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Unit XS365BT
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
Posted - 2011.08.05 11:42:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Unit XS365BT on 05/08/2011 14:21:01
Edited by: Unit XS365BT on 05/08/2011 14:05:24
The theoretical work below is the result of our research into various projects being performed at this time by the Arek'Jaalan project.

The majority of these theories are conjecture, as there is insufficient data at this time to ascertain the true events regarding these historical events. However, research into these events continues.

I sincerely hope i am wrong.

We Return.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The theories behind the disappearance of both the talocan and 'sleeper' species are generally in line with the theories on the jove, specifically that they moved on, however we do not believe that this is the case.

Several references within sleeper constructed databases mention research into talocan technologies, and research into viruses.

this information has led us to a startling and wide reaching theory concerning the Talocan, Sleepers and Rogue drone populations, and the potential links between them.

to explain we should start at the beginning.

Firstly, we believe that the Sleepers were originally the Talocan equivalent of the capsuleer.

Instead of being physically attached to their vessel via a capsule however, they were remotely linked to it, while their physical forms lay in a talocan structure. in essence, they were a form of expendable military force, controlled from afar and used for scouting and defensive matters.

During the early development of these remote drones, it was decided that, due to their expendable nature, some form of failsafe would need to be employed, in case a talocan 'capsuleer' decided to take actions against the will of the talocan leadership. (the CONCORD of talocans in effect) this failsafe is still in place. as can be seen with the warp-drive detonator incorporated into every sleeper drone.

as can be seen from the tensions between capsuleers today and the baseline human population, those who do not posess the power and prestige of capsuleer status can be fearful, or even directly violent towards capsuleers. a war between these two groups is possible.

translated into the past, with talocan and sleeper entities, this tension could have resulted in war.

the first acts of the sleeper populations would have been to repurpose the sleeper drone failsafe as a self destruct. removing control of the device from the talocan, and find a method to fully transcend their physical form, becomming infomorphic instead of biological.

the transition to infomorphs was required as the 'sleeping' controllers of the drones would be incredibly susceptible to Talocan counter-assault. whereas infomorphic data can be transmitted prior to the destruction of a 'drone' and re-incorporated into the next drone to be built.

the war between these two advanced species appears to have ravaged both sides. however it is apparent that the sleepers gained the upper hand. It is at this time that we believe the Talocan released a morphic AI-virus into the sleeper population, in a last ditch attempt to save themselves. while this failed, it caused the sleepers to slowly degenerate into the drones we now meet, instead of the advanced infomorphic society they became. It appears that this was a slow process however, as they had sufficient time to create whole new structures in Anoikis, that appear to be primarily designed for function rather than aesthetics. (though they are still interesting to look at)

This leads us to two specific headings in the site known as the mirror.

Triage - This is where the sleepers examined damaged Infomorphic data, to discern the cause of the damage,

Quarantine - This is where virally infected infomorphic data was placed prior to transmission to a Virus Vault of some form. (all anti-viral programs available today use this principle. quarrantining suspected files until a decision or diagnosis is completed regarding their status)


Unit XS365BT
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
Posted - 2011.08.05 11:45:00 - [2]
 

it is our theory, at this time, that the sleepers, when they had isolated virally infected infomorphs, and diagnosed them as 'unrecoverable' that they transmitted these infomorphs to a distant region of space, far from their homes, in the hope of removing the viral taint from their species.

This leads us to Operation Spectrum Breach. (OSB)

While the potential remains that the 6 named drones from the Code Aria report were responsible for the event that caused this operation's failure, we believe that the aforementioned drones were involved in other activities at this time.

It is our theory that the worker drones within the OSB area of operations uncovered the secure data storage device that contained the damaged infomorphic data sent to this region of space by the sleepers. the speed of infection amongst the drones across 8 linked regions of space appears to be far in advance of new eden technology of the time, therefore it is a feasible assumption that some outside influence was at work.

this theory would explain both the speed of OSB drone infection and the current apparrent link between the supposed awakened sleeper infomorph known only as 'Awakened Infomorph' and the Rogue drone forces that have recently appearred within the Eve constellation.

it would also explain why in several locations throughout the cluster, there are rogue drone elements that do not follow the standard practices of the rogue drones that are most commonly encountered within the cluster.

It is these discrepancies that we believe the 'named' drones from the Code Aria reports were actively working upon during the time of the OSB event.

Nukleanis
Falcon Advanced Industries
Posted - 2011.08.05 13:39:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Unit XS365BT
This leads us to two specific headings in the site known as the mirror.

Triage - This is where the sleepers examined damaged Infomorphic data, to discern the cause of the damage,

Quarrantine - This is where virally infected infomorphic data was placed prior to transmission to a Virus Vault of some form. (all anti-viral programs available today use this principle. quarrantining suspected files until a decision or diagnosis is completed regarding their status)


I'm afraid I have to disagree here. The Mirror makes reference to physical entities such as animal testing, holding pens and genetic testing. Surely, if a society was already safely preserved and only data was at risk, there would be no need for genetic tests on animals and the study of applications on humans?

Unit XS365BT
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
Posted - 2011.08.05 14:05:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Nukleanis

I'm afraid I have to disagree here. The Mirror makes reference to physical entities such as animal testing, holding pens and genetic testing. Surely, if a society was already safely preserved and only data was at risk, there would be no need for genetic tests on animals and the study of applications on humans?


Confirmed, however, these facilities could have also been used for the creation of a biological virus. should our theory concerning the conflict between sleeper and talocan forces be true, it is not unconcievable that the sleepers would have created a virus that in their current form, they were immune to, one with a lifespan long enough to destroy their enemy, yet short enough to be neutralised prior to their return to their original form.

We Return.

Nukleanis
Falcon Advanced Industries
Posted - 2011.08.05 14:55:00 - [5]
 

Very interesting. :)

I am curious, however. The drones sighted at Talocan complexes: Are they of sleeper origin? And if so, why would they patrol ruins of a deceased civilisation instead of eliminating them outright?

Unit XS365BT
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
Posted - 2011.08.05 15:07:00 - [6]
 

with reference to another heading in the mirror, they appear to be researching talocan technologies. perhaps they keep these items intact for that purpose.

We Return.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.05 15:55:00 - [7]
 

Very interesting conjecture.

Vanneth
Caldari
The Voidstalker Heresy
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:13:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Unit XS365BT
This leads us to two specific headings in the site known as the mirror.

Triage - This is where the sleepers examined damaged Infomorphic data, to discern the cause of the damage,

Quarrantine - This is where virally infected infomorphic data was placed prior to transmission to a Virus Vault of some form. (all anti-viral programs available today use this principle. quarrantining suspected files until a decision or diagnosis is completed regarding their status)


The more salient point that Nukleanis failed to point out is the fact that these Mirror headings are located in the Mirror's Medical Enclave. While many antiviral programs do use some terms relating to pathogen control, none are so bold as to call their function "medicine".

Triage is common in emergency medical facilities, which all evidence suggests the Medical Enclave is. While the Sleepers may have used a trinary format to encode their data, digital viruses are largely yes/no in terms of infection. A file is either infected or not, with the occasional carrier.

An infomorph, like an AI, may consist of multiple files that may be infected, leading to the progressive corruption of the entity. This could mimic the levels of pathogenic infection found in biological entities, but similar quarantine protocols would be ineffective - the Mirror's quarantine is labeled in levels (A, B, C, X), indicating communal isolation. Individual entities, if not individual files, would need to be completely isolated, otherwise infection of communally isolated entities would progress exponentially. This is not true of biological entities.

The usage of quarantine in an antiviral function would also render Stasis defunct, as quarantine would fill this role in the sense it is being used - isolation/shutdown.

As for the rebuttal to animal testing - developing a pathogenic weapon would be woefully inadequate when tested exclusively on animals. Rates of infection, symptoms, and mortality rates vary wildly between species. Animal testing would essentially be a shot in the dark in this context. Until human medical experimentation is discovered, all evidence indicates the above factors being devoted to a cure.

While that is a common, perhaps arid theory, it has its ground in what we do know. New ideas are always needed, and most of your conjecture is still afloat. I point out error to see repair and progress, not to shut down.

Unit XS365BT
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
Posted - 2011.08.05 20:07:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Vanneth

The more salient point that Nukleanis failed to point out is the fact that these Mirror headings are located in the Mirror's Medical Enclave. While many antiviral programs do use some terms relating to pathogen control, none are so bold as to call their function "medicine".


Perhaps, but Sleepers are commonly referred to as infomorphs who were once human, somtimes described even as living in some form of virtual world. It makes sense given these parameters that they would continue to use the terms they used prior to becomming an infomorphic species.

Originally by: Vanneth
Triage is common in emergency medical facilities, which all evidence suggests the Medical Enclave is. While the Sleepers may have used a trinary format to encode their data, digital viruses are largely yes/no in terms of infection. A file is either infected or not, with the occasional carrier.


Negative, a sufficiently advanced AI or infomorph contains what we would refer to as morphic code. code that has the ability to rewrite itself to counteract any number of situations, therefore detection of a viral infection would not be as simple as a yes/no function, as the code would need to be examined in full to determine if an infection is present.

Originally by: Vanneth
An infomorph, like an AI, may consist of multiple files that may be infected, leading to the progressive corruption of the entity. This could mimic the levels of pathogenic infection found in biological entities, but similar quarantine protocols would be ineffective - the Mirror's quarantine is labeled in levels (A, B, C, X), indicating communal isolation. Individual entities, if not individual files, would need to be completely isolated, otherwise infection of communally isolated entities would progress exponentially. This is not true of biological entities.


There is no data to support the assumption that each infected infomorph would not have been separately confined, the choice of headings could simply refer to stages of infection. A, B and C being incremental while X being fully infected.

Originally by: Vanneth
The usage of quarantine in an antiviral function would also render Stasis defunct, as quarantine would fill this role in the sense it is being used - isolation/shutdown.


We do not understand how this could be. As we have stated in our theory, we believe that the sleeper infomorphs were once talocan. The stasis chambers are, in our opinion, the locale where the sleepers maintain the physical forms they held prior to becomming infomorphic.

Originally by: Vanneth
As for the rebuttal to animal testing - developing a pathogenic weapon would be woefully inadequate when tested exclusively on animals. Rates of infection, symptoms, and mortality rates vary wildly between species. Animal testing would essentially be a shot in the dark in this context. Until human medical experimentation is discovered, all evidence indicates the above factors being devoted to a cure.

While that is a common, perhaps arid theory, it has its ground in what we do know. New ideas are always needed, and most of your conjecture is still afloat. I point out error to see repair and progress, not to shut down.


Perhaps the testing would have been inadequate, but should the theory above be correct, the sleepers would have had no choice other than to use animals, or their own original bodies. given that they protect and repair these enclaves as seemingly a primary concern, it would be unlikely that they would choose the latter of the two options.

Additionally, just as any tests on the creation of a pathogen would have been inadequate if tested on animals, so would the testing of a cure. There are species in the cluster who's body chemistry is sufficiently different from that of humans that the means to cure them would likely kill a human.

Gosakumori Noh
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.08.05 23:44:00 - [10]
 

I do subscribe to the notion that a weapons program based in large part upon biology and cybernetics contributed to the downfall of Talocan and potentially Sleeper civilization. A "capsuleer" program would certainly fit that bill, and is quite an intriguing suggestion.

However, the sites do not seem to contain debris or other markings to support a pervasive civil war between the two factions; while architectural differences seem quite extreme to have essentially come from the same culture. Certainly today, capsuleers use vehicles and structures derived from our mother civilizations. Furthermore, the language of "quarantine" that pervades the ancient sites does not suggest battle between two opposing monolithic forces (capsuleers vs. "baseliners"), but rather the outbreak of something each society believed could be contained.

That said, if something such as you envision (a capsuleer program gone haywire) happened first to the Talocan, and then to the Sleepers after they discovered the Talocan efforts, it could align more with what we observe in the ruins.

It could also be a harbinger of our own fate.


Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.06 00:06:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 06/08/2011 00:07:02
This is very informative and it adds to my theory as well. Given the data presented thus far, I have not been able to shake the notion that there was some kind of virus of sorts.

Though my theory is that such a virus was itself an infomorph that could infect both organic and electronic systems.

With that, it's the only way I could explain the way civilisation collapsed at the close of the Eve gate. I even suspect that the gate was demolished intentionally to contain the infection.

From there my theory differs.

The only survivors were based on sub-cultures that might have existed at the time. We see such types now: freedom seekers, large tribalistic families looking for autonomy based on their blood lines, religious pilgrims seeking a simpler existence to get closer to their god, and rogue industrialists looking for better access to resources and escape from burocracy or might have been followers of someone named "John Galt" though the records are not clear on who that was.
These would be the only kinds of people who would be in areas remote enough or disconnected enough to avoid an infection that can transmit itself in computer networks and propagate into biological organisms and now we have 4 empires centered around these cultural facets of liberty, religion, corporatism, and tribalism.


Sadly, the planetary exploitation allowed to capsuleers today has not turned up any relics that could provide more direct evidence. Though I am holding out hope that this is simply because the existing endeavors are simply not looking for them. Even in wormhole systems, we could expect entire cities to be found but this has not yet happened and there is little evidence beyond the sleepers and the information found at their sites to suggest a human presence.




Vanneth
Caldari
The Voidstalker Heresy
Posted - 2011.08.06 00:31:00 - [12]
 

In response to the Unit's rebuttal:

Most is speculation, but some points beg argument.

There are instances of Sleepers switching paradigms to diagnostic terminology. As well, the presence of classrooms and residential areas in the Mirror indicate continued human existence. If the Sleepers had existed in such a complete infomorphic state, they would have long re-purposed such areas when they repurposed the Medical Enclave, though you seem to suggest that the Medical Enclave was created and named with infomorph existence in mind, which conflicts with the existence of human facilities.

While morphic code can stem the advance of infection, it cannot undo it. A file is still infected or not. Compare a file to a biological cell. When a pathogen infects a cell, it infests it and replicates, causing various levels of infection in the cell as the virus reproduces. When a digital virus attacks a file, it either succeeds in corrupting the file, or it does not. The file then proceeds to immediately infect other files, or simply carry the corruption. Morphic code cannot change this. As I had previously addressed, it can rewrite itself, slowing the corruption of the entity. A thorough diagnostic sweep would still reveal a corrupted file. This would not be performed in a "Triage" setting, as any suspected infection would be immediately isolated until confirmed, i.e. quarantine.

Maintaining stasis pods in close proximity to a digital quarantine is far more risky and reckless than an ancient, advanced race would permit. Given the unpredictablility of mundane processes when infected with a virus, a infomorph could react radically, putting cryogenic systems in danger. This proximity also represents the folly of placing an escape vessel so near a prison.

Similar to biological pathogen control, such an extensive virus management endeavor would call for emergency protocols. In the event of a contaminant breach, the entire encalve would go into a firewall lockdown to preserve the rest of the facility, possibilty even self-destruct. Even if the Sleepers were completely infomorphic at this point, the fact that they would continue to preserve their bodies suggests that they would not be so cavalier about losing them.

Testing a cure on animals is far more effective than testing a pathogenic weapon. This is due to symptoms of infection and death being the result of immune response. An animal's immune system will not react the same to a pathogen as a human's. On the other hand, a pathogen will react the same to a cure despite its host. Most mammals have similar reactions to the toxins and carcinogens potentially present in a cure, making animal testing a viable option.


 

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