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blankseplocked tiny suggestion for authors: add the 50/150 RP/DC to R&D discussion
 
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AmarrettoDiAmarr
Posted - 2011.08.06 23:02:00 - [1]
 

My tiny suggestions is to add the 50/150 RP/DC to R&D discussions.

In a couple of dozen pages, including the wiki, I found the
RP/day = Field multiplier * (1 + (AQ + 5*N)/100) * (SS + AL)^2

But none of them provided the information to allow a reader to compute data core per day or to compute the value of an RP.

i.e. DC=RP/(50*FM)

------
In
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1245673&page=1#11

Mara Rinn suggested to use the wiki discussion thread but I get "Permission Errors - The action you have requested is limited to users in the group Sysops." when I try to create a login.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.08.07 11:05:00 - [2]
 

RP are going to be removed from the game anyway, with data cores apparently being moved to exploration.

So CCP Soundwave has written, so shall it be done.

Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Posted - 2011.08.07 11:18:00 - [3]
 

That's going to upset a lot of people if they do that isn't it? Why do CCP keep doing things to EVE that upset the player-base?

Quazal Atreides
Gallente
Low Orbit Industries
Posted - 2011.08.07 13:05:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Quazal Atreides on 07/08/2011 13:05:27
Originally by: Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
That's going to upset a lot of people if they do that isn't it? Why do CCP keep doing things to EVE that upset the player-base?


Im curious

who will it affect ? The people that ground out the rep and skills to get good RnD agents will (i would assume) get enough warning to cash in their rps thus they suffer no loss (and yes im one of these people who spent weeks grinding the standings with the r'n'd corps and getting the skills to use the higher level agents) and as for the ones it will benefit are the people that do the scanning etc, and this seriously needs some love for a lot of the sites, they are pointless.. you get at most some BPCs that aint worth sh!t from hacking sites etc.... So moving datacores to them will push price up after the initial crash from them being sold by the hoarders...

I dont see this peeving off a lot of people if you have toons that have lots of rps built up, just cash them in in enoguh time to sell them off at a decent price and if you dont MEH! :)

If you've been in Eve any amount of time im sure you would have had something hit you.. for eg us missile users that got nerfed about 2yrs ago, if your a falcon pilot, the nerf to EWAR if your a Dread pilot... well they seriosuly suck.. A Mom pilot they got nuked not long ago.. Im sure i can name many many many more nerfs... this is just a nother change that will stop people from having stagnant toons that just farm the datacores so forcing people to actually do things to earn their isk.

Jdestars
Stars Research systems Incorporation
Posted - 2011.08.07 14:23:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Jdestars on 07/08/2011 14:28:19
Datacore conversion depend of kind of research Way : 50 RP for all except for the starship : => 150
they are already a tool ingame ... calculate ... for one division ops ...

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Research_agent give you the formula of rp per day ... just divide 50 or 150 if its starship ..
no need extra tool or webbing tool for that
in Journal Menu they are a tab with list of you R&D agent and Rp/day information ...

Celeritas 5k
Connoisseurs of Candid Coitus
Posted - 2011.08.07 17:41:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
RP are going to be removed from the game anyway, with data cores apparently being moved to exploration.

So CCP Soundwave has written, so shall it be done.



Just curious, where and when did he write this? Unless some other large volume source were added, this would muck up the t2 market in a colossal way. We're talking no t2 mod costing less than 10 mil, maybe more.

Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2011.08.07 18:16:00 - [7]
 

That´s what I was wondering.

The tech II economy is completely linked the Datacores for 90% of the gear out there. Datacores are already part of exploration so unless they add literally thousands of Datacores to exploration the market will just explode and the power will go right back to those who hold the ancient tech II BPO´s.

Drahma Daerie
Posted - 2011.08.10 03:02:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Quazal Atreides
Edited by: Quazal Atreides on 07/08/2011 13:05:27
Originally by: Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
That's going to upset a lot of people if they do that isn't it? Why do CCP keep doing things to EVE that upset the player-base?


(snip)... this is just another change that will stop people from having stagnant toons that just farm the datacores so forcing people to actually do things to earn their isk.


Actually making people do things to earn their isk without some passive isk sources (like Datacores, PI, LP) will *reduce* the number of paid accounts many players have with CCP. Having more accounts *does not equal* more time. If the game requires active participation, many players will depart because RL will prevent them from 'living' in the game. I have already left two other games that decided to *require* more active play to justify account earnings.

As a player with >5 accounts, being able to focus training and dedicate alts to specific tasks justifies the additional cost. If my friends need an Amarr armor logi pilot, I just log that toon in, I don't spend hours refitting ships and training everything...

Earning rep with R&D corps to get datacores got many players to actually *do* missions and think about geography and standings. Without it, everyone will acting like feeding Carp/monkeys/penguins at the Zoo, first one to find the site gets to fight, get ganked and the third one in gets the datacores...

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.08.11 00:57:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Celeritas 5k
Just curious, where and when did he write this?


Source is linked in the warning at the top of the Research Agent page of the wiki.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.11 01:59:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 11/08/2011 01:59:55
Originally by: the linked stuff
Player: “Some of the last changes with missions and LP value – LP value has gone down enormously. Does CCP care about that?”
S: “Yeah, there are several issues we’ve run into – Research Points is one of them; I want to rip that whole system out and fix it. The other one is LP – we need to do a revision of the store prices; they’re running into problems that a lot of other features have, they’re an old feature that hasn’t been updated to match up to the rest of the game.”

I read that as "radically change the way RP/datacores are gained", NOT as "we will remove datacore gain from research agents".
Also, not that they WILL be removed, but that he would LIKE to radically alter them.

You know, just saying.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.08.13 00:19:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Akita T
I read that as "radically change the way RP/datacores are gained", NOT as "we will remove datacore gain from research agents".
Also, not that they WILL be removed, but that he would LIKE to radically alter them.


How will CCP radically alter the way RP/datacores are gained, without affecting the current system of Research Agents granting RP-over-time which the player then cashes in for data cores?

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
they're running into problems that a lot of other feature have, they're an old feature that hasn't been updated to match up to the rest of the game.


Now perhaps he simply means that the RP and LP systems haven't been "carbonised". Or perhaps he wants to have Aurum involved in there somewhere. CCP has not been content to leave things alone, even when they're only porting code to the Carbon framework - look at the overview and the way they changed shortcuts.

I'm expecting a major overhaul of the LP and RP systems - not just updating the code, but changing the mechanics.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.08.13 00:21:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr
Mara Rinn suggested to use the wiki discussion thread but I get "Permission Errors - The action you have requested is limited to users in the group Sysops." when I try to create a login.


You don't create a login, you just login with your EVE Online account name and password.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.13 03:32:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 13/08/2011 03:33:55

Originally by: Mara Rinn
How will CCP radically alter the way RP/datacores are gained, without affecting the current system of Research Agents granting RP-over-time which the player then cashes in for data cores? [...] Now perhaps he simply means that the RP and LP systems haven't been "carbonised". Or perhaps he wants to have Aurum involved in there somewhere. CCP has not been content to leave things alone, even when they're only porting code to the Carbon framework - look at the overview and the way they changed shortcuts.
I'm expecting a major overhaul of the LP and RP systems - not just updating the code, but changing the mechanics.

I didn't say the RP-over-time has to stay untouched.
In fact, that's most likely one of the first things that will be heavily affected.
They will almost certainly want to make it so that RP gains are no longer (so much of) a passive gain, but (more of) an active gain.

For instance, instead of the current RP gain formula where only agent level, effective quality and your science skill level matters, they could reduce the influence of agent effective quality and that of your skills, increase importance of agent level, add system security to the mix as modifier, and heavily reduce the passive gain level overall.
At the same time, they could introduce a host of new R&D missions that are far more varied than the current bunch, with variable RP rewards (both for regular and bonus reward) and remove the "one per day" limitation.
All of this will effectively be turning "most RP gains are from just waiting" into "most RP gains are from running the new missions".

Of course, that's not the only way they could do it, just one of the possible ways.

Yes, they could also have AUR be a part of it, but I seriously doubt that, since it would be a major jerk move (and even if some people would be all too quick to call it "to be expected", I would still call it shocking if it would actually happen).
I don't even think CCP Soundwave knows how he wants it to work, just that he doesn't like the current "have a bunch of R&D alts passively gaining oodles of datacores while doing almost nothing" state of affairs.

As for the LP shop, I am almost willing to bet what he dislikes most is the current "fixed" nature of the LP shop offers, not the LP gains from missions themselves.
Ideally, LP shop offers would "follow the market" to some degree - when an offer is seldom taken, it should slowly ramp down in price (and raise a bit faster if taken too often when it was near rock-bottom, but then climb slower and slower as it approaches the original, starting price levels).
Bonus side-effect - if done mostly on a "per NPC corp" basis with a small degree of global level tweaking, this should encourage spreading more than anything else we have now, since all seldom-used LP shops would have a host of awesome offers (amongst some not-so-great ones), and all overused LP shops would mostly have worse offers than they have now (with a few decent ones).

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2011.08.14 06:06:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Rip Minner on 14/08/2011 06:08:27
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 13/08/2011 03:33:55

Originally by: Mara Rinn
How will CCP radically alter the way RP/datacores are gained, without affecting the current system of Research Agents granting RP-over-time which the player then cashes in for data cores? [...] Now perhaps he simply means that the RP and LP systems haven't been "carbonised". Or perhaps he wants to have Aurum involved in there somewhere. CCP has not been content to leave things alone, even when they're only porting code to the Carbon framework - look at the overview and the way they changed shortcuts.
I'm expecting a major overhaul of the LP and RP systems - not just updating the code, but changing the mechanics.

I didn't say the RP-over-time has to stay untouched.
In fact, that's most likely one of the first things that will be heavily affected.
They will almost certainly want to make it so that RP gains are no longer (so much of) a passive gain, but (more of) an active gain.

For instance, instead of the current RP gain formula where only agent level, effective quality and your science skill level matters, they could reduce the influence of agent effective quality and that of your skills, increase importance of agent level, add system security to the mix as modifier, and heavily reduce the passive gain level overall.
At the same time, they could introduce a host of new R&D missions that are far more varied than the current bunch, with variable RP rewards (both for regular and bonus reward) and remove the "one per day" limitation.
All of this will effectively be turning "most RP gains are from just waiting" into "most RP gains are from running the new missions".

Of course, that's not the only way they could do it, just one of the possible ways.

Yes, they could also have AUR be a part of it, but I seriously doubt that, since it would be a major jerk move (and even if some people would be all too quick to call it "to be expected", I would still call it shocking if it would actually happen).
I don't even think CCP Soundwave knows how he wants it to work, just that he doesn't like the current "have a bunch of R&D alts passively gaining oodles of datacores while doing almost nothing" state of affairs.

As for the LP shop, I am almost willing to bet what he dislikes most is the current "fixed" nature of the LP shop offers, not the LP gains from missions themselves.
Ideally, LP shop offers would "follow the market" to some degree - when an offer is seldom taken, it should slowly ramp down in price (and raise a bit faster if taken too often when it was near rock-bottom, but then climb slower and slower as it approaches the original, starting price levels).
Bonus side-effect - if done mostly on a "per NPC corp" basis with a small degree of global level tweaking, this should encourage spreading more than anything else we have now, since all seldom-used LP shops would have a host of awesome offers (amongst some not-so-great ones), and all overused LP shops would mostly have worse offers than they have now (with a few decent ones).


I am a fan of LP store changes like you are saying here. But I just am not a fan of Datacore changes to active play if they dont make moon goo active play in balance. As it is now you can do a mission each day for each agent and double your RP's but I doute few do that anymore with no lotto's.ugh



 

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