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Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.05 14:43:00 - [1]
 

Ya know, calling yourselves 'loyalists' suggests an air of legitimacy for those disloyal to the Empire.

You really should come up with a better term for yourselves.


Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.05 15:12:00 - [2]
 

Why does it matter if it's "Amarrian" loyalists or any other?

And even then... how is calling someone "disloyal" as opposed to being "loyal" giving them any legitimacy?

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.05 15:57:00 - [3]
 

We're called loyalists because we're loyal.

Loyal to our friends, Loyal to the Empire and loyal to God.

Emoh Aidem
Posted - 2011.08.05 17:37:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Emoh Aidem on 05/08/2011 17:40:39
Well for me the whole "Amarr Victor" always makes me laugh when I see someone say it. I don't recall hearing Gallente Federalist or members of the state express their loyality in 2 words. The only other group to do this that I'm aware of is the Minmatar who end some of their messages with "We come for our people." Maybe the Caldari and Gallente needs to make a catchy catch phrase to express themselves in 4 words or less also.

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:50:00 - [5]
 

"Amarr Victor" is not an expression of loyalty, it's an expression of victory and has been carried over from the ancient Empire. It was declared loudly to indicate the end of a battle in favor of the Amarr and indicate a change in focus from combat to tending to the wounded and celebration of victory.

Secondly, the Admiral is correct in what "loyalist" means.

Odelya d'Hanguest
ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES
Posted - 2011.08.06 16:15:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Kazzzi

You really should come up with a better term for yourselves.

Thou dankish dizzy-eyed malt-worm! In civility thou seem'st so empty.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.07 00:52:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kazzzi
Ya know, calling yourselves 'loyalists' suggests an air of legitimacy for those disloyal to the Empire.

You really should come up with a better term for yourselves.




I don't recall ever calling myself a loyalist. I also don't use the term Amarr Bloc.

Amarr capsuleer politics don't concern themselves much with who is called or calls himself a loyalist, but more with who is loyal and how do they express that loyalty.

Besides, what does 'Heathen Legion' signify really?

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.07 04:42:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
Besides, what does 'Heathen Legion' signify really?


If you have to ask, you'll never know.

Tigerfish Torpedo
Underworld Protection Agency
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.08.08 08:46:00 - [9]
 

Sometimes I wonder whether people have a particular system for working out which alliance or faction to 'prod' with the proverbial stick, or whether it's some sort of random brain pattern that screams, 'hey, this faction hasn't been goaded lately'.

Why must people start a thread simply to troll a faction? It gets tiresome.

Tiger.

Scandalous Temptress
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.08 11:37:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Tigerfish Torpedo
Sometimes I wonder whether people have a particular system for working out which alliance or faction to 'prod' with the proverbial stick, or whether it's some sort of random brain pattern that screams, 'hey, this faction hasn't been goaded lately'.



Rest assured that Jarl Kazzzi's random brain patterns are quite dedicated to goading Amarrian loyalists above all other factions.


Laerise
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.08 19:51:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Emoh Aidem
Edited by: Emoh Aidem on 05/08/2011 17:40:39
Well for me the whole "Amarr Victor" always makes me laugh when I see someone say it. I don't recall hearing Gallente Federalist or members of the state express their loyality in 2 words. The only other group to do this that I'm aware of is the Minmatar who end some of their messages with "We come for our people." Maybe the Caldari and Gallente needs to make a catchy catch phrase to express themselves in 4 words or less also.



Wrong.

We come for our people, and we have the receipt to prove they're ours.

lucifers widow
United Front Alliance renting corp
Posted - 2011.08.09 12:07:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Laerise

Wrong.

We come for our people, and we have the receipt to prove they're ours.


Guessing you put Admiral Blakes great quote into the wrong translation machine.Rolling Eyes

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.08.12 06:12:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Emoh Aidem
Edited by: Emoh Aidem on 05/08/2011 17:40:39
Well for me the whole "Amarr Victor" always makes me laugh when I see someone say it. I don't recall hearing Gallente Federalist or members of the state express their loyality in 2 words. The only other group to do this that I'm aware of is the Minmatar who end some of their messages with "We come for our people." Maybe the Caldari and Gallente needs to make a catchy catch phrase to express themselves in 4 words or less also.



False, Caldari pilots tend to use "For the State" as a rallying cry, and many Nulli pilots are also quite fond of "We r who we r" alongside the standard Amarr Victor.

Nur AlHuda
Amarr
Callide Vulpis
Posted - 2011.08.12 10:20:00 - [14]
 

Well Empire can always count on many corporations and alliances anytime it needs their help. Republic cant. Go figure.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.12 11:38:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Nur AlHuda
Well Empire can always count on many corporations and alliances anytime it needs their help. Republic cant. Go figure.


F*ck the Republic.

Mitara Newelle
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.12 17:59:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Kazzzi
Originally by: Nur AlHuda
Well Empire can always count on many corporations and alliances anytime it needs their help. Republic cant. Go figure.


F*ck the Republic.


Not the choice of words I would use, but I share the same sentiment.

Agreeing with the traitor Kazzzi twice in the same day? Is this some obscure holiday of performing pranks?



Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.13 09:30:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Mitara Newelle

Agreeing with the traitor Kazzzi twice in the same day? Is this some obscure holiday of performing pranks?



I know right? What are you up to later? I've got a twelve pack and a new planetary vehicle.


Caellach Marellus
Gallente
Nephtys Ventures inc
Posted - 2011.08.13 11:13:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Caellach Marellus on 13/08/2011 11:20:48
Every time I see "Amarr Victor" I can't help but wonder who Victor is and what he's done.

I suppose similar jokes could be made with many other battle and victory cries, some more crude than others.

Quote:
I don't recall hearing Gallente Federalist or members of the state express their loyality in 2 words.


I've seen Viva Federation a few times, although it is somewhat grammatically incorrect.


Also on a side note, it's good to see people agree, moreso when they're on other sides of the fence. It gives a little spark of hope that one day we might just all get on.

Conventia Underking
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:35:00 - [19]
 

It would seem that you gave up the right to question the faithful when you became a traitor, besides, what difference does it make what name is used to refer to a group you left behind?

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.18 22:43:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Kazzzi on 18/08/2011 22:43:48

Originally by: Conventia Underking
what difference does it make what name is used to refer to a group you left behind?


I haven't left you behind. I'm just leading the charge!


Conventia Underking
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.18 22:55:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Kazzzi
Edited by: Kazzzi on 18/08/2011 22:43:48
I haven't left you behind. I'm just leading the charge!



In the wrong direction. It all makes sense now.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.08.18 23:01:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 18/08/2011 23:03:56
Hm. It is a bit funny how only those loyal to the cluster's more ... hm, "restrictive" regimes tend to get called "loyalists."

"Empire loyalists."

"State loyalists."

"Sansha loyalists."

It's rarely Federal, Republic, SoE, Intaki, Mordu's, ORE, Angel Cartel, Serpentis, Blood Raider, EoM....

Ah, wait. It is sometimes "Gurista loyalists," isn't it. Guristas.... Not exactly restrictive, but still mightily Caldari.

Hm.

Edit:

Perhaps it applies primarily to those groups with a single, relatively static (in reality or just in perception) leader? The Empress, "Master" Kuvakei, Tibus Heth (or the megacorporations), The Rabbit? Someone or something aside from the nation itself to be "loyal" to?

... Then again, there's still the Serpentis ... Salvador Sarpati....

Conventia Underking
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.18 23:35:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Hm. It is a bit funny how only those loyal to the cluster's more ... hm, "restrictive" regimes tend to get called "loyalists."


What would you consider yourself? Just curious, as far as labels go.

Nakal Ashera
Posted - 2011.08.19 00:16:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Nakal Ashera on 19/08/2011 00:18:18
Edited by: Nakal Ashera on 19/08/2011 00:17:01
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 18/08/2011 23:03:56
Hm. It is a bit funny how only those loyal to the cluster's more ... hm, "restrictive" regimes tend to get called "loyalists."

"Empire loyalists."

"State loyalists."

"Sansha loyalists."

It's rarely Federal, Republic, SoE, Intaki, Mordu's, ORE, Angel Cartel, Serpentis, Blood Raider, EoM....

Ah, wait. It is sometimes "Gurista loyalists," isn't it. Guristas.... Not exactly restrictive, but still mightily Caldari.

Hm.

Edit:

Perhaps it applies primarily to those groups with a single, relatively static (in reality or just in perception) leader? The Empress, "Master" Kuvakei, Tibus Heth (or the megacorporations), The Rabbit? Someone or something aside from the nation itself to be "loyal" to?

... Then again, there's still the Serpentis ... Salvador Sarpati....


It is kind of strange, but I think it makes sense when you give it a bit of thought. In my mind, it's really two things that cause the "title" to be thrown around so much amongst those paticular groups. I think half of it's what you said - That being behind a single, strong leader gives people a greater feeling of belonging and direct connection to a group. An absolute ruler usually has simple, strong and clear goals, after all. (I think the reason Sarpati doesn't inspire this effect is because he, well, doesn't.)

But I think the most obvious cause for it to be frequently used is simply dissent.

I mean, the term mostly comes up, like you said, in factions which have a somewhat restrictive, or I suppose "Extremist" slant. Members of the group are expected to behave in a certain way, and not to dispute the general authority and rulership. They're also sometimes expected - Especially in the case of the Nation, I suppose - to commit or be involved in a number of acts that could be considered subjectively reprehensible. Thus, of course, a greater number of people are going to appear to be going against the grain just because the "grain" asks a lot of them, and some are not willing to meet that obligation.

And again, because of the restrictive nature, the members who do conform fully to the leaders or groups ideas are going to go to greater lengths to alienate those who do not wish or are unable to, regarding them as "not fully one of us" or "one of us except for this" or simply "our enemy", in extreme cases. And the more dissent that appears amongst the ranks, the more this grows.

"Loyalist", to me, is another way of saying, "In spite of".

Nautrally, the same ideals can be interpreted differently, and pretty soon you have people with completely different politics still calling themselves loyalists.

On the opposite end, in places where the restrictions are lesser, you can behave however you like (well, or closer to it), and still be considered a part of the group. Size grows at the expense of focus.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.08.19 01:39:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 19/08/2011 01:40:33
Not bad, Ms. Ashera. Not bad at all. There's only this one bit....

Originally by: Nakal Ashera
Size grows at the expense of focus.


I'd say "diversity" instead of size. The Caldari State may be a touch underpopulated, but it's still not exactly tiny, while the Amarrian Empire is the most populous single national entity in the cluster. However, neither is particularly diverse: conformity to certain comparatively narrow norms is expected in both.


Originally by: Conventia Underking
What would you consider yourself? Just curious, as far as labels go.


Labels? Ms. Underking, you really shouldn't tempt me like this ... ah, dear, how can I resist. All right, let's see....

I'd be a ... a mercenary/assassin, an explorer/thief, a light industrialist, a sometime trader, and a negotiably-neutral, Caldari-sympathizing Shuijing sect posthuman-isolationist demented infomorph kinslayer halfblood capsuleer weapon-of-mass-destruction Achur seeker. Oh, and sometimes, pirate. And maybe chatterbox.

I think that's everything that constitutes a "label" rather than a description and that doesn't overlap too much with other labels.

Incidentally, any combat pilot who claims not to be a weapon of mass destruction hasn't got his or her neurons around the details of the job yet.

Nakal Ashera
Posted - 2011.08.19 04:00:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 19/08/2011 01:40:33
I'd say "diversity" instead of size. The Caldari State may be a touch underpopulated, but it's still not exactly tiny, while the Amarrian Empire is the most populous single national entity in the cluster. However, neither is particularly diverse: conformity to certain comparatively narrow norms is expected in both.


Ah, you are right, of course. I was speaking far too generally; what I meant was relative size of the subgroup of a faction that feels aligned with it's general direction, versus the members that feel alienated in some way by it. For example, a Federation citizen who happened to be an extreme layabout and wished to spend all of his time watching holoreels and sleeping for 10 hours a day would feel little social pressue against him doing just that, as long as he had the money to maintain his lifestyle. While in Caldari society, he would likely be regarded very poorly by his peers.

Then again, that same citizen in the State may also be pushed into becoming a far more constructive human being, which wouldn't happen elsewhere. Or he may not. Like I said, size versus focus.

That's a... Great deal of labels, by the way. But then, I'd think most people would do the same. It always puzzles me when someone chooses to self-identity with a single one, such as in this case, "Loyalist".

Commander Dirtbag
Amarr
Posted - 2011.08.19 04:19:00 - [27]
 

You may all swear loyalty to me. I am your master now. You may call yourselves "Dirtbag Loyalists".

Your loving master,
Dirtbag

Caellach Marellus
Gallente
Nephtys Ventures inc
Posted - 2011.08.19 11:12:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth

... Then again, there's still the Serpentis ... Salvador Sarpati....


Serpentis loyallists is a bit of a mouthful compaired to the others mind.

Also far too many s's

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.19 12:00:00 - [29]
 

I have seen mentionned my share of "Federation loyalists", and some "Republic loyalists" either.

Victoria Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.19 14:41:00 - [30]
 

Uh oh, this thread is becoming distressingly serious.

Quick Kazzzi, say something silly.


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