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baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.17 09:19:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Dinsdale Pirannha

Would I go cruising out in low/null in a BS looking for a fight? Of course not. A T2 cruiser gets into and out of trouble way faster.




You should try it sometime, they can get shockingly fast even by cruiser standards.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.17 10:50:00 - [122]
 

I must have been asleep when i got this some time ago then, according to the OP:

Victim: [censored]
Corp: [censored]
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Unknown
Destroyed: Vagabond
System: [censored]
Security: 0.4
Damage Taken: 14062

Involved parties:

Name: Headerman (laid the final blow)
Security: 4.4
Corp: [censored]
Alliance: [censored]
Faction: NONE
Ship: Typhoon
Weapon: 800mm Repeating Artillery I
Damage Done: 14062


Destroyed items:

Barrage M, Qty: 686 (Cargo)
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters I
Tracking Enhancer II
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Scourge Precision Heavy Missile, Qty: 49 (Cargo)
Barrage M, Qty: 441
Warrior II (Drone Bay)
Overdrive Injector System II
Republic Fleet EMP M, Qty: 1190 (Cargo)
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Qty: 2
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Dropped items:

Havoc Precision Heavy Missile, Qty: 49 (Cargo)
Gyrostabilizer II, Qty: 2
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction, Qty: 2
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Thunderbolt Precision Heavy Missile, Qty: 49 (Cargo)
Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile, Qty: 335 (Cargo)
Barrage M, Qty: 294
Warrior II, Qty: 4 (Drone Bay)
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Qty: 3
Widowmaker Precision Heavy Missile, Qty: 49 (Cargo)


Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:38:00 - [123]
 

Kudos, nice killmail. Pinning down a vagabond isn't easy in the best of circumstances. Doing it in a battleship is rather impressive -- especially in a solo kill.

If you don't mind my asking, what made you choose to go with autocannons on that Typhoon? I normally see it used as a torpedo platform.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:43:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 18:59:51
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 18:54:58
Originally by: BadPlebe
Originally by: Helena Vexar

Wow, that paragraph is full of all kinds of neat assumptions, unfortunately none of them play out in pvp situations like you say.

A cane does not even need to have a prop mod activated under 5000ms for my dps to drop by at least half against him, due to the horrible tracking on large pulse lasers. The closer he gets to my BS the less damage I do, until I do nothing at all.

A heavy neut against a Cane will take forever to cap him out when all he is using that requires cap is a prop mod, web and jammer. So that's out of the question in terms of saving the day.

No matter what type of prop mod I have on, his will always be more effective and therefore unless I can completely shut his down, which even then it will not save me because chances are my prop mod is also shut down by a scrammer, I will not be able to out run him.

So basically, from actual pvp experience, and not fantasy experience, thats a whole bunch of bull**** you just spewed.

And a heavy neut is going to push right out to where they are orbiting? Do you really think Canes are speed tanking me at 15km you moron? They are not orbiting me at all, they are sitting next to my god damn ship painting "BLOW ME" on my ships hull, while smoking a cigar and banging a hooker! They are sitting at 1000 ms raping me in the tail pipe!




So, to start, let's look at my pvp credentials (since apparently that's required for weighing in on this discussion)
Some highlights:
-Around 1,700th on battleclinic
-Lowsec PvP
-Sucess solo-ing in pvpppp in a dual rep dominix/other battleships
-HG slaves/HG crystals/HG snakes
-2007 character

so I'm not some noob scrub who just saw his first wardec in highsec (nor am I garmon/godscoldblood/insert well known pvper)

Anyway Helena, a simple look into EFT will show that you are full of it. consider the following ships:
Shield cane, standard:
highs: 425's + 2 med neuts
mids: mwd invuln LSE longpoint
Lows: 3 gyro, 2 TE, DCU II
rigs: 3 CDFE I
drones: warrior II
DPS with hail and damage implants: 840 (w/o heat)
Sig Radius: 299
EHP on invuln heat (not possible if neuted out): 53.6K

Geddon: Proving a point:
Highs: NO GUNS! NOT 1 GODDAMN GUN, 1 heavy neut
Mids: longpoint web cap booster
lows: 1 DCU II, 2 EANM, 2 1600 RT plates, 3 EMPTY SLOTS
drones: 5 Ogre II
DPS: 317
EHP (HG slaves + zet5000): 167.1k

as you can see, the geddon is reminiscent of a 3 heat sink geddon (use coreli-C's instead of EANM for CPU) and would be trying to maximize gun DPS, IF IT HAD GUNS ON IT. Even this ganky version of the geddon will outslug a shield cane on drone damage alone.

Check out the Maths: 167.1k EHP/840 DPS = 198.92 seconds to kill
53.6K EHP/317 DPS = 169.08 seconds to kill



Wow, and you don't think that your extensive calculations come to that result because of the full set of slaves on the geddon toon, and not so on the cane toon, eh? That was quite genius.

The rest of you are a great example of the human race. Monkey see, monkey do. Follow the pack, attack the same target the rest of the hyena mob attack, and when in Rome, do as the Romans do

My battle clinic sucks, because unlike the majority of you, I go out to pvp and have fun, I take risks in my ships and I don't hide behind a fleet the entire time I pvp. I like solo pvp and with militia, that gets you killed a lot. So you can assume whatever the hell you want about my pvp skills. My ships are fitted quite well for pvp, without you going through and finding my pve fits and turning the situation around to make it seem like I have crap fits. Notice I have a much better kill ratio 1v1 in smaller ships!

Test my theory, get a good pvp friend to grab his cane, fit a geddon and slug it out. When you lose the question will be answered.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.17 19:20:00 - [125]
 

Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 17/08/2011 19:22:38
Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 17/08/2011 19:21:15
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Wow, and you don't think that your extensive calculations come to that result because of the full set of slaves on the geddon toon, and not so on the cane toon, eh? That was quite genius


PLEASE PLEASE tell me you are trolling, right?

I mean, you ARE actually trolling? Please? I don't want to live in a world with anyone this stupid. Did you SEE the assumptions he made?

He has NO guns fit.
He has THREE empty low slots.
If you run the math without slaves, you'll see it's a close race (narrowly loses against a max skill cane pilot ..... most are no-where near). Not to mention the cane gets neuted out before that, giving him a giant ****ing EM/Therm hole to the drones or lasers you'd be using.

So we have a half fit, worst for purpose, Tier 1, Geddon, STILL going toe-to-toe with your magical ****ing Hurricane of doom.

I think he proved the point. You're just way, WAY too dumb to see it.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:06:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 20:29:44
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 20:25:12
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 17/08/2011 19:22:38
Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 17/08/2011 19:21:15
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Wow, and you don't think that your extensive calculations come to that result because of the full set of slaves on the geddon toon, and not so on the cane toon, eh? That was quite genius


PLEASE PLEASE tell me you are trolling, right?

I mean, you ARE actually trolling? Please? I don't want to live in a world with anyone this stupid. Did you SEE the assumptions he made?

He has NO guns fit.
He has THREE empty low slots.
If you run the math without slaves, you'll see it's a close race (narrowly loses against a max skill cane pilot ..... most are no-where near). Not to mention the cane gets neuted out before that, giving him a giant ****ing EM/Therm hole to the drones or lasers you'd be using.

So we have a half fit, worst for purpose, Tier 1, Geddon, STILL going toe-to-toe with your magical ****ing Hurricane of doom.

I think he proved the point. You're just way, WAY too dumb to see it.


You do understand that a geddon with a full compliment of t2 guns, all skills lvl 5 in most cases does not or just barley out dps's a cane right? Add that to the fact that the canes damage will hit the geddon much harder than the other way around, due to damage types inflicted by both ships.

What you EFT warriors fail to understand - and I actually stated this in one of my first paragraphs in this forum - is that on paper a battleship WILL out perfrom a BC in many cases, but EFT does not calculate mobility, which any good pvper knows is the ultimate deciding factor 1v1. When 75 percent of my dps fails to land on target, because the cane is able to stay on top of me, EFT means jack ****.

For those of you who argue I should be able to stay out of range, I know you have no clue what you are talking about, because a trimarked plated geddon with max nav skills barley moves at 800ms under a MWD. A cane can double that easily and has no need to worry about cap for his guns. So a neut is not gonna ruin his day. I have also never met an active tanked pvp cane, so saying it's gonna stop their tank is foolsih.

You all show me with every word that you type how little real solo pvp experience you have and it's comical that your killboards all support that. Go ahead and flame me, I could care less. I have tested the theory with several militia members and we have all come to the same conclusion.

Onictus
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:09:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 20:09:46
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 17/08/2011 19:22:38
Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 17/08/2011 19:21:15
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Wow, and you don't think that your extensive calculations come to that result because of the full set of slaves on the geddon toon, and not so on the cane toon, eh? That was quite genius


PLEASE PLEASE tell me you are trolling, right?

I mean, you ARE actually trolling? Please? I don't want to live in a world with anyone this stupid. Did you SEE the assumptions he made?

He has NO guns fit.
He has THREE empty low slots.
If you run the math without slaves, you'll see it's a close race (narrowly loses against a max skill cane pilot ..... most are no-where near). Not to mention the cane gets neuted out before that, giving him a giant ****ing EM/Therm hole to the drones or lasers you'd be using.

So we have a half fit, worst for purpose, Tier 1, Geddon, STILL going toe-to-toe with your magical ****ing Hurricane of doom.

I think he proved the point. You're just way, WAY too dumb to see it.


You do understand that a geddon with a full compliment of t2 guns, all skills lvl 5 in most cases does not or just barley out dps's a cane right? add that to the fact that the canes damage hits the geddon alot harder than the other way around due to damage types inflicted by both ships.


The gheddon only needs to do a 1/4 of the damage is the fit isn't terrible.

The last thing I worry about in a buffer fitted PvP BS is a solo hurricane......4 of them, maybe, but solo he better grab his cheeks and hold on.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:15:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 20:42:59
Originally by: Onictus
Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 20:09:46
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 17/08/2011 19:22:38
Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 17/08/2011 19:21:15
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Wow, and you don't think that your extensive calculations come to that result because of the full set of slaves on the geddon toon, and not so on the cane toon, eh? That was quite genius


PLEASE PLEASE tell me you are trolling, right?

I mean, you ARE actually trolling? Please? I don't want to live in a world with anyone this stupid. Did you SEE the assumptions he made?

He has NO guns fit.
He has THREE empty low slots.
If you run the math without slaves, you'll see it's a close race (narrowly loses against a max skill cane pilot ..... most are no-where near). Not to mention the cane gets neuted out before that, giving him a giant ****ing EM/Therm hole to the drones or lasers you'd be using.

So we have a half fit, worst for purpose, Tier 1, Geddon, STILL going toe-to-toe with your magical ****ing Hurricane of doom.

I think he proved the point. You're just way, WAY too dumb to see it.


You do understand that a geddon with a full compliment of t2 guns, all skills lvl 5 in most cases does not or just barley out dps's a cane right? add that to the fact that the canes damage hits the geddon alot harder than the other way around due to damage types inflicted by both ships.


The gheddon only needs to do a 1/4 of the damage is the fit isn't terrible.

The last thing I worry about in a buffer fitted PvP BS is a solo hurricane......4 of them, maybe, but solo he better grab his cheeks and hold on.


I know it sounds this way on paper, really I understand. If we were talking about a mega or a domi I would agree with you. But I am telling you, a hurricane will destroy any amarr bs 1v1 unless the pilot is a complete moron. I am asking you all to put down EFT and try it, then you can flame me.

You need to remember, solo canes are mostly armor fitted because of the fact that they need mid slots for solo modules the majority of the time. My damage against their armor is already gonna have 65 to 70 percent cut off the top due to resists from em and therm on armor. Add the extra damage being cut off by large turret tracking and I'm doing 80ish percent less damage than what I would appear to be doing on paper. Couple that with the fact that a cane is dishing out explosive and kinetic damage which wrecks armor. It evens out in the end to the cane having a huge advantage.

The same argument applies when putting a bait prophecy against a cane. The prophecy may have damn near BS grade armor and EHP, but the cane will still tear it to shreds because in pvp offense beats defense, and the prohpecy does not have the damage to kill the cane fast enough, even with all it's EHP, against the hurricanes massive dps!

Onictus
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:39:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 20:48:59
Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 20:46:27
Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 20:40:04
Armor is the solo fit?


I've run across one in the 9 months I've been playing, AND I happen to be a Hurricane pilot as well.

First, armor canes only go 1,100(ish) m/s with MWD active, and that means HUGE friggin sig bloom.
Second, a 1600mm plated Cane is only going to have 220mm guns, as the plate eats up the vast majority of its grid, and you absolutely need dual neuts and a scram.
Third, becuse of the armor tank that cane IS NOT running x3 Gyro stabilizers or Tracking enhancers, so he is in fall-off at 3000m and is going to be struggling for 350DPS....while he is orbiting as close and as fast as possible, with a barely fit that is just on the south end of cap stable.

Go look up a Hellcat fit baddon, I've lost a couple of 90k eHP Myrms to them.

Edit,

My mistake, I got the hulls mixed up.

If you are soloiing a three mid BS without a web, mwd and scram, it's not the hull's problem, you should be able to stop anything that gets under you guns in its tracks, or you are flying the wrong hull.

and of course the Prophesy has a BS level tank...that IS the point of the bait ship after all.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:50:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 21:06:44
Originally by: Onictus
Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 20:40:04
Armor is the solo fit?


I've run across one in the 9 months I've been playing, AND I happen to be a Hurricane pilot as well.

First, armor canes only go 1,100(ish) m/s with MWD active, and that means HUGE friggin sig bloom.
Second, a 1600mm plated Cane is only going to have 220mm guns, as the plate eats up the vast majority of its grid, and you absolutely need dual neuts and a scram.
Third, becuse of the armor tank that cane IS NOT running x3 Gyro stabilizers or Tracking enhancers, so he is in fall-off at 3000m and is going to be struggling for 350DPS....while he is orbiting as close and as fast as possible, with a barely fit that is just on the south end of cap stable.

So you are telling me that you are flying the best T1 BS tank in the game against the slowest varient of a Hurri out there, that is BEGGING to get ripped up by large guns because of a) a poor transversal, and b) at 2800meter sig radius

and its the hull's issue?


Go look up a Hellcat fit baddon, I've lost a couple of 90k eHP Myrms to them.


Oh I completely understand beating a myrm would be short work for an amarr bs, because of their active tank and cap usage on their guns a neut would devistate them. But canes dont use cap at all while shooting, so putting together a fit thats not cap stable would be tough to do on a buffer cane.

And your argument holds up in terms of mobility and trouble staying within optimal, only if the cane were facing a smaller or equal sized ship, but getting to 500ms and staying there against a bs, is not hard to do at all for an armor cane.

The cap required to run a mwd on a geddon is massive, I already have to field a cap booster to just run the neut and guns, let alone the mwd long enough to just keep SOME range on a cane.

As soon as the cane gets within 9000 hes gonna scram and shut that off, and even if we are both forced to run at impulse from that point, he would still be much faster!

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:52:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 20:56:00
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 20:54:11
Originally by: Onictus
Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 20:48:59
Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 20:46:27
Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 20:40:04
Armor is the solo fit?


I've run across one in the 9 months I've been playing, AND I happen to be a Hurricane pilot as well.

First, armor canes only go 1,100(ish) m/s with MWD active, and that means HUGE friggin sig bloom.
Second, a 1600mm plated Cane is only going to have 220mm guns, as the plate eats up the vast majority of its grid, and you absolutely need dual neuts and a scram.
Third, becuse of the armor tank that cane IS NOT running x3 Gyro stabilizers or Tracking enhancers, so he is in fall-off at 3000m and is going to be struggling for 350DPS....while he is orbiting as close and as fast as possible, with a barely fit that is just on the south end of cap stable.

Go look up a Hellcat fit baddon, I've lost a couple of 90k eHP Myrms to them.

Edit,

My mistake, I got the hulls mixed up.

If you are soloiing a three mid BS without a web, mwd and scram, it's not the hull's problem, you should be able to stop anything that gets under you guns in its tracks, or you are flying the wrong hull.

and of course the Prophesy has a BS level tank...that IS the point of the bait ship after all.



If I have a mwd web and scram, with no cap booster, how would I stop him in his tracks? He will have a scram and web also, and we would both be forced to run at impulse speed, in which his will be faster, so how is it that he still will not be gaining on me? Once he got to under 1000 ms he would stay there and I would be doing literally nothing to him from that point forward. Game over. And if you think the crappy em therm damage of amarr guns will kill a cane before he gets in close, you are nieve at best

And the point about the prophecy was that it is the same situtation as the bs verse the cane. Alot of ehp does not mean a win verse a cane.

Onictus
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:54:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 21:00:23
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Originally by: Onictus
Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 20:40:04
Armor is the solo fit?


I've run across one in the 9 months I've been playing, AND I happen to be a Hurricane pilot as well.

First, armor canes only go 1,100(ish) m/s with MWD active, and that means HUGE friggin sig bloom.
Second, a 1600mm plated Cane is only going to have 220mm guns, as the plate eats up the vast majority of its grid, and you absolutely need dual neuts and a scram.
Third, becuse of the armor tank that cane IS NOT running x3 Gyro stabilizers or Tracking enhancers, so he is in fall-off at 3000m and is going to be struggling for 350DPS....while he is orbiting as close and as fast as possible, with a barely fit that is just on the south end of cap stable.

So you are telling me that you are flying the best T1 BS tank in the game against the slowest varient of a Hurri out there, that is BEGGING to get ripped up by large guns because of a) a poor transversal, and b) at 2800meter sig radius

and its the hull's issue?


Go look up a Hellcat fit baddon, I've lost a couple of 90k eHP Myrms to them.


Oh I completely understand beating a myrm would be short work for an amarr bs, because of their active tank and cap usage on their guns a neut would devistate them. But canes dont use cap at all while shooting, so putting together a fit thats not cap stable would be tough to do on a buffer cane.

And your argument holds up in terms of mobility and trouble staying with optimal, only if the cane were facing a smaller or equal sized ship, but getting to 500ms and staying there against a bs, is not hard to do at all for an armor cane.

The cap required to run a mwd on a geddon is massive, I already have to field a cap booster to just run the neut and guns, let alone the mwd long enough to just keep SOME range on a cane.

As soon as the cane gets within 9000 hes gonna scram and shut that off, and even if we are both forced to run at impulse from that point, he would still be much faster!


I don't fly active myrms usually, they are almost universally buffer fits.

That is where you are wrong, "at impulse" an armor cane is going under 200m/s ....that is the nature of plates and trimarks, they MIGHT hit 200, but than you SHOULD be able to match his course, and melt his face off.


.....and seriously EM is threm is fine against Matar armor, usually thermal has a hole because you have to plug the explosive, and against shields, they have less then 50% resists against EM once you kill their hardeners with neutes


Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:58:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 21:00:32
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 20:59:05
Originally by: Onictus
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Originally by: Onictus
Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 20:40:04
Armor is the solo fit?


I've run across one in the 9 months I've been playing, AND I happen to be a Hurricane pilot as well.

First, armor canes only go 1,100(ish) m/s with MWD active, and that means HUGE friggin sig bloom.
Second, a 1600mm plated Cane is only going to have 220mm guns, as the plate eats up the vast majority of its grid, and you absolutely need dual neuts and a scram.
Third, becuse of the armor tank that cane IS NOT running x3 Gyro stabilizers or Tracking enhancers, so he is in fall-off at 3000m and is going to be struggling for 350DPS....while he is orbiting as close and as fast as possible, with a barely fit that is just on the south end of cap stable.

So you are telling me that you are flying the best T1 BS tank in the game against the slowest varient of a Hurri out there, that is BEGGING to get ripped up by large guns because of a) a poor transversal, and b) at 2800meter sig radius

and its the hull's issue?


Go look up a Hellcat fit baddon, I've lost a couple of 90k eHP Myrms to them.


Oh I completely understand beating a myrm would be short work for an amarr bs, because of their active tank and cap usage on their guns a neut would devistate them. But canes dont use cap at all while shooting, so putting together a fit thats not cap stable would be tough to do on a buffer cane.

And your argument holds up in terms of mobility and trouble staying with optimal, only if the cane were facing a smaller or equal sized ship, but getting to 500ms and staying there against a bs, is not hard to do at all for an armor cane.

The cap required to run a mwd on a geddon is massive, I already have to field a cap booster to just run the neut and guns, let alone the mwd long enough to just keep SOME range on a cane.

As soon as the cane gets within 9000 hes gonna scram and shut that off, and even if we are both forced to run at impulse from that point, he would still be much faster!


I don't fly active myrms usually, they are almost universally buffer fits.

That is where you are wrong, "at impulse" an armor cane is going under 200m/s ....that is the nature of plates and trimarks, they MIGHT hit 200, but than you SHOULD be able to match his course, and melt his face off.




Myrm buffer tank? Thats funny because that would be wasting their second ship attribute which applies to active tank, and I have never seen a buffer pvp myrm before.

That being said, the impulse speed of a BS is not the same or even close to the impulse of a minmitar battlecruiser. You need to do more research. By impulse I mean the base speed of a ship with no propulsion module activated.

And did you forget that the amarr BS will be plated and trimarked as well? At nav and armor rigs 5 my geddon moves at about 140 ms at impulse if I remember correctly. It is definatly in the low 100s

Onictus
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:04:00 - [134]
 

You have obviously never flow Gallente, you fly buffer, in all its slowness, because dual medium neuts will run you out of all of the cap charges you can carry (12) in less then 2 minutes

Seriously I'm telling you an armor cane ONLY has an 80m/s advantage on you and you can't hit this?


Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:09:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Onictus
You have obviously never flow Gallente, you fly buffer, in all its slowness, because dual medium neuts will run you out of all of the cap charges you can carry (12) in less then 2 minutes

Seriously I'm telling you an armor cane ONLY has an 80m/s advantage on you and you can't hit this?




Hitting the ship on it's way in is not the issue, hitting it once it gets to its safe distance of 1000ms, where I do 0 dps from that point forward is.... And I dont care what any of you say, I would bet my life that none of you would kill a cane before it could get in that close using lasers.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:11:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Onictus
You have obviously never flow Gallente, you fly buffer, in all its slowness, because dual medium neuts will run you out of all of the cap charges you can carry (12) in less then 2 minutes

Seriously I'm telling you an armor cane ONLY has an 80m/s advantage on you and you can't hit this?




I have seen myrms tank for long periods of time with two reppers neuts and cap boosters, against multiple hard hitting opponents. The myrm as well as many gallente ships are designed for active tank

Onictus
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:13:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar
Originally by: Onictus
You have obviously never flow Gallente, you fly buffer, in all its slowness, because dual medium neuts will run you out of all of the cap charges you can carry (12) in less then 2 minutes

Seriously I'm telling you an armor cane ONLY has an 80m/s advantage on you and you can't hit this?




Hitting the ship on it's way in is not the issue, hitting it once it gets to its safe distance of 1000ms, where I do 0 dps from that point forward is.... And I dont care what any of you say, I would bet my life that none of you would kill a cane before it could get in that close using lasers.


ROFL

Ever heard of matching trajectory? Its easy, look which way they are flying, and fly the same way.....this reduces the traversal down to where you can hit them. If it doesn't you need to look at your fit, because you are doing it wrong.

Onictus
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:16:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar
Originally by: Onictus
You have obviously never flow Gallente, you fly buffer, in all its slowness, because dual medium neuts will run you out of all of the cap charges you can carry (12) in less then 2 minutes

Seriously I'm telling you an armor cane ONLY has an 80m/s advantage on you and you can't hit this?




I have seen myrms tank for long periods of time with two reppers neuts and cap boosters, against multiple hard hitting opponents. The myrm as well as many gallente ships are designed for active tank


Yeah, go try it, you will have about as much luck as you do flying that Gheddon solo.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:18:00 - [139]
 

You guys seem to have this idea that I am losing in a 1v1 slug fest at 15km with a cane... That is not gonna happen, no cane is gonna sit at a BS's optimal and go for a fair fight! They are getting in under my guns and staying there where I can not hit them. There is only one way I can see stopping that, and it's by fitting an AB instead of a mwd, which messes me up in just about every other aspect.

If you don't belive me, let someone get under 1000ms and try to hit them! Now try to stop a cane from getitng there in a bs with three mid slots or even 4. GOOD LUCK

Onictus
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:20:00 - [140]
 

Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 21:21:34
Originally by: Helena Vexar
You guys seem to have this idea that I am losing in a 1v1 slug fest at 15km with a cane... That is not gonna happen, no cane is gonna sit at a BS's optimal and go for a fair fight! They are getting in under my guns and staying there where I can not hit them. There is only one way I can see stopping that, and it's by fitting an AB instead of a mwd, which messes me up in just about every other aspect.

If you don't belive me, let someone get under 1000ms and try to hit them! Now try to stop a cane from getitng there in a bs with three mid slots or even 4. GOOD LUCK


You act like most of us DON'T do this with railguns, or arty cannons.

No one is going to sit there are hand it to you, you have to out fly them, which means you can't park and likely you can't just set an orbit.......and why in god's name would an AC/armor cane sit at 5 times optimal?

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:21:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Onictus
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Originally by: Onictus
You have obviously never flow Gallente, you fly buffer, in all its slowness, because dual medium neuts will run you out of all of the cap charges you can carry (12) in less then 2 minutes

Seriously I'm telling you an armor cane ONLY has an 80m/s advantage on you and you can't hit this?




Hitting the ship on it's way in is not the issue, hitting it once it gets to its safe distance of 1000ms, where I do 0 dps from that point forward is.... And I dont care what any of you say, I would bet my life that none of you would kill a cane before it could get in that close using lasers.


ROFL

Ever heard of matching trajectory? Its easy, look which way they are flying, and fly the same way.....this reduces the traversal down to where you can hit them. If it doesn't you need to look at your fit, because you are doing it wrong.


under 1000 ms transversal is not the issue anymore. Both ships can be stopped, and I would not hit the target with large guns at 500ms. Please go try it, and stfu. I know none of you have

Milonia
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:22:00 - [142]
 

This troll gets a 9/10 IMO. Bravo Helena! You trolled us good!

Onictus
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:23:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar
Originally by: Onictus
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Originally by: Onictus
You have obviously never flow Gallente, you fly buffer, in all its slowness, because dual medium neuts will run you out of all of the cap charges you can carry (12) in less then 2 minutes

Seriously I'm telling you an armor cane ONLY has an 80m/s advantage on you and you can't hit this?




Hitting the ship on it's way in is not the issue, hitting it once it gets to its safe distance of 1000ms, where I do 0 dps from that point forward is.... And I dont care what any of you say, I would bet my life that none of you would kill a cane before it could get in that close using lasers.


ROFL

Ever heard of matching trajectory? Its easy, look which way they are flying, and fly the same way.....this reduces the traversal down to where you can hit them. If it doesn't you need to look at your fit, because you are doing it wrong.


under 1000 ms transversal is not the issue anymore. Both ships can be stopped, and I would not hit the target with large guns at 500ms. Please go try it, and stfu. I know none of you have


You can't even make up your mind.

Agreed 8/10 on the troll.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:24:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Onictus
Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 21:21:34
Originally by: Helena Vexar
You guys seem to have this idea that I am losing in a 1v1 slug fest at 15km with a cane... That is not gonna happen, no cane is gonna sit at a BS's optimal and go for a fair fight! They are getting in under my guns and staying there where I can not hit them. There is only one way I can see stopping that, and it's by fitting an AB instead of a mwd, which messes me up in just about every other aspect.

If you don't belive me, let someone get under 1000ms and try to hit them! Now try to stop a cane from getitng there in a bs with three mid slots or even 4. GOOD LUCK


You act like most of us DON'T do this with railguns, or arty cannons.

No one is going to sit there are hand it to you, you have to out fly them, which means you can't park and likely you can't just set an orbit.......and why in god's name would an AC/armor cane sit at 5 times optimal?


Ok what are you having trouble understanding about a BS not having the speed or mobility to out move anything? Try this concept in your head. If you can't beat the speed of ur target, if you cant beat the speed of your targets turning ability, how do you plan to out anything them??? I dont care how fancy your clicking skills are, if you dont have the power under the hood, your not gonna out mobilise the target

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:29:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 21:29:56
I never said transversal velocity was the issue. Try and keep up. BOTH SHIPS STOPPED. Both ships 500ms from each other. One ship using large lasers. The other is a hurricane. NO TRANSVERSAL BECAUSE NO SHIPS ARE MOVING. Try to hit the hurricane in the bs. When you have done this, come back on the forum and apologise

Onictus
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:30:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar
Originally by: Onictus
Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 21:21:34
Originally by: Helena Vexar
You guys seem to have this idea that I am losing in a 1v1 slug fest at 15km with a cane... That is not gonna happen, no cane is gonna sit at a BS's optimal and go for a fair fight! They are getting in under my guns and staying there where I can not hit them. There is only one way I can see stopping that, and it's by fitting an AB instead of a mwd, which messes me up in just about every other aspect.

If you don't belive me, let someone get under 1000ms and try to hit them! Now try to stop a cane from getitng there in a bs with three mid slots or even 4. GOOD LUCK


You act like most of us DON'T do this with railguns, or arty cannons.

No one is going to sit there are hand it to you, you have to out fly them, which means you can't park and likely you can't just set an orbit.......and why in god's name would an AC/armor cane sit at 5 times optimal?


Ok what are you having trouble understanding about a BS not having the speed or mobility to out move anything? Try this concept in your head. If you can't beat the speed of ur target, if you cant beat the speed of your targets turning ability, how do you plan to out anything them??? I dont care how fancy your clicking skills are, if you dont have the power under the hood, your not gonna out mobilise the target


Ahh yes, tell me what else I'm missing.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:32:00 - [147]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 21:34:46
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 21:32:45
Originally by: Onictus
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Originally by: Onictus
Edited by: Onictus on 17/08/2011 21:21:34
Originally by: Helena Vexar
You guys seem to have this idea that I am losing in a 1v1 slug fest at 15km with a cane... That is not gonna happen, no cane is gonna sit at a BS's optimal and go for a fair fight! They are getting in under my guns and staying there where I can not hit them. There is only one way I can see stopping that, and it's by fitting an AB instead of a mwd, which messes me up in just about every other aspect.

If you don't belive me, let someone get under 1000ms and try to hit them! Now try to stop a cane from getitng there in a bs with three mid slots or even 4. GOOD LUCK


You act like most of us DON'T do this with railguns, or arty cannons.

No one is going to sit there are hand it to you, you have to out fly them, which means you can't park and likely you can't just set an orbit.......and why in god's name would an AC/armor cane sit at 5 times optimal?


Ok what are you having trouble understanding about a BS not having the speed or mobility to out move anything? Try this concept in your head. If you can't beat the speed of ur target, if you cant beat the speed of your targets turning ability, how do you plan to out anything them??? I dont care how fancy your clicking skills are, if you dont have the power under the hood, your not gonna out mobilise the target


Ahh yes, tell me what else I'm missing.


You are in a semi truck, your opponent is in a corvette. You are moving in a straight line, and you in the truck are in front of the vette. Try to keep him from bumbing you in the tail pipe. Theres your answer

Onictus
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:32:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 21:29:56
I never said transversal velocity was the issue. Try and keep up. BOTH SHIPS STOPPED. Both ships 500ms from each other. One ship using large lasers. The other is a hurricane. NO TRANSVERSAL BECAUSE NO SHIPS ARE MOVING. Try to hit the hurricane in the bs. When you have done this, come back on the forum and apologise



So you are telling me you can't hit a STOPPED target with a battleship....and I don't understand.

Got you lima charlie.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:34:00 - [149]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 21:36:36
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 21:36:06
Originally by: Onictus
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 17/08/2011 21:29:56
I never said transversal velocity was the issue. Try and keep up. BOTH SHIPS STOPPED. Both ships 500ms from each other. One ship using large lasers. The other is a hurricane. NO TRANSVERSAL BECAUSE NO SHIPS ARE MOVING. Try to hit the hurricane in the bs. When you have done this, come back on the forum and apologise



So you are telling me you can't hit a STOPPED target with a battleship....and I don't understand.

Got you lima charlie.


you guys call me a troll, yet you delibratly leave out the part where I said THE STOPPED TARGET IS SITTING NEXT TO ME AT 500MS. Just to argue a point that you are wrong about. obviously in the real fight we are both moving, but he is staying at 500ms and im flying away from him, but theres no transversal because we are flying straight. I used the stopped target to show u its not transversal, and the fact that I have tried it and the bs cant hit a stopped target either at 500

Milonia
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
Posted - 2011.08.17 21:37:00 - [150]
 

Just in case this isn't a troll, (because it's a good troll I am still not totally sure)

Helena, most canes kite and are shield tanked. If you do come across an armor tanked brawler cane, you move your Geddon away from the cane. Once the cane gets "under your guns" you don't just sit there. You manually pilot in the opposite direction when he swings around. You keep doing that over and over again. Or you fly at him and bump him that will lower his transversal until he recovers.

But if he is in an armor cane he is slow and you should stay out of his scram range long enough until your guns and drones shred him.


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