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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.08.16 15:05:00 - [31]
 

ships should not require sp to fly so idiots can undock and lose officer fitted golems to 100k sp rifters.

how about no

-100000000/10

Kelevana
Posted - 2011.08.16 21:50:00 - [32]
 

But what you guys / gals are not getting is, whether you buy a toon via the char bazaar or buy SP, either way you are buying SP. Since you don't want to wait the time to train it. Just this way, people get to keep their mains, which a lot want to do.

and the day a faction fitted golem losses to a max SP rifter is the day I quit this game.Laughing That Golem pilot would have to be a total idiot.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Posted - 2011.08.16 22:17:00 - [33]
 

Here's an idea that might be a bit more palatable:

sell attribute and skill point remaps.

A lot of people (like myself) wasted a lot of skill points and remaps early on as we were learning the game. I'd trade a PLEX in if it meant I could remap 1-2 million SPs and free up the skills I realize now that I never had a use for.

Six months from a remap? Want to get one early because you wasted yours when you were a clueless noob? That'll be two PLEX.

(prices are completely made up and certainly negotiable)

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.16 23:29:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 16/08/2011 23:31:50
Originally by: Kelevana
But what you guys / gals are not getting is, whether you buy a toon via the char bazaar or buy SP, either way you are buying SP. Since you don't want to wait the time to train it. Just this way, people get to keep their mains, which a lot want to do.

and the day a faction fitted golem losses to a max SP rifter is the day I quit this game.Laughing That Golem pilot would have to be a total idiot.


What YOU are not getting, is that this same tired argument (character bazaar) has been brought up and shot down a gabazillion times.
Please do read the other more mature threads on this very tired topic. There is one on the front page of this forum (as of this writing) so you have no excuse! :)

EDIT
Let Me Google That For You
MT for SP... again

Nariya Kentaya
Coalition Of Gentlemen.
Posted - 2011.08.17 02:05:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Flapkonijn
Originally by: Roonia
$$$ -->10 x PLEX ---> ISK ----> BUY CAHRACTER ---> voila skills for money. Not only 1 skill, but I can buy A WHOLE SET OF SKILLS.[/b]
You forget something about yout little step system,

Supply and demand... you still need people to train up the chars to get to the point of selling one and find someone who like it.

If everyone would buy the 100mil chars then the demand goes up and supply goes down... meaning the once 80bil char goes up to 160bil.

All the isk spend is mostly still generated through plex and in-game revenue.
Which keeps it all still within game mechanics.

With buy SPS for $$$$ with RL money you would replace isk entirely making the rich just uber titan fleets.

SO sorry i say NO to =)


exactly, even if you buy a character by plexing, the money you got from buying the plex was still generated in-game, its just changing ahnds, if you buy SP directly, your taking isk out of the equation and are making value appear out of thin air.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2011.08.17 04:18:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Kelevana
But what you guys / gals are not getting is, whether you buy a toon via the char bazaar or buy SP, either way you are buying SP. Since you don't want to wait the time to train it. Just this way, people get to keep their mains, which a lot want to do.

and the day a faction fitted golem losses to a max SP rifter is the day I quit this game.Laughing That Golem pilot would have to be a total idiot.


Too bad... I'm quite sure its happened... in-fact it happened about a year or 2 ago when someone bought a char with 2 Rorquals... fully fitted... and tried to jam the thing through a stargate. The neighbors where quite thrilled and laughing so hard they barely had a chance to catch the 2nd one due to the fact they where in need of oxygen.


So yeah... quit the game...because your obviously too foolish to think before you say such foolish things... jokingly or not... its happened in EVE.. repeatedly... just wait for those killboard links to show up... I'm sure someone would be more than happy to slap you across the face for your ignorance.

daisy cutta
Posted - 2011.08.17 10:49:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: daisy cutta on 17/08/2011 10:51:08



Originally by: FloppieTheBanjoClown

A lot of people (like myself) wasted a lot of skill points and remaps early on as we were learning the game. I'd trade a PLEX in if it meant I could remap 1-2 million SPs and free up the skills I realize now that I never had a use for.



Whilst I understand that you may feel that you wasted time on training that you now feel you did not need

I dont feel that ppl should be able to pay to move skill points around

Also as your char grows and develops you will find that those skills will be usefull

Imo no training is wasted training, at some stage you will need those skills


raker
Posted - 2011.08.17 11:04:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Kelevana
And them bitter vets will still have a huge lead over newer players in SP and skill wise. YARRRR!!


The "bitter vets" as you put it, have spent years paying for this game and have spent alot of time geting the skills

Thats why they do have a lead over new chars, its time and effort put into the game

If you dont like that, then go play a game where you are instantly uber and will very quickly get bored of it


Frank Truck
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:49:00 - [39]
 

I always thought this thread was a joke or troll, but I see some people are serious Rolling Eyes

NO

NO

&

NO!! Shocked

Lord Wulfengheist
Amarr
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:36:00 - [40]
 

I for one think this is a smashingly brilliant idea!

While we're at, let's add this module. It requires no fitting, and takes any slot. When you find yourself in combat, you can turn this module on. What it does is increases your DPS. The module is tied to your credit card. You pay 1 cent per point of DPS extra per second, meaning it costs a dollar per second for 100 extra DPS. There is no limit to how much DPS you can add. That way, you never have to think about combat again and can just engage whatever in whatever, because it's not like anyone wants to expend effort at this game.

Now, you said your idea would let people keep their mains because that's what most want. I got news for you buddy. That argument doesn't make sense. Name one instance where someone was so poor they sold off their main account to support, uh, their main account? People sell off alts they've trained. Anyone selling a character doesn't give a crap about that character anymore. Ah, wait. I get your point. People are selling off their main to buy a better character, is that it? Let's put it this way, the average eve player is no where near as lazy as you. They simply, aren't...

May I ask, then, if you're going to give a crap about the game after you've bought this SP? Methinks not. This suggestion entirely cheapens the game.

BUT BUT THE CHARACTER BAZAAR OMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!!!

Time and effort still goes into those characters, they actually mean something, even if its to the seller.

tl;dr HTFU or GTFO


Sarrgon
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.08.17 22:52:00 - [41]
 

Well think of the KB's and market according to you's, a bunch of noobs flying caps and faction fitted T2 BS's around that not know how to use them, bunch of easy kills for you bitter vets while the economy gets a big boostLaughing

But seriously, Why do you guys and gals think so many other MMO's have something similar to this in their game? So many don't start up a game that has been out for years cause of the gap between newer players and vet players. They simply go to another game that is new so has something similar to this already going.

So if you pilots have your own way, most likely will lead to a slow death of Eve online as barely getting any new players and the normal attrition of people leaving the game.


P.S. You notice that most people favoring something like this usually speaks nicely without name calling and swearing (for the most part) but most of the people against it is always doing name calling and some swearing (for the most part). IMO, that goes a long way to tell us the age and maturity of the opposing sides Shocked

Lord Wulfengheist
Amarr
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
Posted - 2011.08.17 22:55:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Lord Wulfengheist on 17/08/2011 23:00:38
I'll take a slow death of EVE over a fast death when much of the "bitter vet" player base leaves.

Also, a passive aggressive moral highroad argument? Grow a pair and just call us a bunch of mudslingers. The knee jerk reaction that you're getting is because you are attacking the fundamental core of why so many people like eve - it's not an instant gratification game.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.17 23:17:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 17/08/2011 23:19:26
You silly noobs, mudslinger #36 here.
I'm actually only a < 10m toon so technically still a noob by your standards. So why am I arguing for the veterans? Because it takes less than 10 mil sp to do well in this game, it's real world experience that matters more. One of the selling points of eve.

By the way, you DO know the skill tree is exponential right? And everyone, new and old earns sp linearly right? So what that means for the mathematically challenged, is that the difference in "skill" quickly becomes less and less the higher up you go. You can't ever totally catchup to vets but you can get ever closer to them, I've heard up to 80% effectiveness. Which really boils down to choices in which skills to train. A vet can spend the 3 months training for Titan, in the mean time you overtake him in gunnery skills at the same time.

If you are still thinking in terms of WOW xp levels. Stop. Just stop.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2011.08.18 06:50:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Drake Draconis on 18/08/2011 07:01:59
Your complaining about catching up?


Your in the wrong game.

EVE isn't a racing game... go try Need For Speed if you want that.


EVE is a game of patience...practice...and ambition.

If you can't handle the heat... GTFO.

Because you'll never best someone by getting more SP's.

When you figure out its not a matter of SP's but one of practice and experience...now your getting somewhere.

But your too blinded by your pocket book as a solution.
Waste of time if you ask me.

Do you always grease the vendor if you don't get what you want?

Won't work here... I'm sure everyone here would accept donations however.YARRRR!!

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.18 12:11:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Velicitia on 18/08/2011 12:18:17
Originally by: Sarrgon
Well think of the KB's and market according to you's, a bunch of noobs flying caps and faction fitted T2 BS's around that not know how to use them, bunch of easy kills for you bitter vets while the economy gets a big boost


Losing a frig/cruiser is no fun, but you pick yourself back up (this is a good thing). Losing a 600m - 1b ship would pretty much make a rookie ragequit (this is a bad thing).

Originally by: Sarrgon
But seriously, Why do you guys and gals think so many other MMO's have something similar to this in their game? So many don't start up a game that has been out for years cause of the gap between newer players and vet players. They simply go to another game that is new so has something similar to this already going.


Other games don't have "passive" training. A brand new player can have a rifter at all L4 skills (per certificates) in 31d 12h or so. Certain stuff "required" for PVP will be absent (e.g. a point) ... but you can get L4 pointing skills in another 4-5 days or so. This 31 days of training gets you 80% of the SP/skill levels that are relevant to the Rifter (and, for the most part... all Minmatar frigates). You'll be approximately 10% less "effective" than if you had everything at L5.

Let's say you have 200 DPS and can tank 300 at L4 across the board. Is it really worth 1-2 years to get yourself up to 220 DPS and a 330 tank?

Or would your time be better spent by taking 2-3 weeks to step up from frig to cruiser (again at 80% of skill levels), and another month or two to get into a BS?

EVE is not a game where the "biggest" is necessarily the "best". I've flown before with "can barely fly it" ECM corpies (in frigs) who have saved my ass in deep hull by breaking the other guy's lock on me...

Yeah, having 40, 50, 80, 100m SP can be used for bragging to some degree... but how much of that SP can be used in a frigate fight?



Originally by: Sarrgon
P.S. You notice that most people favoring something like this usually speaks nicely without name calling and swearing (for the most part) but most of the people against it is always doing name calling and some swearing (for the most part). IMO, that goes a long way to tell us the age and maturity of the opposing sides Shocked


I am dead-set against SP for MT. It's a terrible idea that will cheapen the game and, most likely, cause the "bittervet" players to leave. Turnover for the people who just buy what they want will likely be exceptionally high... since there's nothing "keeping" them in the game (in the sense that if it takes me a month to train something... I may start hanging out with other people... those people keep me around... ).


Character Bazaar is different -- yes the buyer gets "instant SP", but that SP was still earned through the time/effort of the seller...


El Geo
Group 2
Posted - 2011.08.19 22:28:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: El Geo on 19/08/2011 22:30:19
i dont see anything wrong with paying for a months worth of sp if it costs the same as a months game time, the only bad thing would be the amount of greifers who would surely start dying to noobs - did i say bad thing?

if a player wants to pay for 3 years worth of sp using real money, hes paid the same as any player thats been playing for 3 years so whats your beef?

Lord Wulfengheist
Amarr
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
Posted - 2011.08.20 03:28:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: El Geo
Edited by: El Geo on 19/08/2011 22:30:19
i dont see anything wrong with paying for a months worth of sp if it costs the same as a months game time, the only bad thing would be the amount of greifers who would surely start dying to noobs - did i say bad thing?

if a player wants to pay for 3 years worth of sp using real money, hes paid the same as any player thats been playing for 3 years so whats your beef?


Because it took me 3 years of time and effort to get there. He did it for a paycheck.

How about this? You've been, or are attending college I assume, and we'll just say it cost you $80k. You now have the diploma you worked for after 4 years worth of effort.
Joe Shmoe goes to the same college and says "screw it, I don't want to go to class." He pays $80k and gets a diploma.

Did he earn it? No. Does he know anything? No. Paper says he does, so he gets a job. Should he have that job? Do I need to answer that?




FloppieTheBanjoClown
Posted - 2011.08.20 14:55:00 - [48]
 

Disclaimer before you read this: I'm not necessarily in favor of this idea. I wrote this after a conversation about whether or not is would be feasible and not ruin the game. Just an idea.

tl;dr:

The idea:

-1 PLEX = ~1.5 million SP
-Limit to one use per month to prevent instantly perfect toons.

Why:

-Other MMOs have level caps that limit the gap between young and old
-Skill gap confers significant advantage to older players
-Character bazaar already allows players to purchase skilled characters
-Newer players can become more useful to corps/alliances quickly

--------------------------------------------------------------

I've been playing Eve for about 15 months now. I have over 20 million skill points on my primary character. I own two alt accounts, each approaching or exceeding 20 million SP themselves. I say this first so that you have a frame of reference for my perspective.

Why it MIGHT work:

In every other MMO I know anything about, there is a hard cap to abilities. Your level 80 mage won't be level 81 until a new expansion opens up new skills and abilities. This means that most players in every other MMO that exists can reach "the top" at whatever pace they are willing to grind for experience. Once they've achieved the highest level, other priorities take over. There aren't people in WoW with level 400 paladins who have been leveling since day 1. This gives newer players the ability to one day achieve the same level as the best player.

In Eve, the top is so high up no one could have trained all the skills yet (evemon claims it will take 20 years, if I recall correctly--just mechanic, science, and electronics skills would take two months short of five years). I'm not advocating for an accessible cap; I'd just as soon see the skill set continue to expand so that there can never be a "perfect" character. I'm not suggesting Eve be like other games at all. I'm proposing that there be a mechanic which will allow newers players (yes, like myself) to gain ground on those who have been around for years.

As it stands most players with less than two years of game time are at a significant disadvantage in PVP because we lack the "all level 5" benefit older players have, where their superior skills give them superior firepower, defense, and ewar capabilities. In identically fit ships, with identically skilled pilots, the older pilot will always win, until you reach the point where it's possible for the younger to have "perfect" skills for the ship fitting.

I'm not asking to be able to pile on 100 million skill points tomorrow. That would be absurd, both in price and the results in-game. I'd suggest a monthly supply of skill points on the NEX, priced so that a PLEX would be worth somewhere around 1.5-2 million skill points. No more than one PLEX worth of SP could be bought in a given month, and if you skip a month you'd miss out on that opportunity. If you want to instantly have a fully-skilled character, that's what the bazaar is for.

Speaking of the bazaar: Yes I know this is a tired argument that's been done before. But it's part of the larger picture I'm trying to present here, that skill point microtransactions would not damage the game. If I'm willing to drop the cash on enough PLEX to purchase a 20 million SP toon, it stands to reason that a similar number of PLEX (I would say slightly more actually) could allow a player to get the skills they want immediately. This is different than the bazaar because I've invested a year in this toon and don't want to drop it and everything I've built around it just because I put together the isk to buy a DIFFERENT toon with the skill sets I want.

How does this fit in the storyline of the Eve universe? We can instantly transfer consciousness across the galaxy. We have neural implants to improve major attributes and confer increased abilities. It stands to reason that it would be possible to accelerate education.

(continued)

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Posted - 2011.08.20 14:58:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown on 20/08/2011 15:03:28
This isn't a game-breaking mechanic. It won't result in a massive crashing of the PLEX market and everyone having all the skills they want. What it will do is let you skip that 30-day level 5 skill that stands between you and that shiny new ship you've spent months working toward. It will allow newer players who have made the leap into big alliances to quickly improve when they find their skill set lacking. It will give players who have recently realized they noobishly wasted months training skills they didn't need an opportunity to take a leap in the right direction.

An added bonus is that this might, MIGHT drive up the price of PLEX, which makes illicit isk sales and the bots that drive them less profitable.

I've had two other ideas on this subject that might be worth considering:

-Selling attribute remaps. Let me trade in a PLEX to get a remap. This was my noobish mistake: remapping too many times trying to figure out what I wanted to do, and locking myself into a mediocre attribute mapping for a year. I'd have gladly turned in a PLEX to get an extra remap.

-Selling skill point remaps. Instead of selling skill points directly, give us the ability to "unlock" 2 million per PLEX so they can be reassigned. I've talked to a lot of people who say they would love to be able to remap all their industrial skills and other things they acquired in their early days of Eve, before they found whatever they've settled into as their corner of the game.

If you've been playing Eve for more than 3-4 years, probably none of this would affect you except in taking PLEX off the market. At that age, a couple million SP aren't as signficant to you. For some of us, though, they would make a WORLD of difference in what we can do.

added note: Seriously, I'm just putting these ideas out there for consideration and to make the debate more productive. This is how I would implement SP purchases if I had to, and an argument in favor of doing so. I do think there's some reason to at least think about this, but I'm not sold on the idea myself. If the system existed I would definitely use it from time to time to get through level 5 training that I needed to advance.

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.08.20 16:51:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown on 20/08/2011 15:03:28
This isn't a game-breaking mechanic. It won't result in a massive crashing of the PLEX market and everyone having all the skills they want.


You do know that a certain Null power block had a benefactor, who was an aluminum tycoon? Yeah he poured thousands of dollars in to the game to buy himself a win.

It did not pan out of course, he could not buy everyone the skills points to get everyone capitals.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.20 18:26:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Velicitia on 20/08/2011 18:26:09
Originally by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
The idea:

-1 PLEX = ~1.5 million SP
-Limit to one use per month to prevent instantly perfect toons.

Why:

-Other MMOs have level caps that limit the gap between young and old
-Skill gap confers significant advantage to older players
-Character bazaar already allows players to purchase skilled characters
-Newer players can become more useful to corps/alliances quickly



Why it won't work:
not all SP is applicable to everything.

Take, for example, an new toon with 8m SP, everything is in frigate combat (sans "forced" starting skills in something else); Now, they come up against an older toon with 80m SP, 60m of which is in industry/mining, and the other 20m spread out across a bunch of ship classes/guns/etc.

new guy -> Tristan, 8M SP available in Frigate Combat skills
old guy -> Kestrel, 75.5M useless SP (60M industry, 15.5M in Cruiser, BC, BS, cross-faction), 4,5M SP available for Caldari Frigate combat skills..


Hm, seems the new guy has a bit of an advantage, no?




FloppieTheBanjoClown
Posted - 2011.08.20 20:26:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Velicitia
Take, for example, an new toon with 8m SP, everything is in frigate combat (sans "forced" starting skills in something else); Now, they come up against an older toon with 80m SP, 60m of which is in industry/mining, and the other 20m spread out across a bunch of ship classes/guns/etc.

new guy -> Tristan, 8M SP available in Frigate Combat skills
old guy -> Kestrel, 75.5M useless SP (60M industry, 15.5M in Cruiser, BC, BS, cross-faction), 4,5M SP available for Caldari Frigate combat skills..

Hm, seems the new guy has a bit of an advantage, no?

Sure you can cherry-pick a few examples where players haven't developed any combat skills in years...or more likely invent them, because how often is someone with all those skills going to be out in a combat ship they don't really have the skills to fly well?

My point stands: all other things being equal, I can't hope to stand against someone with perfect combat skills. We could do the exact same things and they would win because their account is older than mine, allowing them to have the skills to deal more damage while having more HP.

I don't want to sound like I'm complaining "it's not fair." I don't expect it to be. I accept that there are people who have these skills and know that I can't stand in a fair fight, and I'm fine with that. But it is probably the most compelling argument for the ability to purchase skill points to accelerate training. And the longer Eve runs, the more some sort of mechanic will be needed for new players to not simply be overwhelmed by those with nine-digit SP counts. I love our little sandbox and all, but the wider the gap gets between the oldest players and the newest, the harder it gets for new players to feel like they have a chance at becoming something more than a minnow among sharks.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Posted - 2011.08.20 20:30:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown on 20/08/2011 15:03:28
This isn't a game-breaking mechanic. It won't result in a massive crashing of the PLEX market and everyone having all the skills they want.


You do know that a certain Null power block had a benefactor, who was an aluminum tycoon? Yeah he poured thousands of dollars in to the game to buy himself a win.

It did not pan out of course, he could not buy everyone the skills points to get everyone capitals.


Which is why I suggested limiting SP purchases to once a month in quantities that would represent maybe a 75% increase in rate of training. You could get that cap ship pilot ready faster, but it would still take a months just to be able to fly the ship, and longer still to train the fitting skills to have an all level 5 pilot.

Kali Omega
Immortalis Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.21 06:19:00 - [54]
 

These SP for cash threads are like STD's they keep coming back and you cant kill them! Dam you STD's!!!!!!!

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.08.21 12:08:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown on 20/08/2011 15:03:28
This isn't a game-breaking mechanic. It won't result in a massive crashing of the PLEX market and everyone having all the skills they want.


You do know that a certain Null power block had a benefactor, who was an aluminum tycoon? Yeah he poured thousands of dollars in to the game to buy himself a win.

It did not pan out of course, he could not buy everyone the skills points to get everyone capitals.


Which is why I suggested limiting SP purchases to once a month in quantities that would represent maybe a 75% increase in rate of training. You could get that cap ship pilot ready faster, but it would still take a months just to be able to fly the ship, and longer still to train the fitting skills to have an all level 5 pilot.


First off in most alliances you do not have 2000 to 5000 low sp mouth breathing ******s that can barely fly a rifter (Bort).

But if someone, that had the money, could effectively get a minimum of 10% of the alliance to have the skills to be a skill effective cap pilot. That would be a huge boost for the alliance to get an additional 200 to 500 new cap pilots using the average numbers I gave.

This creates your imbalance.

chanteel
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.22 00:41:00 - [56]
 

I like the proposal it's not a new idea but maybe its improperly approached.

It needs balance (not with our wallets) but with more of an ingame expanse.

Say a special line of missions is developed where u earn a certain type of lp. When you complete the set of missions you will have aquired enough of a certain lp to exchange it for sp from the npc mission provider. The lp store could have item requirements like the lp stores now this would be the case here. The requirements are 1 plex and a certain amount of lp from the mission a mission that would only be available only once a year.

I say plex because its now a tradeable game item and it generates income for expansions.



Example:
Mission: All mission are a(Solo type) this is for individuals
Missions: Choose 1 category and only 1 there are no repicks/redo and they only become available once a year similar to remaps. Once a mission is started it has an experation date.

LvL 1-1 room mission-easy and provides 1000 lps
LvL 2-2 rooms-moderate 2k lps
LvL 3-3 rooms-hard 3k lps
LvL 4-4 rooms-very Tough 4k lps
LvL 5-5 rooms-extremely Difficult 5k lps


LP STORE:

Requirements: 100 LP = 100k SP
50mil + 100 LP = 100k SP redeemable and allocatable (LP and SP never expire)
1plex + 1000 LP = 1mil SP
-plex + ---- LP = -mil SP
etc......
(Make the LP and SP game Tradable)
I put 50 mil in the first catagory to show a (rough estimate of tradable value) and also as an option to redeem it in small denominations. Plex could apply to redeem large quantity of LP.


The contents of this post is a gift to CCP.
(All figures used were mearly to present a plausable idea and not in anyway a stiff inexchangeble case of numerals.)
(All items of information are liable to a subjective view point.)
(All and any Ideas presented here are open and my be subject to crotique.)
(All ideas outlayed may be used by CCP and their consituants.)

Darius III
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.08.22 01:22:00 - [57]
 

No, sorry not even I will side with you on this one-even to troll. Also the bleach.

Chunicha
Posted - 2011.08.22 01:54:00 - [58]
 

Its been said by many other people on this thread already, but I wanted to add another voice for emphasis just in case CCP for some god awful reason thinks this would be a good idea...

No, no, hell no.

Confirmed that OP should go drink bleach.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.22 09:49:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Originally by: Velicitia
Take, for example, an new toon with 8m SP, everything is in frigate combat (sans "forced" starting skills in something else); Now, they come up against an older toon with 80m SP, 60m of which is in industry/mining, and the other 20m spread out across a bunch of ship classes/guns/etc.

new guy -> Tristan, 8M SP available in Frigate Combat skills
old guy -> Kestrel, 75.5M useless SP (60M industry, 15.5M in Cruiser, BC, BS, cross-faction), 4,5M SP available for Caldari Frigate combat skills..

Hm, seems the new guy has a bit of an advantage, no?

Sure you can cherry-pick a few examples where players haven't developed any combat skills in years...or more likely invent them, because how often is someone with all those skills going to be out in a combat ship they don't really have the skills to fly well?



Funny story mate, I CAN'T FLY COMBAT SHIPS WELL. Yet, I still find myself in them from time to time (mission to get standing, or tackle frig, or "I can sorta give some DPS... please Chribba don't let them shoot me!").

Originally by: FloppieTheBanjoClown

My point stands: all other things being equal, I can't hope to stand against someone with perfect combat skills. We could do the exact same things and they would win because their account is older than mine, allowing them to have the skills to deal more damage while having more HP.


I have a plan around here somewhere... you can be at level 4 (80% "max skills") in one month for a Rifter. No, you won't have "all" of the useful skills (it's missing web/point and other various things... I built it from the certificates recommended for said Rifter), but those take another few days at most.

The plan leaves you at most 5-10% behind a "max skills" pilot.

Rifter base stats:
Structure -- 336
Armour -- 351
Shield -- 391

So, you'll be down (at most, sans implants...)
Structure -- 33.6
Armour -- 35.1
Shield -- 39.1

total -- 107.8 HP

I don't have EFT here to check, but I'm pretty sure this amounts to about 1-3 seconds difference in survivability (yes, you can get 50+ DPS off a rifter... and that's probably generously low). In other words, one of two things will determine the survivor:

1. survivor got the rep timing right.
2. defeated guy missed the survivor once.

Originally by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
I don't want to sound like I'm complaining "it's not fair." I don't expect it to be. I accept that there are people who have these skills and know that I can't stand in a fair fight, and I'm fine with that. But it is probably the most compelling argument for the ability to purchase skill points to accelerate training. And the longer Eve runs, the more some sort of mechanic will be needed for new players to not simply be overwhelmed by those with nine-digit SP counts. I love our little sandbox and all, but the wider the gap gets between the oldest players and the newest, the harder it gets for new players to feel like they have a chance at becoming something more than a minnow among sharks.


First -- if it's a "fair" fight, someone made a mistake Smile. After that, total SP is not an indicator of how well a pilot may be in a combat situation. Yeah, you can (usually) assume that an older character has their core skills trained to 5 across the board, but that's about it.

It is completely likely that any miner/industrialist you come across has the vast majority of SP in those skill trees.

It is completely likely that a PVP pilot has most everything trained to four, five if it was a prereq. level 5 takes SIGNIFICANTLY longer than 1-4 combined... so it's a matter of "is that 5% important, or should I get 20% better in something else related?"

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.22 16:34:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Newt Rondanse on 22/08/2011 16:34:41
One month to be merely competent with a Rifter, and with no tackle at that.

And folks wonder why so many people try EVE and don't even play out the whole trial period before they get bored with it and go away.


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