open All Channels
seplocked Ships and Modules
blankseplocked Battle ships meh?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6

Author Topic

Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.08.10 08:33:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 06/08/2011 14:25:42
I love all these asshats on here trying to claim it's the pilot with the problem. I will take on any one of your battleships any day of the week in a T1 cruiser and **** your face. BS suck in this game, I dont care how many skills you have. They won't hit the broadside of a barn if the target is smaller than another BS and happens to get in under 5000 meters. I don't care if you have tackle and tracking enhancers, you will still have trouble hitting BC at close range, let alone cruisers. Any smart pvp pilot up against a BS will know to get in under his guns, and after he does, it is all over for the BS. End of story. BS are a joke.

Yes, I have heard the fleet argument time and time again. BS are intended for fleets. Well if a ship needs to rely on a fleet, it doesn't speak well for its effectivness. My plated prophecy sucks ass in pvp. Put it in a logi fleet and it's a beast. Does that mean the prophecy is a good pvp ship? NO. The same thing can be said about the Maller, or the Ferox. Both are awful ships in pvp, put them in a logi fleet and they suddenly don't suck anymore. In fact, what ship doesn't shine in a fleet? Does that make them good ships? No, it makes them mediocre ships leaning on a fleet to make them halfway decent.

The fact is, a BS is great on paper, but the OP is right. The tracking on large guns is so bad at close ranges and even sometimes medium ranges when targetting smaller ships that they are not worth the amount of isk you pour into building and fitting them. BCs, cruisers and HACs can do the exact same job 100 times better, with 100 percent more mobility. All that on paper firepower is wasted because 75 percent of it never hits a target smaller than itself. And lets be honest, what good is a BS killer, if the enemy BS can't hit anything worth a damn other than other BS? Other than station bashing, which capital dreads are better suited for, BS have no real purpose. Unless a BS can somehow keep its target at 30 or 40km and remain static while firing off its guns, it will never be able to make use of its firepower and be worth a damn. This is why nobody flies them anymore.


HAHAHA!

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.10 16:57:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 16:57:39
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Edited by: Skex Relbore on 09/08/2011 21:05:34
Originally by: Aamrr
Oh, c'mon. It's not THAT bad...

I mean sure, he's missing a rig, using a nos instead of a neut, a scram instead of a warp disruptor, and doesn't have T2 guns, but...

...well, I've seen worse. (The X-ray is a little weird...)


Yeah it really is that bad. A laser BS with no cap booster? That is utter and complete fail right there. Then we have the scram+ web on a ship that has an optimal of over 20km, even multi has an optimal well outside of scram/web range yet here he has it fit like it's a Mega.

Honestly the fact that it's got T1 guns is indication enough that this character should not be PVPing in these Battleships, I didn't even buy a Amarr BS until I had T2 Large pulses.

It's scorch that makes lasers the cat's meow and you gotta have T2 to do that. Hell Mega Pulse with Scorch has a longer range than those Meta Tach's with Multi that Helena lost on that Abaddon back in June as well as higher damage.

Oh why the hell is that, Helena? You've been playing a few months more than me yet you still haven't trained Large T2 lasers? Hell I've got Large Lasers, Projectiles and Hybrids in that time plus damned near perfect support skills and all 4 races T1 combat ships. All you seem to fly is Amarr one would think you'd have well focused skills in them.

Looking at other losses Helena could use some serous PVP lessons.

I mean really coming here and talking crap about how other people are fail PVPers with that Killboard?

As far as the OP's point goes, Battleships have their uses, when you really absolutely positively want to lay down some serious hurt on someone or you want to scout an undock (non-kickout station of course).

Yes they don't really start to shine until you can fully T2 fit them and have good support skills but a good BS pilot will tear a battle cruiser to pieces and would eat small cruiser gangs as a light snack.

Combine them with a well balanced fleet with proper support (Logis, Recons, Dictors ect.) and things get real interesting.



I love dudes like this who never pvp outside of a fleet and try to rank on other peoples killboards. I solo pvp alot, that is why my killboard is not the greatest. From looking at your killboard skex, you are rarly found in pvp outside of a fleet. Just sayin.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:02:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar
Battleships are terrible because I fit mega modulated pulse energy beams onto a ship fit for short range tackle and point. Because I am utterly clueless, I also lacked any kind of cap booster, tracking computer, and went for two heat sinks and one TE in the lows because, ****, that looked great in EFT.

I will also ignore all the inherent advantages present in the larger ship classes .. mostly because I am clueless as to how they work.

FINALLY just to add insult to insult, I will maintain that I know better than all of you, despite having a killboard record that is hugely biased in my own fail.


FYI, what we actually read is the above.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:17:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:32:13
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:28:36
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:23:45
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:17:52
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Battleships are terrible because I fit mega modulated pulse energy beams onto a ship fit for short range tackle and point. Because I am utterly clueless, I also lacked any kind of cap booster, tracking computer, and went for two heat sinks and one TE in the lows because, ****, that looked great in EFT.

I will also ignore all the inherent advantages present in the larger ship classes .. mostly because I am clueless as to how they work.

FINALLY just to add insult to insult, I will maintain that I know better than all of you, despite having a killboard record that is hugely biased in my own fail.


FYI, what we actually read is the above.


I think I made it clear in my first post I understand the advantages and disadvtanges of a bs. Many of my fits are test fits which I fitted to test effectivness of various different things. The scram was so that my target could not simply mwd away from my extreamly slow bs. A long point does not do me much good if they can outrun me anyway does it?

You people go on and on about how smart you think you are but you don't actually have the ability to think do you? You will not out dps a cane close range in a bs, I dont care what guns you have equipped. Large turret tracking is horrid. If any of you actually put these theories to the test, which by most of your killboards none of you have, you would notice I have more actual experience fighting the ships in question, 1v1, in a bs, even if I lose. So I assure you I do know what I am talking about. I would like any of you to post a killmail where u have taken out a cane in a bs 1v1, I bet none of you can. All you people do is talk.

And to the people telling me scortch and t2 is the way to go, how many of you actually think a bc or cruiser up against an amarr bs is actually going to slug it out with me at my scortch optimal? You people are so ******ed. They are going to mwd in as close as they can and planet themself at 5000 m and have a field day. Oh and by the way for all you nobs out there yelling scortch on a bs, t2 crystals all have half the tracking of faction and standard crystals., so I would actually hit my target LESS. Again, I think i know what im talking about, do you?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:21:00 - [65]
 

If we're so dumb, how come you're the one losing all the terribly fitted BS?

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:25:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:29:00
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:27:37
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:27:14
Originally by: Malcanis
If we're so dumb, how come you're the one losing all the terribly fitted BS?


Because im actually testing my theories, not just talking about them with no actual experience against smaller targets, 1v1, like all of you...

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:35:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Battleships are terrible because I fit mega modulated pulse energy beams onto a ship fit for short range tackle and point. Because I am utterly clueless, I also lacked any kind of cap booster, tracking computer, and went for two heat sinks and one TE in the lows because, ****, that looked great in EFT.

I will also ignore all the inherent advantages present in the larger ship classes .. mostly because I am clueless as to how they work.

FINALLY just to add insult to insult, I will maintain that I know better than all of you, despite having a killboard record that is hugely biased in my own fail.


FYI, what we actually read is the above.


I think I made it clear in my first post I understand the advantages and disadvtanges of a bs. Many of my fits are test fits which I fitted to test effectivness of various different things. The scram was so that my target could not simply mwd away from my extreamly slow bs. A long point does not do me much good if they can outrun me anyway does it?

You people go on and on about how smart you think you are but you don't have the ability to think do you? You will not out dps a cane close range in a bs, I dont care what guns you have equipped. Large turret tracking is horrid. If any of you actually put these theories to the test, which by most of your killboards none of you have, you would notice I have more actual experience fighting the ships in question, 1v1, in a bs, even if I lose. So I assure you I do know what I am talking about. I would like any of you to post a killmail where u have taken out a cane in a bs 1v1, I bet none of you can. All you people do is talk.

And to the people telling me scortch and t2 is the way to go, how many of you actually think a bc or cruiser up against an amarr bs is actually going to slug it out with me at my scortch optimal? You people are so ******ed. They are going to mwd in as close as they can and planet themself at 5000 m and have a field day. Oh and by the way for all you nobs out there yelling scortch on a bs, t2 crystals all have half the tracking of faction and standard crystals., so I would actually hit my target LESS. Again, I think i know what im talking about, do you?


Hi.

I fly a megathron and can tell you that a cane doesn't stand a chance in hell of out damaging me in a fight and most of them lack the speed to get away from my orb of destruction. I know this because many have died to my blasters.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:37:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:42:23
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:40:58
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:37:47
Hi.

I fly a megathron and can tell you that a cane doesn't stand a chance in hell of out damaging me in a fight and most of them lack the speed to get away from my orb of destruction. I know this because many have died to my blasters.


My concerns are mostly with amarr bs. Laser tracking is horrible, blasters are much more effective at close ranges and for hybrid equipped ships, it's less of an issue. Also just because of lasers, I am almost forced to equip a booster, which messes with my ability to fit med slot items to improve my effectivness on amarr ships which are already med slot deffective

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:48:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar


My concerns are mostly with amarr bs. Laser tracking is horrible, blasters are much more effective at close ranges and for hybrid equipped ships, it's less of an issue.


A geddon is deadly, the tracking should be fine for taking out cruisers and always carry a large neut, cap booster, MWD, and warp disruptor. Med drones are best as large are too slow. Lasers are a much easyer weapon to use than blasters are and scorch is in my opinion the best ammo in the game.

A well flown geddon should never fear a single cruiser.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.11 09:17:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar
You people go on and on about how smart you think you are but you don't actually have the ability to think do you? You will not out dps a cane close range in a bs, I dont care what guns you have equipped. Large turret tracking is horrid. If any of you actually put these theories to the test, which by most of your killboards none of you have, you would notice I have more actual experience fighting the ships in question, 1v1, in a bs, even if I lose. So I assure you I do know what I am talking about. I would like any of you to post a killmail where u have taken out a cane in a bs 1v1, I bet none of you can. All you people do is talk.



A battleship is pretty much DESIGNED to **** a battlecruiser 1 on 1. The armour ones aren't quick enough to mitigate damage VS your tracking, and a shield version (tho possibly able to GTFO) will get hit for full damage from your guns. Any (ANNNYYY) of the Amarr battleships is incredibly viable against battlecruisers. Really.

In fact, there is literally no better T1 counter to a Drake than an Amarr battleship.

Battleships DO have issues when flown solo. But get this; they are meant to. You do not, however, need a fleet to make one work, they absolutely shine in small gangs. Your argument that they are terrible ships comes from the mere fact they are not the soloomgwtfpwn boat you're looking for? I got tired of this argument in 2005 buddy. There used to be a time when a battleship could roflstomp anything smaller than it with near impunity, and it was largely considered to be **** by all involved.

Looking over your killboard, your major problem seems to be a lack of situational awareness and scouting; more so than issues with fits and ships used.

To illustrate my point, here is a DPS graph of an Abaddon attacking a cane. For fairness, I have assumed worst piloting possible, that you have allowed maximal transversal against you. The Cane is webbed. Red line denoted long point range:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

As you can see, there is an issue of a cane getting under your guns. However, in this "worst case scenario" you will STILL win a slug fest, EHP vs DPS. The worst you can apply is about 210dps (within 100m). In reality, it is impossible for a cane to actually get that much transversal on you, unless you flat out suck. If he wants to disengage, he has to fly through 20km of upto 1000dps. If he lights a MWD to burn away ... then at ANY range you will melt him.

Other battleships (my lubully Typhoon) will deal with a cane by neuting it to ****ery, shutting down its MWD and tank and making a mess of the lifeless result.

Can you, for the point of illustration, tell us how you are going about losing your battleships, solo, to a single battlecruiser?

You might get some pointers..

A battleship should beat a solo battlecruiser, every time. You can keep on telling us all, over and over, how YOU keep losing them to battlecruisers ... but what does that tell you? THE WHOLE REST OF THE FORUM is telling you that you are wrong .. and instead of trying to see the merit in their argument you, a person with very little experience, sit and flame on saying how you know better. You're basically the 9 year old boy, watching a football match, and telling everyone how he would do better.

With an attitude as terrible as yours, this is probably the only chance you'll get for advice.

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.08.11 22:11:00 - [71]
 

Maths OWNED all trolls here I guess..


BSs have their use and role, while other classes have their own. Only if you see something not flown it is inferior or broken.. like AFs or destroyers etc. On the other hand I see alot of BSs, BCs, Cruisers, T2s, T3s...


Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.12 15:03:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 12/08/2011 15:08:08
No offense to you, but most of these people here I would bet my life have never soloed a cane in a bs. On paper and real play are different. I have tested this theory time and time again in pvp and with friends. In a geddon with a webber and mwd, even with tracking enhancers equipped, if a cane gets under 5000m, my dps is almost nothing. Not because of my gunnery skills which are quite good, but because at close range even with little transversal, large guns do not hit smaller targets. And I definatly will not outmanoeuvre anything. They MWD or AB in so close I could reach out the window and touch their hull and stay there, and I can not hit them and I will never get distance because im too slow and mwd is cut off. If you don't belive me, I implore you to try this scenerio in an amarr bs, even with dual heavys. Let them get to 1000m and see how well u hit them.....

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.12 15:10:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Helena Vexar
You people go on and on about how smart you think you are but you don't actually have the ability to think do you? You will not out dps a cane close range in a bs, I dont care what guns you have equipped. Large turret tracking is horrid. If any of you actually put these theories to the test, which by most of your killboards none of you have, you would notice I have more actual experience fighting the ships in question, 1v1, in a bs, even if I lose. So I assure you I do know what I am talking about. I would like any of you to post a killmail where u have taken out a cane in a bs 1v1, I bet none of you can. All you people do is talk.



A battleship is pretty much DESIGNED to **** a battlecruiser 1 on 1. The armour ones aren't quick enough to mitigate damage VS your tracking, and a shield version (tho possibly able to GTFO) will get hit for full damage from your guns. Any (ANNNYYY) of the Amarr battleships is incredibly viable against battlecruisers. Really.

In fact, there is literally no better T1 counter to a Drake than an Amarr battleship.

Battleships DO have issues when flown solo. But get this; they are meant to. You do not, however, need a fleet to make one work, they absolutely shine in small gangs. Your argument that they are terrible ships comes from the mere fact they are not the soloomgwtfpwn boat you're looking for? I got tired of this argument in 2005 buddy. There used to be a time when a battleship could roflstomp anything smaller than it with near impunity, and it was largely considered to be **** by all involved.

Looking over your killboard, your major problem seems to be a lack of situational awareness and scouting; more so than issues with fits and ships used.

To illustrate my point, here is a DPS graph of an Abaddon attacking a cane. For fairness, I have assumed worst piloting possible, that you have allowed maximal transversal against you. The Cane is webbed. Red line denoted long point range:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

As you can see, there is an issue of a cane getting under your guns. However, in this "worst case scenario" you will STILL win a slug fest, EHP vs DPS. The worst you can apply is about 210dps (within 100m). In reality, it is impossible for a cane to actually get that much transversal on you, unless you flat out suck. If he wants to disengage, he has to fly through 20km of upto 1000dps. If he lights a MWD to burn away ... then at ANY range you will melt him.

Other battleships (my lubully Typhoon) will deal with a cane by neuting it to ****ery, shutting down its MWD and tank and making a mess of the lifeless result.

Can you, for the point of illustration, tell us how you are going about losing your battleships, solo, to a single battlecruiser?

You might get some pointers..

A battleship should beat a solo battlecruiser, every time. You can keep on telling us all, over and over, how YOU keep losing them to battlecruisers ... but what does that tell you? THE WHOLE REST OF THE FORUM is telling you that you are wrong .. and instead of trying to see the merit in their argument you, a person with very little experience, sit and flame on saying how you know better. You're basically the 9 year old boy, watching a football match, and telling everyone how he would do better.

With an attitude as terrible as yours, this is probably the only chance you'll get for advice.


I can assure you that you will not win a slugfest dps to ehp when the cane is at 5000m or below because I have tried it, and you have seen my fits, they are not horrible

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.12 15:16:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 12/08/2011 15:19:32
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 12/08/2011 15:17:48
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Helena Vexar


My concerns are mostly with amarr bs. Laser tracking is horrible, blasters are much more effective at close ranges and for hybrid equipped ships, it's less of an issue.


A geddon is deadly, the tracking should be fine for taking out cruisers and always carry a large neut, cap booster, MWD, and warp disruptor. Med drones are best as large are too slow. Lasers are a much easyer weapon to use than blasters are and scorch is in my opinion the best ammo in the game.

A well flown geddon should never fear a single cruiser.


No offense dude, but thats like saying a cruiser should never fear a frigate. But with BS its even worse. First of all geddons only have three mid slots so you can't even fit all that stuff that you stated. You clearly dont know amarr ships. Thats all this forum topic seems to be, people talking about **** they have no real expereince with. And I will say it again, using scortch is not gonna solve my issue seeing as scortch is not a close range ammo type and If I tried to use scortch at close range id be even more ****ed. If you read my actual problem that I am having, it's when ships get in really close. Nobody is gonna slug it out with a BS at their scortch range.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.08.12 15:35:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar


I love dudes like this who never pvp outside of a fleet and try to rank on other peoples killboards. I solo pvp alot, that is why my killboard is not the greatest. From looking at your killboard skex, you are rarly found in pvp outside of a fleet. Just sayin.


This isn't a solo game there is a reason why no one ship can do it all, The game is designed with fleets mind. That's why you have limited slots so you have to make trade offs and sacrifices for different capabilities.

Yes I mostly fly in fleets this is a function of where I live and what I like to do but I've had plenty of solo action too, I don't claim to be a great soloer but I'm better than you.

For one I understand what ships are suited for solo work and which aren't Hint Amarr battleships are not good solo platforms. Battleships in general make poor solo platforms anywhere other than on a station grid because they lack GTFO ability.

Good solo ships are the ones that can get in get the kill and GTFO before backup or other predators arrive.

Battleships with the singular exception of the Macharial are ponderous slow things that take over ten seconds to align and are easy to scan down. As such they generally are not a good choice for solo play.

When I want to solo I generally take a fast ganky ship out something like a Rifter, AF or faction Frig or soon to be the Vaga now that I can fly it.

A BS on top of being slow is going to draw too much attention. Most people understand that you have to be able to take a target down in under a minute so are going to bring maximum available force to take it out in as expedient manner as possible.

Your problem is that you refuse to admit that you don't know what the **** you are talking about. You sit here and tell people who are far more successful PVPers that we don't know what we're talking about and that you are the expert, Yet we're the ones with the positive K/D ratio's and documented experience doing exactly what you claim isn't possible.

Here is an example of me doing exactly what you claim can't be done. and I did that way before being able to fit T2 guns or use T2 heavies.

Of course to illustrate my point I died immediately after this kill when his reinforcements arrived and I was aligning to warp out.

You keep trying the same thing over and over again without analyzing the cause of your failure. People have tried to explain it to you yet because you think you are smarter than us you refuse to make the adjustments to be successful and have come to an erroneous conclusion.

This is the difference between the good PVPers and targets like yourself. The good PVPers recognize when they screw up and analyzing their mistakes in order to avoid a repeat, or at least we aren't surprised or ****ed when we toss another wolf at a AC thrasher and his two Rifter flying buddies.

We study the killmail pay attention to what works and what doesn't. You however keep making the same mistakes.

You keep flying your Amarr battleships out solo with crap fits and wondering why you are getting blown up rather than stopping thinking about it and maybe listening to the people who know better and could tell you how to stop making that mistakes.

One would think that the fact that the majority of the people telling you that you are wrong are ranked PVPers might be a clue.


But hey keep on doing what you are doing we do need victims after all.

odama jasonsson
Caldari
Het Kruitvat
Tin Can Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.12 15:45:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: odama jasonsson on 12/08/2011 17:24:50
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 12/08/2011 15:19:32
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 12/08/2011 15:17:48
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Helena Vexar


My concerns are mostly with amarr bs. Laser tracking is horrible, blasters are much more effective at close ranges and for hybrid equipped ships, it's less of an issue.


Lets see
A geddon is deadly, the tracking should be fine for taking out cruisers and always carry a large neut, cap booster, MWD, and warp disruptor. Med drones are best as large are too slow. Lasers are a much easyer weapon to use than blasters are and scorch is in my opinion the best ammo in the game.

A well flown geddon should never fear a single cruiser.


No offense dude, but thats like saying a cruiser should never fear a frigate. But with BS its even worse. First of all geddons only have three mid slots so you can't even fit all that stuff that you stated. You clearly dont know amarr ships. Thats all this forum topic seems to be, people talking about **** they have no real expereince with. And I will say it again, using scortch is not gonna solve my issue seeing as scortch is not a close range ammo type and If I tried to use scortch at close range id be even more ****ed. If you read my actual problem that I am having, it's when ships get in really close. Nobody is gonna slug it out with a BS at their scortch range.


Dude,

He said use neut (high slot item!), cap booster (mid), mwd (mid) and point (mid). Dunno about you but thats 3 medium slot items i'm counting and one high item for the utility high slot on the geddon... totaly fittable. I think you need eye surgery.

Also lase boats are able to insta fit new crystals so ofc you do not use scorch for short range but multifreq duh...

Cruiser vs bs go's this way in most scenarios:

-Cruiser stays 13 km+ out, bs is able to hit it (pulse lasers track fairly well)
-cruisers go's below the 12 km -> heavy neut on the cruiser, cruiser caps out or has to juggle a lot with his cap booster
-cruiser go's beyond longpoint range, now both cant scramble each other so disengage when things go sout

Frig vs bs:

- far out warrior 2 swats the frig
-frig gets neuted when below 12 km (heavy neut is insta draining the frig)

To summarise a bs is totaly capable of killing other ship classes below it, the only thing battleships truly need to fear are REALY FAST ships like the vagabond and stabber and the like, of which the stabber doesnt do a lot of dps so you can de-agress and jump. Infact the things a bs need to fear most are t2 ships (esp t2 cruisers since they have bs-like dps but better agility).

Everything has it's counter but a bs is by no means defenseless...

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.12 16:32:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 12/08/2011 15:19:32
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 12/08/2011 15:17:48
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Helena Vexar


My concerns are mostly with amarr bs. Laser tracking is horrible, blasters are much more effective at close ranges and for hybrid equipped ships, it's less of an issue.


A geddon is deadly, the tracking should be fine for taking out cruisers and always carry a large neut, cap booster, MWD, and warp disruptor. Med drones are best as large are too slow. Lasers are a much easyer weapon to use than blasters are and scorch is in my opinion the best ammo in the game.

A well flown geddon should never fear a single cruiser.


No offense dude, but thats like saying a cruiser should never fear a frigate. But with BS its even worse. First of all geddons only have three mid slots so you can't even fit all that stuff that you stated. You clearly dont know amarr ships. Thats all this forum topic seems to be, people talking about **** they have no real expereince with. And I will say it again, using scortch is not gonna solve my issue seeing as scortch is not a close range ammo type and If I tried to use scortch at close range id be even more ****ed. If you read my actual problem that I am having, it's when ships get in really close. Nobody is gonna slug it out with a BS at their scortch range.


Sorry to tell you this but I have flown geddons sinse before the nano nerf. Any cruiser getting under 24km will get neuted to death. The only exceptions are the curse and pilgrim. If you cant manage to get a geddon to work then get an apoc which is a fantastic ship.

And no, most cruisers should never fear a frigate.

Nor Tzestu
Amarr
Boxwater Intelligence
Posted - 2011.08.12 21:45:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:29:00
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:27:37
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:27:14
Originally by: Malcanis
If we're so dumb, how come you're the one losing all the terribly fitted BS?


Because im actually testing my theories, not just talking about them with no actual experience against smaller targets, 1v1, like all of you...


A. I haven't forgotten about killing you. Hope you are still up for it. Do you prefer death by pulse lasers or terribad Hybrids?
B. Could you be more butthurt? Seriously.
C. Go to http://club-bear.com/videos/ Watch the video called "seven"

After you watch that then you need to ask whats wrong. Do battleships suck? Or maybe, just maybe you need to learn to fit and fly them? What ever you do though please continue on like your the only one who has ever PVP'd in a BS. And how cane's are instant death to any solo BS. Or how your failfit was A-OK and it was BS as a whole that let you down. In short, more butthurt. Stick your fingers in your ears. Be confident you know it all. Assume no one is an alt, these are clearly everyone's mains.




Kimton
Posted - 2011.08.12 21:53:00 - [79]
 

BS are useless eh? Setting pvp aside, what are the most sought after DPS ships for incursion...?

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.12 23:06:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Kimton
BS are useless eh? Setting pvp aside, what are the most sought after DPS ships for incursion...?


In the case of incursions, the two most favored BSes either have a 90% web (Vindi) or a bonus to tracking on top of having one or two webs (Nightmare). Additionally, the rats will plow straight into your optimal range without fail. Less favored BSes get by with lots of fitted webs at the expense of tank or Loki/Huginn web support.

The preference for turret BSes in incursions has nearly zero relevance to the issue the OP posted. That being said, BS are underrated in PvP simply because kiting like mad is the new FOTM.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.14 02:41:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 12/08/2011 15:19:32
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 12/08/2011 15:17:48
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Helena Vexar


My concerns are mostly with amarr bs. Laser tracking is horrible, blasters are much more effective at close ranges and for hybrid equipped ships, it's less of an issue.


A geddon is deadly, the tracking should be fine for taking out cruisers and always carry a large neut, cap booster, MWD, and warp disruptor. Med drones are best as large are too slow. Lasers are a much easyer weapon to use than blasters are and scorch is in my opinion the best ammo in the game.

A well flown geddon should never fear a single cruiser.


No offense dude, but thats like saying a cruiser should never fear a frigate. But with BS its even worse. First of all geddons only have three mid slots so you can't even fit all that stuff that you stated. You clearly dont know amarr ships. Thats all this forum topic seems to be, people talking about **** they have no real expereince with. And I will say it again, using scortch is not gonna solve my issue seeing as scortch is not a close range ammo type and If I tried to use scortch at close range id be even more ****ed. If you read my actual problem that I am having, it's when ships get in really close. Nobody is gonna slug it out with a BS at their scortch range.


Sorry to tell you this but I have flown geddons sinse before the nano nerf. Any cruiser getting under 24km will get neuted to death. The only exceptions are the curse and pilgrim. If you cant manage to get a geddon to work then get an apoc which is a fantastic ship.

And no, most cruisers should never fear a frigate.


Everyone is all about these neuts, tell me, what good is a neut against a minmatar or caldari missle boat which dont need cap to kill you? Neuts only work well against amarr ships and active tanks, which nobody really does in pvp. So im missing the part where my neut saves the day? And by the way I have a neut in almost all my geddon fits if you did not notice

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.14 02:43:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Helena Vexar on 14/08/2011 02:43:26
Originally by: Nor Tzestu
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:29:00
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:27:37
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 10/08/2011 17:27:14
Originally by: Malcanis
If we're so dumb, how come you're the one losing all the terribly fitted BS?


Because im actually testing my theories, not just talking about them with no actual experience against smaller targets, 1v1, like all of you...


A. I haven't forgotten about killing you. Hope you are still up for it. Do you prefer death by pulse lasers or terribad Hybrids?
B. Could you be more butthurt? Seriously.
C. Go to http://club-bear.com/videos/ Watch the video called "seven"

After you watch that then you need to ask whats wrong. Do battleships suck? Or maybe, just maybe you need to learn to fit and fly them? What ever you do though please continue on like your the only one who has ever PVP'd in a BS. And how cane's are instant death to any solo BS. Or how your failfit was A-OK and it was BS as a whole that let you down. In short, more butthurt. Stick your fingers in your ears. Be confident you know it all. Assume no one is an alt, these are clearly everyone's mains.






I would be happy to 1v1 one you in my cruiser any day my friend. Name the time and place, and you can use the geddon seeing as u are so confident you can fit it properly. Although as an amarr ship pilot, I will be at a huge disadvantage because you will have a neut and a neut will affect me. Almost everyone flies minmatar in pvp for obvious reasons, and a neut would do next to nothing to them.

Demon Azrakel
Gallente
Defiant..
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.08.14 03:22:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Demon Azrakel on 14/08/2011 03:24:04
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 06/08/2011 14:25:42
I love all these asshats on here trying to claim it's the pilot with the problem. I will take on any one of your battleships any day of the week in a T1 cruiser and **** your face. BS suck in this game, I dont care how many skills you have. They won't hit the broadside of a barn if the target is smaller than another BS and happens to get in under 5000 meters. I don't care if you have tackle and tracking enhancers, you will still have trouble hitting BC at close range, let alone cruisers. Any smart pvp pilot up against a BS will know to get in under his guns, and after he does, it is all over for the BS. End of story. BS are a joke.

Yes, I have heard the fleet argument time and time again. BS are intended for fleets. Well if a ship needs to rely on a fleet, it doesn't speak well for its effectivness. My plated prophecy sucks ass in pvp. Put it in a logi fleet and it's a beast. Does that mean the prophecy is a good pvp ship? NO. The same thing can be said about the Maller, or the Ferox. Both are awful ships in pvp, put them in a logi fleet and they suddenly don't suck anymore. In fact, what ship doesn't shine in a fleet? Does that make them good ships? No, it makes them mediocre ships leaning on a fleet to make them halfway decent.

The fact is, a BS is great on paper, but the OP is right. The tracking on large guns is so bad at close ranges and even sometimes medium ranges when targetting smaller ships that they are not worth the amount of isk you pour into building and fitting them. BCs, cruisers and HACs can do the exact same job 100 times better, with 100 percent more mobility. All that on paper firepower is wasted because 75 percent of it never hits a target smaller than itself. And lets be honest, what good is a BS killer, if the enemy BS can't hit anything worth a damn other than other BS? Other than station bashing, which capital dreads are better suited for, BS have no real purpose. Unless a BS can somehow keep its target at 30 or 40km and remain static while firing off its guns, it will never be able to make use of its firepower and be worth a damn. This is why nobody flies them anymore.


My Vindi would like to have a word with your cruiser at 5km... but you are only concerned with the problems that ships with actual decent weapons have (see: not hybrids).

But this poster is actually right; nano gangs are not only used because they can get away from larger groups (the purpose and what they should be good at), but also because they are too hard to hit for a battleship. I feel like a ship's speed and maneuverability should be more important in a strategic sense and placement sense, not in a "haha, you can't hit me" sense.

Kimton
Posted - 2011.08.14 04:46:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Mfume Apocal
In the case of incursions, the two most favored BSes either have a 90% web (Vindi) or a bonus to tracking on top of having one or two webs (Nightmare). Additionally, the rats will plow straight into your optimal range without fail. Less favored BSes get by with lots of fitted webs at the expense of tank or Loki/Huginn web support.

The preference for turret BSes in incursions has nearly zero relevance to the issue the OP posted. That being said, BS are underrated in PvP simply because kiting like mad is the new FOTM.


Vindi for vanguard, Mach for mom, rats plowing straight into your opt range without fail makes no sense, less favored BS can get by without Loki or Huginn if you (should) have command ships, run armor fleet so you won't have to make that med slot sacrifice, OP said BS is not worth getting and I'm just telling him the differ.

Pink Marshmellow
Posted - 2011.08.14 04:49:00 - [85]
 

In Wormholes Battleships are use to defend a system or bash a pos since mobility is not as necessary. Other than that and PVE, you can't really use em all that much due to WH mass limits.

For 1 Battleship you can use 5-10 BC or Cruiser sized Ships.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.08.14 06:00:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar

I would be happy to 1v1 one you in my cruiser any day my friend. Name the time and place, and you can use the geddon seeing as u are so confident you can fit it properly.



Would someone pick up this challenge and roflstomp him please? I wanna see his tears (and a killmail).

Originally by: Helena Vexar
Almost everyone flies minmatar in pvp for obvious reasons, and a neut would do next to nothing to them.


It still shuts down their prop mods, tank (if active), and utility mods (i.e. point, web, ewar, etc).

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.14 08:37:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Helena Vexar


Everyone is all about these neuts, tell me, what good is a neut against a minmatar or caldari missle boat which dont need cap to kill you? Neuts only work well against amarr ships and active tanks, which nobody really does in pvp. So im missing the part where my neut saves the day? And by the way I have a neut in almost all my geddon fits if you did not notice


Because a MWD runs on magic.

I'm going with a mix of not having the skills to use a BS fully and not having the skill or correct gang to use one right.

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.14 11:34:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Kimton
rats plowing straight into your opt range without fail makes no sense


the ones you have to kill fly right to 12km (or closer) in a VG, every single time. it never changes.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.14 15:13:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Helena Vexar


Everyone is all about these neuts, tell me, what good is a neut against a minmatar or caldari missle boat which dont need cap to kill you? Neuts only work well against amarr ships and active tanks, which nobody really does in pvp. So im missing the part where my neut saves the day? And by the way I have a neut in almost all my geddon fits if you did not notice


Because a MWD runs on magic.

I'm going with a mix of not having the skills to use a BS fully and not having the skill or correct gang to use one right.


You think shutting down a MWD is going to help me when fighting a smaller ship in a BS? Actually, the last thing I want to shut down is their MWD! Its the only thing that will allow me to hit them worth a damn! It makes their sig radious massive! So, again I am still waiting for an argument where my neut is going to save the day and make my BS so uber! You people talk all this **** but you don't know jack about pvp.

Helena Vexar
Posted - 2011.08.14 15:16:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Demon Azrakel
Edited by: Demon Azrakel on 14/08/2011 03:24:04
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 06/08/2011 14:25:42
I love all these asshats on here trying to claim it's the pilot with the problem. I will take on any one of your battleships any day of the week in a T1 cruiser and **** your face. BS suck in this game, I dont care how many skills you have. They won't hit the broadside of a barn if the target is smaller than another BS and happens to get in under 5000 meters. I don't care if you have tackle and tracking enhancers, you will still have trouble hitting BC at close range, let alone cruisers. Any smart pvp pilot up against a BS will know to get in under his guns, and after he does, it is all over for the BS. End of story. BS are a joke.

Yes, I have heard the fleet argument time and time again. BS are intended for fleets. Well if a ship needs to rely on a fleet, it doesn't speak well for its effectivness. My plated prophecy sucks ass in pvp. Put it in a logi fleet and it's a beast. Does that mean the prophecy is a good pvp ship? NO. The same thing can be said about the Maller, or the Ferox. Both are awful ships in pvp, put them in a logi fleet and they suddenly don't suck anymore. In fact, what ship doesn't shine in a fleet? Does that make them good ships? No, it makes them mediocre ships leaning on a fleet to make them halfway decent.

The fact is, a BS is great on paper, but the OP is right. The tracking on large guns is so bad at close ranges and even sometimes medium ranges when targetting smaller ships that they are not worth the amount of isk you pour into building and fitting them. BCs, cruisers and HACs can do the exact same job 100 times better, with 100 percent more mobility. All that on paper firepower is wasted because 75 percent of it never hits a target smaller than itself. And lets be honest, what good is a BS killer, if the enemy BS can't hit anything worth a damn other than other BS? Other than station bashing, which capital dreads are better suited for, BS have no real purpose. Unless a BS can somehow keep its target at 30 or 40km and remain static while firing off its guns, it will never be able to make use of its firepower and be worth a damn. This is why nobody flies them anymore.


My Vindi would like to have a word with your cruiser at 5km... but you are only concerned with the problems that ships with actual decent weapons have (see: not hybrids).

But this poster is actually right; nano gangs are not only used because they can get away from larger groups (the purpose and what they should be good at), but also because they are too hard to hit for a battleship. I feel like a ship's speed and maneuverability should be more important in a strategic sense and placement sense, not in a "haha, you can't hit me" sense.


Finaly, someone with actual common sense.


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only