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blankseplocked PI Factory Planet Routing Issue
 
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Dalloway Jones
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.08.08 23:54:00 - [1]
 

So I recently set up a factory planet with my main that is producing T2.3 and 4 goods from T1 goods made with alts or other planets. Apparently I decided I really like clicking.

My problem is I designed it with a launchpad in the center and the processors radiating outward like spokes of a wheel around it. Each specific T2 good I am creating there has 4 processors each linked to each other in a line with the inner most one connected to the launchpad and the goods from the outer ring having to go through the other processors.

The T3 goods are 2 processors arranged in the same way with one inner and one outer ring. The problem is that the outer ring is not getting the full amount of mats needed. What happens is the outer processor gets the mats and starts making the product and then instead of sending the next group of mats to the outer processor the outer one gets them and puts them in "storage". So the outer factory is on a 1 hour production cycle with the second set of mats just sitting there for an hour when they could be used by the outer factory.

Is there a way around this or is the system just too frustratingly stupid to ever work af full efficiency. If I had set up my factories so they each had an independent link to the storage would they route appropriately or would one factory always hog the materials?

At this point I am starting to wish the little mercs from Dust would just show up, shoot me, and take my planets away from me so I could do something that is actually fun instead of something that is making me nerdrage.

Devemaal
Posted - 2011.08.09 10:22:00 - [2]
 

First,, Im terrible at english writing so i hope my explanation makes sense.

It does not matter if your factories have a direct link to the launchpad or if the are connected in series, if you route from one of the "outer" factories directly to the pad the other ones will transmit the goods to the pad.
I always route all factories to the launchpad, then go in to the routes on the launchpad and route the incoming gods to the factory that needs that.

Also when you route from incoming routes to the factories it does not matter witch one of the incoming routes you rout from or the amount of materials the incoming route gives.
Even tho you are routing from the incoming routes the launchpad seams to treat it as transmitting material from the storage.

As I said i always route it like that and then go over all factories and check that all have one outgoing route and that it has one incoming for all the materials it needs.
Then it should work, hopefully.


Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.09 10:33:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Devemaal
First,, Im terrible at english writing so i hope my explanation makes sense.

It does not matter if your factories have a direct link to the launchpad or if the are connected in series, if you route from one of the "outer" factories directly to the pad the other ones will transmit the goods to the pad.
I always route all factories to the launchpad, then go in to the routes on the launchpad and route the incoming gods to the factory that needs that.

Also when you route from incoming routes to the factories it does not matter witch one of the incoming routes you rout from or the amount of materials the incoming route gives.
Even tho you are routing from the incoming routes the launchpad seams to treat it as transmitting material from the storage.

As I said i always route it like that and then go over all factories and check that all have one outgoing route and that it has one incoming for all the materials it needs.
Then it should work, hopefully.




Pretty much this.

I guess your "spokes" look sort of like this

P2 <--> P1 <--> LP <--> P1 <--> P2

where
"P2" is the adv factory
"P1" is a basic factory
"LP" is the launchpad
"<-->" is a link

the P1 mfg chains look like this
LP (1x P0 item) -> P1 -> LP

P2 mfg chains need to look like this
LP (2x P1 items) -> P2 -> LP

The only thing you have to worry about is making sure that the launchpad will have enough space to handle the full output of all factories at once, so you don't lose stuff for there being no space...

If you watch the factories at the end of a cycle, it'll actually look like the P1 factories dump their output directly into one of the P2 factories (assuming there's space)...

Dalloway Jones
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.08.09 21:51:00 - [4]
 

If you have 2 Tier 3 factories on your planet and don't have a surplus of Tier 2 (i.e. the tier 2 is being made and trickling in 20 at a time) then all the mats go ONLY to the first factory.

So the first factory is basically taking double the amount of mats and holding the extras while it is in production. The second factory sits there empty wasting a cycle because the mats it needs are on hold in the other factory.

The fact that a factory holds stores mats instead of just using the ones it needs is so mind numbingly stupid I can't imagine why they did it this way.

Does anyone have a work around to this or should you just never have T2 and T3 factories on the same factory planet?

Drahma Daerie
Posted - 2011.08.10 01:29:00 - [5]
 

Yes, they do 'hold' the next cycles mats while they work on the current cycle. The key to success is to have more than two full cycles mats available in the storage unit. You need to make sure you don't have more final assembly factories than you have adv ones to feed it. This varies by P4 (there are 4,6 or 9 P2 configurations). Lets take the 6 P2 one.

One P4
Six P3s each generating 3 units/cycle (doubled because the P4 needs 6 per cycle)
Six P2s types feeding two types per P3

If you have 480 units of each P2 in the LP, then the P3s will grab two cycles worth and crunch on them for an hour until they deliver the 18 needed by the P4. Once it starts it will continue as the cycles sync until a full 24 P4 units are created.

Assuming you have increased the *capacity* of the links to the 'inner' factories in your setup, the mats should flow correctly to the 'outer' ring as long as the ratio of factories is correct.

Dalloway Jones
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.08.10 09:39:00 - [6]
 

It is a completely ******ed mechanic considering how many resources are needed to make a single T4 product. Having to build 50% more factories than are technically needed makes me want to just carpet bomb all my PI planets into oblivion.

Or just make rocket fuel. Maybe I'll do that.

Devemaal
Posted - 2011.08.10 10:01:00 - [7]
 

You don't need more factories then are "technically needed".
As Drahma says a p4 factory needs 6 P3 (of one type) and a advanced only produces 3 per cycle. Its like that for all stages in the PI manufacturing.
But you have already figured that out obviously.

I don't really see what the problem is, are you only putting enough materials in the LP for a single unit of P4? If so why?

Dalloway Jones
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.08.10 10:35:00 - [8]
 

Well by technically needed I mean it takes 4 tier 2 factories to supply 2 tier 3 factories but because factories "hold" mats I need 6. Annoying thing to have to deal with considering each of these factories costs money and uses up power. I'm not making a single T4 at a time but because of this mechanic instead of my T4 factory going every hour it is more like every 2 hours because there is a hold up.

Just annoying to lay everything out and figure out the math (and maths make my head hurt) and get everything to fit just right and then "Oh crap turns out your math was wrong and pointless because of a nonsensical game mechanic.

Devemaal
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:15:00 - [9]
 

I have never come into the problem that i need more factories because they store mats for the next cycle.

And you need four P2 factories to supply one P3, if it needs two P2 and not three as some do.
For example:
Data Chips needs 10x Supertensile Plastics and 10x Microfiber Shielding
Two factories make Supertensile Plastics from 40x Biomass and 40x Oxygen
Two factories make Microfiber Shielding from 40x Silicon and 40x Industrial Fibers
So you need a total of 1+4 factories to make a P3 (1+6 if it uses three different P2s).
And to make one data chip you need 80 of each P1.

I use this site to get a better overview of everything.
UniWiki - Planetary Commodities

Dalloway Jones
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.08.10 19:49:00 - [10]
 

Are you sure you haven't run into this problem before? Or maybe you don't build your T2 and T3 on the same planet. If I was just dropping all the T2 mats in a launchpad on a T3 factory planet it wouldn't be an issue because there would be ample mats and when the first factory was filled (with two sets of mats by the way) there would be enough left over to stock the next factory.

My problem is that the T2 mats are being built on the same planet with T3 so the mats are doled out one at a time. Since I have 4 T2 factories for each item four are created and as they move down that conveyor belt from T2 factory to launchpad to T3 factory all four of the mats are going to the first factory.

I bet for people who just set up and come back the next day they aren't even aware this is an issue. Right now the only way to work around it that I see is to move all my T3 factories and my T4 factory to their own separate planet. So annoying.

Devemaal
Posted - 2011.08.10 21:00:00 - [11]
 

Okay i see what you mean now, sorry for being dense.
However this should only be a problem on the first and the last cycle of the batch right? and if its not something is wrong.

As i said i prefer to link everything through the LP to make sure that nothing is lost. But how about if you link two P2 factories directly to one P3 and the other two to the other P3 factory?
Or maybe that is what you have done and the factory that has the "transmitting" link is stealing the mats?

Dalloway Jones
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.08.10 22:50:00 - [12]
 

I definitely route it from the launchpad I wouldn't risk losing mats by linking directly to the factory. The only thing I can think of is that maybe if I had it arranged so that the mats didn't have to transit through one factory to get to the other maybe it would distribute things more evenly. But there is no way I am tearing everything down just to experiment with that and I suspect the stupid UI would still just send stuff to one over the other.

The issue is really the factories storing mats that then just sit there for an hour. I can think of no good reason for them to do that. The more I do PI the more I see glaring faults with it and I guess this is just another one.

As I said before I imagine a lot of people just set their system up and don't even realize this is an issue. If you really study what each of the buildings in your supply line is doing you may be in for a nasty shock that they are not performing the way you think they should be.


 

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