republiks") the entire lives of the people there are centered around crime, avoiding it, being a victim of it, worried about it, etc. In New York people will pay nearly half a million for a nothing house on practically no land and 8000 a year in property taxes just to get away from "them". In Florida, I lived on a street that looked like Moss Isley and nobody messed around.

It's no surprise really. In New York, you can be a total Chav, beating the crap out of strangers at will, and get away with it for years until someone bigger or a martial arts expert comes along - or you finally kill someone and go to prison. In other parts of the US, that behavior gets you shot. Period.

Truth is, the statement I am quoting goes both ways. I can take all the disarmed victim zones and cherry pick only those, and come up with crime stats that would be worse than Europe. But take those regions where people can even carry openly on the street, and I would be accused of cherry picking low crime rates.

Nothing, however, would change anything for me. Real human rights is the right to defend your life. It's the kind of right that you need no permission to have, and no need for acceptance amongst urban yuppie types that lock their car doors if someone who does NOT look like a cast member from their favorite TV sitcom comes down the street (you know: any man who actually looks like a man, or is not as white as they are). If anyone tries to disarm me, there will be a fight. And while that may be called cowardly to carry a gun, it's even more so cowardly to disagree with it by hiding behind a little curtain in a voting booth and trying to turn the state into your personal weapon to carry out your agenda. If you want to disarm people, you may well have to done a uniform and pick up a rifle and do it yourself - because if your voting actually worked, the people you send to enforce might be in short supply.



Bart Starr
Posted - 2011.08.16 01:30:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Bart Starr on 16/08/2011 01:30:42
A) You said 'intentional and illegal'. The legal definition of criminal 'homicide' includes both murder AND involuntary manslaughter. Self-defense shootings are considered 'homicide' but are not a crime. Get a clue.

B) I didn't say IRELAND. I said Northern Ireland. Big difference. Yes, it would affect the statistics.

C) So, now you are saying that 'demographics' cause gun crime? You big RACIST you. I thought it was a lack of gun control that caused gun crime.

I assure you, those mostly Western states have just as many guns, if not more, per capita, than Texas. And their gun laws are likely equally lax. What they don't have in common with Texas, is a long border with Mexico.

Here are the states with the worst numbers:
Washington D.C: 18.84 (strict gun control) (57% black)
Louisiana: 10.46 (lax gun control) (32% black)
Alabama: 8.02 (lax gun control) (25% black)
Maryland: 6.06 (strict gun control) (27% black)
Mississippi: 5.64 (lax gun control) (36% black)

States with the best numbers:
Idaho: 0.33 (lax gun control (0.4% black)
New Hampshire: (lax gun control) .34 (0.9% black)
Iowa: .40 (lax gun control) (2.0% black)
North Dakota: .49 (lax gun control) (0.6% black)
South Dakota: .57 (lax gun control) (0.8% black)

Two big states:


Texas: 3.49 (lax gun control) (11% black)
New York: 4.49 (strict gun control) (15% black)

Its quite obvious that there is little to no correlation between 'gun control' and gun murders, but a very high correlation with a large black population and gun murders.


Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.16 01:43:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Bart Starr
Edited by: Bart Starr on 16/08/2011 01:30:42
A) You said 'intentional and illegal'. The legal definition of criminal 'homicide' includes both murder AND involuntary manslaughter. Self-defense shootings are considered 'homicide' but are not a crime. Get a clue.

B) I didn't say IRELAND. I said Northern Ireland. Big difference. Yes, it would affect the statistics.

C) So, now you are saying that 'demographics' cause gun crime? You big RACIST you. I thought it was a lack of gun control that caused gun crime.

I assure you, those mostly Western states have just as many guns, if not more, per capita, than Texas. And their gun laws are likely equally lax. What they don't have in common with Texas, is a long border with Mexico.

Here are the states with the worst numbers:
Washington D.C: 18.84 (strict gun control) (57% black)
Louisiana: 10.46 (lax gun control) (32% black)
Alabama: 8.02 (lax gun control) (25% black)
Maryland: 6.06 (strict gun control) (27% black)
Mississippi: 5.64 (lax gun control) (36% black)

States with the best numbers:
Idaho: 0.33 (lax gun control (0.4% black)
New Hampshire: (lax gun control) .34 (0.9% black)
Iowa: .40 (lax gun control) (2.0% black)
North Dakota: .49 (lax gun control) (0.6% black)
South Dakota: .57 (lax gun control) (0.8% black)

Two big states:


Texas: 3.49 (lax gun control) (11% black)
New York: 4.49 (strict gun control) (15% black)

Its quite obvious that there is little to no correlation between 'gun control' and gun murders, but a very high correlation with a large black population and gun murders.





Cross reference that with welfare distribution and you will find that it's basically the same problem that Britain has, lacking as much racial diversity.

Note those areas with the high concentration of crime are also the "flock to here because the white libbies will protect you from the big bad southerners" zones. But that "dream" was invoked by the same people who called them weeds and targeted that community for destruction.

The end result is what we see in crime stats - but we will always see a call for more laws, and never a call to roll back their "work". Guns were around long before these problems, didn't create them, and we never fall for them. They create problems like this just so they can call for more gun control.

Funny when I tell them that it makes no difference: I don't need their permission, don't need their acceptance, I don't need them.


Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.08.16 02:03:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 16/08/2011 02:05:48

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer

Cross reference that with welfare distribution and you will find that it's basically the same problem that Britain has, lacking as much racial diversity.



Then explain why the european countries where the welfare state is running rampant have the least problems with overall crime rates?

And why those that continually reduce welfare have disproportionally fast-rising crime rates?

Morton Engel
Posted - 2011.08.16 02:58:00 - [134]
 

1) The 2nd Amendment to the United States Bill of Rights is not about crime. It is not about shooting sports.

2) More guns in a given area, less crime. Generally there is more gun crime in Cities and States with more Gun Control laws.

3) Crime in America has little to do with either welfare, immigrant or marginalized minorities and marginalized ethnic groups. It has to do with Government. The prohibition on Narcotics drive violent crime period.

4) Most people in prison are not in prison for violating somebody's rights. They are there for violating the prohibition on Narcotics. They usually don't violate someone's rights until they get released from a 5 year sentence for a gram of meth and they joined a gang in prison to keep from getting sexually assaulted.

5) Judge all you like, America has it's laws and traditions and you have your own. I could care less how UK wants to live and I really don't care to give opinions on UK government and politics. Most UK people don't even know anything about how America is except from TV and I imagine my knowledge of life in Europe is rather limited having never visited Europe myself.

6) Opinions are like *******s, we all got one.

Benny Hill
Caldari
General Thrusters
Posted - 2011.08.16 04:57:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan

---
Now let us assume for a moment the numbers were available, and Switzerland would indeed have the lowest amount of firearm homicides per gun owner with sole access and Germany would rank higher there. What would that suggest in terms of correlation between the desire to own a gun (that isnt provided as a service weapon), and the likelyhood of that exact gun ending up in a criminal context?


You still haven't provided a correlation. The amount of guns per capita will not have a bearing on homicide rates. Someone can have 6 guns, but - they can only use one or two for a crime spree. Hunters own plenty of guns, but they rarely go on crime sprees, and there are a lot for hunters in the US. The US allows gun ownership, and since the value of guns have little depreciation and will work on day 200,000 as it did on day 1 if its cleaned properly, there isn't a reason to throw a gun away and they become collectors items. The guns per capita is a contrived number,unless the amount of guns one can own is strictly enforced, and is a low number. I stand to inherit 3 firearms. I am not going to sell them for the sale of selling them, I will just keep them. That inheritance will not increase my proclivity to commit a crime. Hunters will typically have 3-4 guns each.

The chart I want to see is the amount of gun owners to crime rates. It seems people believe that guns are magical and when there are more than two together they cause their owner to commit crimes.

Benny Hill
Caldari
General Thrusters
Posted - 2011.08.16 04:59:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Morton Engel


5) Judge all you like, America has it's laws and traditions and you have your own. I could care less how UK wants to live and I really don't care to give opinions on UK government and politics. Most UK people don't even know anything about how America is except from TV and I imagine my knowledge of life in Europe is rather limited having never visited Europe myself.




The UK's biggest source of knowledge about the USA in these forums, comes from Top Gear.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.16 07:35:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Benny Hill


The UK's biggest source of knowledge about the USA in these forums, comes from Top Gear.


Unlike the USA, the UK news does cover more than the big news in the rest of the world.

Bart Starr
Posted - 2011.08.16 08:48:00 - [138]
 

Edited by: Bart Starr on 16/08/2011 08:50:29
Originally by: Omara Otawan

Then explain why the european countries where the welfare state is running rampant have the least problems with overall crime rates?

And why those that continually reduce welfare have disproportionally fast-rising crime rates?


I spend a lot of time in Finland. Firearm crime is very low, but suicides/alcohol-related crime are elevated. Firearm laws are slightly more lax than in other European countries (despite constant badgering from Brussels).

Main difference? The ethnic minorities that cause so much havoc in the USA are in such small numbers they are literally a rounding error of a rounding error. Immigration into Finland is extremely limited.

And the Finns themselves only tend to get violent when the Red Army arrives uninvited, or when the Swedish hockey team shows up.

But look,
Finland is 99.8% white, making it demographically comparable to American states such as Idaho or Iowa. Hell, Minnesota is heavily populated by Finnish immigrants.

Iowa's welfare system is nonexistent compared to Finland. But it does have plenty of guns, few gun laws. And about HALF the firearm murder rate per 100K of Finland.

You can bury your head in the sand all you like.
Said it before, will say it again. USA's crime rates are hopelessly skewed by an ultraviolent black population that commits murder at nearly NINE times the rate of the general population. More than half of all the murders in the country are committed by a group that makes up only 12% of the total population.

But when you compare apples to apples - 'white' US States that more closely resemble European countries demographically - American criminal gunplay rates fall off dramatically, despite large numbers of guns and no regulation.

Kind of smashes your preconceived template, I know, but there you are. Glad to be of help. Smile

Jago Kain
Amarr
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.16 13:21:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Bart Starr
froth froth frothitty froth....but I've already been accused of racism once already.... froth froth froth


Perhaps this had something to do with you using the term "****ing ******(s)" in a previous post? I'm not sure how these words could be construed as anything other than racist, regardless of the context they were written in.

Get well soon.



Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.08.16 14:37:00 - [140]
 

I think many european countries have too strict restrictions on self-defense, especially inside your own house. Basically if things got so bad that many people would feel the need to steal they could march into anyones house and take their stuff. If they are attacked, home owner would be usually convicted of assault, manslaughter or murder.


Bart Starr
Posted - 2011.08.16 14:37:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Jago Kain
Originally by: Bart Starr
froth froth frothitty froth....but I've already been accused of racism once already.... froth froth froth


Perhaps this had something to do with you using the term XXXXXXXXXX in a previous post? I'm not sure how these words could be construed as anything other than racist, regardless of the context they were written in.

Get well soon.



I used that term in reference to one individual who killed a friendly coworker of mine to steal a few hundred dollars. That same individual would have thought nothing to do the same to me. The term applies, even if it offends your sensibilities.

Its pretty clear you are bereft of ideas, so feel free to take your sanctimony and **** off. Its the last I'll say on the matter, in the interest of keeping on topic.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.16 14:55:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 16/08/2011 02:05:48

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer

Cross reference that with welfare distribution and you will find that it's basically the same problem that Britain has, lacking as much racial diversity.



Then explain why the european countries where the welfare state is running rampant have the least problems with overall crime rates?

And why those that continually reduce welfare have disproportionally fast-rising crime rates?


For question 1: there is no money in corrupting homogenous European states with a weak border.
For question 2: Cite samples. In the USA during the late 1990s welfare was reduced and the crime rates dropped. Cite "those that reduced welfare".

How's the cherries?


Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.16 15:11:00 - [143]
 

Drugs are a reason for a lot of the crime in the US - but it's often not mentioned that the government is the worst trafficker of drugs. With the levels of interdiction we have here, a little baggie of dope should cost as much as a car by now.

And guns... well they facilitate guns into the wrong hands too.

This is why in the USA when they say "gun control" we say "bull****". We know who is really running the dope and the guns. Then they turn around and demand more police powers to stop the dope, and more controls on the guns. The so-called "right" is all for the war on drugs and clamor for more police powers. The so-called "left" is all for disarmament and calls for gun control. Nationalism + socialism and the end result is already apparent. Americans are tired of this "war on <insert boogie man>" crap and tired of "somebody somewhere did something bad so here are more laws for you".

Quote:
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary."

— H.L. Mencken





Jago Kain
Amarr
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.16 15:43:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Bart Starr
Originally by: Jago Kain
Originally by: Bart Starr
froth froth frothitty froth....but I've already been accused of racism once already.... froth froth froth


Perhaps this had something to do with you using the term XXXXXXXXXX in a previous post? I'm not sure how these words could be construed as anything other than racist, regardless of the context they were written in.

Get well soon.



I used that term in reference to one individual who killed a friendly coworker of mine to steal a few hundred dollars. That same individual would have thought nothing to do the same to me. The term applies, even if it offends your sensibilities.

Its pretty clear you are bereft of ideas, so feel free to take your sanctimony and **** off. Its the last I'll say on the matter, in the interest of keeping on topic.


True; my sensibilities have been offended by your racist outpourings... how does that make me sanctimonious?

If you'd described the guilty party as "thieving scumbag" or "murdering bastard" or something similar I'd have had no objection. The fact is you didn't, you chose to use a term that specifically referenced the colour of his skin like that was the root cause of his actions.

Good for you; you also found correlation between a higher percentage of black folk and higher crime. As has already been pointed out, there is also a high correlation between poverty and crime, and some folk even have suspions that the reason so many black folk are in poverty is because of institutionalised racism and that it is this which skews the figures and not the inate badness of anyone who happens to have been born with darker skin than His Supreme Pristene Whiteness Grand Dragon Bart Starr. Unofrtunately as this would not seem to fit too well with your narrow world view this seems to have escaped your attention.

As for being bereft of ideas, coming from someone who has chosen to use the Daily Mail to reference (like it would add any weight to his nonsensical arguments at all) I would find this amusing if it wasn't so sad.

Best wishes and hope for a speedy recovery.



Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:23:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Drugs are a reason for a lot of the crime in the US - but it's often not mentioned that the government is the worst trafficker of drugs. With the levels of interdiction we have here, a little baggie of dope should cost as much as a car by now.

And guns... well they facilitate guns into the wrong hands too.

This is why in the USA when they say "gun control" we say "bull****". We know who is really running the dope and the guns. Then they turn around and demand more police powers to stop the dope, and more controls on the guns. The so-called "right" is all for the war on drugs and clamor for more police powers. The so-called "left" is all for disarmament and calls for gun control. Nationalism + socialism and the end result is already apparent. Americans are tired of this "war on <insert boogie man>" crap and tired of "somebody somewhere did something bad so here are more laws for you".

Quote:
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary."

— H.L. Mencken







That was me above a few posts ago, btw.

Also, I would agree with part of that. Crack was introduced into the Ghettos of Los Angeles by the CIA themselves. The blame goes all the way to the top including Ronald Reagan. They brought a cheap, very strong high into America got the poor people hooked and oh how look at the crime rates rising...

Makes you wonder. I am an advocate of the legalization of all narcotics. Not because I use hard drugs, or wish to see them legalized for any other purpose than the general welfare of the Citizens.

They outlawed alcohol and crime shot up. They outlawed ********* and crime shot up. They outlaw any sort of personal habit or "vice" like prostitution, drugs, alcohol, ****ography and so on than they are just handing over a huge industry to a black market. People who operate in the black market use violence, coercion and generally resort to infringing upon other people's rights to life liberty and property.

Crime in America is basically subsidized by the Federal Government. Time to end those subsidies.

Ademaro Imre
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:55:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Bart Starr


You can bury your head in the sand all you like.
Said it before, will say it again. USA's crime rates are hopelessly skewed by an ultraviolent black population that commits murder at nearly NINE times the rate of the general population. More than half of all the murders in the country are committed by a group that makes up only 12% of the total population.



Before being called a racist because there are ultraviolent whites, your statement is true but it must be qualified. Gangs in the US drive the crime rate. Taking out gang related activity (which is essentially drugs), violent crime of all rate will drop 40 to 60%. Gangs in the US are special - because politicians will do nothing to stop them. Anything done to stop them are labeled racist. Even the ACLU jumps into action against curfew laws which have been specifically designed to curb gang activity. The biggest factor in gang activity - is the drug trade, and the US government will do nothing substantial about the drug trade and illegal border crossings, and ignore the consequences of being a neighbor to what is an essentially Cartel-run nation. Gang violence is so pervasive that a black man, is safer in combat in Afghanistan, than he is walking on the street of a major city. No one will do anything about it - because doing so - means arrests and lockups - and anything that increases the black population in jail, for any reason right or wrong, is considered racist in the US. Then the US has its latino gangs, eastern european gangs running around because no one wants to put the boot onto organized crime, and more violent crime is committed by people in support of the trades organized crime pursues.

Is there a European country with "American" gangs of teenagers and 20's year olds in it controlling entire city blocks? I don't think there is - and until there is one, No European will ever understand how diverse the US is. Hell, I live in Amish land in the US, and a Chinese Mafia group was busted nearby.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.08.16 17:30:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Ademaro Imre
No European will ever understand how diverse the US is.


Pro-Tip™: The film "Mary Poppins" is no longer an accurate depiction of London.

In fact I'd go so far as to say you have no idea how diverse London is. Or many UK inner cities.

Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.08.16 18:35:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
No European will ever understand how diverse the US is.


Pro-Tip™: The film "Mary Poppins" is no longer an accurate depiction of London.

In fact I'd go so far as to say you have no idea how diverse London is. Or many UK inner cities.



Not sure what you guys are bickering about. Now you are arguing over how much diversity the UK and America have? Come on now, all western nations are immigrant destinations nowadays.

UK gets a lot of immigrants from the Middle East and such. America gets a lot of immigrants from our Southern Neighbors in Latin America and generally from every corner of the globe on a consistent basis.

That is not the issue, I think the issue is how individual nations are struggling to maintain a national "identity" at the same time dealing with an ever changing ethnic/religious make up.

That is all this is about bro. Usually when economics play wrongly in any society the recent arrivals take the blame.

Here is a tip, cut back on the welfare state and immigration won't be such a financial and societal burden. Producers and generally productive people will come, and those who can not contribute will not come.

Brommil Vaep
Posted - 2011.08.16 20:09:00 - [149]
 

I like how it took 5 pages for Bart to finally come out and say it, "I do not like minorities!"

We in the USA have seen a resurgence of racism since the election of Obama. The white, Christian conservatives in this country are slowly losing their stranglehold on their "majority" status. Their death wails fill my ears with an extreme sense of satisfaction. It is personified with the advent of the "tea party". Aging white people who shake their fists with impotent rage.

Year - White - NonWhite
1950 89.5% 10.5%
2010 72.4% 27.6%

Year - Christian - NonChristian
1990 86.2% 13.8%
2008 76.0% 24.0%


Your death wails, they sustain me. Now I'm going to go make love to my agnostic mixed race girlfriend. You cling to those guns and holy books, they are your pacifier.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.16 21:41:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 16/08/2011 21:42:49
Originally by: Brommil Vaep
I like how it took 5 pages for Bart to finally come out and say it, "I do not like minorities!"

We in the USA have seen a resurgence of racism since the election of Obama. The white, Christian conservatives in this country are slowly losing their stranglehold on their "majority" status. Their death wails fill my ears with an extreme sense of satisfaction. It is personified with the advent of the "tea party". Aging white people who shake their fists with impotent rage.

Year - White - NonWhite
1950 89.5% 10.5%
2010 72.4% 27.6%

Year - Christian - NonChristian
1990 86.2% 13.8%
2008 76.0% 24.0%


Your death wails, they sustain me. Now I'm going to go make love to my agnostic mixed race girlfriend. You cling to those guns and holy books, they are your pacifier.



There's always some pointy-head talking the race card as a last resort and talking down to others as if they themselvs were on the so-called "winning team".

Fighting people like you is like fighting fire on a wooden ship: we do so knowing that if you win, you only put yourself out but we can handle getting wet and there will be no more fire.



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