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Jenna Nichols
Posted - 2011.08.06 14:13:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Jenna Nichols on 06/08/2011 14:36:51
My friend and I have been playing about 4 months. We started our own corp and are doing mining and manufacturing. Today we were moving a bunch of our stuff in a Mammoth. My friend was ganked at a jump gate in .5 by a hurricane. Concord did not show up and the guy flew away with all our stuff.

? How did he get kill rights on us? My fiend wasn't afk autopliting he was warping to zero

Confused as hell!Sad

I asked the guy who did it, how he did it. his reply was: Trade Secretugh

Serpents smile
Posted - 2011.08.06 14:36:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Serpents smile on 06/08/2011 14:36:54
You really, really sure it was 0.5 and not low sec?
What system was he ganked?

There are only a few options when Concord does not punish the attacker in high sec.
Like when:

- You are in war
- You have aggressed first, either by shooting or drone aggression
- You took from the other guys can
- You killed him a few days/ weeks ago and he has kill rights on you

Cannot think of anything else. Sad

Ok one other thing I can think of, the attacker wasn't a member of your corp was he? Razz


Jenna Nichols
Posted - 2011.08.06 14:41:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Jenna Nichols on 06/08/2011 14:52:33
Edited by: Jenna Nichols on 06/08/2011 14:41:21
Uedama .5

Not at war and no kill rights. Not a member of our corp.

My friend has rage quit for the day, she says maybe foreverSad

Opened a petition

Kraven Stark
Caldari
Atavism Industries
Posted - 2011.08.06 15:49:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Jenna Nichols
Edited by: Jenna Nichols on 06/08/2011 14:52:33
Edited by: Jenna Nichols on 06/08/2011 14:41:21
Uedama .5

Not at war and no kill rights. Not a member of our corp.

My friend has rage quit for the day, she says maybe foreverSad

Opened a petition


Who was it that killed the mammoth?

Jenna Nichols
Posted - 2011.08.06 16:37:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Kraven Stark
Originally by: Jenna Nichols
Edited by: Jenna Nichols on 06/08/2011 14:52:33
Edited by: Jenna Nichols on 06/08/2011 14:41:21
Uedama .5

Not at war and no kill rights. Not a member of our corp.

My friend has rage quit for the day, she says maybe foreverSad

Opened a petition


Who was it that killed the mammoth?


Admiral Kolt

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.08.06 19:31:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: ShahFluffers on 06/08/2011 19:32:59

Is this your friend?

It looks like a suicide gank job. What you saw was probably a blinky pod warping away and not the offender's ship (because it was destroyed by CONCORD).

S3na
Amarr
Posted - 2011.08.06 20:00:00 - [7]
 

Two Hulks in one Mammoth. What did You expect ? To pass safely ?

Gankers scan everything from shuttles to battleships.

You haul 400 mil in a piece of metal holding together thanks to duck tape. It's like jumping naked onto pitch during game. They will get You and it most likely going to hurt.

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.08.06 21:33:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 06/08/2011 21:34:22
Originally by: ShahFluffers
Edited by: ShahFluffers on 06/08/2011 19:32:59

Is this your friend?

It looks like a suicide gank job. What you saw was probably a blinky pod warping away and not the offender's ship (because it was destroyed by CONCORD).

This one has no corresponding loss mail from the same timeframe so this linked ship may have been flagged or a WT.

Anyway OP it is possible that he got into warp prior to CONCORD showing up in a 0.5. Looking over his kill records he's got lots of suicide ganks in Uedama so I'm sure he knew he wasn't going to evade CONCORD in the end. However, in that sec level a Hurricane can align and warp before CONCORD spawns. They'll just spawn wherever it is that he lands and kill him there instead.

edit: maybe Eve-kill isn't the guy's main killboard. He's showing no mammoth kills on there for today, when OP said the gank occured. Anyway I CBA to investigate this foul crime.

Coeus Enderas
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.06 21:34:00 - [9]
 

For one, you had a mammoth transporting 2 hulks. never a good idea.

however, assuming you had no choice, your second mistake was the lack of a tank. i can tell you from experience that having thrown 3-4 medium shield extenders would have made that ganker hesitate. i have survived a Pandemic Legion camp in Aunenen because i had 4 shield extenders and 4 WCS. that's a lowsec region with NO concord help. i suspect if you had some tank on the mammoth it would have let your friend at least survive the first 2 volleys, which assuming he is at a gate is more than enough to let concord blast him. again assuming he didn't have kill rights.

also, you probably should have scouted for your friend. moving that much **** in a hulk is risky even in highsec, so you in a shuttle checking gates before he warped could have prevented this. if you see a hurricane idleing at a gate for a few min he's either AFK or waiting for you.

i doubt you will get your stuff back. it sucks, but you can either pick yourself up and learn or quit.

Iggy Stooge
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.08.06 21:39:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 06/08/2011 21:34:22
Originally by: ShahFluffers
Edited by: ShahFluffers on 06/08/2011 19:32:59

Is this your friend?

It looks like a suicide gank job. What you saw was probably a blinky pod warping away and not the offender's ship (because it was destroyed by CONCORD).


This one has no corresponding loss mail



It's common to not post loss mails when only NPC's are involved.

Suyoi Kurupa
Posted - 2011.08.06 21:46:00 - [11]
 

Well if that kill-mail is in fact your friend, the thing that leaps out at me is the complete lack of tank.
This is what I fly:
[Mammoth, haul]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I

EFT says EHP of just over 10k. That's more than five times the damage listed on the kill mail. And it's probably not that swell a fit even. But 10k pushes it into battleship range at the very least as far as ganks go.

Also, while I applaud your thinking with the nano fit, fact is a lot of suicide gankers have someone scanning a jump or two down major trade routes and can let the kill ships know in advance something nice is coming their way. No amount of speed or agility is going to let you get away from that in an industrial.

I've been scanned down many times flying that hauler fit, (I have target back on during runs for just that reason) but I've never been fired on. I also try to not carry more than 50 million or so in goods at once.

I mean...2 Hulks? Seriously?

Good luck!

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.08.06 21:58:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Iggy Stooge
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 06/08/2011 21:34:22
Originally by: ShahFluffers
Edited by: ShahFluffers on 06/08/2011 19:32:59

Is this your friend?

It looks like a suicide gank job. What you saw was probably a blinky pod warping away and not the offender's ship (because it was destroyed by CONCORD).


This one has no corresponding loss mail



It's common to not post loss mails when only NPC's are involved.

Unless it's automatically posted to killboards gathering data from APIs. In any event I can't find any board with a Mammoth being killed by this guy today. OP needs to provide more information.

Jenna Nichols
Posted - 2011.08.06 22:47:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Jenna Nichols on 06/08/2011 22:47:53
That wasn't my friend. He mostly lost lots of skill books he had bought ahead of time.
every thing was inside secure giant containers. "thought they were more difficult to scan?"

I don't see it on the killboard yet?

Coeus Enderas
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.06 22:54:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Coeus Enderas on 06/08/2011 22:54:18
Originally by: Jenna Nichols
Edited by: Jenna Nichols on 06/08/2011 22:47:53
That wasn't my friend. He mostly lost lots of skill books he had bought ahead of time.
every thing was inside secure giant containers. "thought they were more difficult to scan?"

I don't see it on the killboard yet?


GSC's are not harder to scan, the only difference is that if a GSC "dies" during the explosion, everything inside is gone. they also allow a quick player to deploys and pass them before they die so the stuff is not 100% lost.


Jenna Nichols
Posted - 2011.08.07 12:56:00 - [15]
 

This still is not showing up on the kill board?

011.08.06 13:33:00

Victim: Aeryn Sun Aumer
Corp: Trigenta Mining and Logistics
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Unknown
Destroyed: Mammoth
System: Uedama
Security: 0.5
Damage Taken: 1491

Involved parties:

Name: Admiral Kolt (laid the final blow)
Security: -2.6
Corp: WATAG Academy
Alliance: White Noise.
Faction: NONE
Ship: Hurricane
Weapon: 720mm Howitzer Artillery I
Damage Done: 1491


Iggy Stooge
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.08.07 14:18:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Jenna Nichols
This still is not showing up on the kill board?

011.08.06 13:33:00

Victim: Aeryn Sun Aumer
Corp: Trigenta Mining and Logistics
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Unknown
Destroyed: Mammoth
System: Uedama
Security: 0.5
Damage Taken: 1491

Involved parties:

Name: Admiral Kolt (laid the final blow)
Security: -2.6
Corp: WATAG Academy
Alliance: White Noise.
Faction: NONE
Ship: Hurricane
Weapon: 720mm Howitzer Artillery I
Damage Done: 1491




Took a bit of digging, and no, there is no loss mail (though plenty others from differant ganks, so they do get posted). Your friend isn't telling you the whole truth I believe, did she find a can of goodies on the gate and help herself?

Jenna Nichols
Posted - 2011.08.07 14:28:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Jenna Nichols on 07/08/2011 19:09:06
Edited by: Jenna Nichols on 07/08/2011 19:08:26



Took a bit of digging, and no, there is no loss mail (though plenty others from different ganks, so they do get posted). Your friend isn't telling you the whole truth I believe, did she find a can of goodies on the gate and help herself?


She didn't touch anything, she came out of warp right at gate (warping to zero) was fired upon immediately, boom she's in pod, he's laughing.

Kind of doesn't matter now, she decided to quit EVE for good. She contracted all her stuff to the corp and sent out a fair well email Sad couldn't talk her out of it.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.08.07 19:56:00 - [18]
 

She didn't have what it took.

Hello kitty online seems more like her kind of game.

Bayard Carpathi
Posted - 2011.08.07 21:25:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: foksieloy
She didn't have what it took.

Hello kitty online seems more like her kind of game.


I hate that type of smart *** comment. Problem is, it's true. Anything you fly can and will get shot down. The more it means to you, the more likely you are to loose it.

This is the game you are paying for.

Does not make it suck less when it happens though

Quebber
Posted - 2011.08.07 22:10:00 - [20]
 

Never undock in a ship you can't afford to loose and more importantly accept loosing, EVE is not safe, hisec can be safer (althought I prefer 0.0 as you know if it is blue its safe anything else not so.

ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
The Veerhouven Group
Posted - 2011.08.08 11:24:00 - [21]
 

Uedama, and the system next door, Sivala, are choke points. In other words, if you want to get from one region to another you pretty much have to go through them.

This makes them perfect for 'smash and grab' artists. Check the ship kills in those two systems some time. especially on a weekend when the US school kids are on line.

Nothing is safe there. Like an idiot I decided that I could pod through on AP a few weeks ago, but got smart bombed. Fortunately, I didn't drop too much cargo. Very Happy

There's no way to avoid it, so you just have to prepare the ship and pilot as well as possible and accept the inevitable losses as business expenses.

Niarja is nearly as bad.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.08 12:04:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 08/08/2011 12:04:24
Quote:
She didn't touch anything, she came out of warp right at gate (warping to zero) was fired upon immediately, boom she's in pod, he's laughing.

Kind of doesn't matter now, she decided to quit EVE for good. She contracted all her stuff to the corp and sent out a fair well email Sad couldn't talk her out of it.


You don't fill a ship that can be one-shot by a Thrasher with 250+ million of gear. You just don't.

Most of the stuff that was in that Mammoth could have been moved with near 100% safety through highsec in a Covops frigate (faction mods, skillbooks, etc)

There's also no good reason to move skillbooks, anywhere. Train the pre-requisites, then head 3 jumps (or whatever) to the nearest school and plug them straight in.

If he was hauling for the corp, then you've failed him by not teaching him the basics of staying alive.

EDIT: And yes .. CONCORD did show up. You can't evade them, either.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.08.08 12:20:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Bayard Carpathi
Does not make it suck less when it happens though.


It is so easy to avoid it happening, there is only one person to blame.

Jenna Nichols
Posted - 2011.08.08 13:56:00 - [24]
 

Thank you ACY GTMI that info helps.

Lady, thanks for your comments as well. Not sure you understood that we have both only been playing 4 months. So telling us we should have used a covert-ops frigate doesn't make much sense, since that is an 85 to 90 day train plan.

But good information for the future.Idea

Ilkahn
Gallente
United Aerospace Co-op
Posted - 2011.08.08 15:39:00 - [25]
 

I specifically remember emailing you attempting to recruit you as a new player. Joining an established group of experienced players is critical to establishing the basis of knowledge about the world of eve and the ways of doing things.

For example, in your members situation we would have had them set up a contract for Red Frog Freight and have the load insured.

I'm sorry about your friend, but this is why new players should get with veteran corps who can offer material support and advice instead of venturing on their own and starting a new corp (it's not wrong to do so, just makes for HUGE learning bumps sometimes).

Best of luck to you. Tell your friend (if they are RL friend) to come back (maybe sometime next week when the emo rage has worn down Very Happy).

Jenna Nichols
Posted - 2011.08.08 16:03:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Ilkahn
I specifically remember emailing you attempting to recruit you as a new player. Joining an established group of experienced players is critical to establishing the basis of knowledge about the world of eve and the ways of doing things.

For example, in your members situation we would have had them set up a contract for Red Frog Freight and have the load insured.

I'm sorry about your friend, but this is why new players should get with veteran corps who can offer material support and advice instead of venturing on their own and starting a new corp (it's not wrong to do so, just makes for HUGE learning bumps sometimes).

Best of luck to you. Tell your friend (if they are RL friend) to come back (maybe sometime next week when the emo rage has worn down Very Happy).


Hello Ilkahn, I don't remember your invite, but I would be interest now in talking to you. I did join a small player corp when I first started and they were very helpful, but there was a huge time zone difference and I ended up solo playing most of the time.

I would be very interested in closing my corp and joining an experienced corp that had players on when I'm on. EST 5pm - 11pm M-F and all weekend.

Please look me up in game.

Would be this toon 6mil SP hulk pilot and my alt 3.5mil SP Obelisk pilot.


Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.08 17:02:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 08/08/2011 17:03:49
Originally by: Jenna Nichols
Lady, thanks for your comments as well. Not sure you understood that we have both only been playing 4 months. So telling us we should have used a covert-ops frigate doesn't make much sense, since that is an 85 to 90 day train plan.


It's about 30 days to train into a covert ops, and those 30days include skills you will be acquiring anyway.

But the point is mute - if YOU can't safely transport something, then get someone else to do it for you. Eve in an MMO, afterall :) Hoping for the best, and rage-quitting when it doesn't ... isn't a great way to go through eve or life.

Courier contracts with appropriate collateral set will suffice, Red Frog Freight if you have a little (and it's really not a lot ...) more ISK to spare.

I'm really not trying to flame you ... but I would hate for Eve to become a game where you could take absolutely pointless risks like this and not have someone come and kick you in the ass for it. But you're still here .. so all hope isn't lost with you yet Razz

EDIT:
Quote:
Would be this toon 6mil SP hulk pilot and my alt 3.5mil SP Obelisk pilot

FFS why didn't you move it for him Neutral

Ilkahn
Gallente
United Aerospace Co-op
Posted - 2011.08.08 17:11:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher

... but I would hate for Eve to become a game where you could take absolutely pointless risks like this and not have someone come and kick you in the ass for it. But you're still here .. so all hope isn't lost with you yet Razz



Everyone should be allowed to move their stuff without it getting blown up so long as you mess around and get hot dropped by carriers like i did the other day ShockedLaughing

Jenna Nichols
Posted - 2011.08.08 17:40:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 08/08/2011 17:03:49
FFS why didn't you move it for him Neutral


I have two accounts but 1 PC, had already done a full load with the Obelisk and had hoped on this toon to move my Hulk. We were in the middle of moving all the corp assets about 30 jumps.

We figured since it was all hi-sec it would be fine, as long as we didn't do something stupid. Aeryn using the Mammoth was stupid (we now know). Unfortunately this turned out to be the straw that broke the camels back for Aeryn.

Me I'm not going anywhere love the game.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.08 18:42:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Jenna Nichols
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 08/08/2011 17:03:49
FFS why didn't you move it for him Neutral


I have two accounts but 1 PC


For future reference, you can log more than one account in at once, on the same PC. Alt-tab between them, or have both open in window mode. This is commonly called "dual boxing."

In particular, if you are moving stuff with a freighter, get another person (or yourself in the other window) to jump with the freighter. Put dual webs on the freighter and it will warp very quickly. Follow. Repeat. If the toon doing the webbing arrives at the next gate before the minute is up, he'll have to wait for the aggro to pass before jumping - in practice this is much (much!) less time than waiting for the freighter to align normally. If the freighter beats it through the gate just have it start aligning and jump in and web it when you land.


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