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blankseplocked Stealing from players wrecks question.
 
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Amber Green Thorn
Posted - 2011.08.05 16:59:00 - [1]
 

I understand that if I steal from another players yellow can he and his corp have the rights to shoot me (is this right?)

Thing is - how do I know that I've gone 'flashy red' to them?

If they're not in the immediate area (ie on overview) how does the owner/corp know that I've done this theft? Where does it come up on their screen?

Thanks!! )

Dave Auscent
Posted - 2011.08.05 17:18:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Amber Green Thorn
I understand that if I steal from another players yellow can he and his corp have the rights to shoot me (is this right?)

Thing is - how do I know that I've gone 'flashy red' to them?

If they're not in the immediate area (ie on overview) how does the owner/corp know that I've done this theft? Where does it come up on their screen?

Thanks!! )

You show up under their Kill Rights.

Kilrayn
Posted - 2011.08.05 17:21:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Kilrayn on 09/08/2011 20:29:40
Edited by: Kilrayn on 05/08/2011 19:46:33
There should be a place to check kill rights from your character window.

For the 2nd part, you should see an 'aggression timer' near the top left of your screen iirc. Also, if they're not in the immediate area, they may not find out.

As I said, I'm no expert on this subject, so any clarification/correction is very welcome (I don't like giving out bad info knowingly).

Edit : Removing and clarifying bad info.

Dave Auscent
Posted - 2011.08.05 17:30:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Dave Auscent on 05/08/2011 17:31:05
Edited by: Dave Auscent on 05/08/2011 17:30:01
Originally by: Kilrayn
There should be a place to check kill rights from your character window. I'm no expert on aggression rules, but I do believe his corp will also get kill rights.

For the 2nd part, you should see an 'aggression timer' near the top left of your screen iirc. Also, if they're not in the immediate area, they may not find out. If they're smart and see they have loot missing, they can check that same kill rights window to find out who they can kill.

As I said, I'm no expert on this subject, so any clarification/correction is very welcome (I don't like giving out bad info knowingly).

Corp never gets kill rights, only Fleet Members under certain circumstances.

Example, OP flips my can. I can shoot her anytime, anywhere for a month until I blow up one ship w/o Concord/Low Sec Guns getting involved. Once that is done, my kill rights are over. If she shoots back at me, it counts as aggression on her end, and anyone in my fleet can now shoot her without NPC repercussion.

Amber Green Thorn
Posted - 2011.08.05 17:33:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Amber Green Thorn on 05/08/2011 17:43:05
Thanks for answers - so basically it's pretty unlikely people will ever know that they've been stolen from unless they're 'on grid' when it happened.

If the thief stays out of sight (for 15mins is it?) then it's unlikely anybody will know. I can't believe people continually check up on their kill rights panel?? And surprised you'd not get some notification on screen.

Dave - from evewiki 'The Kill Rights system allows you to get revenge from another player who has previously destroyed your ship in Empire space (0.1 to 1.0 security systems).

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Kill_Rights

Am confused!!)Very Happy

Matalino
Posted - 2011.08.05 17:50:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Dave Auscent
Originally by: Amber Green Thorn
I understand that if I steal from another players yellow can he and his corp have the rights to shoot me (is this right?)

Thing is - how do I know that I've gone 'flashy red' to them?

If they're not in the immediate area (ie on overview) how does the owner/corp know that I've done this theft? Where does it come up on their screen?

Thanks!! )

You show up under their Kill Rights.
This is completely false. Kill rights are not granted for taking from somes can. Kill rights are granted when your ship is destroyed without you fighting back.
Originally by: Kilrayn
You should see an 'aggression timer' near the top left of your screen iirc. Also, if they're not in the immediate area, they may not find out.
This basicly all there is to it: if they don't see you on their overview, then they are unlikely to ever know that you stole from their can. The agression timer is only 15 minutes, so there is little risk in taking from someone else's can.

Amber Green Thorn
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:00:00 - [7]
 

Thanks Matalino!!

I've read over the guides on the evelopedia and they are not exactly straight forward and I tend to think pretty incomplete in the info they provide.

Please devs - a new player ought to be able to understand the high sec rules of engagement with a decent guide. It's not that they're brutally complicated but do it better.

I'm sure lots of noobs have gone - "wtf!! what happened there?? - my ship!!!!" - then elected to leave the game......

Will persevere. Thanks all

Matalino
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:17:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Amber Green Thorn
I've read over the guides on the evelopedia and they are not exactly straight forward and I tend to think pretty incomplete in the info they provide.
Evelopedia is user editable. So, if it needs to be improved, you are able to suggest improvements directly.

What has you confused about the evelopedia articles?

Amber Green Thorn
Posted - 2011.08.05 19:17:00 - [9]
 

Matalino, thanks

Can Flipping for example

Pretty incomplete really. Can't CCP provide a complete guide instead of being written by a player (with the best of intentions) who assumes the reader may know the rest and has to fill in the dots.

The above guide does not mention the consequences of that action: No mention of corp participation in hunting down the thief nor any relevant link. In fact the 'relevant link' in the above article refers to Concord not Corp retalition.




Matalino
Posted - 2011.08.05 19:33:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Amber Green Thorn
Matalino, thanks

Can Flipping for example

Pretty incomplete really. Can't CCP provide a complete guide instead of being written by a player (with the best of intentions) who assumes the reader may know the rest and has to fill in the dots.

The above guide does not mention the consequences of that action: No mention of corp participation in hunting down the thief nor any relevant link. In fact the 'relevant link' in the above article refers to Concord not Corp retalition.
That article describes a tactic, not a game mechanic.

If you want a full description of container and wreck ownership read this article.

I agree that the Can Flipping article should have linked to the Criminal Flagging System article rather than the Aggression Timer article. I have submitted an update to the Can Flipping article that includes links to those supporting articles.

Amber Green Thorn
Posted - 2011.08.05 20:01:00 - [11]
 

Again thanks M-

So getting back to the OP's OQ Very Happy you can steal from cans/wrecks and not get into trouble as long as you stay out of sight from the owner of the can/wreck and his/her corp!!!!

As there is no UI alert to tell them it's happened the only way they know is when you're all flashy red and 'on grid' with any of them.

Phew!!Wink

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.05 21:29:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Dave Auscent
Corp never gets kill rights, only Fleet Members under certain circumstances.

Example, OP flips my can. I can shoot her anytime, anywhere for a month until I blow up one ship w/o Concord/Low Sec Guns getting involved. Once that is done, my kill rights are over. If she shoots back at me, it counts as aggression on her end, and anyone in my fleet can now shoot her without NPC repercussion.


I hope you're making some sort of joke here, right?

There's not a single part of that which is even remotely right

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.05 21:33:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 05/08/2011 21:34:57
Originally by: Amber Green Thorn
Again thanks M-

So getting back to the OP's OQ Very Happy you can steal from cans/wrecks and not get into trouble as long as you stay out of sight from the owner of the can/wreck and his/her corp!!!!

As there is no UI alert to tell them it's happened the only way they know is when you're all flashy red and 'on grid' with any of them.

Phew!!Wink


In most instances, yes. Bear in mind however:

- You wont know if the perp has left it as bait, is in a cloaked ship on grid watching.

- Clever can baiters will just drop random cans all over, and watch LOCAL. When you steal from them, they get the outlaw flag against your picture, just like if a player had gone GCC. This, and a bit of DSCAN magic, ought to tell the baiter where the red ship is likely to be.

tl;dr you're pretty much OK unless its a trap. In which case you're not.

Amber Green Thorn
Posted - 2011.08.06 01:00:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Amber Green Thorn on 06/08/2011 01:01:27
- Clever can baiters will just drop random cans all over, and watch LOCAL. When you steal from them, they get the outlaw flag against your picture, just like if a player had gone GCC. This, and a bit of DSCAN magic, ought to tell the baiter where the red ship is likely to be.

Hate to ask this but do you mean to say that the outlaw flag will be seen in the Local channel with a 'mark' on the offending player but not on the overview??!

Matalino
Posted - 2011.08.06 02:08:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Amber Green Thorn
Hate to ask this but do you mean to say that the outlaw flag will be seen in the Local channel with a 'mark' on the offending player but not on the overview??!
It can be seen on both Local channel and the overview. However, there is a delay before it appears in local, so the tactic might not work as well as the attacker might hope.

Serpents smile
Posted - 2011.08.06 14:44:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Amber Green Thorn
Can't CCP provide a complete guide...



That made me laugh. Hard. Which is, in it self sad. Crying or Very sad Fekk you ccp, fekk you.Evil or Very Mad

Anywho...
What you are looking for is isk 2.0 the guide.

Whiff
Posted - 2011.08.06 23:33:00 - [17]
 

ShockedI think that if CCP's all encompassing Pedia thing actually described the rules properly, then this would've been a two thread post tops, ie:

1 question then .....
2 answer.





Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
Posted - 2011.08.07 09:29:00 - [18]
 

IIRC it IS covered in the tutorials, albeit it is just one of piece of a lot of information.

More importantly, besides canflipping being forbidden in starter systems,you do get a warning if you really want to proceed with the criminal act of stealing from someones can.
There is only so much one can do for beginners; making them READ those pop-up notices (with the word WARNING! in big fat letters on the top of them) is not to be one of those things.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.08 12:16:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Whiff
ShockedI think that if CCP's all encompassing Pedia thing actually described the rules properly, then this would've been a two thread post tops, ie:

1 question then .....
2 answer.


1. Open a can
2. Try to take something
3. "YOU WILL BE ABLE TO BE SHOT IF YOU DO THIS!! DO YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO LET THE OWNER AND HIS ENTIRE CORP BE ABLE TO SHOOT YOU?? SERIOUSLY ... OVER A SMALL ARMOR REPAIRER I!?!?"

Or words to that effect. It's really quite clear.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
Posted - 2011.08.09 17:33:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Whiff
ShockedI think that if CCP's all encompassing Pedia thing actually described the rules properly, then this would've been a two thread post tops, ie:

1 question then .....
2 answer.




Nah, there are still hundreds of know-it-alls that really don't, but will post anyway. Some of them found this thread.



 

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