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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.08.09 13:54:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Raze Valadeus
If I didn't honestly believe that there is hope for a resolution that would be beneficial to both peoples and bring about a better future for the cluster as a whole, I wouldn't be fighting where I am fighting right now. I am sure the same could be said of you, could it not?


To be honest, the better future of the Amarrian people is quite low on my agenda. I wouldn't mind such an outcome, but my priority right now is the safety of my own people. I am sure the same could be said of you as well.

Quote:
I would, however, like to clarify that being a Holder does not immediately mean you keep slaves. "Holder" is a title of status in the Empire, like minor nobility.


Ah. One of those words that change meaning depending on who uses them. I was taught it refers to pure blood Amarr that is entitled to keep slaves, two attributes I don't think apply to Ms. Farel (well, "entitled" maybe). Hence my confusion.

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 14:15:00 - [32]
 

Formally, yes. It refers only to pure blood Amarr that are entitled to keep slaves (mind you, that doesn't mean they do, just they're "authorized" to do so).

It has apparently been expanded since then, as I've seen it used to refer to anyone maintaining estates, holdings and influence in the Empire.

Honestly, I don't keep up with titles too much, so maybe I'm also confused on its meaning.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.09 14:36:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Lyn Farel
There is a gap between considering someone 'enemy' and being 'at war' with him or her.


Elaborate.

I hope you don't believe that war requires a Concord fee. The Great Northern War was a war of massive scale making almost every Concord sanctioned conflict look like grammar school spelling contests. Many of the most significant and catastrophic wars are fought without Concord ever even getting a memo about them.


Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 14:52:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Kazzzi
Originally by: Lyn Farel
There is a gap between considering someone 'enemy' and being 'at war' with him or her.


Elaborate.

I hope you don't believe that war requires a Concord fee. The Great Northern War was a war of massive scale making almost every Concord sanctioned conflict look like grammar school spelling contests. Many of the most significant and catastrophic wars are fought without Concord ever even getting a memo about them.




I believe the point being made is that you can be enemies without actively being at war with one another. For example, I can consider you an enemy and still not open fire on you every time I cross you in the stars. But if I were at war with you, I would take every opportunity to engage you and actively pursue action against you.

Personally, I've always held to the idea that Ushra'Khan and Electus Matari are at war with anyone supporting the Empire by their stated goals and actions. I would expect nothing less. We are all fighting for what we believe in, while this makes us enemies and puts us at war with one another, I can hold respect for you because you are fighting for what you believe in.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:03:00 - [35]
 

I kinda thought that might be the case, but, you have enemies that you wouldn't kill at every opportunity? Or at least beat senseless?


Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:04:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Kazzzi
I kinda thought that might be the case, but, you have enemies that you wouldn't kill at every opportunity? Or at least beat senseless?




Yes.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:10:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Raze Valadeus
Originally by: Kazzzi
I kinda thought that might be the case, but, you have enemies that you wouldn't kill at every opportunity? Or at least beat senseless?




Yes.


Madness.


Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:15:00 - [38]
 

The term "enemy" has so many uses... Even your opponent in some board games is called your "enemy." Though I guess some capsuleers will kill their enemies in board games (and if it was just to look edgy on IGS), I suspect most will not.

When talking with capsuleers I have noted a great deal of confusion about the concept of an "enemy".

For some, it is difficult to accept that an enemy might be a sensible person to talk to. They either insist on denying them the ability to speak, or they assume that they are not really their enemy.

(There's even a funny in-fight between those extremes, going as far as the latter being upset if anyone calls out the "enemies-who-can't-be-enemies" on their monstrous acts because that sounds an awful lot like the former ...)

The matter of the fact is that the Amarr Militia and all corporations within are currently working towards the destruction of the Minmatar people. Does not mean they like that, but they feel that it is the lesser evil.

Likewise, all corporations within the Minmatar Militia are working towards the destruction of the Amarrian culture. Again, that does not mean we like that, but we feel that it is the lesser evil.

This insight does not mean I can not have a civil discussion with some of the Amarrians, as long as I do not forget what they are currently working on.

(The original discussion that sparked off this thread basically was the result of just such a misconception.)

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:25:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
are working towards the destruction of the Amarrian culture. Again, that does not mean we like that



I like it, it's edgy.

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
(The original discussion that sparked off this thread basically was the result of just such a misconception.)


Happens a lot doesn't it? Should be back on track by page three. Wink

Victoria Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 18:05:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Victoria Valadeus on 09/08/2011 18:06:28
Originally by: "Arkady Sadik"
The fact of the matter is that the KotMC is currently among the greatest threats to the safety and well-being of the Minmatar people.


This is easily the stupidest thing said in this thread.

Now if you actually meant the safety and well-being of, perhaps, the TLF, or Electus Matari, this would not be so stupid. But the Matari people? Its actual non-combative civilians? Idiocy.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.09 18:13:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik


To be honest, the better future of the Amarrian people is quite low on my agenda. I wouldn't mind such an outcome, but my priority right now is the safety of my own people. I am sure the same could be said of you as well.



If it's the safety of Minmatars that's your priority, then might I suggest that you denounce those terrorists who put their lives at risk by attacking slave convoys?

Oh, and in my view the safest place of all for a Minmatar is with an SPCS-accredited holder on a secure facilty.

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 18:28:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Arkady Sadik


To be honest, the better future of the Amarrian people is quite low on my agenda. I wouldn't mind such an outcome, but my priority right now is the safety of my own people. I am sure the same could be said of you as well.



If it's the safety of Minmatars that's your priority, then might I suggest that you denounce those terrorists who put their lives at risk by attacking slave convoys?

Oh, and in my view the safest place of all for a Minmatar is with an SPCS-accredited holder on a secure facilty.


Admiral,

For clarification, I'll assume you mean those slaves being transported legally within the Empire from one place to another, because even I would attack an illegal slave convoy returning from the Republic. The armed escorts, if any were present, would be shown no mercy, the unarmed transport ships would be disabled and the illegally obtained slaves would be returned to the Republic.

As for your view on the safest place for a Minmatar; understand that safety is relative to what you're looking to protect them from. While it is no doubt true that a Minmatar can be protected and provided for by a proper Amarrian Holder, they could also be safe with their own people, being taught to survive and thrive on their own.

Arguably, the Empire can protect and provide better than the Republic. The question then becomes, can the Empire see to their best interests, or simply to its own? If you look at the situation from their perspective, I think you'll begin to understand what Mr. Sadik means by "safety."

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.08.09 19:20:00 - [43]
 

My, and here I was wondering whether the Valadeus clan was simply in general well-bestowed among Amarrians with some rare clear-sighted wisdom (albeit sadly on the wrong side of the war), but I guess it's the old Amarrian saying again - to some He giveth, from some He taketh.

Originally by: Victoria Valadeus
Originally by: "Arkady Sadik"
The fact of the matter is that the KotMC is currently among the greatest threats to the safety and well-being of the Minmatar people.


This is easily the stupidest thing said in this thread.

Now if you actually meant the safety and well-being of, perhaps, the TLF, or Electus Matari, this would not be so stupid. But the Matari people? Its actual non-combative civilians? Idiocy.


I know a few million Minmatar that recently were reclaimed into slavery in no small parts by the actions of the Knighthood who would beg to differ.

Ryven Krennel
Caldari
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 19:29:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
I know a few million Minmatar that recently were reclaimed into slavery in no small parts by the actions of the Knighthood who would beg to differ.


You know a few million people? Amazing. How do you remember their names?

Seriously, though, what are you even talking about here?


Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 19:38:00 - [45]
 

No offense Mister Sadik,

You believe people were "reclaimed" into slavery when that simply isn't true. Please refer to the above statements, and I can provide you with other references if you require them, about the limitations of the expansion and practice of slavery currently within the Empire.

The Knighthood does not "reclaim" people into slavery, it fights against the enemies of the Empire and seeks to reclaim territory lost in this war while simultaneously working toward various levels of reform within the Empire.

Please understand that I am not mocking you for your statements, I am simply trying to inform you that somewhere along the line, you have either been grossly misinformed or I have.

Aldrith Shutaq
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 19:42:00 - [46]
 

Stuff about things, Ryven. Things we are not going to be able to do anything about for a long while yet.

I am not even sure I want to dip my toes back into this one. Going about in circles, really.

Ryven Krennel
Caldari
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 19:47:00 - [47]
 

So it would seem.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 19:51:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik

Originally by: Lyn Farel
Someday, if I get free of my Holder duties


You keep slaves?



None.

Originally by: Kazzzi
Originally by: Lyn Farel
There is a gap between considering someone 'enemy' and being 'at war' with him or her.


Elaborate.

I hope you don't believe that war requires a Concord fee. The Great Northern War was a war of massive scale making almost every Concord sanctioned conflict look like grammar school spelling contests. Many of the most significant and catastrophic wars are fought without Concord ever even getting a memo about them.




I do not understand what nullsec wars have to do with this.

And yes, lord Valadeus is correct in his interpretation of my words. I see your point though, so it seems we were not according each other on the signification we placed behind the same word.

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
My, and here I was wondering whether the Valadeus clan was simply in general well-bestowed among Amarrians with some rare clear-sighted wisdom (albeit sadly on the wrong side of the war), but I guess it's the old Amarrian saying again - to some He giveth, from some He taketh.

Originally by: Victoria Valadeus
Originally by: "Arkady Sadik"
The fact of the matter is that the KotMC is currently among the greatest threats to the safety and well-being of the Minmatar people.


This is easily the stupidest thing said in this thread.

Now if you actually meant the safety and well-being of, perhaps, the TLF, or Electus Matari, this would not be so stupid. But the Matari people? Its actual non-combative civilians? Idiocy.


I know a few million Minmatar that recently were reclaimed into slavery in no small parts by the actions of the Knighthood who would beg to differ.


Now I am starting to think this is actually, you, who are a definite threat to any peace resolution.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.08.09 20:01:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Raze Valadeus
No offense Mister Sadik,

You believe people were "reclaimed" into slavery when that simply isn't true.


What do you think exactly happens when the Republic occupies imperial territory? Among the things that slowly happen (as time and energy permits) is establishing of Republic law, among them liberation of slaves. (We would evacuate, but that's logistically not feasible.) When the Empire reclaims these planets, these people are returned to slavery.

There is another thread on this fine forum where you announce the successful reclaiming of seven solar systems.

How many people do you think where returned to slavery in these systems thanks to your actions?

Mind you, I do not tell you that what you do was not understandable. Those systems are imperial sovereign space and it is only understandable that you wish to return to your people what you consider rightfully yours.

But this understandable desire also means you actively return freed people into slavery. Whether you like that or not.

Aldrith Shutaq
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 20:32:00 - [50]
 

Well, the problem is that nobody really knows what happens on the ground when a Matari soldier lands on an Amarrian planet, or visa-versa. In fact, I have not heard of any reports of ground invasions on this front at all, period. Do our navies even bother with that? We only know that the Caldari touched down on a few Gallente systems a while back, and there was only minor and sporadic fighting that resulted. Eventually the Gallente militia mustered their forces and regained space-superiority of the systems before anything could result from that. Something tells me, however, that would not happen on our front. If any ground actions occur here, we will hear about it, and it will not be pretty. No matter who is the one invading.

Honestly Arkady, the question on our front is not one of slavery or freedom, it is one of warcrimes.

Allow me to present to you a situation: A Minmatar squad has just touched down nearby a remote Holder estate that hold slaves. The squad's orders are to free said slaves. That is all fine and dandy, but there is no clause on 'how' this is to be done. Think about it Arkady.

A Holder estate. A pack of Minmatar military personnel given vague orders and free reign while the rest of the invasion forces try to secure the cities and subdue opposition.

That will not end well. Especially if said military personnel look up to your famed Valkears, or worse, are Valkears.

The exact same goes for Amarrian troops on a Minmatar planet. The chances for gross abuse of the civilian populations is absurdly high. This is why we do not want you in our territory, and why you do not want us in yours.

Now please stop arguing and see to it the borders are maintained, yes?

Ryven Krennel
Caldari
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 20:36:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Ryven Krennel on 09/08/2011 20:40:59
I am sure the Amarrian citizens fared wonderfully under Republic occupation and the holders were all given free kittens from their benevolent occupiers, right?

Somehow I suspect the Republic's tenure as occupying authority came with some stains on its lily white gloves.

EDIT: I see the Grandmaster replied first and more eloquently. I agree this thread of discussion is going nowhere, as do all these dances of the same native tune.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 22:55:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
Originally by: Raze Valadeus
No offense Mister Sadik,

You believe people were "reclaimed" into slavery when that simply isn't true.


What do you think exactly happens when the Republic occupies imperial territory? Among the things that slowly happen (as time and energy permits) is establishing of Republic law, among them liberation of slaves. (We would evacuate, but that's logistically not feasible.) When the Empire reclaims these planets, these people are returned to slavery.

There is another thread on this fine forum where you announce the successful reclaiming of seven solar systems.

How many people do you think where returned to slavery in these systems thanks to your actions?

Mind you, I do not tell you that what you do was not understandable. Those systems are imperial sovereign space and it is only understandable that you wish to return to your people what you consider rightfully yours.

But this understandable desire also means you actively return freed people into slavery. Whether you like that or not.


You seem to forget one fundamental fact : the contested regions under CONCORD emergency militia act are a tiny part of the Empire in terms of demographics, and I would even say now, in terms of slave population. The former for the simple reason that they are remote regions, especially the Bleak Lands, and the latter for the reason that a lot of slaves have already been liberated by the TLF itself during several occupations. A lot have been taken back as you say, and a lot have been freed, and a lot have just vanished. Or I think it not too hazardous to assume this is more or less what happens everytime.

In any case, slaves are freed, taken back, no matter their numbers, yes. But in reality, you and the Republic have absolutely no power or capability to make it change for the vast majority of slaves that are living in other parts of the Empire : the parts not included in Devoid or the Bleak Lands. Ultimately, these acts of war where you free slaves here in Devoid and the Bleak Lands by force only help the hardliners cause, and hinders everything else.

Originally by: Aldrith Shutaq

Honestly Arkady, the question on our front is not one of slavery or freedom, it is one of warcrimes.

Allow me to present to you a situation: A Minmatar squad has just touched down nearby a remote Holder estate that hold slaves. The squad's orders are to free said slaves. That is all fine and dandy, but there is no clause on 'how' this is to be done. Think about it Arkady.

A Holder estate. A pack of Minmatar military personnel given vague orders and free reign while the rest of the invasion forces try to secure the cities and subdue opposition.

That will not end well. Especially if said military personnel look up to your famed Valkears, or worse, are Valkears.

The exact same goes for Amarrian troops on a Minmatar planet. The chances for gross abuse of the civilian populations is absurdly high. This is why we do not want you in our territory, and why you do not want us in yours.


But, Mr Sadik admitted that he does not care much about what happens to people not belonging to his own kin, especially the Amarr people. This is definitly and utterly selfish, but he was not ashamed to admit it here.

Something that might make people wonder why he keeps calling us 'bad' or 'monsters' repeatedly, on another note.

Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2011.08.09 23:10:00 - [53]
 

I recently left Electus Matari to do my duty, to fight against the impending invasion of our space.

Wanna know what my long-term goal is?

For my children to be able to play with Amarrian children on a playground, and for their biggest concern while doing so is wondering who's parents brought the chips and soda. At the end of the day, I want to be able to go home, tuck them into bed, and for me and my children to pray together, to the spirits, to our ancestors, for such a peace to be strong and long lasting. Coexistence is NOT impossible, but name calling and clinging to the past, on EITHER side, wont get us here.

As long as the war is on, I can never see my dream.

Do those of you in the Empire, who wish only to see me and my people in chains, have such a thirst for death and loss in the name of God, that you would pick that option over the one I want?

And I am the savage?

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.10 02:39:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Ava Starfire

Do those of you in the Empire, who wish only to see me and my people in chains, have such a thirst for death and loss in the name of God, that you would pick that option over the one I want?

And I am the savage?


Unfortunately, you will find some within the Empire that would answer "yes" to your first question. I daresay they are a minority at this point, however.

And to the second? At the end of the day, war makes killers of us all. It is our hearts and spirits that keep us from becoming monsters and savages. You clearly have both, so the answer is plain.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.08.10 05:23:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Lyn Farel
You seem to forget one fundamental fact : the contested regions under CONCORD emergency militia act are a tiny part of the Empire in terms of demographics, and I would even say now, in terms of slave population. The former for the simple reason that they are remote regions, especially the Bleak Lands, and the latter for the reason that a lot of slaves have already been liberated by the TLF itself during several occupations. A lot have been taken back as you say, and a lot have been freed, and a lot have just vanished. Or I think it not too hazardous to assume this is more or less what happens everytime.

In any case, slaves are freed, taken back, no matter their numbers, yes. But in reality, you and the Republic have absolutely no power or capability to make it change for the vast majority of slaves that are living in other parts of the Empire : the parts not included in Devoid or the Bleak Lands. Ultimately, these acts of war where you free slaves here in Devoid and the Bleak Lands by force only help the hardliners cause, and hinders everything else.


I was told that [y]ou believe people were "reclaimed" into slavery when that simply isn't true. I refuted this, and made no other claims.

Various pilots in the Knighthood telling me that the reclaiming of those slaves was justified, for the better of all of us, totally understandable or even not relevant because it's just such a tiny fraction of my people does not change this fact.

The actions of the Knighthood support the reclaiming of my people into slavery. And just like Mr. Blake you all have many reasons for reclaiming my people.

Quote:
But, Mr Sadik admitted that he does not care much about what happens to people not belonging to his own kin, especially the Amarr people. This is definitly and utterly selfish, but he was not ashamed to admit it here.

Something that might make people wonder why he keeps calling us 'bad' or 'monsters' repeatedly, on another note.


"Caring" is such an amusing word. Mr. Blake here has told us repeatedly how much he "cares" for the well-being of my people. Would you prefer me to "care" for your people's well-being like that, too?

And now you seem to want to imply that you "care" for my people almost as much as you "care" for your own, while fighting this war and defending the borders of the Empire in Metropolis. I am sure I "care" about your people that much as well.

I'm simply being honest.

I can only repeat myself: I did not want this war. Still, it is here, and the outcome as it looks right now does not seem particularly rosy, no matter what I would like to happen. Self-delusions aren't going to change that, but I wish you good luck in trying.

Saikoyu
Amarr
Rho Dynamics
Posted - 2011.08.10 06:18:00 - [56]
 

Well, this is something. The Knighthood does not wish to fight in this war. If I understand Pilot Sadik's position, EM does not wish to fight in this war, or at least some pilots in leadership positions does not. I would hope that there are others currently fighting in this conflict who do not wish to fight. Here is a revolutionary idea.

Why do you not stop?

It is not like there are others who would not continue to fight, we being such bloodthirsty people. And there are other threats that you could concern yourselves with, Blood Raiders, Sansha, the list goes on. Still, if enough left this war, maybe others would follow. Maybe we could end this war ourselves, as the empires are content to let us kills each other, our crews, and whoever else strays into our path, from now until the end of even our long lives for nothing more than colors on a map and people that they never truly protected in the first place. Maybe we could bring about this perfect solution that is hinted at here.

Would that not be something, we "monsters" succeeding where the empires failed...

Not that I expect it to happen. This pointless war is much more fun, is it not?

Still, it would be something if someone actually did something for the people both sides claim to be fighting for. As you are too all too busy shooting each other, I suppose I will.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.08.10 07:22:00 - [57]
 

I think the problem with "why don't you just stop" is that both sides have differing ideas on when the other side actually has "stopped." Things rarely are this simple, sadly.

But I am the wrong person to negotiate about the end of the war with. Please direct these suggestions and inquiries to the Republic government.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.10 07:25:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Raze Valadeus
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Arkady Sadik


To be honest, the better future of the Amarrian people is quite low on my agenda. I wouldn't mind such an outcome, but my priority right now is the safety of my own people. I am sure the same could be said of you as well.



If it's the safety of Minmatars that's your priority, then might I suggest that you denounce those terrorists who put their lives at risk by attacking slave convoys?

Oh, and in my view the safest place of all for a Minmatar is with an SPCS-accredited holder on a secure facilty.


Admiral,

For clarification, I'll assume you mean those slaves being transported legally within the Empire from one place to another, because even I would attack an illegal slave convoy returning from the Republic. The armed escorts, if any were present, would be shown no mercy, the unarmed transport ships would be disabled and the illegally obtained slaves would be returned to the Republic.

As for your view on the safest place for a Minmatar; understand that safety is relative to what you're looking to protect them from. While it is no doubt true that a Minmatar can be protected and provided for by a proper Amarrian Holder, they could also be safe with their own people, being taught to survive and thrive on their own.

Arguably, the Empire can protect and provide better than the Republic. The question then becomes, can the Empire see to their best interests, or simply to its own? If you look at the situation from their perspective, I think you'll begin to understand what Mr. Sadik means by "safety."


Why don't you try explaining that to Abel Jarek?


Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.10 07:28:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Ava Starfire
I recently left Electus Matari to do my duty, to fight against the impending invasion of our space.

Wanna know what my long-term goal is?

For my children to be able to play with Amarrian children on a playground, and for their biggest concern while doing so is wondering who's parents brought the chips and soda. At the end of the day, I want to be able to go home, tuck them into bed, and for me and my children to pray together, to the spirits, to our ancestors, for such a peace to be strong and long lasting. Coexistence is NOT impossible, but name calling and clinging to the past, on EITHER side, wont get us here.

As long as the war is on, I can never see my dream.

Do those of you in the Empire, who wish only to see me and my people in chains, have such a thirst for death and loss in the name of God, that you would pick that option over the one I want?

And I am the savage?


I don't want to see the Minmatar people in chains.

I want to see the Minmatar people take up positions as enlightened and God-fearing citizens of the Empire.

The metaphorical chains are just a means of getting them there.

Caellach Marellus
Gallente
Nephtys Ventures inc
Posted - 2011.08.10 10:23:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Caellach Marellus on 10/08/2011 10:36:06
Originally by: Aldrith Shutaq
Honestly, learn how to smile.


That's as likely as Shakor, Sarum, Heth and Roden all sitting down and discussing things over a cup of tea, and sharing the cake equally.

Your wife seems quite the highly strung pilot [insert appropiate rank here] Shutaq, might I suggest one of my own personal alcoholic mixes to calm her mood?


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