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Raven Saint James
Posted - 2011.08.14 15:10:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Cadet Wiggin
People are confusing you with Bots, or they simply don't like carebears.
I will occasionally kill a miner in highsec....because I can. Shocked



This is the point of the thread.......A.) there is power in numbers. I know that people say well join a mining corp that is well rouded. I agree with that but, it is time for MINERS of all races and creeds to form one true massice conclomerant and be effective in a way that have yet to be seen in Eve.
B.)I know that many threads like this have been started and the MINER player base just eventually fizzles out and it dies, let's not allow this one to , please!
C.) This is the future and of course we are not talking about a "UNION" in the traditional sense of the word....like some have suggested.
****Finally there is a great place for non-bot mining players that simply enjoy mining to not be worried about some direlict warping in popping their 200million + HULK set up.
If the pilots that popped hulks only popped bots and the sort miners would be thrilled and will and do help in that situation. That is not the point.

We can effectively take control of the industrial sector of mineral sales if we stick together and form a FRIDAY market boycot by placing all of our ORE/MINERALS for that days sells to ungodly double prices....Let's try it for a few weeks and see what effect it has on the Market......all in favor say "Yae" and those not say "Nae"Question

Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.08.14 16:06:00 - [62]
 

Notice how fast the convo digressed? You might want to glean the forum and use your massive in-game search functions (not) to compile a list of formidable mining corps. Get their CEO's ID, or diplomat's if they have one, and send out an EVE Mail to broach the idea, and get the discussion ball rolling amongst those who make real decisions. I think you'll be surprised at the results, but someone has to do the legwork on this sort of thing. It's not the type of work people relish.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.08.14 16:48:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Raven Saint James
Originally by: Cadet Wiggin
People are confusing you with Bots, or they simply don't like carebears.
I will occasionally kill a miner in highsec....because I can. Shocked



This is the point of the thread.......A.) there is power in numbers. I know that people say well join a mining corp that is well rouded. I agree with that but, it is time for MINERS of all races and creeds to form one true massice conclomerant and be effective in a way that have yet to be seen in Eve.
B.)I know that many threads like this have been started and the MINER player base just eventually fizzles out and it dies, let's not allow this one to , please!
C.) This is the future and of course we are not talking about a "UNION" in the traditional sense of the word....like some have suggested.
****Finally there is a great place for non-bot mining players that simply enjoy mining to not be worried about some direlict warping in popping their 200million + HULK set up.
If the pilots that popped hulks only popped bots and the sort miners would be thrilled and will and do help in that situation. That is not the point.

We can effectively take control of the industrial sector of mineral sales if we stick together and form a FRIDAY market boycot by placing all of our ORE/MINERALS for that days sells to ungodly double prices....Let's try it for a few weeks and see what effect it has on the Market......all in favor say "Yae" and those not say "Nae"Question


I'll make it more explicit: miners aren't even nearly the only source of minerals. Drone loot is a massive mineral fountain, and the owners of drone space dont give a tinker's cuss about hi-sec miners.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.14 17:36:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Raven Saint James
Originally by: Ghoest
I think its kind of cute that she is serious when shes says this.


OK I TRIED AND THE OVERWHELMING NEAGTIVITY AND OBVIOUSLY ABUNDANCE OF IDIOTS IN EVE ONLINE MAKES IT APPARENT...THERE IS NO NEED FOR A UNION OF LIKE MINDED PEOPLE. YOU GUYS ENJOY YOUR HULKS BEING BLOWN UP AND I WILL JOIN THE OTHERSIDE AND BE ONE OF THE AGGRESSORS. STOP *****ING IN LOCAL HELP CHAT IF THIS IS HOW YOU ALL FEEL ABOUT IT.Evil or Very MadREMEMBER WHEN I WARP IN ON YOUR HULK AND 2 SHOT YOU NOT CARING ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES OF CONCORD..YOU DID THIS TO ME....LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!MUAHHAAHHHAHHAHHAATwisted Evil


You wont kill my hulk nublet.

And when you are unable to you will realize your nubish ways and repent.

LegitGuy WithCandy
Caldari
Serious Legitimate Hauling and Trade Corporation
Posted - 2011.08.14 18:29:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Raven Saint James
MINERS of all races and creeds...


...and sexual orientation.

Zela Kahn
Posted - 2011.08.14 19:26:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Raven Saint James
Originally by: Cadet Wiggin
People are confusing you with Bots, or they simply don't like carebears.
I will occasionally kill a miner in highsec....because I can. Shocked



This is the point of the thread.......A.) there is power in numbers. I know that people say well join a mining corp that is well rouded. I agree with that but, it is time for MINERS of all races and creeds to form one true massice conclomerant and be effective in a way that have yet to be seen in Eve.
B.)I know that many threads like this have been started and the MINER player base just eventually fizzles out and it dies, let's not allow this one to , please!
C.) This is the future and of course we are not talking about a "UNION" in the traditional sense of the word....like some have suggested.
****Finally there is a great place for non-bot mining players that simply enjoy mining to not be worried about some direlict warping in popping their 200million + HULK set up.
If the pilots that popped hulks only popped bots and the sort miners would be thrilled and will and do help in that situation. That is not the point.

We can effectively take control of the industrial sector of mineral sales if we stick together and form a FRIDAY market boycot by placing all of our ORE/MINERALS for that days sells to ungodly double prices....Let's try it for a few weeks and see what effect it has on the Market......all in favor say "Yae" and those not say "Nae"Question


I think I like what you are diggin at, I will contact you in game in a few...

Conesha WooWoo
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:32:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Conesha WooWoo on 01/09/2011 14:37:46
Well guys here we are. We have had many miners come here in this forum and post about the issue of HULK popping in an unprovoked situation. The thread was started with the hopes that miners of all races and creeds would come together and form "Organized Resistance" to this horrific act. We are not talking about "Hulkaggedon" in specific, rather we are merely trying to say that miners in general are given a bad rap from the very players that depend on us for minerals. I don't want to hear that crap "We get our minerals from salvaging"... because, you can't get enough minerals from salvaging 2000 wrecks for even one hull of a BS. The bot miners are fair game...go go kill all of them we will help. This is not what has come from "hulkaggedon" though.....pirate players got a taste of the salvage off a hulk and now all hulks are just fair game?

Come Carebears...freaking get it together and form something.......we have been trying to for YEARS and for some reason we can't? It seems we would all benefit from it.....so you and your 3 buddies already mine together and so you're cool with that?

NO NO NO I am talking about 200-300 Vessels together at one time going from one system to the next cleaning like locusts swarming the Universe....and then sitting on that mineral gather for week at a time until the whole region is 100% paralyzed from our act....do you get the concept.......I call for it on November 10th starting in Amarr....and we will work our way towards JITA in an orderly fashion cleaning belts like a space mega vacuum cleaner???It could be fun guys? We need combat pilots of course for guards and haulers and Miners of all shapes and sizes....NOVEMBER 10TH 2011 Start time 24:00 Server TIME....send evemail to me for SIGN UP! List your interest and vessel and role to fill......TY in Advance LETS ROCK THIS THING.THING.Laughing

Yildez
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:36:00 - [68]
 

Well guys here we are. We have had many miners come here in this forum and post about the issue of HULK popping in an unprovoked situation. The thread was started with the hopes that miners of all races and creeds would come together and form "Organized Resistance" to this horrific act. We are not talking about "Hulkaggedon" in specific, rather we are merely trying to say that miners in general are given a bad rap from the very players that depend on us for minerals. I don't want to hear that crap "We get our minerals from salvaging"... because, you can't get enough minerals from salvaging 2000 wrecks for even one hull of a BS. The bot miners are fair game...go go kill all of them we will help. This is not what has come from "hulkaggedon" though.....pirate players got a taste of the salvage off a hulk and now all hulks are just fair game?

Come Carebears...freaking get it together and form something.......we have been trying to for YEARS and for some reason we can't? It seems we would all benefit from it.....so you and your 3 buddies already mine together and so you're cool with that?

NO NO NO I am talking about 200-300 Vessels together at one time going from one system to the next cleaning like locusts swarming the Universe....and then sitting on that mineral gather for week at a time until the whole region is 100% paralyzed from our act....do you get the concept.......I call for it on November 10th starting in Amarr....and we will work our way towards JITA in an orderly fashion cleaning belts like a space mega vacuum cleaner???It could be fun guys? We need combat pilots of course for guards and haulers and Miners of all shapes and sizes....NOVEMBER 10TH 2011 Start time 24:00 Server TIME....send evemail to me for SIGN UP! List your interest and vessel and role to fill......TY in Advance LETS ROCK THIS THING.THING

Hicksimus
Gallente
Mom's Friendly Spaceship Company
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:41:00 - [69]
 

Yes get all together I'll get my friends and their smart bombs we're going -10 on you *****es!

Ferrus Mehtalls
DEXN Recruitment
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:49:00 - [70]
 

Unions are pawns of the Communist International (Comintern), the very soul of the devil. I will have no part in Unionizing. DEVILTRY!!

Demonicly Posessed
Posted - 2011.09.01 15:32:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Thornat
Originally by: Gevlin
I have been told there are corps out there that actually organize large ops and keep some cloaked guards near by. if a ship is lost on these ops the corp replaces the ships.

Though the corp does take 50% of the cut. but boosts and hauling is provided by the corp.


But thats kind of the point I'm trying to make about self sufficiency and making your own solutions. I mean why does a mining corp only have miners? Why is that a standard? If you are going to run a proper mining op you have to have a well round group of people all in on the take and a small defense force is usually more than sufficient to deter the average pirates out their. No one warps into a asteroid belt, targets a miner and when he discovers their are 3 stealth bombers bearing down on them sticks around to blow up the miner. I mean people aren't stupid, they reckognize the difference between an easy kill and a high risk situation. It doesnt take that much to keep pirates out of asteroid belts.

And how exactly are 3 stealthbombers going to make hi sec ganking impossible? Ganker knows very well that if he shoots hulk in hi sec he looses ship. He stil does it Named 3 stealthbomber scenario may work in low sec but no one is solo pvp-ing anymore so ur argument is invalid.
Also if u strike in hi sec, well 0.0 alliances have own mining ops going and drone regions and drone goo and mission loot repro mins as mentioned before.

Sry to burst your buble mining community but it will newer work out

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.01 15:45:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Thornat

If you want to affect prices you have to outright stop mining, affecting the supply and frankly I'm not sure how much that impact would be felt since the reduction in current prices has to do with the reduced demand. Only during expansions when resources become heavily sought after the supply is severly drained do the prices actually rise. To get that effect going on the economy you would have to have a pretty serious impact on supply and while I'm sure their are plenty of community members ready to get into a Miners Union per say, It would take a significantly sizable community to pull that off.



Actually, better yet, keep on mining and squirreling it away, just don't put it on the market. Just as effective, but you're still being productive.

Demonicly Posessed
Posted - 2011.09.01 15:53:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
There is a very simple solution to your problem:

1. Stay aligned to a celestial object or station at 75% speed
2. Pay attention (in other words, don't AFK)
3. When a combat ship warps in close to your mining ship, warp out

You'll have at least a 5-10 second window where you can see the intruder, but he's still coming out of warp and can't target you. It takes you about a second to press the warp button.

YOU are the one with the advantage, not the ganker, unless you deliberately throw that advantage away by not taking these few simple precautions.

It really IS that simple!


You dear sir have never mined or if u have u only have 1 ship? Am i correct.
Cause if u have more then one ship its hard to maintain that thing u sugsested. Why most miners sit in spot is they clear everything from belt in mining radius then move to another spot and repeat the thing.
Try cleaning a belt with your tactic and tell me how efficent it is.

Krixtal Icefluxor
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:11:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Yildez
NO NO NO I am talking about 200-300 Vessels together at one time going from one system to the next cleaning like locusts swarming the Universe....



THIS is called MACRO-MINING....and is just as disgusting as BOTTING.

Even if 1000 Hulks did it for a day with you the amount gleaned would not be near enough to have an effect on the absolutely even more massive volume in the major markets AT ALL, mainly from the BOTTERS who are already doing this anyway ! Jeez, contribute to the problem next time why don't you ? I mean really.

This is a really terrible idea. And I'm a Miner, yes.

If you cannot find out the names of the Ninja and Suicide Alliances and Corps and color them a unique color in your Contacts so that when they appear on Local you can take action..........THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO DO EVER.

It's really really simple to protect yourself with NO help from anybody.


Spenser for Hire
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:55:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Originally by: Yildez
NO NO NO I am talking about 200-300 Vessels together at one time going from one system to the next cleaning like locusts swarming the Universe....



THIS is called MACRO-MINING....and is just as disgusting as BOTTING.

Even if 1000 Hulks did it for a day with you the amount gleaned would not be near enough to have an effect on the absolutely even more massive volume in the major markets AT ALL, mainly from the BOTTERS who are already doing this anyway ! Jeez, contribute to the problem next time why don't you ? I mean really.

This is a really terrible idea. And I'm a Miner, yes.

If you cannot find out the names of the Ninja and Suicide Alliances and Corps and color them a unique color in your Contacts so that when they appear on Local you can take action..........THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO DO EVER.

It's really really simple to protect yourself with NO help from anybody.




Granted, the "Locusts" idea may be unfeasible, however, that does not justify the swing to the absolute opposite pole that the "lone miner can take down the Miner-Gankin'-Corps just by flagging them in contacts."

The idea that its "Simple to protect yourself from Gangs (an entire customerbase with the Bully/Hulkegeddon mentality) without any help from anyone" is ten-thousand times more ridiculous than the "locusts idea."

A great deal of history is simply individuals banding together to protect their interests from the absolutely lawless.

Miners should band together. However, the idea of a Miners Union's first and only goal being to destroy the Bully/Hulkageddon mentality/element in the game is far and away too much.

first goal of the Miner's Union should be to simply have the idea of a Miner's Union accepted by the player base. Implementing and answering the question: What do we Miner's get from belonging to this Union?

Krixtal Icefluxor
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:27:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Spenser for Hire
[Granted, the "Locusts" idea may be unfeasible, however, that does not justify the swing to the absolute opposite pole that the "lone miner can take down the Miner-Gankin'-Corps just by flagging them in contacts.".........


Ah Jeeeeeez...............

By seeing thier color on Local and taking action I DO NOT MEAN TAKE THEM ON !!

My God did you ever just leap to a wrong conclusion, and if that is how you make decisions when playing, you are going to have a rough time with EVE in genral.

When you see them on Local, you SAFE UP, DOCK, OR LEAVE SYSTEM.

It's REALLY REALLY easy.

I can't believe I even had to CLARIFY this for someone.

Wow. Shocked

Krixtal Icefluxor
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:34:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Spenser for Hire
[A great deal of history is simply individuals banding together to protect their interests from the absolutely lawless..........




Welp, if you open a Miner's Union, I GUARANTEE you it WILL be infiltrated and half the time a fleet heads out with Orca suppport, the infiltrators will 'turn' and GANK THE ORCA and probably SMARTBOMB everyone else including themselves.

It already happens all the time.

When I was in Livetech (Closed 11/2010) we twice had noobs join and then it turned out to be Orca Ganking set-ups and they lost 2 in the time I was affiliated.

This "Unionize for Protection" will not work. Ever. It is not how EVE works.

See the light please and understand that this will never happen. Naivette will get you killed in EVE.

Krixtal Icefluxor
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:55:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor on 02/09/2011 16:03:48

Just like to say that we already have Miner's Unions that will even take out their fees (taxes) from your Wallet automatically when you do certain things within that protective group.

These Unions are all over EVE already and they are called....




* C * O * R * P * O * R * A * T * I * O * N * S *

Oh...that's right...Corporations can be War-Decced and you want IMMUNITY from all of it in an NPC Corp and a Union and.....absolutely RISK FREE GAMEPLAY. That's right, I almost forgot the real point of all of this. How silly of me. Rolling Eyes


Shazi Mavox
Posted - 2011.09.02 17:37:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Lot of crap

1, I was talking about completing a roid, not a cycle, read before you reply.
2, Mission pockets and exploration sites have nothing but veldspar, and you would also be required to empty them from hostile NPCs, that's not what we're there to do in our mining-barge now is it? We're here to mine, not fight NPCs.
3, I suggest you get out in a hulk and start mining, try to fill your hold while simultaneously moving around and staying aligned to a safespot.

I don't really even know why I bother explaining this to you, Your accusations and false information shows that you are either:
A. A lame troll
B. A ganker running out of easy prey
C. A combination of A and B

Peace out

Simetraz
Posted - 2011.09.02 17:49:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Simetraz on 02/09/2011 17:49:22
Originally by: Yildez

NO NO NO I am talking about 200-300 Vessels together at one time going from one system to the next cleaning like locusts swarming the Universe....


You do this and I will start ganking you.
Bad idea, miners don't need attention brought to them they need less of it.

There is a reason why you don't see 50 miners in one system in high sec let alone 200-300.
1. The system can't support it.
2. It is like grabbing a raw steak and walking into a loins cage and saying here kitty kitty.






Krixtal Icefluxor
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:27:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Simetraz
Edited by: Simetraz on 02/09/2011 17:49:22
There is a reason why you don't see 50 miners in one system in high sec let alone 200-300.
1. The system can't support it.
2. It is like grabbing a raw steak and walking into a loins cage and saying here kitty kitty.



Thank You. Thank You. Thank You.

The amount of naivette expressed about this issue is astonishing really..........

I you do not feel safe mining, MAN UP ! and do some actual Level 4 Combat Missions (OMG NOOO! Not COMBAT Missions !....) and farm those for Pyrox, and DED sites for Hemo and Jasp, and Grav sites for even some Hedbergite in High Sec sometimes.

Not 100% safe, but there is more than just belt sweeping to do in this game.


Krixtal Icefluxor
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:34:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Shazi Mavox
Originally by: Kerfira
Lot of crap

2, Mission pockets and exploration sites have nothing but veldspar...........................


ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE FALSE INFORMATION



See post above.


Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:38:00 - [83]
 

I vaguely recall that someone tried this after I started in playing in 2008. At the time, the price of trit was close to 4 isk/unit. I can't recall what the fuss was about back then, but I remember the unionization talk.

Satav
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:44:00 - [84]
 

Lol. You won't like my solution. I am a huge miner. I like the fact of killing macro miners, keeps mineral prices good.

I myself have multiple tunes. Obviously you'll have to adjust this to your ability but this is what I did.

1 - Orca fitted with shield harminizing (perfect bonus) and 2 ecm bursts to break target lock.
4 - hulk tunes all with perfect shield skills - fitted to 75% resists across the board.
2 - scimitar tunes orbiting my mining group at 50k
1 - Orca hauling ore to station.

The ecm bursts on the first orca break lock on suicides and by the time they relock concord has spawned in the belt. The key to this is waiting till they engage of coarse.

The hulks have enough buffer to last the alpha when the ecm bursts come in.

And the scimitars keep everything alive.

Note that I have made it through two hulkageddons with this set up. Mainly because, even though my hulks can still be blown up, the extra ships and time it takes to do it is not worth it to the suicider cause he could have blown up 3 other guys in the same amount of time.

Stop the carebear tears! Lol. Im a huge miner, and I don't complain. I like suiciding. It makes things fun, interesting and challenging. It makes me a better pilot.

The cut and dry of it is, there are all sorts of things you can do to counter suiciders and suiciding events (hulkaggedon) you just have to get creative.

Spenser for Hire
Posted - 2011.09.02 22:31:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Satav
Lol. You won't like my solution. I am a huge miner. I like the fact of killing macro miners, keeps mineral prices good.

I myself have multiple tunes. Obviously you'll have to adjust this to your ability but this is what I did.

1 - Orca fitted with shield harminizing (perfect bonus) and 2 ecm bursts to break target lock.
4 - hulk tunes all with perfect shield skills - fitted to 75% resists across the board.
2 - scimitar tunes orbiting my mining group at 50k
1 - Orca hauling ore to station.

The ecm bursts on the first orca break lock on suicides and by the time they relock concord has spawned in the belt. The key to this is waiting till they engage of coarse.

The hulks have enough buffer to last the alpha when the ecm bursts come in.

And the scimitars keep everything alive.

Note that I have made it through two hulkageddons with this set up. Mainly because, even though my hulks can still be blown up, the extra ships and time it takes to do it is not worth it to the suicider cause he could have blown up 3 other guys in the same amount of time.

Stop the carebear tears! Lol. Im a huge miner, and I don't complain. I like suiciding. It makes things fun, interesting and challenging. It makes me a better pilot.

The cut and dry of it is, there are all sorts of things you can do to counter suiciders and suiciding events (hulkaggedon) you just have to get creative.




I love this post, its Logic, its rhetoric! (And, of course I love all such posts with similar logic and rhetoric. don't want any of you Villagers, with your pitchforks and torches to feel left out.)

a Guy with 8 accounts just to counter the threat of Suicide gankers and hulkageddon, (lets hope that's on at least 3 computers) tells us there's all sorts of "creative" ways to counter Suicide gankers and events, like Hulkageddon, but apparently a "Miner's Union" is neither "Creative" or a solution.

He starts his post out by saying; "You won't like my solution." But, not only does he present this solution which everyone else has already ruled out, but, somewhere, somehow in the midst of his post "his solution" becomes the Model solution, the creative solution, the type of solution that we ought to implement, even though "we don't/won't like it" and he knows it.

Miner's Union = Carebear Tears.
Hulkageddon = acceptable, Cool.

Hulkageddoners complain, that is, they cry about all the people who mine and don't do what they think they should do. Hulkageddoners tears are not tears? Hulkageddoners are not crybabies?

Suicide Events, like Hulkageddon, are reasonable, fun, acceptable events.
Miner's Union Events are unreasonable, unfun, unacceptable.

Its okay for Suicide gankers to get together, plan, plot, exploit other players.
But its NOT okay for Miners to get together, plan, plot, exploit other players.

what have we learned?
Events designed to disrupt the play of others are Creative.
Events designed to establish order are UN-creative.



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