open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Why are renters classed as 3rd class?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

Author Topic

Metal Icarus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:18:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Magnus Veyr
My kills being absent is easily explained by me being a posting alt (guess why that is)


So many reasons... In the end though you are making fun of a loss 1 month into his eve career and you wont make any mention of your own killboard. So please PVP master, enlighten us with your glorious kills and justify making fun of a 1 month old char, fail-fit death to a very experienced PVP alliance.

I think he is talking about the differnece of living in high sec (living with the high sp predators who declare war on low SP chars) and living in 0.0 and how anyone who wants to fight doesn't have any game mechanics to hide behind.

There are no:
Neut reppers
Station games
Concord

There are:
BubblesTwisted Evil

Sure logistics is harder but in the end, there is more security as anyone who wants to fight, has to fight everyone. (Moar kills if you're good enough..YARRRR!!)

In the end, renting is fun if you participate and make the most of the expeirence by pvp'ing.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:19:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Abrazzar on 09/08/2011 15:19:25
Renters are still better treated than industrial people. At least you are allowed the off-chance for some profits, try that in a alliance as manufacturer and you'll be branded a traitor.

Magnus Veyr
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:29:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Morbidusk Yotosala
Magnus you're being silly now.. I've stated that is my money making alt. He rarely does any PVP. My PVP alt. I fly more so than Morbid since I only need to fly him to make money really. Secondly, I lost that Daredevil. I think the fit was decent, considering I paid nothing for the mods and got them off drops. in my nice 0.0 paid system that I get some protection for as well as get to defend along with surrounding "blue" systems when I feel(all the time). AmIrite?


The fact that it's your pve alt or not is here nor there, you don't suddenly lose your fitting knowledge just because you switch character so you reasoning makes no sense. And the notion that your DD was actually decent fit shows exactly that; you don't really have a clue.

Mind you, I'm not "bashing" you for **** fitting, any new players is going to fit atrociously bad, we all did in the beginning and is just to be expected. However, **** fitting and then boasting about how fantastic you are and how others must be "carebears" and "silly high sec pvpers or ppl who live in NPC", that is why I'm replying to this in the manner that I do.

Fact is that you have no real clue, fact is that you live in a renter alliance. Neither of those is particularly bad for a new player, but you bark way more than you bite. You spout a lot of words backed by evidence that shows you really shouldn't. Thus you get bored feks like me to reply to you.

Morbidusk Yotosala
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:36:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Morbidusk Yotosala on 09/08/2011 15:42:56
Originally by: Magnus Veyr
Originally by: Morbidusk Yotosala
Magnus you're being silly now.. I've stated that is my money making alt. He rarely does any PVP. My PVP alt. I fly more so than Morbid since I only need to fly him to make money really. Secondly, I lost that Daredevil. I think the fit was decent, considering I paid nothing for the mods and got them off drops. in my nice 0.0 paid system that I get some protection for as well as get to defend along with surrounding "blue" systems when I feel(all the time). AmIrite?


The fact that it's your pve alt or not is here nor there, you don't suddenly lose your fitting knowledge just because you switch character so you reasoning makes no sense. And the notion that your DD was actually decent fit shows exactly that; you don't really have a clue.

Mind you, I'm not "bashing" you for **** fitting, any new players is going to fit atrociously bad, we all did in the beginning and is just to be expected. However, **** fitting and then boasting about how fantastic you are and how others must be "carebears" and "silly high sec pvpers or ppl who live in NPC", that is why I'm replying to this in the manner that I do.

Fact is that you have no real clue, fact is that you live in a renter alliance. Neither of those is particularly bad for a new player, but you bark way more than you bite. You spout a lot of words backed by evidence that shows you really shouldn't. Thus you get bored feks like me to reply to you.


You're KB plz or just hush.. My fitting has nothing to do with holding SOV, renting SOV, or having the balls to be in Null-sec and not concord-sec. You're getting angry because I pulled your carebare card. It's okay, living in null makes most renters have little respect for hi-sec.. Renters surprisingly feel more like citizens than hi-sec.. You arent even welcome..

I'm sittin in HED-GP right now with a bunch of other no-blue intels as RENTER. Actively making efforts to defend his SOV against oncoming forces. You.. How's that incusrion going?

Generals4
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:44:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Morbidusk Yotosala


You're KB plz or just hush.. My fitting has nothing to do with holding SOV, renting SOV, or having the balls to be in Null-sec and not concord-sec. You're getting angry because I pulled your carebare card. It's okay, living in null makes most renters have little respect for hi-sec.. Renters surprisingly feel more like citizens than hi-sec.. You arent even welcome..


What's so special about nullsec than? Been there, nothing that special apart from huge blobs and bubbles. I learned more about PVP in the militia than i did in null.

Magnus Veyr
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:49:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Magnus Veyr on 09/08/2011 15:52:39
Originally by: Morbidusk Yotosala
You're KB plz or just hush.. My fitting has nothing to do with holding SOV, renting SOV, or having the balls to be in Null-sec and not concord-sec. You're getting angry because I pulled your carebare card. It's okay, living in null makes most renters have little respect for hi-sec.. Renters surprisingly feel more like citizens than hi-sec.. You arent even welcome..

I'm sittin in HED-GP right now with a bunch of other no-blue intels as RENTER. Actively making efforts to defend his SOV against oncoming forces. You.. How's that incusrion going?


I would classify you as a troll, but then I look at your losses and get the idea you really are that bad. It's amusing really.

At least your corpie has a decent understanding on how to fit ships. Notice how I don't "bash" him for his hookbill losses, it's not the losses that count for much or even a positive K:D (as if that matters), it's having an understanding of what you're doing. And you show that you have no clue while hiding in a group of players, leeching onto kills with 2% damage and boasting about how badass you are (you're not).


Originally by: Generals4
What's so special about nullsec than? Been there, nothing that special apart from huge blobs and bubbles. I learned more about PVP in the militia than i did in null.


That's the crux really, being in blobs flying what you're told to fly and fitting how you're told to fit (or even messing that one up) doesn't exactly count as PVP, it just counts as "doing what you're being told to do". Actual understanding of the pvp basics comes from being solo or in a small group, mind you; fleet PVP is fun at times and requires a different skillset (especially as FC)but the majority of 0.0 blobbers are the same cattle that grind missions or mine in hulks.



Morbidusk Yotosala
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:57:00 - [37]
 

Notice how you still refer to a "money" alt and not an actual PVP toon who would have proper KB fittings, kills, loses, damage done/taken, isk lost/taken all that stuff that your hinting to as proper knowledge of holding 0.0 Sov.

Yes my Corp/Ally know fittings and such and learn more everyday. You're doing what debaters like to call.. "Reaching" basically, you've got no actual facts or non-biases backed experiences in null or with renters to really contribute to the thread.

I'm still in HED-GP on my PVP, if you'd like I can jump into Keberz right quick so you can wardec meh..?

Quebber
Posted - 2011.08.09 16:26:00 - [38]
 

What a fun topic this turned out to be, it does seem to be an emotional subject for alot of people.

I remember myself being on CTA's and going through systems with ratters who were blue and never in the fleet.

See we are abit of a wierd corp :P

We don't rat/mission or plex for isk we do it because well erm we actually like blowing npc's up.

The corp/ships/ammo/shiny is funded by other means including GTC's meaning we are not limited to the isk per hour lifestyle of most renters.

Honestly we rent because we wanted to put up a large pos, stick loads of guns/missiles/webs/damps and chickens outside of it then call it a fun name (also being from a pvp background I much prefer logging off in a pos than in a station).

We put up an Ihub and did the sov thing because it looked fun!

We onlined the guns and shot each other with them because it seemed a fun idea as did buying a years worth of pos fuels and working out the logistics of getting it to our home in 0.0 (in hindsight that part did not turn out to be fun).

And pvp is most definetly fun, as anyone who knew me when I took out my moros for a pos bash(surround sound to max, graphics to full and listen to the prrty prrty blasters firing as I watch the lightshow), that can be fun too and yes I never put anything other than guristas ammo in my dreadnought (some people won't launch a dred without faction modules me I won't fire anything but faction ammo with it)

When I joined a new corp it was perfectly normal for me to bring 50+ of every module I would ever need and 50+ ships so that once I started to pvp I did not haveto stop, to me that was commiting to the corp I was joining.

Maybe I am crazy but as anyone will tell you having isk does not mean you succeed in eve especial in pvp, I just prefer to spend my time in eve doing what I want to do :)

Morbidusk Yotosala
Posted - 2011.08.09 16:31:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Quebber
What a fun topic this turned out to be, it does seem to be an emotional subject for alot of people.

I remember myself being on CTA's and going through systems with ratters who were blue and never in the fleet.

See we are abit of a wierd corp :P

We don't rat/mission or plex for isk we do it because well erm we actually like blowing npc's up.

The corp/ships/ammo/shiny is funded by other means including GTC's meaning we are not limited to the isk per hour lifestyle of most renters.

Honestly we rent because we wanted to put up a large pos, stick loads of guns/missiles/webs/damps and chickens outside of it then call it a fun name (also being from a pvp background I much prefer logging off in a pos than in a station).

We put up an Ihub and did the sov thing because it looked fun!

We onlined the guns and shot each other with them because it seemed a fun idea as did buying a years worth of pos fuels and working out the logistics of getting it to our home in 0.0 (in hindsight that part did not turn out to be fun).

And pvp is most definetly fun, as anyone who knew me when I took out my moros for a pos bash(surround sound to max, graphics to full and listen to the prrty prrty blasters firing as I watch the lightshow), that can be fun too and yes I never put anything other than guristas ammo in my dreadnought (some people won't launch a dred without faction modules me I won't fire anything but faction ammo with it)

When I joined a new corp it was perfectly normal for me to bring 50+ of every module I would ever need and 50+ ships so that once I started to pvp I did not haveto stop, to me that was commiting to the corp I was joining.

Maybe I am crazy but as anyone will tell you having isk does not mean you succeed in eve especial in pvp, I just prefer to spend my time in eve doing what I want to do :)


Great post needs to be in the "Misconceptions of EVE" topic as well..

Quebber
Posted - 2011.08.09 16:41:00 - [40]
 

Something quite amusing happened a couple of weeks ago, I was teaching the members about decloaking on a gate, you know all the normal tactics, we have two members who really love small ship skirmish/scout so I am going through a gate in a hound to give them a challenge, we did it about 10 times and all was going smoothly.

Remember these people are new to eve but after abit they got it down to being able to decloak me pretty well, a couple of other members came in and asigned there drones to the decloakers..

Well after a successful decloak I turn to head back to the gate to give them another try and see the "such and such is warp scrambling you" no problem I think to myself and then I remember the drones, 15 drones insta pop my poor little hound, I just couldn't stop laughing.

Kumq uat
Posted - 2011.08.09 16:46:00 - [41]
 

Morbidusk Yotosala. You would be known in the trade as a loot pinata.

Morbidusk Yotosala
Posted - 2011.08.09 17:12:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Kumq uat
Morbidusk Yotosala. You would be known in the trade as a loot pinata.


I prefer bait..

JC Ferguson
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.08.09 18:49:00 - [43]
 

Renters are lame because they pay to be someone else's ***** in an Internet Spaceships game. In doing so, they reduce the quality of gameplay for everybody else.

Of course, the same can be said for big alliance peons.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.09 18:55:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Mag''s on 09/08/2011 18:59:12

Because from my own experience, it's renters that whine about AFK cloakers the most. Very Happy

Kumq uat
Posted - 2011.08.09 19:08:00 - [45]
 

Anyways, for serials, the main reason space holding alliances look down their noses on renters is because of the attitudes of the renters themselves. From most of my experience, and I am not saying every renter is like this, but the majority seem to think that because they pay x amount of isk to rent this space that it should be as safe as high sec.

They end up losing some ships to roaming gangs because they were not actually paying attention to local or the intel channels and then start the ear piercings whines associated with carebears the world over. They seem to think that their isk means that the alliance they are paying it to be their indentured servants who will sit in belt with a combat fleet to protect their poor little retrievers despite the fact the rental agreement explicitly states that while the alliance will do their best to defend against incursions it is overall up to the renters themselves to be smart and not treat this little patch of 0.0 as secure space and to be smart.

That is why most alliance really don't like renters.

Quebber
Posted - 2011.08.09 20:03:00 - [46]
 

We luv cloakies
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13989633

Morbidusk Yotosala
Posted - 2011.08.09 20:05:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Kumq uat
Anyways, for serials, the main reason space holding alliances look down their noses on renters is because of the attitudes of the renters themselves. From most of my experience, and I am not saying every renter is like this, but the majority seem to think that because they pay x amount of isk to rent this space that it should be as safe as high sec.

They end up losing some ships to roaming gangs because they were not actually paying attention to local or the intel channels and then start the ear piercings whines associated with carebears the world over. They seem to think that their isk means that the alliance they are paying it to be their indentured servants who will sit in belt with a combat fleet to protect their poor little retrievers despite the fact the rental agreement explicitly states that while the alliance will do their best to defend against incursions it is overall up to the renters themselves to be smart and not treat this little patch of 0.0 as secure space and to be smart.

That is why most alliance really don't like renters.


Some of the things you are listing seem more like newbie mistakes more so than renter mistakes. Why would we move to 0.0 for it to feel like hi-sec? LoL.. That just cancels out the whole reason an "average" renter would move out of hi-sec.

AFK campers are newb worries, it sucks but most know if they dont have probes and you at least burn out of your site (if applicaple) you should be fine. When paying for a system 9 times out 10 its going to come with some type of "renters agreement".. Just like IRL.. Your landlord has to provide you with certain ammenaties. In this case it would be strong arming, those that would come in to SERIOUSLY strong arm the renter. Why?

They are renting from you for a reason, you knew that when you agreed to let the put up theat TCU.. So don't ***** when they come to you asking for some favors. It'd be stupid for you as a "spacelord" to not anticipate your renters possibly needing a hand now and again.

BUT since in most cases a renters system is actually part of your Alliances networks. Why would not be inclined to protect them to some extent and in some fashion. Higher end systems that are rented out would maybe recieve more help if need be compared to a back-end system.

It's funny seeing so many upset at a entity of 0.0 that makes them so much iskies for basically doing nothing in the system. I can't imagine any renter corp really asking for help like that on any regular basis anyhow. Projection of forces on a mass scale in renter system would more than likely be a waste anyways.

I'm starting to think that more people are upset at the fact that if someone did come to take your systems. The only ones remaining when it was all said it done.. Would be your renters, renting from the new SOV.. LoL..

I'm j/k, don't get QQ'y.. Hi-lo-wardec-care-vets-spacelords of EVE.. Your renters appreciate the work you put into gaining the system and letting us rat and stuff and you know all that good stuff.. and I'm sure you guys appreciate the fresh billions every month.. lol

Quebber
Posted - 2011.08.09 20:54:00 - [48]
 

Our landlords are treating us pretty good and for that alone we will defend this system, deal and adapt for aslong as we rent.

We give intel and I personally because of my past love of spec ops training in games (Miss AO Division 9 s.o) i keep a nice long list of every =/- that comes near our system building up a profile.

But I am really proud of our members, not many kills yet but even when I am not on if a =/- comes in system they are back to pos and in a pvp ship :).

Acrior
Posted - 2011.08.09 21:29:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Quebber
(Miss AO Division 9 s.o)


anarchy online? **** dawg, we need a fistbump right here right now

Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.09 21:41:00 - [50]
 

Renting is a scam, Keeping renters in their place is part of it.

Quebber
Posted - 2011.08.09 21:52:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Acrior
Originally by: Quebber
(Miss AO Division 9 s.o)


anarchy online? **** dawg, we need a fistbump right here right now


Damn right! so many nights sitting around the grid terminal.

Aus Man Industries
Posted - 2011.08.09 21:52:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Well, without going into too much detail... Renters are generally incompetent scrubs that think they have done all they need to do by paying their rent each week/month. They are generally a liability in fleet ops. If you can even get them organised enough to fleet up they likely will bring absolutely godawful ships and fits and slow the gang down. Further they often make easy victims to roaming PVP gangs so the more renters you have, the more your region gets visited by skirmish gangs.

A lot of renters think they are buying the right to PVE in peace with a personal army on hand to squish any threats and will become petulant when asked to do anything else because ~ WE HAVE PAID OUR MONEY NOW LEAVE US ALONE ~


This about says it.
You don't help when the allaince needs it!
you increase the reward for hostiles in system
you want us to protect you.


Acrior
Posted - 2011.08.09 21:58:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Acrior on 09/08/2011 22:01:19
Originally by: Quebber
Originally by: Acrior
Originally by: Quebber
(Miss AO Division 9 s.o)


anarchy online? **** dawg, we need a fistbump right here right now


Damn right! so many nights sitting around the grid terminal.


Game's still going man but I tagged out
that temple of trainwrecks etc.
brings back memories of twinking characters all day long.

Quebber
Posted - 2011.08.09 22:29:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Aus Man Industries

This about says it.
You don't help when the allaince needs it!
you increase the reward for hostiles in system
you want us to protect you.




Only for some.
We would jump at the sound of a CTA or defence fleet!
We deal with hostiles in our system (enemies to kill without leaving system)
We defend ourselves a little help is nice but we don't want a "free" ride.

So to me that is the simple difference between a renter that brings more to an alliance than just money and the stereotypical renter which may or may not truly exist.




Ghoest
Posted - 2011.08.09 22:39:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank


A lot of renters think they are buying the right to PVE in peace with a personal army on hand to squish any threats and will become petulant when asked to do anything else because ~ WE HAVE PAID OUR MONEY NOW LEAVE US ALONE ~


Renters should think that. they are paying RENT.

Sweet Trader
Minmatar
The Hollow Men
Posted - 2011.08.09 22:45:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Quebber
Hi all,
I am fortunate to have found a pretty good alliance to rent from (Legion of xXDeathXx) the people are interesting and pretty much treat you with respect, all in all our renting experience as a small corp has been great.

But in the past, being a pvp grunt in some larger alliances especially western alliances the attitude towards renters stunk, I have no affiliation to the russian political in game wars but after alot of investigation and experience they were the only people I could even consider taking my friends to.

My past experience I saw alot of unused systems where a small corp of 10-20 people could flourish but the alliance in the area had no real interest in filling that void.

So why such a bad rap for renters ? We provide money for your war machine (I was renting two systems in Kavella = 805m per week yes that was alot and mainly due to wanting to try sov ect we pay alot less now), intel on the system maybe even if you are lucky people wanting to come join your pvp wars.

I understand we did not "fight and die" to gain that system but after the fighting is over what then ?


What does Marcellus Wallace look like?

Acrior
Posted - 2011.08.09 22:57:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Lady Spank


A lot of renters think they are buying the right to PVE in peace with a personal army on hand to squish any threats and will become petulant when asked to do anything else because ~ WE HAVE PAID OUR MONEY NOW LEAVE US ALONE ~


Renters should think that. they are paying RENT.

Ok get this. Scenario: I rent an apartment as a student in America (actually European but w/e). The Brits come to settle the whole civil war thing. They wreck my apartment.

Who do you think the landlord is gonna be ****ed at. Hint: not the redcoats.

Generals4
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.09 22:59:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Generals4 on 09/08/2011 23:00:11
Edited by: Generals4 on 09/08/2011 23:00:01
Originally by: Aus Man Industries
Originally by: Lady Spank
Well, without going into too much detail... Renters are generally incompetent scrubs that think they have done all they need to do by paying their rent each week/month. They are generally a liability in fleet ops. If you can even get them organised enough to fleet up they likely will bring absolutely godawful ships and fits and slow the gang down. Further they often make easy victims to roaming PVP gangs so the more renters you have, the more your region gets visited by skirmish gangs.

A lot of renters think they are buying the right to PVE in peace with a personal army on hand to squish any threats and will become petulant when asked to do anything else because ~ WE HAVE PAID OUR MONEY NOW LEAVE US ALONE ~


This about says it.
You don't help when the allaince needs it!
you increase the reward for hostiles in system
you want us to protect you.




Than don't rent your space.
I mean if you rent your space knowing they're scrubs and than complain about you're pretty much a scrub yourself.

If those who own the space want renters to defend their space than just add that as condition on top of the payments. Otherwise it's your own damn fault.

I mean it's like complaining someone bought an item from you for the price you asked and didn't ask you if it would be ok if he'd pay more....

Acrior
Posted - 2011.08.09 23:00:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Generals4
Originally by: Aus Man Industries
Originally by: Lady Spank
Well, without going into too much detail... Renters are generally incompetent scrubs that think they have done all they need to do by paying their rent each week/month. They are generally a liability in fleet ops. If you can even get them organised enough to fleet up they likely will bring absolutely godawful ships and fits and slow the gang down. Further they often make easy victims to roaming PVP gangs so the more renters you have, the more your region gets visited by skirmish gangs.

A lot of renters think they are buying the right to PVE in peace with a personal army on hand to squish any threats and will become petulant when asked to do anything else because ~ WE HAVE PAID OUR MONEY NOW LEAVE US ALONE ~


This about says it.
You don't help when the allaince needs it!
you increase the reward for hostiles in system
you want us to protect you.




Than don't rent your space.
I mean if you rent your space knowing they're scrubs and than complain about you're pretty much a scrub yourself.

If those who own the space want renters to defend their space than just add that as condition on top of the payments. Otherwise it's your own damn fault.

I mean it's like complaining someone bought an item for you for the price you asked and did ask you if it would be ok if he'd pay more....

the whole point was that renters are treated as third (if even that) class citizens
which is true
because they don't do much for the alliance

Generals4
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.09 23:10:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Generals4 on 09/08/2011 23:10:00
Originally by: Acrior
Originally by: Generals4
Originally by: Aus Man Industries
Originally by: Lady Spank
Well, without going into too much detail... Renters are generally incompetent scrubs that think they have done all they need to do by paying their rent each week/month. They are generally a liability in fleet ops. If you can even get them organised enough to fleet up they likely will bring absolutely godawful ships and fits and slow the gang down. Further they often make easy victims to roaming PVP gangs so the more renters you have, the more your region gets visited by skirmish gangs.

A lot of renters think they are buying the right to PVE in peace with a personal army on hand to squish any threats and will become petulant when asked to do anything else because ~ WE HAVE PAID OUR MONEY NOW LEAVE US ALONE ~


This about says it.
You don't help when the allaince needs it!
you increase the reward for hostiles in system
you want us to protect you.




Than don't rent your space.
I mean if you rent your space knowing they're scrubs and than complain about you're pretty much a scrub yourself.

If those who own the space want renters to defend their space than just add that as condition on top of the payments. Otherwise it's your own damn fault.

I mean it's like complaining someone bought an item for you for the price you asked and did ask you if it would be ok if he'd pay more....

the whole point was that renters are treated as third (if even that) class citizens
which is true
because they don't do much for the alliance


That doesn't make them third class citizens. It makes them good EVE players. Doing what they want and what they're supposed to.

Why should someone force himself, against his will, to do things not even demanded from him for the service provided to him?

I didn't know in EVE you had to do charity to be a 1st class citizen.



Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only