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blankseplocked Discussion: Make the Scorpion a rail platform again?
 
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Seto Mazzarotto
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.02.27 12:52:00 - [1]
 

Those of you as old as I am remember a time when no Caldari ship had missile bonuses. Missile bonuses were nonexistant. It was also around this time that a new, nightmarish sniper setup was becoming more and more popular.

This, ladies and gents, was the Scorpion with a 10% hybrid turret optimal range bonus.

Now imagine it, if you will: The Scorpion, in all its fearsome majesty, with a new role in combat. Its current weapons damage capabilities are negligible at best in comparison to other battleships. Launchers, while effective, are only so-so with no ROF or damage type bonuses.

Thus, this fine ship is relegated to EW and the odd yahoo here and there who shield tanks it. It deserves better. It deserves to be the ultimate sniper.

What I propose, not only to those who will shoot down this idea and flame me in every way I can imagine, but to the devs if they read this board -- make the Scorpion a railgun platform again.

Its med slots are perfect for such a task, and the Caldari are so desperate for a gunship bigger than the Ferox.

Thoughts? Ideas? Flames? Put 'em down for all to read.

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2005.02.27 12:59:00 - [2]
 

Give it 5 turret slots, enough grid to fit 'em, and give it tracking/range bonuses for hybrids.

Current bonuses suck.

Seto Mazzarotto
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.02.27 13:07:00 - [3]
 

I think the 3-4 Tracking Computer II's people are liable to put in the meds would be enough of a tracking bonus. We wanna give the ship a new role, not make it the new Whine Topic of the Month.

Though yeah, more turret slots and grid would be needed, definitely.

Weston McArthur
Black Reign
FATAL Alliance
Posted - 2005.02.27 14:20:00 - [4]
 

Signed. Caldari needs a daddy to the Merlin and it's big brother the Moa.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2005.02.27 14:24:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Weston McArthur
Signed. Caldari needs a daddy to the Merlin and it's big brother the Moa.


...and a husband to the eagleRazz

Liu Kaskakka
PAK
Posted - 2005.02.27 15:07:00 - [6]
 

Sounds good, signed.

V1ceroy
Posted - 2005.02.27 15:16:00 - [7]
 

Agreed. Railguns should be the ultimate long range guns, but at the moments tachyons are much better by a huge margin.

Xtro 2
Caldari
El Bastardos
EVESpace
Posted - 2005.02.27 15:56:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Give it 5 turret slots, enough grid to fit 'em, and give it tracking/range bonuses for hybrids.

Current bonuses suck.


id reduce the launcher slots as well, making the highslot setup more akin to a dominix if rail bonus's are to be considered, this could be a better trade weapons wise after/if the proposed EW changes kick in.

Parallax Error
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2005.02.27 16:50:00 - [9]
 

Seems like a good idea to me, I would reckon that the scorp having the ability to fit 6 350mm Railguns would be about right, balance wise.

Does slightly touch on the subject though, that for long range setups to work well we need warp in distances of over 60km.

Buraken v2
Spontaneous Defenestration
Posted - 2005.02.27 17:19:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: V1ceroy
Agreed. Railguns should be the ultimate long range guns, but at the moments tachyons are much better by a huge margin.


mmmmm, a railboat with 8 estamel's railguns, cows go mooo

Mikelangelo
Gallente
Posted - 2005.02.27 17:26:00 - [11]
 

Reasons why you won't ever see a 6 turret slot Scorp.

1) People will start using them for mining in high sec space. That is SO wrong !

2) High number of turret slots AND high number of mid slots could lead to several overpowering combinations of modules. Can you say 4 tracking computers AND a decent shield tank? Seems a little wrong...

3) There is no reason why you can't put railguns on your Scorp now, but you'll only have 4 of them. SniperScorps are a classic. Hell I remember when people put 1400mm guns on scorps and sat out at 150km blowing the doo doo out of people.




Gunstar Zero
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.02.27 17:38:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Give it 5 turret slots, enough grid to fit 'em, and give it tracking/range bonuses for hybrids.

Current bonuses suck.


I'd say 6 tbh, 5 is still kinda weak.

Good idea though.

JoeSomebody
No Trademark
Notoriety Alliance
Posted - 2005.02.27 17:55:00 - [13]
 

signed, since if missles to be nerfed, Caldari should have some options.

John Blackthorn
Foundation
Posted - 2005.02.27 18:06:00 - [14]
 

I can't belive this post is here.. I was just in game trying to outfit my scorp for turrets instead of missles and got frustrated because I could not come up with any setup for turrets that seemed to remotely be workable.

It's a power issue, even using two rcu's in lows you can fit only two large turrets.. i was hoping for at least 3.

Last night in a fight i was so frustrated because my missles would never reach the targets before the enemy would just warp away and back.

-BT

Parallax Error
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2005.02.27 18:42:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Mikelangelo
Reasons why you won't ever see a 6 turret slot Scorp.

1) People will start using them for mining in high sec space. That is SO wrong !

2) High number of turret slots AND high number of mid slots could lead to several overpowering combinations of modules. Can you say 4 tracking computers AND a decent shield tank? Seems a little wrong...

3) There is no reason why you can't put railguns on your Scorp now, but you'll only have 4 of them. SniperScorps are a classic. Hell I remember when people put 1400mm guns on scorps and sat out at 150km blowing the doo doo out of people.






I love point number 1. It conjours up the whole sillyness of mining battleships all over again. Mining hardpoints..... the best fix that we never got.

Point 2: Its not as if other ships cant pull off something similar using other weapons.

Point 3: As opposed to the Apoc setups with Tachyons? Or the Typhoon setups with 4 1400mm?

Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2005.02.27 19:22:00 - [16]
 

Quote:

It's a power issue, even using two rcu's in lows you can fit only two large turrets.. i was hoping for at least 3.



Huh? What game are you playing? A scorp has 9000 base grid, which is 11250 with Engineering 5. Stick two RCU's II and you're looking at 14878 powergrid.

With 425mm's being 2750 each, you can easily fit 4 plus a good shield tank. Heck, you could fit five of them (13750 pg) and still have room for a 500 MW XLarge booster and a bunch of support modules.

You could even try to go with no tank at all and just stick dampners and tracking computers. Mag Stabs II in low and you have 4 railguns that are about as damaging as rails from a Railthron with twice the tracking.

Heck, I might even try this out; just for fun.


Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2005.02.27 19:41:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Stuart Price on 27/02/2005 19:42:01
I like this idea, I've always preferred gunships to missile boats, but also like to have medslots and shields, so I'm all for a change to the Scorp to make it a big Moa.

As for being able to mine with it in high sec? Meh, all other races have a 6 turret bs to mine with. (Personally, I have Mining 1 as my only industry skill and refuse to mine in ANY ship, but we're all different)

10% optimal and shield boost bonus would make it almost exactly like a big Moa. Oh yeah, and give it enough base grid to fit 350's in those slots :p

Kaylona Tso
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.02.27 21:08:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Give it 5 turret slots, enough grid to fit 'em, and give it tracking/range bonuses for hybrids.

Current bonuses suck.


give it the ol' range bonus back but leave the shield bonus. and yes give it a 5th turret slot.

Cadman Weyland
Irn Bru Crew
Posted - 2005.02.27 22:46:00 - [19]
 

Signed.. Make the Scorp a gunboat, keep the Raven a Missile boat.

Selim
Akh'Vehlr Industries
Posted - 2005.02.27 22:58:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Selim on 27/02/2005 22:59:49
Wouldnt that make sniper tempests obsolete? Rails can already outrange 1400s with long range ammo, and the scorp has 8 medslots for range enhancing mods. Plus its very long targetting range.

We don't need to make tempests lose its role again.

I give it a cautious yes. Just don't give it more powergrid, make it use 350's or dual 250's. It can always use PDS's like everyone else to fit the big guns.

Zyrla Bladestorm
Minmatar
Foundation
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.02.27 23:01:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Zyrla Bladestorm on 27/02/2005 23:01:33
I doubt they'd give it more grid if they gave it turrets, I mean look at the dominix : already a six turret ship, but with the same grid as the scorpion has currently, less mid slots, a much weaker base shield strength for the shield tank TomB claims its supposed to use and a smaller cap with the same recharge time Shocked

Seto Mazzarotto
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.02.27 23:26:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Parallax Error
Does slightly touch on the subject though, that for long range setups to work well we need warp in distances of over 60km.


If you frequent the area you work in, you can create your own warp-in points as far away as you like.

Otherwise you can use the range bonus to smack the bejeezus out of them with 425mm Thorium charges at 60km.

Matrix Aran
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.02.28 04:16:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Quote:

It's a power issue, even using two rcu's in lows you can fit only two large turrets.. i was hoping for at least 3.



Huh? What game are you playing? A scorp has 9000 base grid, which is 11250 with Engineering 5. Stick two RCU's II and you're looking at 14878 powergrid.

With 425mm's being 2750 each, you can easily fit 4 plus a good shield tank. Heck, you could fit five of them (13750 pg) and still have room for a 500 MW XLarge booster and a bunch of support modules.

You could even try to go with no tank at all and just stick dampners and tracking computers. Mag Stabs II in low and you have 4 railguns that are about as damaging as rails from a Railthron with twice the tracking.

Heck, I might even try this out; just for fun.




I'd be interested in the outcome. Please let us know how it goes. /me glances at the Scorpion sitting in his hanger.

Airios
Citadel of dark arts
Posted - 2005.02.28 04:57:00 - [24]
 

Tech 2 launchers aint in game yet, missile spec skills aint in game yet.

Sorja
11th Division
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2005.02.28 05:59:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Selim
Wouldnt that make sniper tempests obsolete? Rails can already outrange 1400s with long range ammo...


Can you compare the damage of 350 rails with 1400 artillery ?

Caldari indeed need a gun ship.
I'm fed up of flying ships that don't land a hit before the target is dead or has warped out.

The scorp is used as an EW platform (incoming changes will tell us if it remains the king of EW or is sent into oblivion) or as a tanker in 10/10 complexes (where a geddon might as well do the job).
When is it last time you heard a fleet commander ordering 'bring a heavy hitter, e.g. a Scorpion' ?

At this time, what do we have as Caldari if not the Eagle (aka wallet cleaner) ?

Latex Mistress
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2005.02.28 07:46:00 - [26]
 

As a soon-to-be-former EW pilot, I like the idea. The scorp has only one role atm, and it'll lose that w/ the EW changes.

Give it some gun bonuses and give the Caldari some flexibility in ships. Cool

NTRabbit
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2005.02.28 09:18:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: NTRabbit on 28/02/2005 09:18:27
Originally by: Sorja
Originally by: Selim
Wouldnt that make sniper tempests obsolete? Rails can already outrange 1400s with long range ammo...


Can you compare the damage of 350 rails with 1400 artillery ?




No, because the 350mm rail should be compared with the 1200mm artillery, and 425mm rail with 1400mm howitzer

PS Also in favour of making the Scorp a light gunboat.

Logan Xerxes
Xerxes Security
Posted - 2005.02.28 11:00:00 - [28]
 

I vote a resounding YES!!!

Chris Henry
Posted - 2005.02.28 14:38:00 - [29]
 

/signed

Great idea.

Gan Ning
Caldari
Posted - 2005.02.28 14:43:00 - [30]
 

No.

The scorpion is too good as it is already, dont give it a chance to do decent damage AND have massive ew capability AND great shield tanking, thats ridiculous.

Right now the scorp and arma are way better than any other tier 1 bs. Bring the Typhoon and Dominix up to a similar standards first before making any changes.


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