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Ame Sonoda
Caldari
Requiem of the Sinner
Posted - 2011.08.05 16:58:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Ame Sonoda on 05/08/2011 17:21:31
1 and 2. Don't honestly care about it because I don't plan on using it. I maybe would have if the prices were actually inline with what most people consider a microtransaction. Fearless didn't bother me but the e-mail from Hilmar was pretty insulting.

3. Yes. I was actually looking forward to walking in stations based on what I saw from the old teasers. I hadn't been playing for a while and had no idea that instead of walking in stations we were getting sitting on couches, so it was a massive let down. Not the reason I've unsubbed though.

4. Currently I'm playing on the Chinese server which is running Tyrannis. That client with fully functioning ship spinning and all the old functionality does not stress my PC nearly as much as staring at a door on TQ. I'm planning on building a new PC anyway sometime soon. Disappointed I can't play Eve in the meantime but until then there's no point me paying for a game that makes my GPU go supernova.

Edit: Also add in all the other stuff they broke.
Edit 2: Just kidding about buying NeX stuff. Even if it was cheaper it would still be **** and generic.

Solhild
Posted - 2011.08.05 17:14:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 05/08/2011 16:38:56
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 05/08/2011 16:36:52
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 05/08/2011 16:35:54
This is a good thread I think to clear up many misconceptions CCP and their zealot fans have about the people who are so against giving CCP money right now, so let's keep this going.

It is simple really, I don't hate incarna, I hate that CCP has systematically gone backwards every time I re-subscribe or put more game time to my account. Instead of making this game a sandbox like it was meant to be they are lacking any sort of methodically planned direction and are throwing half-finished content after half-finished content. They are clearly catering to the long time players who are mainly in 0.0 alliances that have been in the game since beta and these people tend to do nothing more than gatecamp and blob fleet each other while the rest of the playerbase is forced to huddle in high security space because if they venture out alone or in a small group they'll be slaughtered.

If it is a sandbox, then you should be able to do anything you want, I cannot go and find a way to kill these fleets myself, otherwise I would, I cannot take a small task group and blow the stupid battleship fleets to oblivion and take my own slice of 0.0 space. I can't have a battle that isn't simply a contest of who has the best knowledge of the game mechanics or has the most players on their side.

CCP can do whatever the **** they like with the nex store if it doesn't affect the gameplay, but if they keep ****ing with the balance like they keep doing I won't even bother adding more game time the next time an expansion comes around.

p.s. Thanks for making an intelligent thread that isn't just designed to bait us 'haters' who are waiting for game time to run out


All true, good point & well made.

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.08.05 17:16:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Nova Kira
Hiya.

I'd like to ask a few questions and implore for honest, direct answers to those who find Incarna disappointing. inb4 CCP alt.

1. Is the NeX store truly that horrible?

Personally, I don't mind if some space-rich moron buys a monocle simply to show off just how disgustingly rich he is. On the contrary, it's a very "Eve" thing to do.

What I do mind is when this affects the market. The spike in plex prices before CCP's prices were made public is a clear sign on how much things like this can **** up the market.

The NEX store itself is nothing more than a shiny LP store. I don't know why they simply didn't update the LP store interface so that both stores could benefit from the new code, but hey, it's CCP's money.

Originally by: Nova Kira
2. The Leaks.

CCP wanting to make money is a non-shocker. Throwing almost all of it on the development of WoD and Dust, while trying to make it look like Eve is still a main priority was pretty dissapointing. The timing, and the way CCP reacted to all of this, was terrible.

Originally by: Nova Kira
3. Is the CQ really that terrible?


The CQ looks good. Unfortunately it's about as useful as a sack of bent nails. There is litterally nothing new from a gameplay perspective, while it's introduction actually removed some of the functionality of the hangar.

Originally by: Nova Kira
4. The Door.


Game-breaker? No.

Highly annoying? Yes.

There were several things one could do in the old hangar view, and which has been removed with the introduction of the door:
For example, dragging and dropping a ship into the hangar would make you board that ship. Double-clicking it would open it's cargo hold.

All in all, CCP made a very poor impression with Incarna. There was very little new gameplay content, and the WiS launch proved to be such a failure that even the most bitter of the vets were shocked.

When players voiced concerns about MT, CCP responded in an almost childlike manner, and if people hadn't unsubbed en masse the emergency summit had never happened. After all, it was all very predictable, wasn't it?

I didn't unsub because we were given the ability to be space nobility who could mock the space peasants; I unsubbed because it's more and more evident that Eve is heading in a direction I'm not interested in. Well that, and because it fried my video card.


Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.08.05 17:22:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
1. It's laughable. It is less agile than even the LP store and that one is already pretty pathetic.
2. It's not that CCP wants to make money, it's the haughty and backhanded attitude it displayed while doing so.
3. It's not terrible, it's nothing. Just a single room, a single design type and no new functionality gameplay wise.
4. The door is a insult. It's removing functionality from the game and declaring it an expansion.


this tbh, ccp have made it harder to do simple things in station at the expense of a massive jump in hardware requirments. its off and will remain off until there is something to do(i highly doubt that will happen soon) or they take away the option to turn it off, which will happen way before there is something to do and the reintroduction of ship spinning, if that ever happens dont get me started on ccp actually doing stuff they said they would do

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.08.05 17:23:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Misanth on 05/08/2011 17:25:51
Originally by: Abrazzar
1. It's laughable. It is less agile than even the LP store and that one is already pretty pathetic.
2. It's not that CCP wants to make money, it's the haughty and backhanded attitude it displayed while doing so.
3. It's not terrible, it's nothing. Just a single room, a single design type and no new functionality gameplay wise.
4. The door is a insult. It's removing functionality from the game and declaring it an expansion.


Edit; Oh and also this -

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
This is a good thread I think to clear up many misconceptions CCP and their zealot fans have about the people who are so against giving CCP money right now, so let's keep this going.

It is simple really, I don't hate incarna, I hate that CCP has systematically gone backwards every time I re-subscribe or put more game time to my account. Instead of making this game a sandbox like it was meant to be they are lacking any sort of methodically planned direction and are throwing half-finished content after half-finished content. They are clearly catering to the long time players who are mainly in 0.0 alliances that have been in the game since beta and these people tend to do nothing more than gatecamp and blob fleet each other while the rest of the playerbase is forced to huddle in high security space because if they venture out alone or in a small group they'll be slaughtered.

If it is a sandbox, then you should be able to do anything you want, I cannot go and find a way to kill these fleets myself, otherwise I would, I cannot take a small task group and blow the stupid battleship fleets to oblivion and take my own slice of 0.0 space. I can't have a battle that isn't simply a contest of who has the best knowledge of the game mechanics or has the most players on their side.

CCP can do whatever the **** they like with the nex store if it doesn't affect the gameplay, but if they keep ****ing with the balance like they keep doing I won't even bother adding more game time the next time an expansion comes around.

p.s. Thanks for making an intelligent thread that isn't just designed to bait us 'haters' who are waiting for game time to run out

Alayla Nightfall
Posted - 2011.08.05 17:38:00 - [36]
 

Review:

This build is the worst build in the history of Eveonline. Why keeping asking questions, come on man. It's as simple as seeing Incarna completely contradict what CCP has advertised for years ("Improved game play" and "War against lag".) The action is outside in space not inside the station. There is no relation between the 2 environments right out of the box. Just think bro you could be there 200 clicks off your target....

Enough said.

Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:11:00 - [37]
 

1. Is the NeX store truly that horrible?

No. It's not horrible. Its funny as hell. The prices they are charging are rather expensive. The old saying, If you have to ask the price you cant afford it, caters to the rich and not too bright. CCP is profiting by taking advantage of peoples egos and I find that very amusing.

2. The Leaks. Is it really that shocking that CCP is attempting to make money?

Not at all. As long as it is for vanity items only, CCP can charge whatever they want for NeX items. I wont buy the overpriced stuff though. Unfortunately there is the fear that non-vanity items will be sold. What would happen if CCP sold Quafe Zero in the NeX? That is what we are afraid of.

3. Is the CQ really that terrible?

CQ is very pretty and I like the direction it is going. Performance wise CQ is horrible. I am a player from 2005 who was looking forward to WiS. It is something I felt was missing and I was very excited to see the first baby step in that direction. I now have it turned off because of the memory leaks, heat problem, and massive drop in FPS on a less than 2 year old 1gig ATI gfx card when simply looking down the hallway. Also, afraid player run establishments and CQ upgrades will be paid for by Aurum in a game I am already paying 2 subs for and thinking of starting a third.

4. The Door. Yes, I miss the spinning ships as well, but this honestly can't be a game-breaker, can it?

The door is not game breaking, but the door did take some game functionality away from the players. That is rather annoying.

JC Ferguson
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:20:00 - [38]
 

An honest question back atcha OP:

Are you a troll, a fanboi, mentally deficient, or a dev alt? (you can pick more than one if applicable)

Zyress
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:39:00 - [39]
 

I think the major anger about incarna is that as an expansion it doesn't add much for most players, there are so many features and exploits in the game that could have been fixed but they spend their time and resources basically on opening up a new stream of revenue from the game to them. I'm not saying thats a bad thing, I'm just saying thats what makes a lot of people mad, they are under the mistaken opinion that money they pay for their subscription should go towards supporting and improving the game. The fact is their subscription gets them playing time on this game as it exists and that is all. CCP is free to spend their income, time, and resources on anything they want to spend it on.

FiliuolProdigo
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:49:00 - [40]
 

1. I don't give a **** about the nex store as long as they keep these items tradable with ingame currency.

2. I guess some comunication could have helped.

3. At the moment it's quite useless, I like the design, the engine and stuff, but still I disabled it because it slows down the docking/undocking/logging process.

4. The Door was a bad idea, I guess leaving the station spinning could have been nice until they released the full WiS expansion.

I can't say I -HATE- incarna cause I have no reason to hate it, it hasn't changed anything gameplay wise...that's the problem.

JC Ferguson
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:51:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Zyress
I think the major anger about incarna is that as an expansion it doesn't add much for most players, there are so many features and exploits in the game that could have been fixed but they spend their time and resources basically on opening up a new stream of revenue from the game to them. I'm not saying thats a bad thing, I'm just saying thats what makes a lot of people mad, they are under the mistaken opinion that money they pay for their subscription should go towards supporting and improving the game. The fact is their subscription gets them playing time on this game as it exists and that is all. CCP is free to spend their income, time, and resources on anything they want to spend it on.


CCP is also 'free' to pull the plug. As you say, EVE (an immensely profitable game) is currently (after 8 years!) still full of bugs, exploits, imbalanced gameplay, broken features, unused ships, bots, etc. A game developer that cared about its reputation and its signature game would be allocating sufficient resources to fix those issues in a timely manner. CCP doesn't and isn't.

They have the legal right to do so, but so what? Any business has the legal right to behave unprofessionally, to neglect its core product and to show contempt for its customers, but they generally don't remain profitable for long if they choose that route.

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.05 19:10:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 05/08/2011 19:16:55
Originally by: Nova Kira
Hiya.

I'd like to ask a few questions and implore for honest, direct answers to those who find Incarna disappointing. inb4 CCP alt.


1. It's horrible from the point of view of immersion, all cash shops are. But it's not horrible in any moral sense - CCP has every right to put them in. It's worrying wrt to the future of EVE, in that cash shops are antithetical to the idea of a sandbox/virtual world, and MT in EVE portends the gradual change of EVE into "just another cookie-cutter modern MMO", as opposed to a successful example of an older type of MMO design (which it still is, for the moment). Many EVE players are players who fled from "just another MMO" to EVE because it promised that older style of game design; furthermore, many of them were also burned by other MMOs that turned into "just another MMO" too. So the promises ring hollow, unfortunately.

2. It's not shocking that CCP are trying to make money, it's more that they lied, in that the Newsletter showed they were gleefully planning to introduce MT, and to some extent P2W MT, at a time when they had promised they wouldn't even have MT in the game. This is to some extent just a bad communication issue - as someone pointed out above, due to the relationship CCP DID HAVE with the playerbase, they could just have explained their rationale and there wouldn't have been all this trouble (there would have been some, of course, but not nearly as much). But now, to some at-present-unknown extent, that relationship of trust in, and patience with CCP, has broken down, with a non-negligible proportion of the playerbase.

3. CQ is not "terrible", it's laughable in its present state, but I for one have always welcomed the idea of WiS, and even some of the more hardcore players were prepared to investigate it if it offered more opportunities for player interaction. As it stands, it's a joke. However it does show promise, if all the technical problems are ironed out. I think the playerbase would have accepted it as a first iteration, had they not had it thrust in their faces as default - especially given that CCP had promised in the past that it would be an option from Hangar view, which brings me to:-

4. Ship spinning in and of itself was a nice thing to idly do while doing other things, so it's a psychological loss, but one that might have been easily swallowed but for the fact that lack of Hangar view also means a net loss in functionality - and not only that, something that a large proportion of the playerbase had ingrained in their habits. You know the feeling you get when you approach a broken escalator, that "lurching" feeling? Something similar here. Your physiology is used to a certain bunch of habits that are fast and effective. That you now have to stop and think in order to do the same things you used to be able to do with less clicks, but now with more clicks (or learn to use shortcuts) is something that brings the player out of immersion.

Bringing the player out of immersion is always a bad idea, because then there's the risk they may suddenly become aware that they're just a chump sitting at a keyboard paying money for a timesink.

And that's especially something you don't want to do to the player when you ALSO have problems 1), 2) and 3) to contend with ...

And then, to top it off, to add insult to injury, the fine symbol CCP have shown to those players who aren't (at least for the moment) interested in CQ (or perhaps can't use it) is ... a door??? One presumes the idea was to pique interest in what's behind the door, potentially (i.e. WiS), but the symbolism has, unfortunately, been taken in a completely different, and more ironic, even sarcastic sense ...

Again, any of these problems on their own might have been more easily solvable and caused much less upset. It's their combination that created the "perfect storm".

Zyress
Posted - 2011.08.05 19:43:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: JC Ferguson
Originally by: Zyress
I think the major anger about incarna is that as an expansion it doesn't add much for most players, there are so many features and exploits in the game that could have been fixed but they spend their time and resources basically on opening up a new stream of revenue from the game to them. I'm not saying thats a bad thing, I'm just saying thats what makes a lot of people mad, they are under the mistaken opinion that money they pay for their subscription should go towards supporting and improving the game. The fact is their subscription gets them playing time on this game as it exists and that is all. CCP is free to spend their income, time, and resources on anything they want to spend it on.


CCP is also 'free' to pull the plug. As you say, EVE (an immensely profitable game) is currently (after 8 years!) still full of bugs, exploits, imbalanced gameplay, broken features, unused ships, bots, etc. A game developer that cared about its reputation and its signature game would be allocating sufficient resources to fix those issues in a timely manner. CCP doesn't and isn't.

They have the legal right to do so, but so what? Any business has the legal right to behave unprofessionally, to neglect its core product and to show contempt for its customers, but they generally don't remain profitable for long if they choose that route.


Just as CCP is free to spend their time, money, and resources anyway they want, you are free to stop subscribing if you do not enjoy playing it, or find another game you enjoy playing more. Their pride and professionalism really doesn't weigh into that decision in more than an indirect way. Also your stuff can i haz?

Kijo Rikki
Caldari
Point of No Return
Waterboard
Posted - 2011.08.05 20:21:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Kijo Rikki on 05/08/2011 20:21:59
Edited by: Kijo Rikki on 05/08/2011 20:21:31
I feel compelled to answer, though I wouldn't say I was a hater, I just feel I should point some things out.

1. Is the NeX store truly that horrible? No, just useless, IMHO. I can completely ignore it.

2. The Leaks. Is it really that shocking that CCP is attempting to make money? Vanity items have always sold well when offered... when Blizzard opened a store for WoW vanity pets and mounts, they made a killing. Yeah, and WoW sold companion pets that do kick ass kung fu moves and responds to your emotes, or freezes nearby creatures and laughs maniacally for the low low price of 10$ per pet. You're talking about non-interactive clothing that sells for more than the actual price of decent clothing. Now start thinking about how useless clothing is when all we see is your spaceship.

3. Is the CQ really that terrible? It is what it is, it looks shiny but compare it to the simpler graphics of WoW that, with settings on full, can look every bit as impressive as EvE does, even moreso with the fluidity and grace of their character movements, yet is nowhere near the processing burden that EvE is. Perhaps this will improve with time , but knowing how CCP has handled coding this old warhorse it probably will not.

I don't have anything for the door. To be honest, CQ is as useless as NeX and I disabled it after the 5 minutes of 'WoW gee whizz' filtered out of my system.

Le Sabre
Gallente
The Dead Canary Mining Corporation
Legion of Honor
Posted - 2011.08.05 21:06:00 - [45]
 

Just wanted to add a little something that's been bothering me about the removal of 'ship spinning' and cq since this thread is actually very interesting and rage free. I was one of many people who was ready to welcome WIS and had envisioned my char leaving a ship walking through the cq and going for a meander around the promenades, (remember talking in depth and showing some brilliant vids about those ccp? fanfest 08). I was also one of the people who cancelled multiple accounts a while ago, I re-subbed this one given the glimmer of hope that came out of the CSM meeting, but my other acc remains un-subbed (hehe before anyone calls me out on that).

What bothers me about the removal of 'ship spinning' is well, why did they have to remove it? Surely they could have kept the hangar and added a button like the one for the char customizing feature, this would have given players a proper choice to use the cq instead of forcing it on everyone. The transition from 'space' to 'cq' is jarring and unnatural in feel, its immersion breaking and odd.

The other thing is the performance of cq, if one small area and one avatar drops framerates, overheats even newer gpx cards and causes long loading times for docking/undocking (also adding the normal session change/docking timer on top before you can undock/change ships again) then what on earth is the actual station interior going to be like when there's a good number of people strolling around?

Given the length of time CCP tend to take over correcting performance issues (understandably) in EvE and their trend for dropping the last expansions features down the 'priority list' (fw, wh's, incursions etc) in favour of the next shiny thing, I'm seriously wondering exactly how far 'Incarna' will actually go, are we actually going to walk around a station with other people one day or will some new expansion that they suddenly come up with before they finish stations (again, like in 2008) add something that pulls CCP's attention away from incarna?

Nex store? I honestly though that was CCP displaying their unique sense of humour and I really didn't think they were being serious about putting it in, so my view on that is obvious haha. Laughing

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.05 21:17:00 - [46]
 

1. The NeX serves no purpose for players — it's strictly a method for CCP to bleed PLEXes out of the economy. As such, as a player, I find it insulting that they try to hawk it as some great thing for players to play with — if they wanted to give us something, it would have been made part of the normal S&I/market mechanics.

2. CCP are free to make money. They don't have to blatantly lie to the playerbase to do so.

3. Like the NeX, the CQ serves no purpose for players — it is entirely for CCP at this moment, and completely fails to live up to any of the years of Incarna hype. Thus, again, I find it insulting as a player that they try to hawk it as something great for us — if they wanted to give us something, they would have given us some game content and gameplay.

4. Again, they lied, and they also reduced game funcitonality and then tried to hawk it as a great (temporary) gift to players. ****'em.

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.08.05 21:19:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Zyress
Originally by: JC Ferguson
Originally by: Zyress
I think the major anger about incarna is that as an expansion it doesn't add much for most players, there are so many features and exploits in the game that could have been fixed but they spend their time and resources basically on opening up a new stream of revenue from the game to them. I'm not saying thats a bad thing, I'm just saying thats what makes a lot of people mad, they are under the mistaken opinion that money they pay for their subscription should go towards supporting and improving the game. The fact is their subscription gets them playing time on this game as it exists and that is all. CCP is free to spend their income, time, and resources on anything they want to spend it on.


CCP is also 'free' to pull the plug. As you say, EVE (an immensely profitable game) is currently (after 8 years!) still full of bugs, exploits, imbalanced gameplay, broken features, unused ships, bots, etc. A game developer that cared about its reputation and its signature game would be allocating sufficient resources to fix those issues in a timely manner. CCP doesn't and isn't.

They have the legal right to do so, but so what? Any business has the legal right to behave unprofessionally, to neglect its core product and to show contempt for its customers, but they generally don't remain profitable for long if they choose that route.


Just as CCP is free to spend their time, money, and resources anyway they want, you are free to stop subscribing if you do not enjoy playing it, or find another game you enjoy playing more. Their pride and professionalism really doesn't weigh into that decision in more than an indirect way. Also your stuff can i haz?


I'll tell you as someone who has finally gotten tired of seeing all MMORPGs follow the exact same cycle again and again.

You and a select few other players who constantly go around picking on and harassing players who have a problem with the way the game caters purely to one group of people and no one else are going to end up alone. With no one left to gank, you will get bored, we will be gone and playing more fun games like Minecraft and Counter Strike. Then the game will finally shut down after being kept alive for several more years by ignorant investors with deep pockets and you will realise you have wasted a good portion of your life being a prick.

Postrem Inkunen
Posted - 2011.08.05 22:18:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Postrem Inkunen on 05/08/2011 22:19:03
I'm not an "Incarna Hater" but I have to admit pretty much everything about this expansion should be an embarrassment to CCP.
Originally by: Nova Kira
1. Is the NeX store truly that horrible?

For a game about internet spaceships to be selling utterly meaningless and useless vanity items for an avatar that nobody ever sees is just inexplicable. And the fact that they are so expensive just shows how poor CCPs business acumen is.

Originally by: Nova Kira
2. The Leaks. Is it really that shocking that CCP is attempting to make money?
Sell something worth my money and I'll pay it. It doesn't have to be (should never be) pay to win, it could be a hull paintjob, alternate models, or any number of convenience features I'm sure someone could think of.

Originally by: Nova Kira
3. Is the CQ really that terrible?
For a single tiny room with one character model (you) to run so terribly and load so slowly is just pathetic.


Originally by: Nova Kira
4. The Door.
The 3d station environment and spinnable ship model that they removed ran faster and loaded quicker than their 2d jpeg of a door. I didn't think this level of failure was possible, but here it is.

I love EVE, the game has a life of its own, and in spite of CCP's blatantly terrible management, I will continue to pay money to play this game. But lately I am finding myself wishing they would just sell the property to someone else. Anyone else could probably manage this game better than they have been. It really is quite sad.

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.08.05 23:18:00 - [49]
 

1. The concept of the NeX did not bother me as a plex sink for people and their ego's. I really did not care until I was watching the alliance tourney. Getting to see how they were promoting it in the worst way with a team of shills and hacks and especially CCP Zinfandel coming across as a con pushing the worst form of empty advertisement set off alarms as to what was to come and the attitude surrounding it. When I saw the prices I wasn't angry I just laughed.

2. Greed is good was for me further proof that after t20 all attempts at transparency, honesty, and excellence were nothing more than the further collapse of any scruples or rationality that the management had. I understood it was a debate but when you make assurances the game will not go down that road and one of your own is disgusted and disgruntled enough to show your true intent it speaks volumes.

3. The CQ again is reinforcement of the first two points, over 5 years of development for a WOD alpha that's so broken from the onset only CCP would dare spin it as anything but garbage. Everyone in corp and local asking how to turn it off as soon as I logged into incarna. The concept was awesome but again the poison that is management at CCP ensured that it's execution was suicidal at best.

With all the problems in their core product this is really the pinnacle of 5 years of work? A forced alpha of an engine that never should have seen the light of day. It's frankly embarrassing and again speaks volumes as to the attitudes of those at the helm of this company. After 8 years of the same song and dance and proof after proof of what is acceptable and what these efforts bring people are actually believing this will get better?

4. The door for me was just an anagram on the death of a feeling. A loss of functionality coupled with a loss of immersion was enough to make me step back and question why I am helping to support something like this when such a disconnect exist at such a profound level between players and creators. Again it begs the question, was this the best they could do? Countless years of CCP chest beating about how awesome they are while the game stagnates and repeated examples of what they consider to be excellence coming up crippled and unfinished to languish in limbo.

The winter expansion is the last straw for me, I stopped my subs burning out because of the people I played with and one last hope that CCP might do something right for a change but that thought simply causes me to call myself naive. I have to hand it to CCP, they created an expansion that took my form of entertainment and made me question why I am even wasting my time with it. I've never had a game do that ever.

Phil MacMannon
Fantastic Gymnastics
Posted - 2011.08.05 23:20:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Alayla Nightfall
There is no relation between the 2 environments right out of the box.


For me this is part of the problem. CCP seem to have forgotten that it took them 8 years to get the FIS aspect of the game to where it is now.

They fail to see that incarna, as it is, is essentially a completely seperate game from the rest of the universe. Because they do not understand this, they seem to think that this new part of the game is to be treated AS IMPORTANT or MORE IMPORTANT in comparision to the FIS part of the game.

They fail to see that it needs to EARN that position. The only way it can earn that position is for incarna to develop naturally over time, just like the FIS part had too.

As time passes, the incarna aspect will grow in depth and complexity, and perhaps, in time, probably years, it may EARN it's place as an equal to the FIS aspect of the game.

Until that time comes it CANNOT be treated as an equal, because as it currently stands, it is not. It MUST take a secondary role in comparison to FIS until the time comes where it has EARNED it's place as it's equal, in terms of depth and complexity, and not before.

Jeff Severasse
Posted - 2011.08.06 04:54:00 - [51]
 

1. Couldn’t really care less about the NeX store but to me it has become the symbol of financial irresponsibility. To explain after reviewing the 2010 CCP financial statements (Seen here) I noticed a cash flow issue, one which could cause significant problems for CCP. This cash flow issue didn’t really phase me (since I can do nothing about it) until the NeX store got implemented, then it dawned on me. (Incoming assumption) The Nex store is CCP’s response to their cash flow problems, makes sense when you think about it (again IF it’s true). Ultimately I don’t care I just associate the NeX store with CCP’s supposed financial struggles.

2. All companies need to make money, it’s how they survive and grow. However for me it’s how they SPEND that money. Again referencing the financial statement above its clear CCP extended their finances a little far taking on two new MMO developments and now it’s costing the Eve community in development time (hey someone has to program the items.)

3. Live in a WH, so I don’t use CQ so *shrug*.

4. First time I saw the door I laughed very hard saying to myself “Well CCP has made it clear where we can go if we don’t like the direction.” What would have made it even better (and funnier) was if they also would have put a sign on it saying “Don’t let me hit you on the way out!”

In the end, I don’t hate Incarna, just some of the things it represents…to me. On that note I bet a lot of players wouldn’t care about the “money grubbing” CCP supposedly has if they introduced the store during the good times and not when they are short of isk.

One last thing…I don’t think Incarna is an expansion….I think it’s an “e” and we are waiting for the “xpansion”.

Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.06 07:22:00 - [52]
 

Its taken me a couple of days to get caught up to the situation pre and post the most recent expansion, been away for over a year.

My take on it as a player returning is two fold.

The worst part about this I think is that after only 1 day of in game time I'm already bored and annoyed with Incarna. When you get right down to it, it doesn't do anything. You can walk around your station like a turtle to get to areas of the game you can get to with your quick buttons. You can't see anyone, talk to anyone or do anything in that room you can't already do with your quick buttons. Its actually pretty worthless but the impact on performance is atrocious. Really very emberassing for CCP, certainly not having the effect on the game I think they intended.

The second part is the NEX store. All and all I think its a cool idea, certainly the pricing is so outragiously stupid I would never in a million years buy anything from it, but I think the idea is sound. I have to agree however the moment you start selling ISK, Skill Points and powerful in game items that are superior to what you can get in the game, the whole joy of the advancement and work of the game as an experianced player is lost. How much fun is it to be a 5 year veteran and than have a newb buy himself into a better character than you.

Ya I can see people rage quitting over that.

The Offerer
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.06 08:02:00 - [53]
 

1) NeX store is bad (wouldn't say horrible as it's not game breaking). It made us look like idiots who play the "$70 monocle game". But, if you don't tell your friends that you are playing, it's all cool.

2) Yep, it's shocking that CCP wants to make money by cutting the branch they are standing on to sell it as firewood.
Eve is not WoW.
Profit can be made by fixing lag, fixing bugs, finishing half-finished content, balancing the game (to make it slightly more interesting)... you know... "profit from subscriptions" kind of profit. Oh... and vanity MT items are cool with me, but that isn't what brings new players or keeps the old ones in the game.

3) CQ is not terrible. It doesn't exist. All I can see is "The Door". On minimum settings it can go 5 FPS max, while I can play... say F.E.A.R. on maximum settings at 30-35 FPS. And yeah... it's a couple of year old game... and yeah, it looks way better than CQ on low settings.

4) Removing features and calling it "an expansion" is hilarious. First we had multiple station environments per race. Trinity reduced that to one interior per race... not exactly cool, but manageable. Incarna reduced it to The Door, or if you are lucky, to one single room. In addition to that, they've removed features that vast majority of players used without making an alternative - like double click in empty space to open cargo hold, or drag and drop a ship in empty space to make it active. Removing widely used features is a horrible design methodology. If they continue deploying unfinished half-implemented content, there will be an "expansion" that will kill the game (literally make it unplayable for the majority of players) and we will witness the first rollback to an earlier version. Considering how they deployed expansions so far, we won't wait long until that happens (and all problems, item/skill losses that will follow).

Franny
Mentis Seorsum
Posted - 2011.08.06 08:06:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Franny on 06/08/2011 08:06:21
IF they recoded it so it was optimized, not a bloated memory leak that coupled with Win7 already being a memory ***** cripples all but X64 with 8+gig ram systems if on when running multiple clients(i'm running X64, but I have to RMA some RAM :( so not at 8gigs right now)
IF they recoded it so it wasn't anti ATI(or at least not pro nvidia)...you notice most of us with sever drops in FPS are ATI users, yet nvidia users claim to be ok
IF it didn't load slower while disabled than the old pre 'expansion' stations
if the CQ ship/cargo UI was more user friendly, not a click & guess fest
if it was an actual step towards what they previewed for us in WiS YEARS ago and not a single room

IF IT WAS OPTIONAL to use, not shoved down our throats

now the next Incarna patch might address some of those

Lord Kreza
Posted - 2011.08.06 08:08:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
1. It's laughable. It is less agile than even the LP store and that one is already pretty pathetic.
2. It's not that CCP wants to make money, it's the haughty and backhanded attitude it displayed while doing so.
3. It's not terrible, it's nothing. Just a single room, a single design type and no new functionality gameplay wise.
4. The door is a insult. It's removing functionality from the game and declaring it an expansion.


This, a thousand times this.

Athiven SkyWolf
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.06 08:16:00 - [56]
 

I personally like Incarna. As a matter of fact i started playing in 2004 but stopped playing for 6 years. Could not really ever get used to never see others other than ships. I guess i might be claustrophobic but i know i was not allowed having the feeling. I am back because of Incarna, can't wait to walk in other station areas than my quarters. So to people whining and leaving because of it, good bye, i am sure others, new and coming back veterans like me, will replace their subs.

Darth Helmat
Posted - 2011.08.06 11:33:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Darth Helmat on 06/08/2011 11:36:07
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
OP,

The problem with your post (and thinking) is that it is reasoned and proportional. What we saw on the forums was players put 2 and 2 together, come up with about 19, then it all went RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE and anyone who said anything different was a CCP dev alt, "Stupid noob" or whatever.

Any attempt made by CCP to give a metered response was met with extreme hostility and clouded thinking, to say the least.

Yes, companies explore ways of making money. It's what they do. It's what they have to do.

Would you rather CCP closed shop and said "well actually, we never explored selling vanity items .. ****, that might have actually worked"?



Quite right - however it is still made of FAIL. The existing player base, I don't think, is that interested in buying vanity items. So incremental cash for CCP is tiny. Offset against that is 18 months of lack of FiS which has not increased the player base and subscriptions, and arguably lost a few. The failure to increase subscriptions so massively out-ways anything else because it's recurrent income. If you extrapolate the growth curve from pre-2009, then eve should have about 20-30% more subscriptions now, which is a **** load more than they will ever make in monocles.

So with regards to the OP, its not NEX itself, or even the content free CQ and its associated irritations, its the lack of evolution of the core game. No one plays the same game forever, so if you want to retain players and grow, you have to update the core to keep interest.






who shat themselves
Posted - 2011.08.06 11:58:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Nova Kira
2. The Leaks. Is it really that shocking that CCP is attempting to make money? Vanity items have always sold well when offered... when Blizzard opened a store for WoW vanity pets and mounts, they made a killing. CCP has, from the start, allowed players to be closer to the evolution of their game than any other gaming company that I know about. Conversely, CCP isn't a charity, it intends to make a profit. The fact that they're able to do this while also working on something they love is a fantastic situation. So maybe Hillmar got ahead of himself, the best way to make him eat his statement is to ignore the NeX.


Originally by: Abrazzar

2. It's not that CCP wants to make money, it's the haughty and backhanded attitude it displayed while doing so.


"we have already sold OVER FIFTY MONOCLES >:)"

Mary Astell
Posted - 2011.08.06 14:38:00 - [59]
 

I couldnt care less about nex. I dislike the fact that basic functionality has been removed. Opening current ship cargo bay by double clicking in hanger without changing to ship tab then back to items tab.

Being able to see your ship at all times.

What do i get in replacement of this basic functionality and convenience? Nothing at all apart from clothes.

I like the look of incarna, but the day someone said 'but what about...' and someone replied 'you cant do that anymore', incarna was being done wrong.

Uuali
Posted - 2011.08.06 16:50:00 - [60]
 

1. I AM THE CUSTOMER THEY MADE THE NEX STORE FOR! I can't afford the stuff on there. I'm a casual player. I'd like to walk in stations and play Barbie. They aren't making it easy. That should be easy to do and affordable for what it is… walking… in… stations… period!

2. They stated something internally that went against what was said publicly. We wanted to protest to make sure they heard us and understood we drew the line at game changing MT.

3. Yes, CQ is terrible. It is half-assed, took a simple ergonomic functionality and foisted a more complex methodology on the customer that was not needed. It wasn't supposed to be CQ. It was supposed to be Dock>Ship>Optional disembark into station. The CQ thing is something they just threw out there a few months back. It was a surprise addition inserted into the WiS mix and it was not made optional. It is not optimized. I'M NOT BUYING A NEW COMPUTER FOR THIS! Once again a slap in the face to the very demographic they are aiming at.

4. The door is a poor excuse for optional and it is supposed to only be a temperary reprieve. I play this game for the atmosphere, the look. A ship in the hangar is cooler than a static image of anything, especially a door. Again, It is the difference in docking your ship and choosing to get out vs. being forced to be out of your ship for no apparent reason than to market the "wonderful" mechanic that is the CQ. Dirty pool ole' boy!


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