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blankseplocked New Energy Implant Set
 
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Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.08.09 05:47:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Barbie D0ll on 26/08/2011 20:58:45
Edited by: Barbie D0ll on 24/08/2011 02:27:32
Edited by: Barbie D0ll on 24/08/2011 02:27:20
Kojima's energy implants
Comes in Lowgrade an Highgrade set
copypaste stats from slave set but for capacitor capacity

[pre-asked questions and answers]
Q: wont 30% or 50% addional cap capacity be OP?
A: the slave set gives 30% (low grade) or 50% (high grade) ammount of Armor, the crystal set gives about 30% more tank, and it doesn't matter what you have when you get blobbed and killed, or suicide ganked in HS for that matter

Q: It's imba because it allows people to have permarun fits that should not be allowed to work
A: everything dies to neuts and/or alpha fleets

Q: but this will be imba for sub-cap pilots!
A: pod them

Q: why cap capacity?
A: well, supercapital pilots have slave sets and RR, sub-cap pilots have crystal sets and RR, and the local active armor tank guys just have cruddy boosters, gang links can be used for a player doing PVE, but it will be easier for pilots who exchange the opportunity for burst tank or a massive armor HP for the ability to permatank locally

Q: why the name "Kojima"?
A: a word that came off the top of my mind, do you have a better name for the set?
[/pre-asked questions and answers]

Thur Barbek
Posted - 2011.08.09 18:26:00 - [2]
 

Logistics would go crazy...

Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.08.09 18:41:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Thur Barbek
Logistics would go crazy...


do tell Twisted Evil

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.09 22:39:00 - [4]
 

We have more than enough cap implants/rigs/mods already.

So, no.

Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.08.23 04:58:00 - [5]
 

bump

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.08.23 06:50:00 - [6]
 

mmm, uber triage carrier of doom. I support this, it's no more overpowered than a slave set.

Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.08.23 07:10:00 - [7]
 

It'll make supercaps even more mobile then they currently are. Don't forget, you need 70% cap to make a jump. This would let supercaps jump far too frequently without compromising tank.

Daedalus Arcova
Gallente
Havoc Violence and Chaos
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.08.23 10:04:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Sir Substance
It'll make supercaps even more mobile then they currently are. Don't forget, you need 70% cap to make a jump. This would let supercaps jump far too frequently without compromising tank.


Not really. You're forgetting the opportunity cost of a set of these 'Kojimas' is a set of HG Slaves. That makes a massive difference to a supercap's EHP.

That said, capacitor capacity might be a better bonus to give. Still helps with staying cap stable, or the amount of cap you have available, but doesn't do anything to help people jump quicker.

Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.08.24 02:27:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Barbie D0ll on 24/08/2011 02:28:06
Edited for cap capacity instead of Cap recharge, ty for posting with helpful content

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.08.24 02:43:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Daedalus Arcova
Originally by: Sir Substance
It'll make supercaps even more mobile then they currently are. Don't forget, you need 70% cap to make a jump. This would let supercaps jump far too frequently without compromising tank.


Not really. You're forgetting the opportunity cost of a set of these 'Kojimas' is a set of HG Slaves. That makes a massive difference to a supercap's EHP.

That said, capacitor capacity might be a better bonus to give. Still helps with staying cap stable, or the amount of cap you have available, but doesn't do anything to help people jump quicker.


But everyone and their mom have an holding alt which now makes it easier.

Nezumiiro Noneko
Posted - 2011.08.24 02:56:00 - [11]
 

I'll go ot for a sec and say nerf slaves lol (only because crystal no worky on the big boy ships :( ).



Except for the cap/jump issue....not seeing any glairing problems. the caps and supers...non-active tank favored anyway. Not seeing this mod change that. Enough vampire amarr would still drain this (or the capacitor killing bomb to do it safer) so not seeing active tanking becoming the new fotm with this.


Might cahge the face of smaller ship pvp like snakes do... but not a bad thing. The same ole fill utlity high with nos/neut cookie cutter fit needs to not be so cookie cutter. Guy wants to run these in a frigate or cruise double repped/boosted...breaking that tank will be annnoying as hell but....would add to the pleasure of going for his pod if/when ship goes boom lol.


Even comes in lg flavor...for the cheaper peeps like me lol.

Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.08.25 20:17:00 - [12]
 

bumping my idea

zljuka
Posted - 2011.08.25 22:57:00 - [13]
 

three words why this shouldn't be done - capstable solo basilisk.

Logical Chaos
The Ankou
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.08.26 00:34:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sir Substance
It'll make supercaps even more mobile then they currently are. Don't forget, you need 70% cap to make a jump. This would let supercaps jump far too frequently without compromising tank.


Quoting because of ******iation.

50% more capacitor will not let you get to 71% cap faster.

Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.08.26 08:33:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: zljuka
three words why this shouldn't be done - capstable solo basilisk.

and this is bad how?

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.08.26 09:34:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Barbie D0ll
Originally by: zljuka
three words why this shouldn't be done - capstable solo basilisk.

and this is bad how?


well its bad because it would tip the balance of logistics . . . right now, theyre fairly well balanced (except for the oneiros, but its gallente, and apparently everything gallente sub-cap must suck.) But this would basically make the guardian and basilisk the only logistics used instead of used 80% of the time.

My problem with the proposal is the effect it would have on PvE, specifically tanking level 4 missions would not only be trivial, it would involve functionally 0 less risk because the odds of being podded in high sec are totally less than minimal

Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.08.26 19:54:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Sigras
My problem with the proposal is the effect it would have on PvE, specifically tanking level 4 missions would not only be trivial, it would involve functionally 0 less risk because the odds of being podded in high sec are totally less than minimal

lg alpha 30
lg beta 35
lg delta 89
lg epsilon 147
lg gamma 75
lg omega 288
total LG cost 664 mil

alpha 92
beta 131
delta 270
epsilon 380
gamma 175
omega 940
total HG cost 1,988 mil

cost for rattlesnake 551 mil

a set of LG implants will cost MORE and perform LESS than what it costs to buy a rattlesnake which is infamous for its tank and makes a joke tanking lvl 4s anyways
the implants for a cap stable basi would cost 6x over the cost of the basi.
oh, and I almost forgot the pimpfit fortress tengu that tanks 2k+ omnidamage

people can already tank lvl 4s with ease, either DPS tanking, speed tanking, active/passive tanking, and eve is a game that ENCOURAGES people to have alts, and any lvl 4 with a RR or DPS alt quickly becomes a joke anyways

did I miss anything?

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.08.26 20:21:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Barbie D0ll
lg alpha 30
lg beta 35
lg delta 89
lg epsilon 147
lg gamma 75
lg omega 288
total LG cost 664 mil

alpha 92
beta 131
delta 270
epsilon 380
gamma 175
omega 940
total HG cost 1,988 mil

cost for rattlesnake 551 mil

a set of LG implants will cost MORE and perform LESS than what it costs to buy a rattlesnake which is infamous for its tank and makes a joke tanking lvl 4s anyways
the implants for a cap stable basi would cost 6x over the cost of the basi.
oh, and I almost forgot the pimpfit fortress tengu that tanks 2k+ omnidamage

people can already tank lvl 4s with ease, either DPS tanking, speed tanking, active/passive tanking, and eve is a game that ENCOURAGES people to have alts, and any lvl 4 with a RR or DPS alt quickly becomes a joke anyways

did I miss anything?


First, there is no way to regulate the price of the implants, that may be the projected or desired cost, but once theyre on the market, it will take several drop changes to get them where you wanted them.

Second im just going to assume you dont run missions, because in missions its not about how much you can tank, its about how much damage you do put out.

Take a Machariel (perhaps the best mission running ship in the game) or the Vargur (IMHO its only competition) they both use cap rigs/mods to keep their shield tank going while they kill stuff, but if they didnt have to do that, they could use more things like target painters or MWDs (yes they work in most missions now) to do more damage.

Lastly, the problem with your example is that an energy set and a rattlesnake are not mutually exclusive; its not about having a good ship or an energy set; the problem comes when you have a good ship and an energy set.


Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.08.26 20:38:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Barbie D0ll on 26/08/2011 20:51:46
Originally by: Sigras

First, there is no way to regulate the price of the implants, that may be the projected or desired cost, but once theyre on the market, it will take several drop changes to get them where you wanted them.

Second im just going to assume you dont run missions, because in missions its not about how much you can tank, its about how much damage you do put out.

Take a Machariel (perhaps the best mission running ship in the game) or the Vargur (IMHO its only competition) they both use cap rigs/mods to keep their shield tank going while they kill stuff, but if they didnt have to do that, they could use more things like target painters or MWDs (yes they work in most missions now) to do more damage.

Lastly, the problem with your example is that an energy set and a rattlesnake are not mutually exclusive; its not about having a good ship or an energy set; the problem comes when you have a good ship and an energy set.


All I can say is that its an opportunity cost, a Machariel could use an energy set, or it could use a halo, snake, or crystal set for that matter. and some people already have cap stable setups, they could use any of those to negate damage, and as a result, tank it better.
or they could run lvl 5s in low/null in a carrier, or god forbid run sanctums all day in an Ishtar.

Edit: I run lvl 4s in a 4 heatsink navy apoc, or a sniper setup with AB (130 KM out), or a 4 hardener 2 heatsink permatank setup

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.08.26 22:01:00 - [20]
 

This idea is good if you take caps and supercaps out of equation.

I say pirate implant sets should not work on caps and supercaps at all. The shield tanking ones already get no benefit from Crystals, why should armor tanking ones get full benefit?

Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.08.26 22:10:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Barbie D0ll on 26/08/2011 22:10:57
Originally by: Ephemeron
This idea is good if you take caps and supercaps out of equation.

I say pirate implant sets should not work on caps and supercaps at all. The shield tanking ones already get no benefit from Crystals, why should armor tanking ones get full benefit?


I think crystals should work on caps and supercaps, anything that local tanks usually dies anyways in the capital ship department

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.08.28 09:03:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Barbie D0ll
Edited by: Barbie D0ll on 26/08/2011 22:10:57
Originally by: Ephemeron
This idea is good if you take caps and supercaps out of equation.

I say pirate implant sets should not work on caps and supercaps at all. The shield tanking ones already get no benefit from Crystals, why should armor tanking ones get full benefit?


I think crystals should work on caps and supercaps, anything that local tanks usually dies anyways in the capital ship department


I agree, shield tanked cap ships need the buff . . . but I dont really think this will do it . . .

Yes, im well aware that shield ships already have the crystal set, what im afraid of is something equally ridiculous on the armor tanking side of things! in my experience, snakes and halos dont really help you all that much in missions because youre usually webbed to jita and back anyway, but imagine if you could drop two of the cap rechargers on your navy apoc and replace them with target painters?

Heck, even a ratting vindicator or ratting Kronos setup may be viable doing insanity DPS, it would just make things too easy.

Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.08.29 02:48:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Sigras

I agree, shield tanked cap ships need the buff . . . but I dont really think this will do it . . .

Yes, im well aware that shield ships already have the crystal set, what im afraid of is something equally ridiculous on the armor tanking side of things! in my experience, snakes and halos dont really help you all that much in missions because youre usually webbed to jita and back anyway, but imagine if you could drop two of the cap rechargers on your navy apoc and replace them with target painters?

Heck, even a ratting vindicator or ratting Kronos setup may be viable doing insanity DPS, it would just make things too easy.


stupid questions: who rats in a kronos? and why rat in a vindi when mach does it better?
it doesn't matter how much DPS you do if you cant kill a single SB, or god forbid, said SB drops a covert cyno 5km away from your ratting kronos or vinid, with the recent addition of "lagging out trying to warp your pod" there will be more than enough time for them to lock and destroy someone's pod, and said person now has to
1. update clone
2. buy implants
3. new ship w/ fittings
4. explain to his overlords why he was ratting in an expensive ship with expensive implants with a cloakly hostile in system
5. rat some more in a t1 ship to pay for everything including the "membership fee" to his overlords before its due assuming he didn't blow it all on implants and fancy ship w/ fancy equipment

if it did happen to said person, he would have lost a minimum 2 bil


Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.08.29 21:03:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Barbie D0ll
Originally by: Sigras

I agree, shield tanked cap ships need the buff . . . but I dont really think this will do it . . .

Yes, im well aware that shield ships already have the crystal set, what im afraid of is something equally ridiculous on the armor tanking side of things! in my experience, snakes and halos dont really help you all that much in missions because youre usually webbed to jita and back anyway, but imagine if you could drop two of the cap rechargers on your navy apoc and replace them with target painters?

Heck, even a ratting vindicator or ratting Kronos setup may be viable doing insanity DPS, it would just make things too easy.


stupid questions: who rats in a kronos? and why rat in a vindi when mach does it better?
it doesn't matter how much DPS you do if you cant kill a single SB, or god forbid, said SB drops a covert cyno 5km away from your ratting kronos or vinid, with the recent addition of "lagging out trying to warp your pod" there will be more than enough time for them to lock and destroy someone's pod, and said person now has to
1. update clone
2. buy implants
3. new ship w/ fittings
4. explain to his overlords why he was ratting in an expensive ship with expensive implants with a cloakly hostile in system
5. rat some more in a t1 ship to pay for everything including the "membership fee" to his overlords before its due assuming he didn't blow it all on implants and fancy ship w/ fancy equipment

if it did happen to said person, he would have lost a minimum 2 bil


Ok, lets try this argument again without the straw man.

ok, what I clearly meant were level 4s because thats what we were talking about before.

Level 4s in high sec are completely safe and who knows, with the crazy bonus to cap regen you'd get from having a 50% bigger cap, maybe some crazy fittings doing even more DPS than a mach will come out.

Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.08.30 05:00:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Logical Chaos
Originally by: Sir Substance
It'll make supercaps even more mobile then they currently are. Don't forget, you need 70% cap to make a jump. This would let supercaps jump far too frequently without compromising tank.


Quoting because of ******iation.

50% more capacitor will not let you get to 71% cap faster.


When I posted, OP was still talking about recharge time. You might notice the large number of edits to his post.

Try adding more dots to your alliance name, perhaps dots = intellegance?

You'll need at least twenty more.

Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.09.04 00:12:00 - [26]
 

bumping my idea


 

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