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blankseplocked [Proposal] AFK Cloakers nerf solutions (no macro can avoid).
 
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Treya Neverette
Posted - 2011.08.12 14:09:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Torenc
So you wil be that ho wil sit 23/7 on the gate for month. and wil not go eat sleap to work att all. They to not stupid like you hoo will declouck if i nsytem meny blues and atack some one they will terorize neber hud un til wil be left only couple ppl and some one will make stupid move like start rating.

I can tell only one ting afk siting need to be nerfed, wie trued everitng agens them maked flet seted baits of day and day when wie already started to tik so he logs in probably boting just intel after 1 day he decloucked and atacks our member, so thet rater was dead in coule seconds and was shot bu 30 recons and 5 Bleck opses.

I see that you nver was in sych situation or yopu dont live in sov 0.0 space if so even dont speek you dont understand a **** baout you taliking.

Sin FTW

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.12 17:51:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Originally by: Dub Step
Cowardice, ignorance and incompetence is the problem, not cloaks.

AFK Cloacker are payed to do it and wanna continue to be payed. A nerf ruins this easy way to do money. This is the problem.
One example, does not a rule make.

Your problem is local, but I can see you know that as you are avoiding me like the plague. Wink

Cynoska McNamara
Posted - 2011.08.12 18:24:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Originally by: Dub Step
Cowardice, ignorance and incompetence is the problem, not cloaks.

AFK Cloacker are payed to do it and wanna continue to be payed. A nerf ruins this easy way to do money. This is the problem.
One example, does not a rule make.

Your problem is local, but I can see you know that as you are avoiding me like the plague. Wink

No local = no null-sec empires = empty 0.0 = pirate own goal
I don't think alliances can handle Massive Industry production in 0.0 without local.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.12 18:27:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Originally by: Mag's
Your problem is local, but I can see you know that as you are avoiding me like the plague. Wink

No local = no null-sec empires = empty 0.0 = pirate own goal
I don't think alliances can handle Massive Industry production in 0.0 without local.
But local is going to be changed, no one knows to what yet, but it is changing. Wink

But you again avoided the point, that it is local that is your problem and not cloaks.

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.12 22:31:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Torenc
Not safe i never safd safe, i sad use resureses niot sit my self in POS for 2 weeks and wait until soem ****ing afker dies or gos away, I wish to kil him find him and be able to find him, in soem monent that he cant sit all the time half or mostly afk, and do noting, i wish to able hunt him dowbn and kil befor hee kiled my corp m8 or allince m8.


only u're too scared to even try and kill him at all since u specifically stated 1 sentence ago that u're gonna hide inside an outpost for 2 weeks til the one red yet inactive blip on your local goes away. wanna try that again because an afk cloaker doesn't do anything, let alone kill; u're just a pansy.

Originally by: Torenc
way risk free eny way atackes are only rater kilers when comes top real pvp they runing and runing fast, thy dont look for fight but for easy kils only. they wil ned than pay for each jump thathey make in to our systems. Atleast hen they will not run so fast to chath them up and kill.


see above.

Originally by: Torenc
you wish that i show or that i write i wuld liek to show you, name you ratign system i wil bring my alts there and clouck and wil hold close a Black ops fleet to jump in you wil know your self how that is if 1 alt wil sit cloucked in each off your aliance system, i tink you wil fist try to bait me then afcors i wil not take bait ;) ( it o sited soem time afk in sytem s and know how to do that). And igf you cant name systme where you rat or you not rat att all you nto sopose to poste even here you dont know about you talking then.


0ek-nj. that's npc space 'cause unlike u, i don't need an army behind my back. u, however, can't even carebear it up even with an army babysitting u so we all know that once again, u're too scared to even try. Laughing

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.13 00:05:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi


That said I would say a better fix would to just add in a afk timeout like every other MMO has. If you have not entered any NEW input within a certian period of time...say 15 minutes...then the character is logged out. Yes a macro can bypass this...but that is another problem in which CCP needs a decent macro detection method and enforce it.




Literally every freighter pilot in eve would commit suicide the second a timer like this was brought in, just fyi.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Posted - 2011.08.13 00:45:00 - [67]
 

I would get behind a fuel charge. Of course this just means sneaking in a blockade runner so they can have a massive fuel reserve.

OMGWTFResearch
Posted - 2011.08.13 05:50:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: OMGWTFResearch on 13/08/2011 05:50:59
As per cue every time somes DARES to mention the exploiting of the cloaking devices the exploiters come in force to demonize and make suggestions that are beyond silly. "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" Doesn't work against something being exploited.

This is the EXACT same attitude given by those demanding that CCP not change concord and let them have their easy, risk free ganks in hisec. CCP made the right choice and beefed up concord and the resulting tears from exploiters would have breached a dam. This is NOTHING new folks.

The main issue is that the one exploiting the cloaking device can not only go eat dinner but go out, go to work, go to sleep, go 23 hours without touching the client while returning to surely find and get someone who didn't lag the server with constant D scans.

A stealth SHOULD have AN advantage in ability to strike but the way it is set up now is virtually risk free. Risk free long term intel, Risk free ganks, Risk free affect in systems.

The simple solution is random decloaks starting after 15-30 mins and increasing in chance the longer the module stays active. This will keep the legit reasons to use the cloak intact while punishing those who think it is ok to stay in a system cloaked while at work or having no interaction with the game other than putting unnecessary load on the server.

This will force the one in enemy territory to occasionally have to reset his cloak or log off. No more free intel.

This will not fix the marco issue but would help identify a few marcos as AFK cloakers get reported after the change.

Zachstar
Posted - 2011.08.13 05:52:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Zachstar on 13/08/2011 05:53:35
Edited by: Zachstar on 13/08/2011 05:52:46
Originally by: Danika Princip
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi


That said I would say a better fix would to just add in a afk timeout like every other MMO has. If you have not entered any NEW input within a certian period of time...say 15 minutes...then the character is logged out. Yes a macro can bypass this...but that is another problem in which CCP needs a decent macro detection method and enforce it.




Literally every freighter pilot in eve would commit suicide the second a timer like this was brought in, just fyi.


Not everyone Very Happy

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.13 08:45:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Edited by: OMGWTFResearch on 13/08/2011 05:50:59
As per cue every time somes DARES to mention the exploiting of the cloaking devices the exploiters come in force to demonize and make suggestions that are beyond silly. "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" Doesn't work against something being exploited.
There is one problem with your rant, it is not and has never been deemed, an exploit. Very Happy

You have the 100%, risk free, instant local intel tool and AFK cloakers are trying to subvert that tool. But it relies upon you to be effective, as an AFK cloaker cannot make you do anything.

Cynoska McNamara
Posted - 2011.08.13 12:09:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 13/08/2011 12:09:40
Originally by: Mag's
You have the 100%, risk free, instant local intel tool and AFK cloakers are trying to subvert that tool. But it relies upon you to be effective, as an AFK cloaker cannot make you do anything.

False. AFK Cloackers collet a lot of intel information without being able to prevent (intel is very important during alliance wars) and have the ability to attack like a clock bomb.
We are not naive.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.13 12:17:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 13/08/2011 12:09:40
Originally by: Mag's
You have the 100%, risk free, instant local intel tool and AFK cloakers are trying to subvert that tool. But it relies upon you to be effective, as an AFK cloaker cannot make you do anything.

False. AFK Cloackers collet a lot of intel information without being able to prevent (intel is very important during alliance wars) and have the ability to attack like a clock bomb.
We are not naive.
Please elaborate in what exactly I said that was false.

Also could you please restate what you just said, it really made no sense.

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.13 16:45:00 - [73]
 

OH
MY
GAWD

The levels of pathetic coward AFK whining in this thread are far beyond any previously registered QQ.

I especially like the bit about no local = everyone in high sec. Although it was written by a troll, since no one is that laughably illiterate, it still made me laugh.

OMGWTFResearch
Posted - 2011.08.13 23:55:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Edited by: OMGWTFResearch on 13/08/2011 05:50:59
As per cue every time somes DARES to mention the exploiting of the cloaking devices the exploiters come in force to demonize and make suggestions that are beyond silly. "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" Doesn't work against something being exploited.
There is one problem with your rant, it is not and has never been deemed, an exploit. Very Happy

You have the 100%, risk free, instant local intel tool and AFK cloakers are trying to subvert that tool. But it relies upon you to be effective, as an AFK cloaker cannot make you do anything.


Yep the whines from the AFK cloakers sound just like the whines from pirates when concord got buffed "CCP you give freighters easy hisec whine whine WHINE!"

Step #1 Claim actions are not an exploit.
Step #2 Call others who dare mention the issue carebears.
Step #3 Suggest beyond stupid suggestions for "dealing" with the use of the exploit.
Step #4 Beg CCP to not fix the exploit to stem the flow of virtually free kills.
Step #5 Rage on the topic where CCP announces a fix for the exploit.

I have seen this before and will see it again. CCP will eventually fix this issue so don't let the AFK cloaker's whines deter you. Keep up the suggestions for a fix for this exploit.


Sephiroth CloneIIV
Rim Worlds Republic
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.14 03:54:00 - [75]
 

I can kind of see why people might want constant afk cloaking not to happen in all systems. That would be kind of cheep. It is always possible, for a rival to afk cloak everything.

But... does it really ever happen anywhere that often, on a even remotely massive scate? I have been living in null for a while. The only times I remember \ constant hostiles and nutes in system is around when people are invading or attacking you (so one cloaked ship is the least of your worry's). And when visiting the bigest hub of a allie that is the largest alliance in game, allways a nute in that system (VFK). Beyond that sov nullsec space is pretty desolate even with stations so you could just move to a system that is quiet 90% of the time or more.

Beyond sov nullsec anyone can dock in stations, so a person could remain docked in station and always be a hidden threat with even less effort then cloaking (don't even need to hit a module you are in invulnerable station to start with).

This is a elaborate debate about a none issue which is uncommon.

Diablo Ex
Caldari
The Devil's Reject's
Posted - 2011.08.14 04:53:00 - [76]
 

If you can't do without Local Channel, and you can't stand watching that cloaked ship loitering in Local, then I think that the action of cloaking should remove the player listing from Local. After all they should be hidden from view...

Ildryn
Posted - 2011.08.14 06:23:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Bleah bleah


This coming from someone who has no idea what it is like living in null.
Hell you didn't even know wtz came much later than dictor bubbles and interdictors.

I don't personally care about the afk cloakers.
I say fix local itself. 0.0 = no local.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.14 09:46:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Originally by: Mag's
There is one problem with your rant, it is not and has never been deemed, an exploit. Very Happy

You have the 100%, risk free, instant local intel tool and AFK cloakers are trying to subvert that tool. But it relies upon you to be effective, as an AFK cloaker cannot make you do anything.


Yep the whines from the AFK cloakers sound just like the whines from pirates when concord got buffed "CCP you give freighters easy hisec whine whine WHINE!"
I know you're busy ranting, but just a heads up, for game mechanic reasons us pirates operate in low sec. When we do venture into high sec for lulz, we all expect to get concorded at some point. Whether they were buffed or not, makes absolutely no difference to us. Wink

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Step #1 Claim actions are not an exploit.
Which it isn't. You stated it is, please provide proof of this.

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Step #2 Call others who dare mention the issue carebears.
I've never done this, but it's others choice to do so. After all, this is a forum open for all Eve players to post in. Calling someone a carebear is quite a standard thing around here, in many regards. But it's a retort made, to elicit a certain response.

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Step #3 Suggest beyond stupid suggestions for "dealing" with the use of the exploit.
What exploit? But let's face it, if you don't want to change how you approach PvE with an enemy in local, that's not really our problem. But only highlights the one who is stupid.

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Step #4 Beg CCP to not fix the exploit to stem the flow of virtually free kills.
What exploit?

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Step #5 Rage on the topic where CCP announces a fix for the exploit.
Again, what exploit? The only thing so far that CCP has said they are fixing, in relation to this, is local. Local is after all, the reason for AFK cloaking.

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
I have seen this before and will see it again. CCP will eventually fix this issue so don't let the AFK cloaker's whines deter you. Keep up the suggestions for a fix for this exploit.
Yet again, what exploit?



Cynoska McNamara
Posted - 2011.08.14 11:13:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 11:15:18
Originally by: Mag's

"What exploit" song


You begin to get boring. We understand that for you is not an exploit

The CCP will change the local .. but knowing it, I'm sure it will be in favor of alliances and sovereignty .. and not of pirates.

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.14 11:22:00 - [80]
 

Nothing is an exploit simply because you don't like it.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.14 12:00:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Mag''s on 14/08/2011 12:02:29
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Originally by: Mag's

"What exploit" song


You begin to get boring. We understand that for you is not an exploit
If you want to cry exploit, you need to then show proof that it is in fact an exploit.

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
The CCP will change the local .. but knowing it, I'm sure it will be in favor of alliances and sovereignty .. and not of pirates.
We are actually talking about null sec here, aren't we? I'm sure when low sec local changes, we'll adapt and change with it. Wink

Any chance you could answer the questions I asked, in post 72?

Cynoska McNamara
Posted - 2011.08.14 12:10:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 12:10:37
Originally by: Mag's
Any chance you could answer the questions I asked, in post 72?

I have already explained my reasons for a fix that does not change the game of real pirates but avoid safe espionage and psychological terrorism. I don't want to go off-topic. It would be a fruitless discussion.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.14 12:15:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 12:10:37
Originally by: Mag's
Any chance you could answer the questions I asked, in post 72?

I have already explained my reasons for a fix that does not change the game of real pirates but avoid safe espionage and psychological terrorism. I don't want to go off-topic. It would be a fruitless discussion.
It was a simple question and request. Can't see why you would want to avoid it tbh. It is after all on topic.

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.14 12:26:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
It would be a fruitless discussion.

It already is. CCP aren't going to cave in to your carebear demands when there are already mechanics in-game to fix what you are crying about.

Kyr Evotorin
Eye of God
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.08.14 14:36:00 - [85]
 

It is quite comical though...

So... let us take a look...

•Cloaky guy enters the system of enemy.
•People notify in intel channels of this guy's existence.
Possibility 1:
•After X amount of time, people likely start ratting in the system because they believe the Risk vs. reward is a good one (assumptions of the cloaky being afk).
•Cloaky unveils himself onto a ratter.
•Standing fleet pew pews.
Possibility 2:
•Miner starts mining.
•Cloaky unveils himself.
•Standing fleet pewpew.

So sure, I hate cloaky AFKers, but look at the facts... The only way a single person could be a threat is if you have no tank and he kills you before the standing fleet can react. amiright?

The problem on the AFK end and how they can be safe while you are not safe... Technically they are not safe. For those who will want an explanation:
they CAN be uncloaked while sitting afk in your system. counter argument? they could be anywhere? awwwh, too bad. If you don't want to take the time to find him (I don't think anyone would EVER), that's your choice. You allow him to be safe by not searching for him. (Yes, I understand this is weak, but it is true)

Aside from that one technicality, they generally are safe. I keep thinking, that's not fair that they can AFK and be safe. I keep wishing I could agree with you guys that want this changed (not fixed because CCP hasn't declared it broken afaik), but I look at the grand scheme of null and see that the problem is players who play alone. I see this because I play alone most of the time, and AFK cloakers used to be the reason I never undocked. AFK cloakies provide very little fear to me now. The same cloaky has been in one of my other toon's systems for almost 3 weeks now, I've been mining since day 2 of his arrival.

The last comment here made me think of this. before that comment on how the tools are available in game to stave off this... issue, I was erring on the side of option #1, but really, why would CCP put work into an issue that is not logical? Sorry guys, I'm a carebear and... you are wrong. :) thanks.

JOIN standing fleets.

DON'T undock untanked.

LOG IN to your alliance/corp's chat client.

Risk vs. Reward.

Win at Eve. (Eve is a game of logic, stop being emotional, it gets you keeled.)

Cynoska McNamara
Posted - 2011.08.14 17:38:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Kyr Evotorin
It is quite comical though...

So... let us take a look...

•Cloaky guy enters the system of enemy.
•People notify in intel channels of this guy's existence.
Possibility 1:
•After X amount of time, people likely start ratting in the system because they believe the Risk vs. reward is a good one (assumptions of the cloaky being afk).
•Cloaky unveils himself onto a ratter.
•Standing fleet pew pews.
Possibility 2:
•Miner starts mining.
•Cloaky unveils himself.
•Standing fleet pewpew.

So sure, I hate cloaky AFKers, but look at the facts... The only way a single person could be a threat is if you have no tank and he kills you before the standing fleet can react. amiright?

The problem on the AFK end and how they can be safe while you are not safe... Technically they are not safe. For those who will want an explanation:
they CAN be uncloaked while sitting afk in your system. counter argument? they could be anywhere? awwwh, too bad. If you don't want to take the time to find him (I don't think anyone would EVER), that's your choice. You allow him to be safe by not searching for him. (Yes, I understand this is weak, but it is true)

Aside from that one technicality, they generally are safe. I keep thinking, that's not fair that they can AFK and be safe. I keep wishing I could agree with you guys that want this changed (not fixed because CCP hasn't declared it broken afaik), but I look at the grand scheme of null and see that the problem is players who play alone. I see this because I play alone most of the time, and AFK cloakers used to be the reason I never undocked. AFK cloakies provide very little fear to me now. The same cloaky has been in one of my other toon's systems for almost 3 weeks now, I've been mining since day 2 of his arrival.

The last comment here made me think of this. before that comment on how the tools are available in game to stave off this... issue, I was erring on the side of option #1, but really, why would CCP put work into an issue that is not logical? Sorry guys, I'm a carebear and... you are wrong. :) thanks.

JOIN standing fleets.

DON'T undock untanked.

LOG IN to your alliance/corp's chat client.

Risk vs. Reward.

Win at Eve. (Eve is a game of logic, stop being emotional, it gets you keeled.)

I like your answer.
But the intel data that a cloaked pilot could collect without be hunted is unfair anyway.

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.14 18:02:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
But the intel data that a cloaked pilot could collect without be hunted is unfair anyway.


Please indicate how intel gathering on hostiles is in any way 'unfair', and how the word 'unfair' does not fit in with the cold-harsh universe that is New Eden?

You have the same ability to spy on others, perfectly balanced.

OMGWTFResearch
Posted - 2011.08.14 18:51:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Dub Step
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
It would be a fruitless discussion.

It already is. CCP aren't going to cave in to your carebear demands when there are already mechanics in-game to fix what you are crying about.



Heard that as well before CCP nerfed virtually free kills in hisec with the CONCORD buff. Nothing new from the Pro-AFK exploit crowd.

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.14 18:59:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Originally by: Dub Step
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
It would be a fruitless discussion.

It already is. CCP aren't going to cave in to your carebear demands when there are already mechanics in-game to fix what you are crying about.



Heard that as well before CCP nerfed virtually free kills in hisec with the CONCORD buff. Nothing new from the Pro-AFK exploit crowd.


Exploit? how exactly is cloaking an exploit?

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.14 19:30:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Mag''s on 14/08/2011 19:48:52
Originally by: Danika Princip
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Heard that as well before CCP nerfed virtually free kills in hisec with the CONCORD buff. Nothing new from the Pro-AFK exploit crowd.


Exploit? how exactly is cloaking an exploit?
Don't expect a logical or factual answer. Both OMGWTFResearch and Cynoska McNamara are making baseless claims and avoid answering difficult questions regarding those claims.


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